Single Ply hinoki blades
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Topic: Single Ply hinoki blades
Posted By: guni4you
Subject: Single Ply hinoki blades
Date Posted: 02/03/2020 at 8:50pm
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Hi, Can someone please make a comparison between these two blades. I have pasted the links below. https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-speed-90-hinoki-9mm" rel="nofollow - https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-speed-90-hinoki-9mm https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-imperial-hinoki-2020-9mm" rel="nofollow - https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-imperial-hinoki-2020-9mm Moreover what are the characteristics of single ply hinoki blades? Please let me know. Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/03/2020 at 9:28pm
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There is that thread for you, it's old but I am confident everything in it is still valid. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/attention-all-single-ply-hinoki-club-members_topic20702.html" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/attention-all-single-ply-hinoki-club-members_topic20702.html also: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/pictures-of-your-single-ply-hinoki-blades-2018_topic82299_post1022064.html" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/pictures-of-your-single-ply-hinoki-blades-2018_topic82299_post1022064.html http://mytabletennis.net/forum/singleply-shakehand-recommendations_topic55979_post684098.html?" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/singleply-shakehand-recommendations_topic55979_post684098.html http://mytabletennis.net/forum/single-ply-hinoki-center-part-of-the-tree_topic16062_post169798.html" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/single-ply-hinoki-center-part-of-the-tree_topic16062_post169798.html ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: guni4you
Date Posted: 02/03/2020 at 9:34pm
Thanks. But you have any idea why is there any so much difference in price between the two different blades that i posted the links about. Both are made by darker and both are 9 mm 1 ply hinoki blades.
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stiltt wrote:Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/03/2020 at 9:36pm
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marketing has something to do with it but it could be a tree older than the normal ones they generally use, where the grain might be smaller making the wood more valuable. ps: I added links in my 1st answer. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: DarkerMyLove
Date Posted: 02/03/2020 at 10:59pm
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The way it is described the Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020 is more 'rare' and perhaps has 'tighter grains' compared to the Speed 90. I believe tighter grains might be a reflection of the wood being older. Rarity has its cost and you can see that with Black tag Viscarias, fishscale grain, ST handle 90g+ viscarias or even the W968 DHS
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Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 02/03/2020 at 11:45pm
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With Hinoki more dense grains are associated with more power. It's not exactly true since their are many other factors. So what you are really paying for is appearance to a certain degree. No different if you buy a Les Paul guitar with a standard top vs something with a flame or quilted top. You will pay many hundred or thousands of dollars for the appearance but it might not sound or play any better. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: guni4you
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 12:06am
Have you ever played with 1 ply hinoki blade? I have heard that the feeling is the best.But they break easily and are very thick. Any experiences please share?
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 4:07am
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Both are good for re-creational TT. Unless you are flat hitter, you want something more flexible for serious competition. Comparing two of them - version 2020 sample which is on the picture does not look like it worth any more than "older" one. Lines are not evenly distributed, "eye" is not in the centre. It's just regular Darker blade. Will play faster than Nittaku Miyabi (due to thickness, and density) but that's about it. If there are any differences in play properties between these two blades it will have absolutely no impact on your play. If they were of the same weight then I am not sure whether you would be able to tell them apart. You might, but not because of some differences in these models, simply because there are not two identical blades, especially 1ply. Yet another collectible. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 7:57am
I´ve played with Speed 90 FL for a while. It will not break unless drop it on the floor. Small hits in the table will not break the blade. Mine had some blued edges because I often hit the table and nothing happened to the blade. The word can describe best playing with it is fun. It´s a pleasure looping with soft tension rubbers. Touch is not comparable to any other blade material. It´s stiff, very soft and fast. But the reason I stopped playing with it is the playability. The blade is already thick and when I glued 2 max rubbers it became a super thick setup. It reduces the agility to change from BH to FH and the overall handling capacity. Other than that I found harder rubbers didn´t match the blade. I´ve tried T05, Hexer HD and even H3 Neo and didn´t like the result. |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 11:53am
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Here is a China shopping site which sells HIGH price 600 year old Royal Darker single ply blades. I don't they play any better than my fish scale ds90 though. http://shop.ttshop.cn/goods.php?id=1629" rel="nofollow - http://shop.ttshop.cn/goods.php?id=1629
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Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 4:46pm
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The 40+ elephant ball's made single ply hinoki blades obsolete. ------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 5:09pm
I respectfully disagree! How is it obsolete while Darker and other manufacturers are still making it? You need to try one to appreciate one.
