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Estimation of USATT Ranking

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Topic: Estimation of USATT Ranking
Posted By: infernowasif34
Subject: Estimation of USATT Ranking
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 2:36am

https://youtu.be/yP3LlxapNxI
Hey guys,
So I'm a long pips player (black tshirt) who is aspiring to have a style like Ruwen Filus. This is a match from a recent Inter-School Tournament which I ended up winning somehow. My opponent had a deadly forehand loop but didn't really attack with his backhand, so I ended up beating him with smashes and slow loops without much use of the pips. Would appreciate if someone could give an estimation of my USATT ranking and also point out any fundamental flaws (if any). I will work on power looping on my forehand, especially after slow looping once as it's very easy to counterloop on slow loops. I believe this match is an accurate representation of my ability in everything except counterlooping and chopping (I did them in the semi final but forgot to record it). Thanks in advance!

P.S Red rubber is Tsp p1r 1mm and black rubber is Tenergy 05.



Replies:
Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 2:55am
1800 - 1900 assuming you are the guy in the blue shirt!

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Posted By: Simon_plays
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 5:02am
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

1800 - 1900 assuming you are the guy in the blue shirt!
Shocked

I didn't watch too much of the video (and I don't really understand USATT ratings since it seems to be impossible to even get an estimation of how they translate to ratings central) but surely your estimation must be just a bit generous here?


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 7:02am
Rocketman,

Where you play at, neither player would get or hold a 1700 rating if they did 3 tourneys. Both are around same basic level. They MIGHT make an 1800 rating in a weaker zone of USA, but debatable.

Light blue shirt player - serve and receive is very weak. Serves are sloppy, high, not varied, predictable long, easy to attack, do NOT assist with an attacking strategy. Receive is also sloppy, easy to open against, almost like player is inviting opponent to attack and hope they miss.

Dark blue shirt (Adidas) - very weak serve and receive.  Serve not too varied, because amount of spin is not much. Same block and hope tactics on receive, but what the heck, they work sometimes at this level. Fallback on rallying if needed. Overall a little better plan, but not by much. Serves - look at vid, nearly every time, dark blue shirt player dips hand with ball BELOW the table after presenting the ball. Any certified umpire would call a fault. Clear cut easy to spot. Also easy to fix.

Both players seem to give easy balls to opponent to attack and get into a flashy rally or power or high spin rally. Maybe both players are strong there. Neither player seems to be able to open vs heavier underspin much, only light.

I would win vs either of these players 11-5 (and I am in the same rating band rocket estimated and live in the same zone as rocket) just by keeping serve return low with some spin and keep serves short, low and spinny first, then vary it. I would push long and deep often to invite them to attack and miss, neither player shows much patience. If they wisen up and do not take the bait on long pushes, I would push one dead suddenly and attack next ball. I would open with real heavy topspin, neither player is generating a lot of toppsin.

At this level, many points are won ugly from mistakes, so the flashy stuff may not be an indicator like at another level, and even then that tells only a part of the story. The better tourney players playing this style know how these points are won and play the percentages.


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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 7:09am
BTW, in my area, there is a player from your country here, he just put LP on his BH, his level is around 1750 USATT +/- 50. His serves are a lot more varied and he can make it short when he wants. His landing percentage on attacks better, spin heavier. Stays close to table, punishes mistakes. Just his serve and attack, or his return and if opponent pushes, then he attacks... just that part alone got him most of his level.

The one of whom I speak would win vs either player in the vid 3-1 on average.


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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 7:21am
Common now. Isn’t the loose grip the Adidas guy holding worth a couple grands already?


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 11:39am
I could only watch the 1st game.  Rarely was a point earned.  1500 maybe. 


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

I could only watch the 1st game.  Rarely was a point earned.  1500 maybe. 
================
That's what I feel - about 1500.  Don't think they worth 1800-1900.


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skip3119


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 4:17pm
I would guess 1100 but my rating at guessing USATT ratings is only 702.


Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 6:48pm
I think they both move pretty well around the table and try to loop safely, also they did win a lot of points with first attack.

The guy in the light blue shirt has a good loop and he did try counter looping with the right action, so I still think they are around 1800.


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Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I think they both move pretty well around the table and try to loop safely, also they did win a lot of points with first attack.

The guy in the light blue shirt has a good loop and he did try counter looping with the right action, so I still think they are around 1800.


I watched the 1st game again and counted the unforced errors.  Out of the 18 points 12 were lost due to unforced errors.  Six points were earned (I'm being real generous with points won)

If they're at the ICC club, they're well under 1500.

Rocketman, you live in the bay area.  Have you played in any sanctioned tournaments lately, if so what is your rating?  My rating is down to 1636 and I can't imagine losing to either player.


Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 9:20pm
Since you mentioned you had long pips on the backhand, and the only non-shiny backhand was the guy in black so I assume that's you.  There's really not much to go on.  If I had to guess, I would say between 1200 and 1300.


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I think they both move pretty well around the table and try to loop safely, also they did win a lot of points with first attack.

The guy in the light blue shirt has a good loop and he did try counter looping with the right action, so I still think they are around 1800.


I watched the 1st game again and counted the unforced errors.  Out of the 18 points 12 were lost due to unforced errors.  Six points were earned (I'm being real generous with points won)

If they're at the ICC club, they're well under 1500.

Rocketman, you live in the bay area.  Have you played in any sanctioned tournaments lately, if so what is your rating?  My rating is down to 1636 and I can't imagine losing to either player.

At the ICC club they are less than 200.


Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I think they both move pretty well around the table and try to loop safely, also they did win a lot of points with first attack.

The guy in the light blue shirt has a good loop and he did try counter looping with the right action, so I still think they are around 1800.


I watched the 1st game again and counted the unforced errors.  Out of the 18 points 12 were lost due to unforced errors.  Six points were earned (I'm being real generous with points won)

If they're at the ICC club, they're well under 1500.

Rocketman, you live in the bay area.  Have you played in any sanctioned tournaments lately, if so what is your rating?  My rating is down to 1636 and I can't imagine losing to either player.

Mike, I haven't played a tournament in more than a year+, however I think these guys are playing pips, which at 1800 level doesn't look as impressive, and hence they look much lower, even if they are not 1800 CA, they are easily 1600.




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Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I think they both move pretty well around the table and try to loop safely, also they did win a lot of points with first attack.

The guy in the light blue shirt has a good loop and he did try counter looping with the right action, so I still think they are around 1800.


I watched the 1st game again and counted the unforced errors.  Out of the 18 points 12 were lost due to unforced errors.  Six points were earned (I'm being real generous with points won)

If they're at the ICC club, they're well under 1500.

Rocketman, you live in the bay area.  Have you played in any sanctioned tournaments lately, if so what is your rating?  My rating is down to 1636 and I can't imagine losing to either player.

At the ICC club they are less than 200.

-200 for not wearing butterfly gear at ICC


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Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 12:36am
They look a lot better towards the end of the video.

I'd say 1000 would be about right for the cameraman's video taking abilities...

As for the players, I don't know. I was going to guess about 1200 based on the first minute or so of the video, but by the end black shirt was looking much better. So maybe I'd give him up to 1500, and maybe 1400 for the other guy, but I only skipped through the video.

I think I could beat them, but I also don't have a rating, so I guess that doesn't mean much.

P.S. I also don't know what I'm talking about :(


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 12:56am
I guess 1500-1700, depending on where they live and they style of their opponents at the most recent tournaments. It's really hard to tell because of the pips. The other guy might be really good against another type of player, but who knows? 


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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level: 1800-1900.


Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 12:59am
so its official
I've looked at all the estimates above and you are a ..........
1000,1100,1200,1300,1400,u1500,1500,1600,u1700,1700,1800-1900 rated person

not too bad at all


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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 1:10am

Based on all the evidence presented, it appears that a proper rating evaluation cannot be made without a reasonable doubt.

The Plastic Man

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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 2:21am
Haha smackman. If you've seen my rating estimates thread too, you'd know that most of these threads can only really be done for fun. Too many factors that can't be determined, especially from just a single game.

The pips definitely make it more of a challenge.

I actually really enjoy these threads. I'm hoping to post another one soon. Hopefully it'll get as much as a discussion going as this one :)


Posted By: heavyspin
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 2:25pm
1400

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An EJ to a table tennis player is an equipment junkie. An ej to a mathematician is a standard basis vector.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 3:02pm
around 1500 to 1600.. Way too many unforced errors to be any better than that..

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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/14/2017 at 8:58pm
Haha thanks guys! This is the thing ig. Too many unforced errors while sparks of some high level play here and there. Thiis just shows while we did some training, we still havent developed game maturity and consistency. I'm the black tshirt guy btw. My opponemt plays really well against orthodox two winged loopers and ig the pips three him off. Will try to give another video, but I don't have many similar level players near me so it might take a couple of months.


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/14/2017 at 10:39pm
Again, not many earned points or long rallies.  1700+ LP players should have some nice rallies with lots of placement shots.  It's hard to rate players by looking at a video because when someone misses an easy shot we say "I would have killed that shot"  when like them we also miss easy shots.

I watched the 2nd game and counted hits, not counting the serve as a hit.  I think the final score was 13-11, if not I may have missed something. 

There were 6 missed return of serves which is okay if there were deceptive serves.  Since from the video it's hard to read tricky serves. 

There were 6 one hit rallies and 4 two hit rallies.  3 three hitters, 2 four hitters one 5 and 6 hit rallies.

As I said, it's almost impossible to get close on a guess, that's why you see such a wide variety of numbers. 




Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 4:03am
Hey guys,
https://youtu.be/nOWeonlhH5A
Do have another go. This is much closer to my real style and level.


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 8:56am
Looks like 1500 to me. I s

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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 9:29am
Did you see the recent video? Any constructive criticism and/or praise?


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 11:28am
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

Hey guys,
https://youtu.be/nOWeonlhH5A" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/nOWeonlhH5A
Do have another go. This is much closer to my real style and level.
===============
This is your second video.
My estimate of your level in this video is about 1400.
The little girl, who beat you 4-0,  worth about 1600.


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skip3119


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 12:02pm
Thanks for the reply. Any constructive criticism?


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 12:04pm
I think the girl was pretty good.  She missed shots, but also had some nice forehand and backhand strokes.

Still too many long serves.


Posted By: Dream1700
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 12:52pm
The girl will be 2200 in a few years.

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Force Pro Special 7ply
FH: Fastarc C-1 1.4
BH: Tenergy 80 1.7


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. Any constructive criticism?
I'm going to skip the part about guessing ratings, which is a fun game but won't help you.

First problem is that you need how to chop properly.  You do a very short stroke and most "real" chopping involves a much longer stroke.  Look at some videos and see if you can find a consistent looper to practice with.  Or use a robot.  You really need to train that chopping technique for hours and hours.

Aborted chops (short swings) don't do much and force you to play an 'in between game": not quite a true defender, not attacking either.

Second problem is footwork.  Footwork is critical to chopping n order to get in place properly.  You need to have the footwork to be move, then be balanced for your stroke so that you can move again.  It's each to cheat on footwork (up to 1700 level) if you're just hitting topspin near the table.  But if you're chopping from off the table, footwork means everything.

It's hard to worry about anything else while you have those two issues.  It will take time to improve both stroke and footwork, so be patient with yourself.  I would worry less about playing games right now and more about just putting in the hours at strokes and footwork.

Good luck and Merry Christmas!


Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 2:35pm
+1 on footwork. You get off balance after every shot, and that isn't good.


Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 9:12pm
Still think around 1650-1750

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Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Still think around 1650-1750
For the OP/chopper? Not from that video, not even close.

I'll be the first to admit that videos make us look much worse, so I don't know that I could really guess his level from these videos.  But we have a low-level chopper in our club whose footwork and strokes are much superior to OP and our guy's rating is around 1500.


Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 12/25/2017 at 9:53pm
Being rated a little over 1200 at that time (good East Coast Club), I got a chance to play a 1900 colleague in a practice match. Dave is a real 1900, and probably should be much more, quite a tall guy, moves well, has a great feel for the ball, just maybe becomes a little impatient if a good player sends him a lot of underspin balls. His service is easy, a type that never likes to win with just the serve. Who am I to judge... Anyways, a few years ago I got to play him, on a good day of mine. I played with TBS with T80 both sides at that time (cannot do this any more due to joint issues). I lost 1:3, with a couple my lost games very close (like 12:14). There were moments that the spectators actually loudly applauded my play. Might be my best match ever. The funny part is this: a new guy came to the club that night, he saw the match; later I invited him to play and he refused saying that he is not my level, no irony there. A couple weeks later I found out he is 1400. 

This long and boring story is given here to illustrate that at lower levels it is possible to play a fairly good match (darn, I never record...) that is a far distant from your usual level. If you record that, and then publish, well...Wink you may not get the type of criticism you actually need.


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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 3:58am
That little girl is going to be a strong force within a few years!

I remember when one of my students was first learning to cut, she was doing this exercise to help with going close and away from the table.

Simply put, it was just her being in the ready position, taking a step back, chopping a ball fed to her by another student, then stepping in back to the ready position. She repeated that over and over, quicker and quicker.

What I liked about how they did it was that she had her towel on the table in the middle on the back edge. Whenever she went back into the ready position, she physically touched her racket head on the towel.

I would recommend that if you can get someone to feed you balls or consistently loop balls to you. If they're looping balls, you can ask them to push one then loop, push then loop. That way you can practicing getting back into the table and stepping out. My student loves that exercise and it's one she does every day.


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 11:15am
Thanks for the reply guys. The problem with my chopping stroke came from the fact that I practised a lot of FAST multiball with my coach which is why I couldn't really use a long stroke as it would mean the next ball would fly by. I have been practising with a coach for 4 years now, although it has been for two days a week without much dedication from my side. But recently I have been getting more serious and will start to practise for 4 days a week. My coach is the National Champion of Bangladesh but due to the fact that he is so young (around 22) he doesn't know much about playing with LPs (playing against is a different story). It is the same with 99% players and coaches of our country. Every one of them sees LPs as something to compensate for a weak backhand with. My previous coach told me I had a good knack for hitting balls back with LPs which is why I switched, and it was so fun that I never looked back. But alas, the problem of how to play with LPs still remained. So I turned to youtube and forums to know about how to play with LPs. My coaches just gave me an LP and helped me practise but I never knew much about in game strategies. Sorry for the long post.

BOTTOM LINE: I have a coach who doesn't know much about playing with LPs, but he can help me with any kind of practice I want. Thank you for suggesting the problem with my footwork. I am already working on my chopping stroke with much slower multiball. But it will take a bit more time to see results of it in the game as it is a habit I built for over two years. Please suggest drills to cover footwork of backhand chop to forehand counterloop transitioning! Secondly, to the guy who said this might be just a good day I had, I can show you more videos over the next couple of months where I play a similar level, but that's not the main problem here is it?

P.S rocketman thanks for rating me so highly against all the odds xD


Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 12:03pm
I would make the switch to inverted on the BH. There will be growing pains but it will give you best chance for growth due to your coaching situation. If you want to stick with LP spend a lot of time on the OOAK forum . With such a short bh stroke maybe you would be better off with a pushblock type style .

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OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 12:09pm
I'm definitely not giving up. Especially not after resolving to get a good amount of practice every week. Nah I'm not going to play a pushblock style, the ultimate style I aspire to get is the Gionis/Filus style. Thanks for your suggestion though!


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 12:14pm
P.S I played inverted BH for two years before switching to LP for two years. My backhand loop and block is still a bit consistent although not as much. But Table Tennis has been way more fun after I switched to LP.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

P.S I played inverted BH for two years before switching to LP for two years. My backhand loop and block is still a bit consistent although not as much. But Table Tennis has been way more fun after I switched to LP.


Definitely if it fits your personality.   And my guess is that you beat certain players more. Don't underestimate the issues with not having a coach. But I wouldn't underestimate the fun either unless it is tied to winning as winning stops as soon as most opponents adjust to the changes in ball reads they have to make. But if you can find someone to mentor or coach you that helps a lot.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

Thanks for the reply guys. The problem with my chopping stroke came from the fact that I practised a lot of FAST multiball with my coach which is why I couldn't really use a long stroke as it would mean the next ball would fly by. I have been practising with a coach for 4 years now, although it has been for two days a week without much dedication from my side. But recently I have been getting more serious and will start to practise for 4 days a week. My coach is the National Champion of Bangladesh but due to the fact that he is so young (around 22) he doesn't know much about playing with LPs (playing against is a different story). It is the same with 99% players and coaches of our country. Every one of them sees LPs as something to compensate for a weak backhand with. My previous coach told me I had a good knack for hitting balls back with LPs which is why I switched, and it was so fun that I never looked back. But alas, the problem of how to play with LPs still remained. So I turned to youtube and forums to know about how to play with LPs. My coaches just gave me an LP and helped me practise but I never knew much about in game strategies. Sorry for the long post.

BOTTOM LINE: I have a coach who doesn't know much about playing with LPs, but he can help me with any kind of practice I want. Thank you for suggesting the problem with my footwork. I am already working on my chopping stroke with much slower multiball. But it will take a bit more time to see results of it in the game as it is a habit I built for over two years. Please suggest drills to cover footwork of backhand chop to forehand counterloop transitioning! Secondly, to the guy who said this might be just a good day I had, I can show you more videos over the next couple of months where I play a similar level, but that's not the main problem here is it?

P.S rocketman thanks for rating me so highly against all the odds xD

Have a look at the video below, where ~2200 (or even higher?) chopper (forum member 'leatherback', at least on OOAK) is practicing with ~2800 coach. Not exactly your situation, but I suspect Eugene Wang does not necessarily know  a lot about LP strokes either, but he's VERY good against choppers (find his match against Jian Li, whose videos you probably should also watch). It might give you some idea on how fast 'multiball' should be with your coach, and also what LP strokes should look like (I find watching non-pros more useful in general).  


P.S. Did you use black rubbers on both sides in your second video, against 10-yr old girl? That probably helped you here somewhat (well, you still lost Wink)


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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 1:33pm
I think I'm on my own with game strategies and strokes. But as Ive said, I can get all the practice I want, so I plan on doing just that for sometime and see where I go.No, I don't win more against certain player. As a matter of fact, the second string junior players (whem they play fellow inverted loopers I think they are 1500+ AT LEAST) like me, beat me in practice all the time. My winning percentage was much lower. But, in a recent inter-school tournament I beat thwm and became the champion. The irony is, it had more to do with them getting nervous about playing against long pips and me seeing that as the perfect opportunity to pickhit. I won that tournament as a pickhitter, not as a modern defender. But this definitely won't work against the first string junior players the best among them being 2000+ easily. So yeah basically I'm more or less screwed xD


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 1:39pm
Yeah watched him before and read his entire thread about training in China. Thanks for the suggestions! Yeah I used two black rubbers because I used the Ross Leidy blade for the first time back then. They only had one black Tenergy 05 fx in the shop(which doubles as academy) and I had a black tsp p1r only. BUT no, it didn't help at all. I didn't get a single pop up due to LPs. Even when I twiddled the girl saw through it, and of course that's a very good thing considering I didn't have to worry about winning points and making myself looking better (or her) because of that. Secondly, I don't think this comment about rubbers was necessary (not offended though so chill xD).


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

I think I'm on my own with game strategies and strokes. But as Ive said, I can get all the practice I want, so I plan on doing just that for sometime and see where I go.No, I don't win more against certain player. As a matter of fact, the second string junior players (whem they play fellow inverted loopers I think they are 1500+ AT LEAST) like me, beat me in practice all the time. My winning percentage was much lower. But, in a recent inter-school tournament I beat thwm and became the champion. The irony is, it had more to do with them getting nervous about playing against long pips and me seeing that as the perfect opportunity to pickhit. I won that tournament as a pickhitter, not as a modern defender. But this definitely won't work against the first string junior players the best among them being 2000+ easily. So yeah basically I'm more or less screwed xD

You probably are at disadvantage somewhat, but so are many aspiring modern defenders that don't have good defense specialist coach nearby to show them proper strokes, footwork, tactics etc. You are not screwed, though - it sounds like you have plenty of good players to practice against, and quite a few folks here probably envy you already. Smile

Keep looking for videos on YouTube, especially for drills aimed at defenders (I know I saw some). Video yourself to see how your strokes look in reality, and iterate. This forum and OOAK are pretty good at giving advice - I suggest you make your own blog thread at OOAK (not many 'blogs' here, somehow).


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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

Yeah watched him before and read his entire thread about training in China. Thanks for the suggestions! Yeah I used two black rubbers because I used the Ross Leidy blade for the first time back then. They only had one black Tenergy 05 fx in the shop(which doubles as academy) and I had a black tsp p1r only. BUT no, it didn't help at all. I didn't get a single pop up due to LPs. Even when I twiddled the girl saw through it, and of course that's a very good thing considering I didn't have to worry about winning points and making myself looking better (or her) because of that. Secondly, I don't think this comment about rubbers was necessary (not offended though so chill xD).

Huh? Seeing someone playing with same-color rubbers is HIGHLY unusual these days, I'm actually surprised no one mentioned it before in this thread. And it is providing some advantage in the match, since opponent has no visual cues to go by.  Kind of amused by your reaction, but OK.


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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 2:01pm
Thanks man! Was just planning on opening a blog, need to get a tripod first xD Yeah I do have good players to practise against, almost all of them can loop consistently against my chops if we are talking single ball bh side to bh side only and I'm mostly the one who lets them down after averaging 3 or 4 hits. We don't have any 'clubs' here at all. Mostly people playing in 3 or 4 places in the city with one table. Only our National Stadium has 4 tables. But all these people have been trained more or less by coaches and you will rarely find a player with no orthodox training in these few small places for Table Tennis. It's 80% training 20% games even for players who rarely show up once a week. Needless to say, the player base and amount of tourneys/leagues is also much much less than other countries. Sorry, just a small rant about my country. But of course, you will find many casual players in schools and homes.


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 2:07pm
I guess I was a little ticked off because I assumed you implied I put up a fight because of the same coloured rubber, sorry about that. And yeah the reason was as I mentioned, but she didn't lose any points because of that I think, at least none that I noticed. Although there might have been a psychological disadvantage but unlikely from the way she played.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by infernowasif34 infernowasif34 wrote:

I guess I was a little ticked off because I assumed you implied I put up a fight because of the same coloured rubber, sorry about that. And yeah the reason was as I mentioned, but she didn't lose any points because of that I think, at least none that I noticed. Although there might have been a psychological disadvantage but unlikely from the way she played.


Well you can't be ticked off if you broke the rules in a way that puts the opponent at a disadvantage and your opponent was just too good regardless.   It's like using illegal serves but your opponent was so good that it didn't matter or the serves were not good enough so it made no difference. So if you are ticked off, live with it.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Huh? Seeing someone playing with same-color rubbers is HIGHLY unusual these days, I'm actually surprised no one mentioned it before in this thread. And it is providing some advantage in the match, since opponent has no visual cues to go by.  Kind of amused by your reaction, but OK.
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Oops, I did watch the video, but missed that the guy used same color of rubber (black) on both sides.  Thanks for pointing that out.

Shame on that guy.



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skip3119


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Huh? Seeing someone playing with same-color rubbers is HIGHLY unusual these days, I'm actually surprised no one mentioned it before in this thread. And it is providing some advantage in the match, since opponent has no visual cues to go by.  Kind of amused by your reaction, but OK.
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Oops, I did watch the video, but missed that the guy used same color of rubber (black) on both sides.  Thanks for pointing that out.

Shame on that guy.

Interesting anecdote: a week before the US Open, I played in a warm-up tournament.  There was one match I lost to a penhold player in five games.  Afterwards, two different people came up to me and ask me why I didn't complain.  It seems my opponent had black on both sides and was twidling.  I never noticed it.  I did check the rubber on one side before the match but never checked the other side.  After the match, I asked the tournament director about it, but he didn't want to make a deal out of it, so I let it go.


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 5:53pm
Having the same colour rubbers is a pretty big advantage if your opponent isn't used to it. Maybe she was though. But in the video, I didn't really see you twiddle. Basically, your backhand was all long pips chopping, and your forehand was all attacks. I think that made it easier for her regardless of the same coloured rubbers.

Since you have a coach, I'm confident you'll be able to fit a lot the issues people have mentioned. When I watch my own videos, I always get disappointed when I see myself off balance during shots. I definitely think you should concentrate on staying balanced, especially for backhand to forehand transitions.


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 9:43pm
'Shame on that guy.' Lol what? You are completely missing the point that I glued that rubber from that shop/academy(the girl's coach glued the rubbers and I bought the tenergy from there) and the girl and the coach was fine with me playing with it as I had no other option.

Edit: Sorry I think I didn't mention it before (mixed it up with my ooak post). This is a Table Tennis Shop in Malaysia which doubles as an academy. The girl's coach who was tending to the shop (not the main owner, he is a p1r chopper I heard but sadly didn't get to meet) is a Malaysian National Team Player.


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 9:45pm
Yeah will try and fix it. Do check my blog if I open one in ooak where I'll try and upload videos of sessions with my coach. Thanks!


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 12/26/2017 at 11:48pm
Looking forward to it! I don't browse ooak, so if you do set it up and post some videos, please post a link here too :)


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 12/27/2017 at 12:08am
'Shame on that guy.' Lol what? You are completely missing the point .............
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That's a ridiculous excuse.
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You didn't even say that you used the same colored rubber on both side (and was OKed by your opponent and the umpire) - until somebody caught you red-handed.


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skip3119


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/27/2017 at 12:28am
Yeah mickd sure, will post links. And skip, not sure why you are being so salty and trying to poke me again and again. The issue with the same coloured rubber wasn't even seen as much by any of us,which is why I didn't mention anything, and being caught? LOL. You'd think anyone would see the black rubbers on both sides if I posted clear video, which I did so not sure what made you think I could 'hide' it. In the first place, it was just a casual match I played after putting rubbers on my new blade one of which I bought from the shop. If poking me is all you will do, I won't reply anymore.


Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 12/27/2017 at 1:37am
Had you mentioned it at the very beginning, nobody would even bother to talk about it.

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skip3119


Posted By: infernowasif34
Date Posted: 12/27/2017 at 1:57am
Yeah, my mistake. I will be very careful not to skip out on any details from now on whenever I post something.


Posted By: pacificspice
Date Posted: 02/14/2018 at 9:41am
If playing in Atlanta your usatt rating would be around 1300.


Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 02/16/2018 at 11:37am
Whatever your rating, neither of you look like you are enjoying it ! Smile for goodness sakeSmile

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The Older I get, The better I was.


Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 03/12/2018 at 9:45pm
I onky saw 2nd vid. I think you want contact the ball on its way down and lower. If you take almost 2 steps back you'll have more time. The balls you were chopping were chest high. Therefore the stroke is cut short due to time and the strike zone. I saw a great forehand xoumter near the end of the match.



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