General - WTTC Finals 2022, Chengdu, 9/30-10/9

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WTTC Finals 2022, Chengdu, 9/30-10/9

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Topic: WTTC Finals 2022, Chengdu, 9/30-10/9

Posted By: zeio
Subject: WTTC Finals 2022, Chengdu, 9/30-10/9
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 11:59am

https://www.ittf.com/tournament/2535/2022-WTTC-Finals-Chengdu/#information" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/tournament/2535/2022-WTTC-Finals-Chengdu/#information

CTTA has just announced the selection criteria for the 5 team members.

Direct entry for the top 4 players by 2022 Week 34 of ITTF TTWR. The top 50 players and those who have participated in the singles of WTT FEE/CT/SCT 2022 and WTT SCT/CS/FEE ESS 2022, or 6 men and 7 women, will fight for the last spots.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_MS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_MS.html
MT
FZD, ML, LJK, WCQ
Round-robin, BO5 - LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_WS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_WS.html
WT
SYS, CM, WMY, WYD
Fan Siqi, Zhang Rui, Liu Weishan, Kuai Man, CXT, HZJ, QTY
Unlike the 6 men, the 7 women will be divided into 2 groups - domestic and overseas:
Fan Siqi, Zhang Rui, Liu Weishan, Kuai Man, and HZJ will take part in a round-robin, BO5, in which the winner will become the "candidate 5th player".
CXT and QTY will compete at the https://mytabletennis.net/forum/wtt-contender-muscat-2022-9-410_topic92148.html" rel="nofollow - WTT Contender Muscat 2022 , and if either of them wins the singles title, then that player will become the "5th player", or else the "candidate 5th player" will become the "5th player".

https://weibo.com/1498760141/M2ydk9jTG" rel="nofollow - https://weibo.com/1498760141/M2ydk9jTG

中国乒协公布成都世乒赛选拔办法
世界排名前四直接入围，6男7女将争第五人资格

今天，中国乒协公布了成都世乒赛团体赛选拔办法。

选拔办法中明确，以2022年8月23日国际乒联公布的最新世界排名为标准，单打排名最高的男女各4名选手，直接获得成都世乒赛男女团体赛参赛资格。这样男队樊振东、马龙、梁靖崑、王楚钦；女队孙颖莎、陈梦、王曼昱、王艺迪获得成都世乒赛参赛资格。

此外，世界排名在前 50 名之内的中国运动员以及获得 2022 年中东系列赛、匈牙利夏�£系列赛单打冠军的中国运动员将获得竞争团体赛第五人的资格。根据规则男队的林高远、向鹏、袁励岑、刘丁硕、林诗栋、赵子豪6名男选手；女队的范思琦、张瑞、刘炜珊、蒯曼、陈幸同、何卓佳、钱天一7名女选手将为团体赛第五人资格展开争夺。

中国乒协秘书长，男队主教练秦志戬介绍说：“今年队伍先后参加了多个国际系列赛，基本上队员们都打了多站国际比赛，也和主要对手进行了直接对抗。在这个前提下，最新的世界排名基本上反应了我们队员的真实实力。所以我们教练组商讨后，全票通过决定依照世界排名，在选取前四名直接入围世乒赛阵容的基础上，拿出一个名额出来竞争。”

�£在成都封闭集训的中国乒乓球队将利用封闭训练的间隙，举办团体赛最后一个参赛名额的选拔赛。男女队的选拔赛均采用五局三胜的循环赛赛制。

与男队直接6选1产生团体赛第五人不同，女队结合队内实际情况，将最后一个名单的竞争，分为国内国外两条线进行。

已经在成都进行封闭集训的范思琦、张瑞、刘炜珊、蒯曼、何卓佳5人将参加选拔的循环赛，循环赛冠军将获得世乒赛团体赛候选参赛资格。而陈幸同、钱天一将通过参加阿曼常规挑战赛（9 月 4 日-9 月 10 日，在阿曼·马斯喀特）进行竞争。根据选拔办法，这两人中任何一人如获得女单冠军，则直接获得成都世乒赛女子团体参赛资格。如果这两人都没有获得阿曼常规挑战赛女单冠军，则队内5人参加的选拔赛冠军获得成都世乒赛女子团体参赛资格。

“女队世界排名前四的领先优势比较大，选拔的重点在第五人上。”女队主教练李隼�£读选拔办法时表示，“此前因为身体和当地防疫政策原因陈幸同、钱天一退出了WTT突尼斯挑战赛未能和大部队在成都汇合，接下来还将参加系列比赛。考虑到她俩也都在我们第五人的竞争大名单内，所以女队教练组一致协商后决定将最后一个名额的竞争分为国内国外两条线来进行。”

据了�£，阿曼挑战赛除了陈幸同、钱天一领衔中国队参赛外，日本的伊藤美诚，中国台北的郑怡静、陈思羽，韩国的申�£�斌，以及欧洲多位主要对手都有报名参赛。“中国队大赛选拔的标准，一直都是关注综合实力，以及与主要对手的交手的胜率。”李隼补充�£释说，“所以阿曼挑战赛，如果陈幸同或者钱天一能够直接战胜主要对手，对她们来说也是不小的�£�练。”

在队内选拔赛结束后，中国乒协将在官网公布成都世乒赛团体赛男子5 名、女子 4 名获得资格运动员名单及 1 名女子候补资格运动员名单。9 月 11 日，最终选拔结果将在中国乒乓球协会官网进行公示。

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Replies:

Posted By: kindof99
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 12:19pm

The news is that many countries have not decided whether to participate for the tournament due to the china pandemic policies. Staying in a room for 7+ days is no fun.

