The ones I have not tried are Omega 7 Tour, Omega 7 China, Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 52, Rhyzer R50, etc.

At 42 deg point, ESN is better than Tenergy, IMHO (R42 vs T05FX). At 45-46 deg point, T05 is better than alternatives (Omega V Europe, etc). But the best quality competition is at the >50 sponge hardness level.

Good to know that Butterfly has some competition.

Would love to hear from others who use rubbers of similar hardness.

 Also, topsheet only loops aren't as spinny t05H, or h3 ofcourse. I still find the aurus, rakza, hexer, genius gen rubbers best for people with topsheet heavy loops. 

Target Pro GT X51 is still one of my favorite. Not super fast but very spinny and durable. Lightly boosted have a better speed/spin ratio compared to T05 also with better stability on short game, less bouncy.

Rakza X is very close to Pro GT X51, just a little bit softer (50º x 51º). Great rubber as well. 

Now I use Rhyzer Pro 50 both sides, lightly boosted (1 layer of TRF). Same spin compared to X51 but a tad faster.. Great rubber overall.

I tried T05H from my students, great spin and control without booster. Harder compared to ESN 50, so it is slower on slow and mid gears. But I was not impressed compared to Nexxus Hard 53, for exemple. 

Dignigs 05 I have never tried but talking with some pro players I know, it's not a game changer from BTY. Just between the hardness of Tenergy05 and Tenergy 05 Hard. It could have been called Tenergy 05 Mid Hard as well 

But overall T05H is not a lot better compared to Nexxus 53. I feel that ESN is very close in performance and the price we can buy these rubbers is very atractive. I found T05H a little bit faster at mid range compared to NXX53.

In my opinion, 53 ESN rubbers or T05H are for 2 type of players:

- High level players and profissionals that need a very hard and fast rubbers that suports their powerfull strokes and some layers of booster
- Amateurs that prefer very hard rubbers that can be better controled close to the table compared to more lively ESN rubbers around 48-50º or Tenergy original series.

Just because these hard rubbers can be very powerfull in right hands or very controled on lower skilled hands. Take Hurricane as an exemple.

Also, the nexxus El pro 50 and 53( the hard series basically) have a different topsheet composition than the regular nexxus. Its more of an opaque colour like the new gen stuff from other brands as opposed to the translucent colour of the nex 38, 43 and 48. They still have the same pip structure, however the new new opaque topsheet feels a bit harder and doesn't chip as easy. 

So, what's your consensus after trying the aforementioned rubbers compared to T05? I'm also interested in buying a T05 alternative and took a closer look to the Rasanter R50, the MX-P 50 as well as Gewo's Nexxus EL Pro 50. What would your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice be?

Personally, I prefer R47 more than T05 ever their prices are the same.

Nope, it's great.  It's not the same of course and there are differences.  But if you think that amateur players can't play a typical topspin game at roughly the same level (after an adjustment period) with either rubber then I think you're mad.

Well, one of my usual practice partners played on the Junior National team in Denmark 5 or 6 years ago. He's played with both R47 and T05 on the forehand recently. When he plays with R47, I can and have beaten him. When he plays with T05, I have no chance. I'm lucky to even get one game. That has to say something. 

Don't think this is the experience for most people. 

I think you can make it fit lots of different narratives, depending on what you're trying to push.

Could be that it doesn't suit his style. Or he hasn't fully adjusted to it. Or his style with that rubber is more comfortable for you to play against, personally. I could go on. But it doesn't show some innate superiority for tenergy imo. Otherwise you wouldn't see pros using anything else, but we do. 

I don't know what to say to you beyond what I've already said. You may not like it, perfectly fair of course. But it say it sucks in comparison with rubber X which you happen to like is just your own point of view. One which is pretty extreme, again just my own point of view of course. 

Personal preference is always the winner, but I really feel that any huge performance gap has been closed between Tenergy and ESN.  Now the differences are minor, but noticeable enough that people will stick with what they just feel they like best, and there's nothing wrong with that.  I recently gave T05H another go and it was great, but I didn't feel like it was doing anything more than other rubbers I'd been using over the last few years and it made no difference to wins/losses or how I felt during training.

I look around my peers, and the players at the next 2,3,4 levels above me and there's a real mix of stuff being used.  MX-P (some using 50 degree now), R47/R50, some Bluefire, lots of Tenergy of course, still a good bunch of H3 on forehand (presumably boosted).  There's a decent mix at the pro level as well.  I think this is healthy for the sport overall, and a decent sign that Tenergy is a great rubber amongst other great rubbers, and pretty much anything which suits a style could be used in theory by the majority of amateurs.

