Fake H3 national
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Equipment
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: Share your experience and discussions about table tennis equipments.
Moderator: haggisv
Assistant Moderators: position available
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79801
Printed Date: 04/28/2024 at 5:01am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Fake H3 national
Posted By: Hozuki
Subject: Fake H3 national
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 12:08pm
|
Since there are so many fakes of H3 national, I am wondering what actually differentiates them from the 'originals' or from the ordinary commercials. So why not buy some cheap fakes and find out? Take a look at http://www.dhgate.com/product/dhs-national-hurricane-3-rubber-table-tennis/374253094.html#ENhp-en" rel="nofollow - these , for example. If I took a wild guess, then I would say it's genuine H3 topsheet with fake sponge. But just why do these even exist? It doesn't make much sense to me. The price is the same as or even cheaper than commercial... just who operates at such low profit margins? Has anybody had experience with these knockoffs and can compare them to other versions? |
Replies:
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 12:13pm
|
Doctor....heal thyself!!! FdT
|
Posted By: 100niTenis
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 12:50pm
| Serial Numbers on the sponge ! |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 5:14pm
|
Thank you both for your comments devoid of any coherence and meaning. In other words, thanks for wasting your time, mine and that of many others as well. |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 5:43pm
|
that wasn't clear enough? should I get my crayons to explain it to you? Are you 2 years old? simply put, why don't YOU spend the money on the fake ones and try them out?!? Tell us how it goes. FdT
|
Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 6:13pm
| I don't understand the h3 national hype. What's so special about it? They cost way more than the commercial one if I'm not mistaking. Do people think that the pros play with the national version? If so that would be pretty stupid. Might as well buy tenergy for the price |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 7:06pm
|
You got it wrong, that's not what I mean! I provided a link to a cheap 10$ national H3. It is most likely some cheap sponge, but if it can only outperform a regular, commercial H3 then it might be a very economical option for some ppl! |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 7:12pm
So you consider it mature if you tell somebody 'go and figure your shit out yourself' in a cryptical way? I was asking if somebody has had experience with those sponges, how is that inappropriate? That's like telling somebody asking how does rubber x perform, 'go buy it then you will see'. You are completely missing the point why these forums exist in the first place. Well if I am 2 years old, then you are waaaay into the negative. |
Fulanodetal wrote:Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 8:17pm
|
"So why not buy some cheap fakes and find out?" YOUR WORDS. Why don't you go and get the rubber yourself and try them out? You said it yourself..."Why Not?".... FdT
|
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 8:19pm
|
I do kinda wish someone who did use them, would post a response. But my hunch is, the fake ones are really crappy. I certainly will not gonna waste money on those fake rubbers. FdT
|
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 12:19am
just to ruin their name, it is totaly a fake product, it is better to use cheap 729 rubber or similar than buy a fake and support the fake industry ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 5:00am
|
Make it expensive, it becomes real genuine one! Oh pardon me, I have bought from many websites and friends, but I haven't seen any "real" H3 National. The best one I have got was the one closest to the cheap "market" original one! ------------- There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market. Falco is not a booster |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 6:08am
|
I would not buy the fake because (1) I would not want to support the fake rubber industry and (2) they're going to have zero quality control, so it will be like a lottery to see if it's a good or bad sheet, and no guarantee that the next one will be anything like it. They can make them so cheap, because they don't need to worry about quality or performance, it just needs to look like a real one. ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 9:17am
|
I have bought one and it plays and boosts very well, spin is on par with H2N, quality is very good. Also you can see from the customer reviews on that site that there are no negative opinions and from transaction history you can see that people have reordered it, mostly buying several sheets. If you think it's bad just because it's fake, you need to expand your horizon. Since I don't like H3 that much in general I don't have any neo or commercial sheet to draw a comparison to and thus wanted to ask if anybody could. |
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 10:09am
| What about the speed and max power? The upside for the boosted H3 is that, despite it being controllable in short game, you can actually increase the power in your shot up to the limit when it is YOU who fails to add even more, not the rubber (at least for mere mortals). |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 11:41am