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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 6:09pm
Which ones does he own? I bet a KTS red label is one among them. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 7:18pm
I don't think there is a high end Hinoki blade I haven't tried. I have never had one break but the grain does run in one direction so it is possible(but rare)to split a blade. I have also heard of players just glueing them back together. You can also break a multi ply blade so.....take it with a grain of salt. They have a unique feel cause Hinoki is soft and stiff at the same time and once you get over 9mm are very very fast. If you want to try one start off with a Miyabi or something from coach tony ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/04/2020 at 7:45pm
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I confirm that a 1-ply hinoki blade that breaks in 2 pieces can be glued back with http://https://www.gorillatough.com/product/gorilla-wood-glue/" rel="nofollow - gorilla wood glue and we will NOT feel a difference in play after the repair. We won't even SEE the repair if a good sanding job is done after the gluing. It's kind of amazing. The tricky part is to apply pressure sideways against the edges but with the right clamp it will work great. This is https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71-9h3yNRlL._SL1417_.jpg" rel="nofollow - the best for the task I think. jpenmaster means the Taiwanese " http://ww3.ping-pong.tw/index.php?cPath=24&language=en" rel="nofollow - I love ping-pong " store when he mentions coach Tony. I bought many times from them and their pre-sale communication is awesome and almost instant when we take into account the time difference.
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:26am
I had similarly good experience. Wanted to try so called yellow cypress blade. I love ping pong did great job. Concluded that when it comes to hinoki material it must be Kiso, others are different. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:49am
Your blade is now worth a lot more  than you probably thought. But seriously, Users of these blades never sell a good one.------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:59am
I have the first blade, the cheaper one, in my collection. In my opinion, this blade is clearly different from the traditional DS90. It is larger for one. The more expensive,Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020 (9mm, (I think) appears to be fashioned off the traditional version. I think you should buy this version. If you don't like it, I will take it off your hands discounted 20% discount off what you you paid.  . .........OK, you drive a hard bargain, 10%.------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 11:41am
| Anyone ever notice the edges on the Imperial model is not shaped at a unique curve like the ds90? But then again no other blade in the world has this beautifully curved edge. |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 12:52pm
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Yes, maybe it's only aesthetics but at that price I would want the full eye on the edges. I wonder what kind of player would spend that much money in a 1-ply hinoki and not wanting that eye or not being aware of it. Here is an example from Kevin a.k.a American hinoki. https://dionbaseleres.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/american-hinoki.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://dionbaseleres.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/american-hinoki.jpg https://dionbaseleres.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/american-hinoki.jpg" rel="nofollow">  ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: wappak
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 8:46pm
| i also have 1 ply cpen from coach tony of i love pingpong, its a taiwan yellow cypress hinoki 8mm, it feels harder than kiso and darker in color, they price this yellow cypress hinoki higher than their kiso, the thickness of the blade is thinner at 8mm because its harder maybe thats why their kiso are thicker at 9mm up, you can email coach tony, not all his hinoki blade are listed at their website, last time i got an email from him, he has beautiful 1 ply kiso at 9.5mm, that was a few months ago. |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 9:25pm
I bought an Apolonia from a French guy on matostt and he told me he has 3 so I had those exact thoughts. I was right to go for it because the packaging, instant shipping 5 days delivery and the blade was as good as the other 3 I had tested from a few club mates. In this case I decided I would go with the weight I like and Butterfly quality control and I was not deceived. I think I would go the same way buying from Darker. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 10:47pm
Thank you. I did received high offers for my blade.
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Posted By: yylik
Date Posted: 02/05/2020 at 11:00pm
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Anyone notice that Imperial Hinoki 2020 is not available in Japan market? I can't find in Iruru or other Japanese online store. I have few darker speed 90s, one from China and others from Japan. The one from China has a "different" feel from the rest. There is a possibility of fake product, or I just got a lemon. Incidentally, my friend shared the same thoughts (both of us bought from the same China seller). Just for sharing. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44959&title=feedback-yylik" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/06/2020 at 2:01am
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I think TT11 will sell fake products when pigs fly. It is the biggest TT webshop in Europe, with the most choices and they are Darker's best and biggest reseller in Europe. Darker knows exactly what stands in TT11'page. Taking the risk of selling openly a fake one would be suicide for them.
------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: momus
Date Posted: 02/06/2020 at 7:46am
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Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/06/2020 at 8:43am
Can you prove it with photos of ruler on blades? My ds90 is 150 x155mm.
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Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 02/06/2020 at 12:20pm
Exactly. Speed 90 FL has a headsize 155x150mm. I cut 2mm of the handle to make headsize match BTY standards, 157x150, but had to deal with a short handle.