Do realize at the pro level, what the pro is being paid does affect the equipment they use. I suspect Pitchford is an example of that but in general, people below the top 10 don't get paid much by Butterfly because Butterfly knows it has already got a large market share and those guys barely  contribute to it.

So many pros use other stuff because some of the other companies will pay them more than Butterfly does to use their stuff. It is a difficult conversation sometimes for the pros who need more money from their equipment deal but want to use Tenergy (where they will get the rubbers but no real cash for using it). If they signed with someone else, they would get more money and marketing than they do with Butterfly.  So they make a switch. 

Not saying this is true in every case, but it is something to think about when you think that because a pro is using something, it implies it is what they chose to use. Sometimes they chose it because they are paid better to use it than they would if they used Tenergy and that is the most important thing for them.

This x100 - also note that some pros on ESN rubber deals are changing the rubbers damn close to daily, no exaggeration, and thus they never have to deal with the inevitable performance drop off that us normal folks would start experiencing after a few short weeks with many ESN selections.

Correct.. The sponge is hard and requires proper looping technique. Chicken wing or arm only loops won't work. Another reason why I keep it on at least one blade is it can make spin even in hot/humid conditions. I've been using it on and off for several months and just switched back to it b/c our club has been too hot and humid way too often lately (mxp becomes a slippery mess when it's humid outside).

Ultimately, I think you should be very careful about how Pro equipment use can be applied to amateur equipment selection.  But people could at least be even handed with their reasoning.  Any argument about how often Pros change rubber, or if they "have" to boost to make their equipment competitive, could equally be applied to Butterfly as it is to ESN, or anything else (perhaps H3 being a special case of "probably gets boosted all the time").

My position, to clear up any misconception, is that a reasonable number of Pros use ESN.  If the baseline (day 1) performance of ESN rubber was really so much worse (as in, nerfs their game) than Brand X, they wouldn't use it.  If it's slightly worse, perhaps their contract is worth enough to offset that, but even if that represents some real-world measurable performance hit to a Pro, what is the real-world impact on an amateur?  Negligible, I would say.  A 5% drop is major to a Pro, hardly anything to most amateurs.

From that point, any argument about having to boost, durability, (or cost) not being a factor for Pros (which is probably correct) should also be applied across the board, including Butterfly.

I don't think we can take much value from what the Pros use, but what we can take is that there is a mix of manufacturer use, non-Butterfly gets used at the very highest level, if there is any real-world performance hit by that use then it's small at Pro level (meaning even smaller at amateur level), and we can't take much valuable info about durability from it (for any manufacturer).

My argument, boiled down, is that amateurs read far too much into Butterfly's dominance at Pro level and use it to justify their own equipment selection rather than pick something that just works for them.  And there's nothing wrong with picking Tenergy because it fits your own game nicely of course.  But trying another manufacturer for a bit and deciding that it "sucks" unilaterally is taking a fairly complex situation with lots of shades of grey and over-simplifying it.

Durability is a personal evaluation as well.  I don't see a high drop-off after "a few short weeks" with my rubber, but this depends on technique, level, expectations.  Each player needs to make their own mind up about durability, and we shouldn't look to Pros for help with this because it isn't relevant to them.

For ESN v Tenergy, IMO Tenergy used to have a massive advantage for durability when it was T05 vs (for example) Donic Coppa or Macro Era.  That was a long time ago, and back then the prices were pretty much the same (edit - meaning when Tenergy was released it wasn't much more expensive than ESN).  Now ESN durability is much better, and Tenergy prices have rocketed.  I can get 2 sheets of ESN vs one sheet of Tenergy, but there's no way I would claim than Tenergy has double the durability of R47 (from my highly average amateur use position).

I don't know whether the difference in Tenergy vs. best ESN or reasonable ESN is really 5% if the issue is soin production and shot quality. But my point is that straightforwardly talking about what pros use without understanding how compensation drives some of that can misleading.  That some pros switched to Butterfly to stick with T05 (Freitas and Appolonia) is telling.  That some pros have also gone the other way (Koki Niwa, Paul Drinkhall and now Pitchford) is a reminder that this can be complicated.  But I just brought this up be cause I felt your simply referring to what pros use without remembering their incentives to use those things required some nuanced.