|
" Also you can see from the customer reviews on that site that there are no negative opinions and from transaction history you can see that people have reordered it, mostly buying several sheets." And those "customer" reviews are genuine, rrriiiiiiight........so are pink unicorns!!!! FdT |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 1:07pm
Well since this seems to complex for you to understand, I'm going to try and explain it to you in very simple words: In case there was a dissatisfied customer, he would be likely to leave negative feedback. Looking at the large number of reviews encompassing no negative reviews at all, it is very unlikely that there has been any disappointed customer. So even if there were fake reviews, they would not make an impact on the number of negative reviews. In case you want to claim that negative reviews might have been removed, I am afraid I have to tell you that this is also extremely unlikely. DHgate is just another platform like amazon. They do not remove negative reviews. If that were true, there would be no negative reviews of rubbers on their website. But guess what, negative reviews do exist, even for other products from the same seller. Thus what you claimed was not only baseless, but also irrelevant. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 2:34pm
Let's clear things up here. Has it ever crossed your mind that they get them for free? Depending on the player status, each of them gets supplied a set amount of rubbers each month. The higher up you are, the more you receive. National H3 is supplied to the national team members. Provincial H3 is supplied to the provincial team members. The National Hurricane 3 used by the CNT is made at the DHS Research Institute. The ones in the white package are catered to the enthusiasts and EJs and is said to be made at the Institute also. The rest you see in the market are made by some licensed OEMs. It's said there're 3 places where they are made. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 4:18pm
|
Hozuki, if you want to put your money where your mouth is go ahead, send me a sheet of those cheap rubbers and let me try for myself. But it's a different ball game when you want ME to buy those rubbers. Commerce is about trust. And I find it hard to trust a company that makes COUNTERFEIT products. Since they are COUNTERFEIT I feel the company who makes them are not trust worthy, and that also includes the PPL who sell them!!!! I don't trust those sellers and I don't trust YOU Hozuki!!!!! You need to EARN that trust, and by insulting me with your pedantic response Im even less likely to buy something from you. I also hope others can see how pedantic you are and never buy anything from you. Not only it's easy to make counterfeit products it is also easy to make fake REVIEWS. FdT
|
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 4:26pm
|
"The National Hurricane 3 used by the CNT is made at the DHS Research Institute. The ones in the white package are catered to the enthusiasts and EJs and is said to be made at the Institute also. The rest you see in the market are made by some licensed OEMs. It's said there're 3 places where they are made." This is good info. There's so much being said about these rubbers it is hard to know which source to trust. All I know is that if I glue a sheet of these rubbers I know more or less what kind of performance to expect. So far my experience with these H3 BS rubbers has been consistently good. If the seller had sent me a fake one I would IMMEDIATELY stop buying from them. FdT.
|
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 5:13pm
You seem to confuse quite a lot here. I have never insulted you (I merely stated facts) nor have I told you to buy anything and especially not from me. In my OP I merely asked a rhetorical question, implying it might make sense for some ppl to buy those sheets. However, you somehow assumed I was talking specifically to you, and thus you were triggered since you seem to like legit H3 BS and you don't want to be ripped off. That's absolutely understandable. I was much rather catering to regular H3 commercial users that might find this an interesting alternative. Anyways, you don't want to support counterfeit companies but want me to support them by buying a sheet for you? Also you seem to use actual H3 BS yourself but don't want to pay a mere fraction of its cost on trying the cheap one yourself? I'm afraid you are not making any sense here... Also, your last sentence, 'Not only it's easy to make counterfeit products it is also easy to make fake REVIEWS.' shows that you clearly haven't even bothered to read my previous post at all. Or maybe it was too difficult for you to comprehend after all? But I agree, it's great that others can make their own judgement on what kind of people you and me are. I would like to return to actual fruitful discussion. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 5:31pm
DHS has stopped selling standalone H3 topsheets long before the introduction of the Neo version. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 5:51pm
Yes, I am aware of that. I suspect there still might be a chance these sellers remove the sponge of commercial H3 and replace them with their own sponges, at some markup. I believe this because it plays very much like I expect from a H3, but I have to say I lack an object of reference since I have not purchased any other version of H3 for a long time. |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 07/29/2017 at 6:38pm
|
I make fake ones, by ripping the sponge off , using my red stamp and gluing some corners on ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 12:23am
|
Hozuki, : your original post was NOT the offending one. this one was >>> "Thank you both for your comments devoid of any coherence and meaning. In other words, thanks for wasting your time, mine and that of many others as well." so who is the confused one?!? In your first post you started by asking "why not buy the cheap fake ones and see how they play"....all I did was tell you maybe you should try them out. Take your own medicine. You go ahead and try the fake ones. in your own words "WHY NOT?"...I know why not, and you do too. FdT
|
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 11:34am
|
As mentioned before, I wanted to see if anybody has had experience with it and can compare it to the originals. Since you don't fall into that target group, you don't have anything to contribute to this discussion and therefore your comments are pointless. You took offense at the fact that I pointed out your comment was irrelevant. Thus all readers are more likely to be offended by your post. Also, as I said, I tried them and they play very well, so I can recommend them. But obviously you didn't read that as well. At this point, further discussion with you is pointless, so please move on with your life. |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 2:34pm
|
"Also, as I said, I tried them and they play very well, so I can recommend them." your first post was such a garbled mess, since your english is terrible. How come you did not mention you had in fact tried one IN YOUR FIRST POST?!? so stupid!! You should have started with the fact that you did try one in the first place rather than making a rhetorical question!!! You are the one wasting everyone's time. Anyway, I won't be buying the COUNTERFIT sheet, regardless of your recommendation since you're such a pedantic person. FdT
|
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 2:42pm
|
Hozuki, since you haven't had experience with genuine H3 recently, let me rephrase my question: when boosted, does this fake National of yours lack power on hard shots? I'm one of those who might be interested in trying it out if it doesn't. To clarify my position - I don't have any ethical issues with using copies of some products as long as they are not being sold as originals. In this specific case, the price is a clear giveaway, so the name "H3 National" actually states what set of characteristics the manufacturer tried to achieve rather than an effort to mimic the rubber as a genuine H3 Nat. No one here would actually think it was legit being priced $10, right?
|
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 3:18pm
|
"To clarify my position - I don't have any ethical issues with using copies of some products as long as they are not being sold as originals." My question would be if this product is so good, why go through the charade of making it a counterfeit product? why sell it trying to defraud PPL looking for real H3 BS sheets? If its a good product then it would naturally find a market as an original design and brand. Especially at that price!! If you have no problems with this fraudulent product then fine. Congratulations. But some of us do have problems with counterfeit products.  FdT
|
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 3:33pm
 Meanwhile, this https://tieba.baidu.com/p/4899715470" rel="nofollow - tragedy befell on someone somewhere else on Earth:     That was the poor dude's 1st purchase on Taobao riding on the huge wave of table tennis hit after the Rio Olympics. He got the setup as a combo. Later on he said a friend of his who didn't know better bought a Butterfly knockoff for the price of a genuine one. He started that thread to raise people's awareness as well as to quell snarky comments from all the nice smartasses, and last but not least, as a reminder to people that:  ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/30/2017 at 4:11pm
|
Sorry Al, I completely overlooked your inital post. I have a 39 degree version and put it on an OC, and I don't think I could bottom it out at all. It definetly doesn't lack power. But power-wise it was very similar to H2N. But you can also order it in 40 or 41 degree. Quality-wise it is better than the average H2 commercial. |
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 4:00am
Why even bother with selling these? Probably, it just looks COOL for a huge bunch of recreational players (esp. in China, I guess) to have a blue sponge under a H3 topsheet just like the TT gods do, regardless of actual playing characteristics. So there is a niche for the product we discuss. What I do not agree here is the assumption that the seller actually tries to defraud his buyers. Imagine you're a contractor using professional tools that cost $200-500. If there was an online Chinese (!) shop selling it for $20, there was no way you would think the product is genuine. Still, if its name was the same with some tool you knew well and had used before, you would know which characteristics the manufacturer promises you will get. What the seller should have done is give the disclaimer saying that the rubber is not original but its copy - and, in fact, most of these one-day-shops do. Saying that, I would be close to accusing him of fraud if we were speaking about orange sponge commercial H3 that is rather close in the price range, but not the item in OP.