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Posted By: momus
Date Posted: 02/07/2020 at 3:50am
it's not my data. that's the answer they gave me from tabletennis11! I don't own a "Darker Imperial" but I have 2 "Darker Speed 90", I'll measure them too and I'll report back
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Posted By: momus
Date Posted: 02/07/2020 at 2:55pm
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well, I just double-checked my spare Speed 90 ST (it's without rubbers brand new, so very easy to exact measure the headsize)
it's 157 x 152 mm !! bought from tt11 a year ago (I can upload proof photos tomorrow if you like) |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/07/2020 at 3:50pm
| Very interesting. Please do upload photos...and what's the weight? |
Posted By: Ray
Date Posted: 02/08/2020 at 12:59am
Darker Imperial Hinoki blades are not available in Japan simply because they are made exclusively for TT11. Here's a confirmation from Darker Japan  : https://mobile.twitter.com/darker_xghtn153/status/1225919662715629568" rel="nofollow - https://mobile.twitter.com/darker_xghtn153/status/1225919662715629568 ------------- Life is too short for defensive play. https://twitter.com/spinnier_com" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/spinnier_com https://fb.me/spinnier" rel="nofollow - fb.me/spinnier |
Posted By: momus
Date Posted: 02/08/2020 at 7:43am
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https://imgur.com/a/CIcvMPC" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/a/CIcvMPC my Darker Speed 90 ST dimensions. the weight is 92gr (and the one i play with is 88gr and with Dignics 05 both sides 178gr) |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/08/2020 at 6:11pm
| Looks like 150x155mm to me. |
Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 2:11am
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It seems the Darker Imperial is sold in China but with a different look and twice the price of TT11 801,66 $ exactly ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 7:16am
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One for a history expert. Didn't Darker always sell a select few separately? Basically one that had a couple letters to describe? I'm wondering if the Imperial maybe this version in that it's a select wood. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: momus
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 8:39am
I don't know how it looks in the photos but it's definitely 157 x 152 mm
when i find time I'll put a measure on it to be clear, if you like
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Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 9:37am
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mine is exactly that size. I have 4 darker speed 90 and 3 of them also have this size. My Darker tanpan is also with that size. I have also 1 speed 90 with 15,2 X 15,5. I measured all my Darker today. ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 11:09am
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some pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLhR1hq" rel="nofollow - https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLhR1hq ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: momus
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 11:30am
so, do you see any real-life differences between Speed 90 and Imperial? is it worth paying 120€ more?
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Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 11:50am
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The grain is nicer. Not as nice as the red Taiwanese cypress 1000 year tree blade made by Gerry Yu The handle of the ST blade seems different. On a collectible point of view, this is a nice blade. On a player's point of view, I don't know. I won't tried it. ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 4:09pm
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Have you tried the Gerry Yu blade? I chatted with him and he said the Taiwan cypress is harder and denser than the kiso hinoki, and they cost more. Yours looks like what he called a S or SS grade. How do you like it compare to the ds90? |
Posted By: wappak
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 7:35pm
| i have a taiwan yellow cypress from tony of ilovepingpong, the feeling is harder than kiso, also thinner at 8mm cpen, |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 02/09/2020 at 8:12pm
Those are some very nice blades ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 02/10/2020 at 1:33am
Mine is with red cypress. It is slower than the yellow Taiwanese Cypress and offers more control. I had a discussion about my way of playing and we decided it would have been better to go for a more controlable blade. It is perfect for blocking smoothly and hitting when you want. It is not really a looping blade of course but on pushes from your opponent, you can open up with a nice spinny topspin. I like the Darker S90 but it offers far less control. ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 02/13/2020 at 5:47am
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Many years ago I read at least 2 cases where c-pen with thickness of 8,5 mm were split along the wood lines (I forgot what caused that) and more or less it is agreed that single ply hinoki should have at least 9 mm. I wonder if the situation is different now. I believe the thread is still there. I find that single ply hinoki is too thick and bulky for me, so I always choose the thinnest, that is 9mm. I have Kokutaku Cho Super, Cho Tokusen A, TSP Hanabi, Speed 90 and Darker Hy Blade, all in J-pen 9mm. They are all now sitting in my cupboard as I am now using multi-ply C-Pen. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 02/13/2020 at 1:21pm
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Don't make the stories of 1-ply blades put you off. Yes when they split it looks dramatic but they are very easy to repair. This unlike most multi-ply blades. I have lost over 10 blades in the last 15 years or so. they either break at the handle, lifting plies, chipped plies etc. Think of the amount of times that you see your playing mates with damaged mulit-ply blades. In fact, I've lost 2x multi-ply blades this year. One was a badly chipped surface and the other had a top ply separate. There was a third that broke when it hit a wall....but we won't talk about that  ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |