tennis elbow
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Coaching & Tips
Forum Name: Coaching & Tips
Forum Description: Learn more about TT from the experts. Feel free to share your knowledge & experience.
Moderator: yogi_bear
Assistant Moderators: APW46, smackman
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88525
Printed Date: 04/27/2024 at 3:07am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: tennis elbow
Posted By: blahness
Subject: tennis elbow
Date Posted: 06/28/2020 at 9:14pm
|
Would like to know about this, if anyone's got it before, how did they overcome it, and are there any known pitfalls to avoid getting it? ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Replies:
Posted By: vik2000
Date Posted: 06/28/2020 at 9:18pm
| A friend of mine had a pretty serious case of tennis elblow. I think acupuncture helped him quite a bit. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 06/28/2020 at 9:44pm
| I think my forehand stroke was a little off which caused the tennis elbow. When I fixed the stroke the problem went away. May not be your problem though. |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/28/2020 at 9:53pm
Could you describe the issue and what did you fix? I don't have tennis elbow but would just like to look into it... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
mts388 wrote:Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/28/2020 at 9:55pm
Do you know what was the cause of his tennis elbow? ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 06/28/2020 at 11:34pm
It was about 10 years ago, but if I remember correctly, my stroke was not a straight stroke, but the elbow seemed to go up or down much more that it should have. I think that if I do my strokes correctly I won't have any problems.
|
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 12:55am
|
I am surprised we do not have a series of no-nos re. technique when it's about the tennis elbow. Is bad technique a possible vector? why don't we know that already if the answer is yes? is this what you are really asking about blahness? A couple friends used ultrasound technology to heal their tennis elbow and they came back as strong as before. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 4:56am
Yes +1 I wanna learn more about this... Actually I was watching some Ryu Seung Min videos, and a really interesting advice that he had was not to limit the followthrough to protect the shoulder (very interesting perspective which I've never considered before).... There's also a tennis video which is saying that the abrupt deceleration of the stroke post contact caused by limiting followthrough is putting huge stresses on the body especially the elbow, it's like sudden braking vs gentle braking....
------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 5:12am
|
Relax yoyr elbow and arm more. Also, use more hip rotation and do not swing just your arms.
------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 2:19pm
|
between making rackets all night and playing, I started having a lot of this. Braces didn't help. I started doing everything else lefty Also beware of texting ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: firetack
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 2:32pm
|
Also beware of texting Agree with this.Browsing for long periods on a mobile phone can also make the elbow ache,I switch hands to prevent pain ------------- Black Balsa 3.0 fh/tenergy 05 1.9 388d ox |
Posted By: chongqinghotpot
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 5:08pm
|
I had severe tennis elbow when I played with short/medium pips on my BH for years to the point I could barely play once a week. After a few months of rest and then switching to inverted rubbers, I have been able to play 2-3 times a week without much pain for several years. ------------- USATT rating 2200 05Vis64 |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 7:12pm
Lol I'm guilty of this too, mobile phone addiction! ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 8:46pm
What style were you playing with the short/medium pips? Were you playing defensive over the table or aggressive with it? I'm curious because one of my 15 year old students already has something that seems like tennis elbow. And she uses long pips on the backhand (over the table chock blocks). That said, she's very aggressive on the forehand and I think that's where the issue is in her case. She also seemed to have had a bad shoulder from a young age.
|
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 9:11pm
| Sometimes changing to a different kind of handle can help. FL to ST or vice versa. |
Posted By: pitigoi
Date Posted: 06/30/2020 at 2:39pm
|
I wear a tennis elbow strap bought at a tennis store (for my left arm) and it helps. Correcting technique is so hard! ------------- Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g) Left hand, 2020-1: Stiga Allround WRB (67g)/Fastarc G-1 1.8mm/V11 > Extra max 158g Fitness Friendship Fun |
Posted By: ejprinz
Date Posted: 06/30/2020 at 8:58pm
|
I did have tennis elbow until the start of Covid-19 and it has gone away since then. I am playing again and I now make sure that I do slow exercises with light dumbbells with my arms, this seems to help. Also dehydration hurts the joint and makes tennis elbow worse. What I did first is watch some YouTube videos about the issue, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTjDq3_D-FU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTjDq3_D-FU or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLnPdhUOCxM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLnPdhUOCxM (sorry, German). I think the key point is to strengthen the arm and supporting muscles (not just arm, also back etc.). ------------- Yinhe 980XX, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Nittaku Wallest 1.0mm sponge. |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/30/2020 at 11:54pm
|
watched some more videos, it seems that although the affected area is in the elbow, the tendons are associated with wrist movement... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: chongqinghotpot
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 12:40pm
|
blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper. ------------- USATT rating 2200 05Vis64 |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 7:44pm
I can see how wristy punches would require a lot of forceful wrist action especially if the equipment is slow... It would seem as if loops especially if powered more by the body would in fact be much easier on the elbow.... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 07/06/2020 at 3:58pm
|
Yes, I have/ had tennis elbow too. It started some 5 years ago when I was playing and from then from time to time I feel it sometimes... First thing when it starts, use ice, then rest for a month or smth  .. when you don't feel it start doing special stretches and exercises to strengthen you forehand (lots of exercises on youtube, basically wrist flexing /twisting with a dumbbell). When you start playing use a special tennis elbow strap which helps quite a bit and ads more confidence when playing and as said, try to relax your hand when you play (my FH stroke was quite tensed Imho I suppose..)If you are lucky it will pass and never return again
------------- Stiga Offensive Classic Legend DHS Hurricane Neo3 Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo |
Posted By: wilkinru
Date Posted: 07/06/2020 at 4:41pm
|
I was getting tennis elbow on the transition from forehand to backhand. I've changed my technique to involve more legs/torso so now my arm is doing less of this work and my body is doing more. Pretty amazing I'm up to playing 16-18 hours a week now. ------------- TB ZLF inverted inverted |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 07/06/2020 at 5:15pm
Lucky guy. I've got a couple of friends coming to the house, so I'm getting around 6 hours a week. I miss the club atmosphere.
|
Posted By: Kontra
Date Posted: 07/07/2020 at 5:23pm
|
I've joined tennis elbow members club last year. I wanted to sort it out straight away. Plan was to try and treat it without stopping with table tennis. That was right decision as there was only tiny bit of pain and I think I managed to prevent more damage. Here's link I've found really helpful, I've invested few £ in flexi bar and power ball (dirty cheap on AliExpress)+ I always keep rubber band in my pockets so I can use it when walking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNiJvzjBwA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNiJvzjBwA Link re. massage; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_70oOs9dkwE&t=2s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_70oOs9dkwE&t=2s + ice pack in the evening while watching tv. I can't say I'm fully recovered but I feel much better, I can play without any issues, just need to remember to warm up muscles before game. Hope this helps, good luck to all fellow tennis elbow club members! |
Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 07/08/2020 at 5:27am
Welcome to the club  What are your impressions about powerball? There are a some hype around it. Did you find it useful? ------------- Stiga Offensive Classic Legend DHS Hurricane Neo3 Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo |
Posted By: Kontra
Date Posted: 07/08/2020 at 9:19am
|
Yes, it does make a difference. There are few instruction videos on youtube how to use it. As I couldn't play during this corona time I decided to put an effort and did warm up/massage/powerball/other exercises/ice on regular basis and I'm happy with overall result. Of course, not playing also helped. |
Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 4:49am
Thanks for the info. The problem I see here, is that it is little bit difficult to exclude the results of powerball, cause at the same time you also stopped playing and did other exercises. Anyways, does it feel that after doing powerball rotations that your forearm is tired or burning (like you feel after for example doing wrist flexing with dumbbells with adequate weight?) ------------- Stiga Offensive Classic Legend DHS Hurricane Neo3 Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo |
Posted By: Kontra
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 11:41am
|
I would say it stimulates muscles and makes them stronger. After 2-3 minutes I feel like lower part of hand is kind of tired or as you said burning but that feeling disappears very fast, almost immediately. I've used power ball before corona but not really on daily basis and it seemed to me it does the job. |
Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 07/12/2020 at 12:11pm
Sounds tempting Which one did you get? ------------- Stiga Offensive Classic Legend DHS Hurricane Neo3 Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 12:52am
|
Necroing this topic as I managed to dig more info out: So in tennis, it's very well known that the one-handed backhand is a cause of many tennis elbow cases. There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis: 1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 2) Poor technique -> hitting hard without use of the body. 3) Lack of wrist extension in the followthrough - after a violent stroke, if you do not allow your wrist to break and gently decelerate (which is a braking mechanism), the muscles attached to the elbow will have to withstand a much greater load which it's not designed to do. So something like the wrist followthrough of Persson, Samsonov, Falck, William Henzell who allow the wrist extension to happen during the followthrough are the best. 4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 5) Bad shoulder or wrist strength, if those muscles can't handle the braking your elbow will, so counterintuitively strengthening those parts is crucial to preventing tennis elbow. Powerballs are apparently incredible for strengthening wrist (forearm muscles), and there's plenty of exercises to strengthen the shoulder muscles.
------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: obesechopper
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 12:25pm
My elbow flares up whenever I try to play a smash style game. Putting short pips on the forehand, for instance. That forward swing aggravates the elbow for some reason, but when I do nothing but loops against back spin and dead balls... no problems! If I start trying to play more offensively by counter-driving, counter-looping or executing more forceful fishes then my elbow again flares up. I can chop fine on the forehand side with no problems. The brushier loops are also fine to do continuously. If I try to attack any incoming top spin (where my angle closes and the stroke goes flatter), I'll feel it creeping up in the elbow after a short while. On the backhand, it's a bit weirder as well... I can chop fine with OX LP, performing a more forward and downward stroke. However, if I use short pips or inverted on that side for very long (where I must angle my wrist/thumb more parallel to the floor) I'll notice pain starting in the elbow. So on the forehand side I can brush loop with no issue... but not hit flatter. On the backhand side I can do the flatter chop stroke... but not brush! For the BH, all I do differently is rotate the wrist. If I hold it like a karate chop style, bam! Pain in the elbow. If I supinate/turn outward slightly, then no real problem.
|
Posted By: pitigoi
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 4:00pm
My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength. ------------- Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g) Left hand, 2020-1: Stiga Allround WRB (67g)/Fastarc G-1 1.8mm/V11 > Extra max 158g Fitness Friendship Fun |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 4:32pm
|
just break your wrist and wear a cast for 7 weeks. You'll be surprised how much better your elbow feels ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: bes
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 5:02pm
Note to self... Cancel appointment with Dr. Cole! bes
|
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 5:33pm
You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 6:11pm
I think basically if you allow the supination/extension to happen, it acts like a brake to your stroke, which relieves stresses from your elbow. Also if you involve more of your body it's probably easier (loop vs hit). On all my looping strokes my hands are pretty relaxed these days since I generate power mostly from the legs, the arms just go along for the ride. ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: pitigoi
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 7:37pm
Keep your elbow close, raise your arm (forward), and is impossible to lead with the elbow. When your forearms pivots more around your elbow (which gives you better quality), you can go wrong. ------------- Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g) Left hand, 2020-1: Stiga Allround WRB (67g)/Fastarc G-1 1.8mm/V11 > Extra max 158g Fitness Friendship Fun |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 01/05/2021 at 8:12pm
Yeah you can do that too, but like what you said it reduces the quality tremendously... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 01/07/2021 at 7:40am
My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is...  One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess.. ------------- Stiga Offensive Classic Legend DHS Hurricane Neo3 Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 01/07/2021 at 7:57am
I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball. ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: ghostzen
Date Posted: 01/07/2021 at 9:16am
See Michael Maze vs. Hao Shuai  Smash/flat kill is a pretty important and powerful skill at TT. One which is not taught enough sad to say at many levels. Same with bog standard bread and butter driving of backhand and forehand. Pet coaching peeve over.. sorry everyone.Having tennis or golfer elbow is a total bugger and very easy to stop or highly limit the players play. By injury or issue it's not nice. I have had teams mates have injections, wear bands, stretching etc with them resting for ages. ( Covid is acutally handy for resting from TT! the rest of life not so handy.... ) It takes sometimes like simas said a not loading the stroke up or Blah's idea of finding another way to try and finish a make a winner. Tricky to balance and the loss of a strong tool in the weapons cabinet.Cheers |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 01/07/2021 at 5:12pm
Lol you can kill lobbers just by alternating loopkills with sidespin with dropshots and let them run like Ma Lin doing that to Maze ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: ashishsharmaait
Date Posted: 01/07/2021 at 6:45pm
| BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm. |
Posted By: Simas
Date Posted: 01/13/2021 at 3:45am
could you tell more about that? ------------- Stiga Offensive Classic Legend DHS Hurricane Neo3 Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo |
Posted By: mercury83
Date Posted: 01/13/2021 at 8:55am
|
Before the lockdown I'd go play tennis everyday. I've always been https://thetennisfanatic.com" rel="nofollow - The Tennis Fanatic in my group, haha. Luckily, I've conviced them to join me too lol. Anyway, I think it was a week or two before the first lockdown when I felt a excruciating pain near the elbow joint. I continued playing of course, as a stubborn grown up man as I am and it did me no good. Few days later I still had the so called tennis elbow. But do you think that stopped me from playing?? No way, I kept playing while taking lots of pain relief medicine and hoped for the best. Needless to say, the pain has spread to my forearm and wrist and I finally went to the doctor. He said if I continued playing for as little as one day, I would have needed surgery :) Almost a half of year later and I feel my best, can't wait to be back in the game ;) hmu if you're up for a match with the next Djokovic hahaha |
Posted By: ashishsharmaait
Date Posted: 01/14/2021 at 2:18am
I had tennis elbow a few years ago. I tried a few elbow exercises, the squeeze ball and the gyroball as recommended by the physio, but still had some lingering pain. I then went in for 12 sessions of ultrasound, 20 mins per session, followed by 15 mins of stretching exercises, and there was noticeable difference after 1 week and after two weeks there was no discomfort.
|
Posted By: deyakshoka
Date Posted: 01/14/2021 at 3:28pm
Looks like this reactive treatment is AFTER you get the table-tennis elbow. For more of a proactive preventive solution I would suggest wearing elbow brace support. There are literally 100s of types. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=elbow+brace&_sacat=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=elbow+brace&_sacat=0 While I am the least obsessed with what rubber & blade pros use, table-tennis elbow is one area where you may want to research how pro players address this issue. I am especially puzzled when I see lot of pros wearing a small knee brace like the one shown below :- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knee-Brace-Women-Men-Adjustable-Patella-Support-Strap-Runners-Pain-Relief-Bracer/303108703111?hash=item4692afc387:g:6-YAAOSwZvRahK-U" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knee-Brace-Women-Men-Adjustable-Patella-Support-Strap-Runners-Pain-Relief-Bracer/303108703111?hash=item4692afc387:g:6-YAAOSwZvRahK-U I suspect backhand looping causes lot of tennis-elbow problems but I am not a doctor (but I play one on internet forums to meet women) |