I personally agree that blind usage of Tenergy is not necessary but I also think it isn't unreasonable for someone to try to copy what a pro uses as their baseline.  I think following the experts is a necessary Consequence Of division Of labor.  But if you ask me, I will say that Tenergy is not necessary but if you think u can use it go for it. But I would not recommend it to an adult learner given my experiences.  But it has more to do with passive game than active game and whether I would really feel happier playing $100  for a rubber when I can get 4 for $120.

Well, that's it exactly.  You have to start somewhere, so why not a pro setup?  Or, perhaps slightly more reasonably, the setup of someone who has a style you wish to develop towards.  Doesn't have to be a pro, could be someone you admire at the higher levels of the amateur game.

The point I try to make about this is that although there is some value to be extracted from the pro's choice of equipment, it's often overstated.  And there's no more reason, IMO, to pick a Tenergy-using player to copy than anyone else, if that style is what you want to ape.  So if I see, say, Gauzy using Rasanter then that's enough of a jumping-off point for me for a dependable level of performance as picking, say, Boll.  There's either some value to be taken from Pro selection, in which case there are lots of options from various manufacturers, or none at all (in which case, moot point).

But when I see people state, unequivocally, that rubber x is just bad (Rasanter here, Dignics over there, etc), rather than bad for them,  and not just slightly worse, but totally sucks, then showing that rubber x is used at the Pro level is a fair response I think.  And we can also go down to the semi-pro level if we want, say Bundesliga, and see more variety again.  Or I can go to high-level banded tournaments here in the UK and see the same.  The implication that Tenergy is just objectively better, and if you don't agree then you're not good enough to know the difference (see eric above), just grinds my gears somewhat.

As an aside, I've been using Hexer Powergrip for a few weeks now and it's excellent for spin...but I'd love to try a 50 degree sponge under it.

Yes, boosting R50 with one layer is where it's at...

 

Couldn't recommend them enough. It's great that there are now so many good options to play with.

 

 

 

 

Winner: Gewo.

Of course, this is for my personal preference for hardness level for FH rubber, etc.

It corrects what I saw were important deficiencies in the EL Pro 48: that of the throw angle reduction when you increase power. It also has more power and spin than the EL Pro 48. Only thing it does worse is serving (for which, IMHO, EL Pro 48 was the best rubber I have used).

Also, the topsheet of EL Pro 50 Hard (29-021) is different from that of the EL Pro 48 (29-019). It is stiffer and more suitable for a power game.

I haven't done a detailed comparison with Dignics or T05H, but the EL Pro 50 Hard is the best ESN rubber I have ever used.

What I mean by positive feedback. When you use tenergy, you feel like you can do anything, you will start to do more and more and start develop your ball feel. Other ESN rubber will simply straight out miss, overshoots or down the net it goes, it creates a negative feedback and make you scare to try to do more. 

I am assuming this forum are adults amps only. If you are training everyday, it doesn't matter what rubber you are using because you develop your feel via multiball and repetitiveness, but lots of us do not have that luxury. 

Also durability, a used t05 might look old but it's still very playable. Rubbers like mxp,xiom everytime i change a new sheet i was like "oh wow that's very different"

I think one could make a good argument that Dignics is as good or better than Tenergy. 😊

Either a troll job or clearly not up to the times. 

ESN has advanced a lot over the times. Most ESN rubbers back in the day were 45 deg and frankly not that good. That has changed. I can't use T05 precisely because it is unforgiving and low dwell relative to ESN rubbers (like EL Pro 48) or does not grip the ABS ball as good (though, Dignics does). 

You live in the US, do you? The top players here generally have better financial resources to use any rubber they want relative to players from most other parts of the world. If T05 is the best, then that is what they'd use.

Back in the day, practically every player on the US men's national team (Kanak, Adam Hugh, Tim Wang, etc) used T05 on FH.

Now, how many players on the men's national team use Tenergy 05 on FH? Take for example the team for the 2019 PanAm championships that has just been announced a week ago?

The answer is precisely zero.

What about the women? One out of four (the weakest one).

That does not mean that Butterfly isn't good - T05H & Dignics are great & clearly better options on FH than T05. But then, you throw your 'forgiveness' argument out of the window. And my contention is that the new, hard ESN stuff is a better competitor to these hard rubbers than the old 45 deg sh!t was to T05. I have six sheets of Dignics lying around and can't bring myself around to use even one of them with so much quality for around $35 available.

Regarding the national team comment - most of them are using Hurricane, not ESN rubbers, except for those who are JOOLA sponsored.

On the men's side, only 1 of the 4 always used H3N on FH. Another (NK) was a perennial T05 user whose level jumped a few levels (especially in his serve, return of serve & short game) after he switched to H3N on both sides of his HL5. And the best player also was a perennial T05 user who switched to a harder, better, 'less forgiving' rubber. The 4th player has been the scourge of all chinese coaches on the East coast & has grown up using Joola rubbers since he was a kid.

Even in the international circuit, even Dima was recently photographed using Dignics both sides. Timo changed from a T05 FH. So did Harimoto, WCT, Lin Yun Ju and the others. At this level, it is very hard to force change but it happened. Even on BH, so many players (like Ding Ning, Lin Gaoyuan, Dima, LYJ, Harimoto, etc) switched away from T05.

So, yes, in a nutshell, T05 is good (was better with the old ball) but not the end-all be-all.

Anyways, sorry for the digression from the main thread topic.

My point was more that people aren't exactly rushing to go for ESN rubbers now either. But yes, there does seem to be a mass shift towards harder rubbers now. Is Kanak using Dignics?

A lot of what players use comes from emulating the pro's equipment. At the pro level, sponsorship is a must (not just providing equipment but paying players to use it).

It is tough for the European companies like Andro, Gewo, Donic (which, if you dig deeper, are just brands that table tennis stores started - yes, many of these 'companies' are owned by mom'n'pop table tennis shops) to compete with behemoths like Butterfly or DHS in providing sponsorship money / equipment to pros. Especially because both the products that Butterfly introduced in response to this increased competition (T05H & D05) are very good & clearly better than T05.

But the difference in quality at the 50 deg or higher hardness scales between Butterfly and ESN is not that high at all, especially given the price differential. T05H is a fantastic rubber. But, I prefer the Gewo EL Pro 50 Hard over T05H even if they both were $35.

bard romance wrote: Is Kanak using Dignics?

Kanak switched to T05H on FH.

I was tempted to try O7A after reading your review. But then I saw this in TTD:

I'm giving t0H a try since a few weeks, it 'feels' almost similar to the El pro 53, as in the same bat angle and stroke will work for both. However, the pro53 holds the ball quite a bit longer and hence you get a better sense of control. I hated the t05H when I tried it first, however, I liked it a lot better after getting used to the pro53.

The main advantage with t05H is that I get 'slightly' better spin and 'dip'  on my topspins since I have a quick snappy stroke, can't really make usee of the good dwell that the pro53 offers here . Soft brushy strokes are better with t05h, especially serves and pushes. Even blocking works better for me since t05H doesn't hold the ball too long. 

Now at the professional level, pros that like playing close to the table would def prefer playing with t05h or dignics since they don't hold the ball too long and hence won't be affected much by the incoming spin, however, pros that take a step or two back off the table might actually Benefit more from some of the hard esn rubbers (simon gauzy and hugo for example) since they offer good dwell to really load up on spin and power from behind. 

Unlike someone above mentioned, any amateur player without a really consistent and complete stroke set will not benefit by playing with any tenergy. They'l end up holding back and playing half and incomplete strokes due to tenergys low dwell and lack of forgiveness. However, ppl who have really good technique or ppl who receive coaching or guidance can probably benefit from tenergy as it lets you play a better quality ball with very less effort when your timing and technique is correct.

For evryone else, some of the latest esn rubbers are definitely worth a look. 

I recall good times when tenergy's high dwell and ease of use was cited as the main reason to choose it over literally everything else. 

As stated above, a good reply would be: Well, as it pertains to the second point (& clearly better than T05), it depends.  The evidence published is that T05 holds a very prominent position today.  Would the above statement have provided specific playing characteristics that distinguish among the three, then, given the desire to realize those playing characteristics, the "clearly better" declaration would be applicable.

The overall performance improves, spin and speed compared to out of the package and it's not only because it gets softer. Actually, it increases the tension and the sponge pores.

Also, a Rhyzer Pro 50 boosted feels way faster and firmer compared to non boosted Rhyzer 48. 

ps: I use only one layer of TRF booster. More than this I feel the rubber gets overboosted and mushy.

Pro GT X51 and Target Ultim 50 did not have a lot factory booster like Evolutions or Bluefires.. So their performance out of package was linear. My pratice partner uses X51 without booster, no complain.

I prefer to boost brand new and let it go until I change for a new pair.

Any more doubts, just PM me to not change the post subject.