|
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 4:30am
Also, it is peculiar how a person could call a group of people smartasses for mocking another guy in the same post that starts with an offensive picture and ends with indirectly calling his opponent ignorant. As you posted yourself,
|
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 4:39am
|
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 6:58am
|
"What I do not agree here is the assumption that the seller actually tries to defraud his buyers. Imagine you're a contractor using professional tools that cost $200-500. If there was an online Chinese (!) shop selling it for $20, there was no way you would think the product is genuine. Still, if its name was the same with some tool you knew well and had used before, you would know which characteristics the manufacturer promises you will get." I see your point but the problem is, they come in a package made to look like an original H3 BS, and not just that one, they also sell fake Tenergys, etc. I have seen the fake packaging in person, it's obviously a cheap color print, but online it is hard to tell the quality of the printing on the package. You put the onus on the consumer to figure that at a certain prize he should conclude it is a fake. BUT the root of the problem is that they are selling the COUNTERFEIT items in the first place. That is dishonest by definition!!! Again, if the rubber had such great playing characteristics, then it would find a market on its own. FdT
|
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 11:51am
|
I have looked a little into the shop mentioned in OP. The 2nd best seller there is Bluefire M1 copy that also has excellent reviews, and it does not make any sense at all - while I can imagine smb providing a decent H3 alternative, it is clear that reproducing ESN rubbers performance is too much to ask from a fake, so the positive reviews might very well be worthless in the 1st place (see what I said about people who do not care about performance). When I read these reviews, it looked like FdT was right about A LOT of them being fake - the same or similar comments to different rubbers made repeatedly from the same accounts etc. I think a possible explanation for lack of negative reviews may be that very few of these fake rubbers are actually being sold. Also, I did not find a word stating it was a copy in the description of any product in the shop. So it seems that the seller is applying some clearly foul business practices besides the controversial one of selling copies. |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 12:12pm
|
Sure that might very well be the case. What counts then are the negative reviews. For example, that seller also sells fake Rakza 7 soft, which has only 3 Reviews, and 2 of them very negative. And since the Bluefire and H3 fakes don't really have those, they might actually be decent rubbers. If I was mad that the rubber I got was rubbish, I probably would have written an appropriate review. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 2:45pm
 This thread has made me come to the realization what Frank Schreiner said about European players was true - that they're very eager to try out new equipment, knockoffs included.  ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 4:56pm
|
We are on the equipment section of a table tennis forum... this might come as a surprise to you... but people here are likely to try new equipment! However, do you not think that this is a little bit too much of a biased sample to draw conclusions about the entire european playerbase from? Also, I'd prefer it if you were not to throw around your unnecessary and mind-numbing memes. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 6:21pm
Gomenasai  ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 6:45pm
|
Crazy people everywhere... Well, at least it doesn't get boring. |
Posted By: jk92
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 11:45pm
|
I have received a similar fake before in place of what was supposed to be sheets of Hurricane 3-50 and Skyline 3-60 Every time i see the pip structure in some of those photos it pisses me off at how I was ripped off. The printing on the rubber topsheet is really quite good. Very close to the real thing. The packaging was very very good and only lacked a little bit of the reflective hologramming. The rubber had no verification sticker on it. In terms of performance, it played super dead, lifeless chinese rubber with good sticky surface. I still have a sheet, but have attached to a super hard carbon blade (not the best match for it), maybe it has some life on another blade ------------- Timo Boll CAF Penhold Donic Bluegrip R1 Andro Hexer Grip SFX |
Posted By: jk92
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 11:46pm
------------- Timo Boll CAF Penhold Donic Bluegrip R1 Andro Hexer Grip SFX |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 08/02/2017 at 10:05am
" jk92 wrote:I have received a similar fake before in place of what was supposed to be sheets of Hurricane 3-50 and Skyline 3-60" Could you please inform us where did you buy these counterfeit rubbers from? Sorry you got ripped off!!! FdT
|
Posted By: jk92
Date Posted: 08/03/2017 at 10:48am
I got it from ebay, the dealer that sells XVT stuff. The photo didn't have a verification sticker on the rubber and the packaging looked pretty fake from the photo, I guess I should have known ------------- Timo Boll CAF Penhold Donic Bluegrip R1 Andro Hexer Grip SFX |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 08/04/2017 at 10:40am
|
"What the seller should have done is give the disclaimer saying that the rubber is not original but its copy - and, in fact, most of these one-day-shops do. Saying that, I would be close to accusing him of fraud if we were speaking about orange sponge commercial H3 that is rather close in the price range, but not the item in OP." al_111: I have never seen a seller clearly indicate that the rubbers in question are "copies" or "counterfeit". If they did, then I would agree with you 100% they are not trying to defraud PPL, but simply selling a product that is significantly inexpensive. Same with online vendors who sell these rubbers. I have NEVER seen one that indicates whether these rubbers are copies. As you can see from jk82's post, a clear indication that the rubbers were copies would have precluded jk82 from buying the items. "jk92 wrote: I have received a similar fake before in place of what was supposed to be sheets of Hurricane 3-50 and Skyline 3-60"" So tell me that's not fraudulent!! If they indicated the nature of the fake rubbers I would have no problem with the sellers. They just have to inform the potential customers. FdT
|
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 08/05/2017 at 1:25am
|
@FdT I can't find one either, although I'm sure I've seen A LOT of these on AliExpress a couple of years ago, all those "Tenergies", "H3 Nationals" etc. priced $10. Haven't been looking into this kind of deals since, but all of them had a disclaimer I was speaking about. Now I actually don't see these fakes being sold at all, so after all probably it was just AliExpress policy being stricter than DHGate's then and having become even more so now, not the sellers being conscious.
|
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 09/06/2017 at 1:47pm
|
I think I need to update this, playing with this rubber for a couple of weeks on a PG-12 and it's an extremely good combo. I like this rubber best from all dhs rubbers, even though it's likely not even a dhs rubber, lol. The hard topsheet just grabs the plastic ball and loads it up with spin, even when wet. Sadly I still cannot accurately compare to other H3 variants since I did not buy any sheets for maybe ten years... I ordered a couple more, best price performance ratio ever. |
Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 09/07/2017 at 9:29am
|
I am wondering about comparison between Airoc M and these so so much wanted rubbers H3 ... |
Posted By: Hautamaeki
Date Posted: 11/19/2017 at 6:21am
|
I´ve bought 2 of these 39º H3 blue sponge rubber, 2 years ago, both were good quality and performed very good, then I tried to boost them, with good results. Bottom line, for 9/10 euros, there is only one rubber with the same feeling and performance for the Fh, and I use it now, I have been using it for 2 years, it's the Palio Hadou 40+ with 42-44º, same feeling, same sponge, same tackiness, same speed, same boosting. i'll be using it since...well, it's the same price too, maybe they are the same.
|
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 11/19/2017 at 1:19pm
|
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 11/19/2017 at 2:25pm
|
The sponge is firmer than 42-44 deg. It feels around 48 at least. I have ordered various hardnesses, but it didn't feel like one was significantly different in hardness from the others. However, variance in weigth was insane. There can be up to 15 grams difference uncut. Btw, I just made first place in local championships with this rubber on my FH. I went 7 - 0. Level wasn't high though. Just up to around 1500-1600 USATT. I prefer it unboosted. Spin comes mainly from topsheet, not from sponge, so boosting mainly adjusts the speed. Needs a fairly hard, fast, and medium flexy blade. But you really need a lot of physical effort and good technique to make use of it. |