Also air tickets to china are crazily expensive..

-------------
/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale

Posted By: kindof99
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 12:23pm

With only 36 days left, WTT website still has not shown which country will play:

https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2535" rel="nofollow - https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2535

-------------
/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 12:50pm

kindof99 wrote:

The news is that many countries have not decided whether to participate for the tournament due to the china pandemic policies. Staying in a room for 7+ days is no fun.

Also air tickets to china are crazily expensive..

I know people going (long haul fligt) that is arriving around 3 or 4 days before the tournament (same as pre-covid tournament scheduling)

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 12:52pm

kindof99 wrote:

With only 36 days left, WTT website still has not shown which country will play:

https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2535" rel="nofollow - https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2535

Since there is no individual world ranking points up for grabs, the value of the teams tournament is highly affected.

You know, everything ITTF/WTT is doing is so "ranking" point orientated nowadays.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 1:27pm

The WTTC awards so many points for team ranking. This edition will have bearing on WTTC 2024, which will decide the draw of the team event at Paris 2024. Teams that choose not to play are dumb.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 1:31pm

zeio wrote:

The WTTC awards so many points for team ranking. This edition will have bearing on WTTC 2024, which will decide the draw of the team event at Paris 2024. Teams that choose not to play are dumb.

So they will all pitch for WTTC 2024 then.

anyways, each country has they own plans.

ITTF/WTT, 1 month to go and no players list, what in the world hey?

Some places I know, team was only confirmed this week, and they just started visa application. Very very late.

Btw. you talking about seeding, at Paris.
that is not qualification for Paris.
A lot will happen in 2 years.

Maybe they need more teams world tours now, as there is now a teams working ranking that is not related to individuals....

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 1:34pm

They will have to start from the bottom. Ever wonder why there is the word "Finals" attached at the end now?

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 1:47pm

zeio wrote:

They will have to start from the bottom. Ever wonder why there is the word "Finals" attached at the end now?

Some players don't care to be honest.

I was called upon to verify this with my friends in the top circles on points.
And some players are opting to rest.

I understand the reasoning for change, like Feng keeps getting more points than say Chinese players.

But if you take individual out, it leaves very little left for the individual, other than national pride or North Korean yes sir style approach

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 1:57pm

Oh, you mean the small potatoes.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 2:28pm

zeio wrote:

Oh, you mean the small potatoes.

haha, you calling them small

you a big shot guy hey. Tell me, who are you again?

You ready to go public?

Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 08/24/2022 at 3:01pm

kindof99 wrote:

The news is that many countries have not decided whether to participate for the tournament due to the china pandemic policies. Staying in a room for 7+ days is no fun.

Also air tickets to china are crazily expensive..

Hi,

Recently I was asked to accompany an aspiring U.S. boy to China as his personal coach for some intense training opportunities. Though it would have been a wonderful trip, I declined due to the Chinese Covid protocols being more than a bit too much both coming and going.

From a Covid perspective, (embracing the Covid view that I have,) China must be the worst country in the world to travel to.

Thanks.

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 08/31/2022 at 7:05am

Teams with members announced that I'm aware of. Haven't checked the others.
China - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1130718&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1130718" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1130718&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1130718
FZD/ML/LJK/WCQ/TBD
SYS/CM/WMY/WYD/TBD

Japan - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124892&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124892" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124892&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124892
Togami/Miwa's brother/Oikawa/Yokotani/Niwa
Ito/Hayata/Nagasaki/Kihara/Sato

South Korea - https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91652&PID=1126089&title=ktta-2022-asian-games-cum-wttc-qualifier-4-1824#1126089" rel="nofollow - https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91652&PID=1126089&title=ktta-2022-asian-games-cum-wttc-qualifier-4-1824#1126089
JWJ, CDS, AJH, Hwang Minha, CSM
JJH, Kim Nayeong, Lee Zion, Yoon Hyobin, Kim Hayeong

Canada - https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/
https://ttcanada.ca/selection-for-2022-world-team-championships/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/selection-for-2022-world-team-championships/
Eugene Wang/Jeremy Hazin/Edward Ly/HongTao Chen/Max J.L. Ji/Siméon Martin/Mattew Lehmann, Alternates 1: Zexuan Wang 2: Tommy Xu
Mo Zhang/Ivy Gui Hua Liao/Ching Nam Fu/May Tong/Sophie Gauthier/Jessie Xu/ Katherine Morin/Crystal Liu/Fiona Jiayi Nie, Alternates 1: Judy Zhong 2: Daisy Zhang
Edward Ly, Aaron Zexuan Wang, David Xu
Crystal Liu, Ivy Liao, Fiona Jiayi Nie, May Tong Hui (player/coach)

Germany is more concerned with bargaining with ITTF than announcing their team members - https://www.sport1.de/news/tischtennis/2022/08/wm-anreise-von-boll-und-co-nach-china-ungeklart" rel="nofollow - https://www.sport1.de/news/tischtennis/2022/08/wm-anreise-von-boll-und-co-nach-china-ungeklart

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: balldance
Date Posted: 08/31/2022 at 9:02am

Japan select Akira Yokoya (not sure if the translation is correct) WR 415 in the men team. Who is he? Never heard of him before.

Posted By: Pondus
Date Posted: 08/31/2022 at 10:16am

balldance wrote:

Japan select Akira Yokoya (not sure if the translation is correct) WR 415 in the men team. Who is he? Never heard of him before.

I believe he generally goes by Yokotani Jo in Roman. He's part of the younger up and coming crop of Japanese players - twenty years old. I'm sure someone here with more insight can give you more information about him.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 08/31/2022 at 11:47pm

Chinese Taipei - https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/20221205460.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/20221205460.jpg
111年度中華桌球國手排名賽
暨參加2022年世界團體桌球桌球錦標賽
暨參加2022年亞洲運動會中華�£表隊選拔賽成績表
LYJ/CCY/Liao Cheng-Ting/Huang Yan-Cheng/Peng Wang-Wei
CIC/CSY/Liu Hsing-Yin/Li Yu-Jhun/Huang Yi-Hua

Sweden -
https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/HerrarnastrupptillBordtennis-VMiKina/" rel="nofollow - https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/HerrarnastrupptillBordtennis-VMiKina/
https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/DamernasVM-trupp/" rel="nofollow - https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/DamernasVM-trupp/
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/herrarnas-trupp-till-bordtennis-vm-3200760" rel="nofollow - https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/herrarnas-trupp-till-bordtennis-vm-3200760
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/damernas-vm-trupp-3198946" rel="nofollow - https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/damernas-vm-trupp-3198946
Moregard/Kalsson/Kallberg/Falck/Persson
Bergstrom/Kallberg/Filippa Bergand/Matilda Hansson, Reserve: Rebecca Muskantor

India - http://ttfi.org/news/show/1119" rel="nofollow - http://ttfi.org/news/show/1119
G Sathiyan, Sanil Shetty, Harmeet Desai, Manush Shah and Manav Thakkar
Manika Batra, Sreeja Akula, Reeth Rishya, Diya Chitale and Swastika Ghosh

zeio wrote:

Teams with members announced that I'm aware of. Haven't checked the others.
China - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1130718&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1130718" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1130718&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1130718
FZD/ML/LJK/WCQ/TBD
SYS/CM/WMY/WYD/TBD

Japan - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124892&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124892" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124892&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124892
Togami/Miwa's brother/Oikawa/Yokotani/Niwa
Ito/Hayata/Nagasaki/Kihara/Sato

South Korea - https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91652&PID=1126089&title=ktta-2022-asian-games-cum-wttc-qualifier-4-1824#1126089" rel="nofollow - https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91652&PID=1126089&title=ktta-2022-asian-games-cum-wttc-qualifier-4-1824#1126089
JWJ, CDS, AJH, Hwang Minha, CSM
JJH, Kim Nayeong, Lee Zion, Yoon Hyobin, Kim Hayeong

Canada - https://ttcanada.ca/selection-for-2022-world-team-championships/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/selection-for-2022-world-team-championships/
Eugene Wang/Jeremy Hazin/Edward Ly/HongTao Chen/Max J.L. Ji/Siméon Martin/Mattew Lehmann, Alternates 1: Zexuan Wang 2: Tommy Xu
Mo Zhang/Ivy Gui Hua Liao/Ching Nam Fu/May Tong/Sophie Gauthier/Jessie Xu/ Katherine Morin/Crystal Liu/Fiona Jiayi Nie, Alternates 1: Judy Zhong 2: Daisy Zhang

Germany is more concerned with bargaining with ITTF than announcing their team members - https://www.sport1.de/news/tischtennis/2022/08/wm-anreise-von-boll-und-co-nach-china-ungeklart" rel="nofollow - https://www.sport1.de/news/tischtennis/2022/08/wm-anreise-von-boll-und-co-nach-china-ungeklart

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 12:47am

https://www.francsjeux.com/breves/une-bulle-sanitaire-pour-les-mondiaux-2022" rel="nofollow - https://www.francsjeux.com/breves/une-bulle-sanitaire-pour-les-mondiaux-2022

Sans surprise, les Chinois ont pris la décision d’envelopper la compétition dans une bulle sanitaire comparable à celle mise en place aux Jeux d’hiver de Pékin 2022. Elle est censée accueillir un millier de personnes. Des vols spéciaux ont été affrétés. A leur arrivée, les accrédités venus de l’étranger seront exemptés de quarantaine. La compétition sera organisée au nouveau centre sportif high-tech de Chengdu, construit l’an passé. Les Mondiaux de tennis de table 2022 seront les sixièmes de l’histoire à se dérouler en Chine, mais les premiers dans la ville de Chengdu.

Unsurprisingly, the Chinese have taken the decision to wrap the competition in a health bubble comparable to that set up at the Beijing 2022 Winter Games. It is supposed to accommodate a thousand people. Special flights have been chartered. On their arrival, accredited persons from abroad will be exempt from quarantine. The competition will be held at the new high-tech sports center in Chengdu, built last year. The 2022 Table Tennis Worlds will be the sixth in history to take place in China, but the first in the city of Chengdu.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 1:34am

zeio wrote:

https://www.francsjeux.com/breves/une-bulle-sanitaire-pour-les-mondiaux-2022" rel="nofollow - https://www.francsjeux.com/breves/une-bulle-sanitaire-pour-les-mondiaux-2022

Yeah, Chengdu is officially in lockdown

20 million people in they own bubble at home.

Thanks to 157 new cases yesterday

I wonder what will happen when one of the visiting teams show up as positive....

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 1:36am

zeio wrote:

Oh, you mean the small potatoes.

do we have a list of zeio's small potatoes not going yet?

Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 5:25am

It's starting to smell like cancellation.....

Would be better if organized in Europe (Germany, Germany or....Germany for instance)

-------------
Matador ST, Skyline 2 National 35° 2,15mm, Superstop 1,9mm

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 7:21am

ZApenholder wrote:

zeio wrote:

https://www.francsjeux.com/breves/une-bulle-sanitaire-pour-les-mondiaux-2022" rel="nofollow - https://www.francsjeux.com/breves/une-bulle-sanitaire-pour-les-mondiaux-2022

Yeah, Chengdu is officially in lockdown

20 million people in they own bubble at home.

Thanks to 157 new cases yesterday

I wonder what will happen when one of the visiting teams show up as positive....

My sympathies are with the local population. These lockdowns that pop up from city to city due to zero Covid policy are insane. I can't imagine the people being too happy about being fenced into their own homes/apartments/neighborhoods. Then, there's the daily testing having to stand in line for hours during a heatwave with 40C (104F) temperatures not to mention the economic disaster that it is.

Hopefully, the visiting players/staff can get in and get out ASAP if the event proceeds.

Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 12:51pm

I do not understand why things are so lax in the USA where we can go by unprotected in buses (I still wear a mask anywhere I go like a few people because I am a bit paranoid about it) and why China is so strict. It's not like the virus is more virulent there, right? why would a strict "Wear your mask" policy not work for them?

-------------
/forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 1:07pm

stiltt wrote:

I do not understand why things are so lax in the USA where we can go by unprotected in buses (I still wear a mask anywhere I go like a few people because I am a bit paranoid about it) and why China is so strict. It's not like the virus is more virulent there, right? why would a strict "Wear your mask" policy not work for them?

you not the only one, lots of Asian still wear masks.

Especially at WTT events.

I think if you want to be extra careful, then good. It is like the habit of washing your hands first before eating. I know many adults who don't wash their hands, since they think germs won't kill them.

Why China so strict... I guess they at a stage where, they can't loose and agree to the peoples demand. This will be seen as a weakness.
They can't allow or confirm the fact of "gov making the wrong decision" before. They still punting that Covid Zero is the right thing to do and saying how the west or even Taiwan is bound to have millions of death for relaxed protocols.

So, i'm not sure for how many years will they continue for zero policy.
but they should not be hosting any international sport events until they are ready to allow free flow of everything.

I agree, should of have it in Germany. Euro champs was so nice having crowds!

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/01/2022 at 1:14pm

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Hopefully, the visiting players/staff can get in and get out ASAP if the event proceeds.

Chengdu will have 4 days of testing now...

The last time they said 4 days, it ended up what. like 2 months?

The people are not happy, or atleast the ones that I know are not happy, who went through the last lockdown few month ago.
News says there is food parcels for all. I know people that didn't get any - because they are not "locals", so not on the distribution list. This is where money is important.

I think if you have a confirmed end date, you could mentally get ready for it. But the no end date extension last time, really hurt a lot of people

Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 1:00am

ZApenholder wrote:

you not the only one, lots of Asian still wear masks.

Especially at WTT events.

So, i'm not sure for how many years will they continue for zero policy.
but they should not be hosting any international sport events until they are ready to allow free flow of everything.

I agree, should of have it in Germany. Euro champs was so nice having crowds!

because the millions of deaths happened indeed.... the global count is 6+ million and counting....

-------------
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 1:12am

blahness wrote:

because the millions of deaths happened indeed.... the global count is 6+ million and counting....

No, you misunderstood.

Taiwan lifted covid protocols slightly few months ago and decided to not follow covid zero.

So China said Taiwan will have millions of death for making such stupid move, a move that is based on western ways of doing things.

The millions of death you have is total accumulated world wide death right?

Chinese gov view is Taiwan's 23 million people will have few million deaths for not following covid zero, and this is now maybe 6 months+ now.
Year to date is 9000 deaths sadly.... But China's scientist says it will be in the millions for Taiwan.

So if they use the same calculation from the Chinese experts for China, we talking about that the CCP is forecasting hundreds of millions of death if they give up covid zero.....
Of course we not sure how many have died of hunger or suicides...

It will take someone very brave in China to step up and say, Covid Zero cannot be a long term plan.
or if they want to do it, is to forfeit rights to hosting international events.
Less then 4 weeks to go for an already postponed tournament.

Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 2:37am

The Chinese healthcare system is even more underequipped than the USA (which is already quite bad) imo... they wouldn't be able to handle the Covid spike without massive deaths and panics, which is why they're forced into this Covid 0 policy of relying on enforced social distancing. It is after all still a developing country with a massive population...

That said, even in Australia it's like 50 ppl dying every single day - it's just not reported in the news media nor does anyone care about it... There are real human costs to every policy decision.

-------------
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 11:59am

Things are starting to unravel...

https://www.whatsonweibo.com/chengdu-city-wide-lockdown-sparks-panic-buying-and-worries/" rel="nofollow - Chengdu City-Wide ‘Lockdown’ Sparks Panic Buying and Worries

Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 12:15pm

blahness wrote:

That said, even in Australia it's like 50 ppl dying every single day - it's just not reported in the news media nor does anyone care about it... There are real human costs to every policy decision.

This. But what is the Australia base death rate if you think this number is correct?

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release" rel="nofollow - https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

The world's governments for some reason seems to have lost the ability to make principled decisions and have this idea that they can solve problems that are fundamental to human nature.

-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Joola Vyzaryz Trinity
FH: GT
BH: GT
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 6:16pm

No one from Canada will/should go as ttcanada stated, it will be "self-funded" as with most events players have to attend to represent Canada.

Canada is following the USA removing all restrictions against covid-19, China will take notice of this and it does not fare well for players trying to enter China.

Also for the Canadian Teams - controversy on selections as "punishment" Clown

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 7:11pm

I do not understand why things are so lax in the USA where we can go by unprotected in buses

For human beings to wear masks that allows them to breathe and not suffocate, the gaps between the threads of the mask material must be a minimum of 500 microns in diameter. The COVID-19 virus is 5 microns in size. The aerosol particle that carries it around air borne is 50 microns in size, which is 10 times smaller than the gaps in the mask, the device that is intended to block the aerosol particle.

That is why the laxity.

Thanks.

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.

Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 7:49pm

DonnOlsen wrote:

I do not understand why things are so lax in the USA where we can go by unprotected in buses

That is why the laxity.

Thanks.

Americans who care about mask-wearing almost universally have had two to four vaccine injections, with a new bivalent vaccine for Omicron 4/5 right around the corner. So we are not unprotected on buses or anywhere else, unless we choose to be.

That is why the laxity. Thanks.

Posted By: JediJesseS
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 10:15pm

DonnOlsen wrote:

That is why the laxity.

Thanks.

Total nonsense.

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 10:30pm

We less then 4 weeks to go.

Where is the players list?

Has any other World championship tournament prior to modern internet age with less than 4 weeks to go having no player list updated yet (covid or not, this is super late).

This is an ITTF event, no idea why the event page is on WTT.

WTT seem to be struggling with a lot of back end things - especially more technical aspects like camera/satellite feed info to TV broadcasters (all last min announcement). This should have no relations to covid at all, it is all just part of planning and scheduling (won't talk about the WTT schedule and its super short notice there too)

so does that mean we must change World TT to Last Min TT (WTT to LMTT)?

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 10:51pm

The non-woven fabric used to make the surgical masks comes with electrostatic charge that is added during manufacturing. That's how it "catches" virus that's ~0.1 microns in size while letting air particles through.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/02/2022 at 11:11pm

Selection trial for the 5th member starting today at the Chengdu training base.
https://weibo.com/1498760141/M3V2fayIo" rel="nofollow - https://weibo.com/1498760141/M3V2fayIo

zeio wrote:

CTTA has just announced the selection criteria for the 5 team members.

Direct entry for the top 4 players by 2022 Week 34 of ITTF TTWR. The top 50 players and those who have participated in the singles of WTT FEE/CT/SCT 2022 and WTT SCT/CS/FEE ESS 2022, or 6 men and 7 women, will fight for the last spots.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_MS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_MS.html
MT
FZD, ML, LJK, WCQ
Round-robin, BO5 - LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_WS.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_34_SEN_WS.html
WT
SYS, CM, WMY, WYD
Fan Siqi, Zhang Rui, Liu Weishan, Kuai Man, CXT, HZJ, QTY
Unlike the 6 men, the 7 women will be divided into 2 groups - domestic and overseas:
Fan Siqi, Zhang Rui, Liu Weishan, Kuai Man, and HZJ will take part in a round-robin, BO5, in which the winner will become the "candidate 5th player".
CXT and QTY will compete at the https://mytabletennis.net/forum/wtt-contender-muscat-2022-9-410_topic92148.html" rel="nofollow - WTT Contender Muscat 2022 , and if either of them wins the singles title, then that player will become the "5th player", or else the "candidate 5th player" will become the "5th player".

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/03/2022 at 7:38am

LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao

Now that's a round robin! One can only guess who will win it.

I will predict that LGY will not win the group.

Thanks.

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.

Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 09/03/2022 at 8:33am

ZApenholder wrote:

We less then 4 weeks to go.

Where is the players list?

Has any other World championship tournament prior to modern internet age with less than 4 weeks to go having no player list updated yet (covid or not, this is super late).

This is an ITTF event, no idea why the event page is on WTT.

so does that mean we must change World TT to Last Min TT (WTT to LMTT)?

Maybe it's a deliberate strategy, add some drama with last minute reveal?

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/03/2022 at 8:40am

DonnOlsen wrote:

LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao

Now that's a round robin! One can only guess who will win it.

I will predict that LGY will not win the group.

Thanks.

It's a domestic tournament, and he's the most skilled player of the bunch so I will make the opposite predicton.

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/03/2022 at 9:25am

BRS wrote:

ZApenholder wrote:

We less then 4 weeks to go.

Where is the players list?

Has any other World championship tournament prior to modern internet age with less than 4 weeks to go having no player list updated yet (covid or not, this is super late).

This is an ITTF event, no idea why the event page is on WTT.

so does that mean we must change World TT to Last Min TT (WTT to LMTT)?

Maybe it's a deliberate strategy, add some drama with last minute reveal?

With the players list, maybe.

But for the rest, it just feels there is poor planing.
Remember the Hungary tournament 2 months ago?

2 months prior it was announced

1 month to go, the tournament was canceled and changed to 3 smaller ones

Imagine your major golf/tennis events gets announced 60 days, and 30 days it get canceled and 3 smaller one replaces it.

I think if the same happened with a normal school activity, it will get some stares from upset parents who spent money already. Here we talking about a world class organization, supposedly having the best of the best running the show.

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/04/2022 at 10:46am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

DonnOlsen wrote:

LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao

Now that's a round robin! One can only guess who will win it.

I will predict that LGY will not win the group.

Thanks.

It's a domestic tournament, and he's the most skilled player of the bunch so I will make the opposite predicton.

From https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856

World #8 Lin Gaoyuan completes #TeamChina Men’s lineup for #ITTFWorlds2022 after winning the Chinese internal selection tournament!

See you in Chengdu!

#WTT #Chengdu2022 #TableTennis #PingPong #LinGaoyuan

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 12:58am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

From https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856

World #8 Lin Gaoyuan completes #TeamChina Men’s lineup for #ITTFWorlds2022 after winning the Chinese internal selection tournament!

See you in Chengdu!

#WTT #Chengdu2022 #TableTennis #PingPong #LinGaoyuan

Seems like WTT's message to the world is, Chengdu is still on

But they not able to update the event page on their sites.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 4:40am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

DonnOlsen wrote:

LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao

Now that's a round robin! One can only guess who will win it.

I will predict that LGY will not win the group.

Thanks.

It's a domestic tournament, and he's the most skilled player of the bunch so I will make the opposite predicton.

From https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856

World #8 Lin Gaoyuan completes #TeamChina Men’s lineup for #ITTFWorlds2022 after winning the Chinese internal selection tournament!

See you in Chengdu!

#WTT #Chengdu2022 #TableTennis #PingPong #LinGaoyuan

Honestly, what were people expecting? You knew who was gonna win the moment ZQH was excluded and sent over to Europe. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131112&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131112" rel="nofollow - It's just like Ito , LGY had to win or else he should retire.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22527-Road-to-Tokyo-2020-Chinese-TT-Team&p=345567&viewfull=1#post345567" rel="nofollow - https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22527-Road-to-Tokyo-2020-Chinese-TT-Team&p=345567&viewfull=1#post345567

CNT: We zone in/narrow down on the candidates AND THEN we come up with the selection criteriA 😉 that fit them to a T.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 6:21am

zeio wrote:

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

DonnOlsen wrote:

LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao

Now that's a round robin! One can only guess who will win it.

I will predict that LGY will not win the group.

Thanks.

It's a domestic tournament, and he's the most skilled player of the bunch so I will make the opposite predicton.

From https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856

World #8 Lin Gaoyuan completes #TeamChina Men’s lineup for #ITTFWorlds2022 after winning the Chinese internal selection tournament!

See you in Chengdu!

#WTT #Chengdu2022 #TableTennis #PingPong #LinGaoyuan

CNT: We zone in/narrow down on the candidates AND THEN we come up with the selection criteriA 😉 that fit them to a T.

The Japanese system of placing the player you most recently lost to furthest away that apacible discovered I think is a reasonable measure to prevent a player from repeatedly getting drawn near the strongest player.

I don't really follow LGY and he's a bit older so I won't comment on his situation. But you said Mima Ito should retire after her loss to WMY at the WTT Champions. I don't know if you're just trolling for a response (in which case okay, haha, I got trolled). But in the off chance that you're not, she's 21 years old. I realize she's been around for a while, but for most players, their careers are just getting off the ground at 21. There's no way she should be retiring (unless she has some career ending injury or disease we don't know about). So she lost to WMY 0-3 at WTT Champions. Big deal. Just the week or so before that she was right there with WMY losing at 9-11 in the 5th of a best of 5. No one else has beaten the big 4 from China this year either. What can you say? They're just really, really good.

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 7:07am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

No one else has beaten the big 4 from China this year either. What can you say? They're just really, really good.

Everyone else should retire too Wink

Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 9:17am

zeio wrote:

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

DonnOlsen wrote:

LGY, Xiang Peng, Yuan Licen, Liu Dingshuo, Lin Shidong, Zhao Zihao

Now that's a round robin! One can only guess who will win it.

I will predict that LGY will not win the group.

Thanks.

It's a domestic tournament, and he's the most skilled player of the bunch so I will make the opposite predicton.

From https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/WTTGlobal/status/1566435842658553856

World #8 Lin Gaoyuan completes #TeamChina Men’s lineup for #ITTFWorlds2022 after winning the Chinese internal selection tournament!

See you in Chengdu!

#WTT #Chengdu2022 #TableTennis #PingPong #LinGaoyuan

CNT: We zone in/narrow down on the candidates AND THEN we come up with the selection criteriA 😉 that fit them to a T.

Golly gee, I took the field and still missed the prediction. I wonder if Lin Gaoyuan is one of those players who always beats the lesser developed players and always loses to the more developed players?

-------------
Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 9:57am

France - https://www.fftt.com/site/actualites/2022-09-03/la-selection-pour-championnats-monde-par-equipes" rel="nofollow - https://www.fftt.com/site/actualites/2022-09-03/la-selection-pour-championnats-monde-par-equipes
Simon Gauzy/Emmanuel Lebesson/Alexis Lebrun/Félix Lebrun
Pauline Chasselin/Charlotte Lutz/Prithika Pavade/Jia Nan Yuan

zeio wrote:

Chinese Taipei - https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/20221205460.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/20221205460.jpg
111年度中華桌球國手排名賽
暨參加2022年世界團體桌球桌球錦標賽
暨參加2022年亞洲運動會中華�£表隊選拔賽成績表
LYJ/CCY/Liao Cheng-Ting/Huang Yan-Cheng/Peng Wang-Wei
CIC/CSY/Liu Hsing-Yin/Li Yu-Jhun/Huang Yi-Hua

Sweden -
https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/HerrarnastrupptillBordtennis-VMiKina/" rel="nofollow - https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/HerrarnastrupptillBordtennis-VMiKina/
https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/DamernasVM-trupp/" rel="nofollow - https://www.svenskbordtennis.com/Nyheter/Pingisnytt/DamernasVM-trupp/
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/herrarnas-trupp-till-bordtennis-vm-3200760" rel="nofollow - https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/herrarnas-trupp-till-bordtennis-vm-3200760
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/damernas-vm-trupp-3198946" rel="nofollow - https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/svenska-bordtennisfoerbundet/pressreleases/damernas-vm-trupp-3198946
Moregard/Kalsson/Kallberg/Falck/Persson
Bergstrom/Kallberg/Filippa Bergand/Matilda Hansson, Reserve: Rebecca Muskantor

India - http://ttfi.org/news/show/1119" rel="nofollow - http://ttfi.org/news/show/1119
G Sathiyan, Sanil Shetty, Harmeet Desai, Manush Shah and Manav Thakkar
Manika Batra, Sreeja Akula, Reeth Rishya, Diya Chitale and Swastika Ghosh

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: kindof99
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 10:59am

FYI， ChengDu is still in lockdown. Not sure what will happen....

-------------
/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 2:11pm

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

I'll keep this short. I got http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1130309&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1130309" rel="nofollow - Ito's own word 9 days after I first made that statement. The score wasn't the problem. It was her attitude. Ishikawa also displayed that attitude around the same age in mid-2014 and then went on a losing streak against the CNT, any players, young and old, until late 2017. And between age 21-24, she lost to MANY non-CNT players from East Asia and Europe. If you have looked at the age of Japanese pro players who retired early, you would have a different perspective. Misaki Morizono said in an interview %5burl=https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/18899" rel="nofollow - many players retire at the age of 25 or 26 . https://rallys.online/read/210908maedamiyu-retire/" rel="nofollow - Maeda is one such example , among many others. In fact, age is not the problem, either. I started bashing Ishikawa when she was 23 and http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77500&PID=958124&title=2016-ittf-world-tour-swedish-open#958124" rel="nofollow - I stated that potential was her problem instead of age. Ito is starting to max out her potential.

Another point. Ito has been really selfish by pulling out of the WT of Asian Games 2022 just because it didn't offer any selection trial points. Look at Kihara. What https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91664&PID=1126167&title=2022-wtt-feeder-usa-fremont-5-3-westchester-5-10#1126167" rel="nofollow - she said at the start of 2022 also rings so hollow now.

“In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.”

― Jordan B. Peterson

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 6:24pm

They locked down all of Chengdu earlier this week. 20+ million people. Will it stay that way for a month in time for the tournament? Even if there is still a lockdown, would the government let a TT tournament take place anyway? These days, who knows? I've visited there several times, last time about ~5 years ago (my wife is from that general area). As Chinese cities go, I like it a lot. Great street food everywhere. Well, there used to be. Who knows after this? Neither my wife or I are very optimistic about the prospect of ever going back.

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 6:49pm

zeio wrote:

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

“In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.”

― Jordan B. Peterson

Fair enough. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I still believe at a minimum she's top 3 in Japan and look forward to seeing what she can do in the next 5 years or so.

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 9:13pm

Baal wrote:

They locked down all of Chengdu earlier this week. 20+ million people. Will it stay that way for a month in time for the tournament? Even if there is still a lockdown, would the government let a TT tournament take place anyway? These days, who knows? I've visited there several times, last time about ~5 years ago (my wife is from that general area). As Chinese cities go, I like it a lot. Great street food everywhere. Well, there used to be. Who knows after this? Neither my wife or I are very optimistic about the prospect of ever going back.

Dainton commented:

“I want to thank the Chinese Table Tennis Association, the Local Organising Committee, and the City of Chengdu for making this event happen. I also want to thank the Member Associations and participants for their patience, understanding and support. We understand the preparation and the logistics towards this event are like no other.”
“Our priority is to provide all necessary information to the participants to ensure they have an enjoyable and memorable World Championships experience. We will need the cooperation of everyone involved, so it was important to take the time today to explain our plans, answer all questions, and get everybody on board.
“We also wanted to reassure everyone following the tightening of COVID-19 countermeasures in Chengdu; preparation for the event continues as planned without delay. I will travel to Chengdu in two days to ensure seamless cooperation until the end of the countdown.
“The situation is similar to #RESTART, the series of events we hosted in China in November 2020. This time again, there is concern but, ultimately, we will deliver our World Championships in Chengdu.”

source: https://www.ittf.com/2022/09/06/ittf-hosts-information-session-2022-ittf-world-championships-participants/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/2022/09/06/ittf-hosts-information-session-2022-ittf-world-championships-participants/

**there was also an 8.0 earthquake yesterday in Sichuan that had buildings shaking in Chengdu yesterday, Sichuan is an earthquake region.

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/05/2022 at 11:25pm

Lets just hope the the people's right from lockdown is soften by the time international athletes set foot in the city.
Morally speaking, I wonder what the athletes will feel if they go into a lockdown land of Q4 2022 and having a tournament while 20m+ are locked at home.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:20am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Fair enough. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I still believe at a minimum she's top 3 in Japan and look forward to seeing what she can do in the next 5 years or so.

That won't cut it. Ito will just turn into another Ishikawa that gets in the way of teammates, which she is already doing to Hayata. Her stated goal in 1/2022 is to beat China in singles and doubles. And http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91465&PID=1124874&title=wtt-singapore-smash-2022-03-0703-20#1124874" rel="nofollow - what kind of attitude did she display at Singapore Smash? She was the one who said " https://www.sankei.com/article/20211130-TGF7VH5YJRI43AXOLXH5XPWPDM/" rel="nofollow - other than winning, everything else is meaningless " at WTTC 2021.

Anyone can be the top 3 of Japan at this point if losing to China does not matter. But then, why do you think JTTA decided to add selection trial points for beating CNT players? Tasei even said it directly, the selection trial " http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1130369&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1130369" rel="nofollow - is not about playing at Paris 2024. It's about getting the gold medal. "

In recent interviews, Hayata has always mentioned her regret about losing to CM at WTT CS ESS. That's the kind of attitude Tasei is looking for as a coach.

I have to stress that I'm speaking from the POV of JNT.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 7:22am

zeio wrote:

She had a bad tournament (Singapore Smash) losing to Jia Nan Yuan. It happens and I'm sure she was frustrated about it, but since then she's played much, much better. I'm not going to form my opinion of Mima based on what some 5ch users said about her. And of course she wants to beat China. In order to beat China and on the highest stage, you have to make top 3 in Japan. And as for getting in the way, if you're not good enough to beat Ishikawa [Edit: in a multi-tournament race.. not h2h] then perhaps you don't deserve to be in the Olympics. This is actually happening now as she's not currently in the top 3. But I give credit to Ishikawa for fighting tooth and nail to make the team. And you saw the same from Mima. That's what you want to see from all of the players.

Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:21am

The Quotes of Wisdom pertinent to the case.

-- Life is a harmful thing. Living will cause you to die sooner or later.

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 10:26am

What lockdown in Chengdu is for foreigners there...

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:03am

You guys know, there is something super special about Chinese people/China.
They don't get affected by Covid to be honest, so there is no need for any more lockdown.

Since Dec 2019 or so, till date.

For almost 3 years, collectively, China only has 245k active cases and 5226 deaths.

Wuhan only has 50k cases and 3869 death.
China has over 1.4 billion people. Wuhan has 11m, Hubei prov is near 60m

Honestly, if the stats are true, there is really no need to lock down. The active case per million is 170 people inside almost 3 years, with 4 people dying per million inside this period.

Comparison to say:
Japan, 155k/m cases, 329/m death.
Germany, 382k/m cases, 1753/m death
China, 170/m cases, 4/m death

China's figure is only beaten by Western Sahara with 16/m cases and 2/m deaths (pop is only 629k)

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:05pm

Just have to see if there will be a lockdown extension after September 7...also the same time Japan will be announcing re-opening to tourists...maybe Dainton is the new President of China and has allowed it LOL

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:49pm

However you want to read into this one...(there will be NO selection process)

The Canadian Team headed to Chengdu...

https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 11:11am

Is the USATT going to boycott the WTTTC event in Chengdu in support of an independent Taiwan, tossing UN recognition of China's One Country Policy and the recent 50th Anniversary of Ping Pong Diplomacy (was it just a farce by USATT showing support?)

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 12:00pm

Charlie Brown wrote:

Is the USATT going to boycott the WTTTC event in Chengdu in support of an independent Taiwan, tossing UN recognition of China's One Country Policy and the recent 50th Anniversary of Ping Pong Diplomacy (was it just a farce by USATT showing support?)

Is Canada boycotting?

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 1:27pm

jfolsen wrote:

Is Canada boycotting?

Did you read page 2?

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 1:46pm

Charlie Brown wrote:

jfolsen wrote:

Is Canada boycotting?

Did you read page 2?

My question was rhetorical. You seem to be holding the USA to a standard you aren't holding Canada to. As for ping pong diplomacy, the Canadian team visited China before the US team did back in 1971.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:57pm

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

She had a bad tournament (Singapore Smash) losing to Jia Nan Yuan. It happens and I'm sure she was frustrated about it, but since then she's played much, much better. I'm not going to form my opinion of Mima based on what some 5ch users said about her. And of course she wants to beat China. In order to beat China and on the highest stage, you have to make top 3 in Japan. And as for getting in the way, if you're not good enough to beat Ishikawa [Edit: in a multi-tournament race.. not h2h] then perhaps you don't deserve to be in the Olympics. This is actually happening now as she's not currently in the top 3. But I give credit to Ishikawa for fighting tooth and nail to make the team. And you saw the same from Mima. That's what you want to see from all of the players.

It was more than just losing in the singles of a bad tournament. She was losing left and right at that point. She's played much, much better http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131253&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131253" rel="nofollow - since last week(9/2022) with a fixed draw .

The fact that she started playing XD again says it all. Why did she join the T. League? Things were not going well both at home and abroad as she told reporters.

Was Hirano even top 3 of Japan when she was 1 game away from beating CM back at WTTC 2021? How did Ishikawa fare against CM in the next round? Hirano never beat Ishikawa before the All-Japan Championships 2017(1/2017), yet she won the World Cup(10/2016) by beating Samara, Ito, FTW, CIC, whom Ishikawa always had problem beating. Don't you think someone was getting in the way?

Oh, it's about the Olympics. https://i.imgur.com/MuDqrqR.png" rel="nofollow - Ishikawa always had trouble beating YMY. https://i.imgur.com/h6zMiaO.png" rel="nofollow - Hirano lost to her as well in 2021(who cares if she had matchpoint first in G5). https://i.imgur.com/XvsPZX4.png" rel="nofollow - Hayata lost to her in 2016, 2017, 2018. https://i.imgur.com/HoL4zJL.png" rel="nofollow - Shibata beat her in 2019. Perhaps Shibata deserved Ishikawa's spot more than either 2 of the then top 3? When that top 3 couldn't even run into China, not once but twice, is there any meaning to the term top 3?

01/2022
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202201270000627.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202201270000627.html
Ito: I have graduated from mixed doubles! No Jun, no Mima!! I will focus on defeating China in singles and doubles from now on!!!

03/2022
Loses 2-4 to Nagasaki in QF at LION CUP TOP32
Loses 1-3 to Yuan Jia Nan in R16 at Singapore Smash
Loses 0-3 to WMY/SYS in F at Singapore Smash

04/2022
Loses 2-4 to Kihara in Grp at Asian Games selection trial

05/2022
Signs up for XD w/ Uda at WTT FEE Fremont and WTT FEE Westchester to no avail

06/2022
First XD event w/ Uda at WTT CT Zagreb, loses 1-3 to Miwa's brother/Hayata in SF
Wins WD at WTT CT Zagreb after 3-1 Winter/Shan Xiaona in F
Wins WS at WTT CT Zagreb after 4-2 Hirano in F

07/2022
Second XD event w/ Uda at WTT SCT ESS, loses 2-3 to Miwa's brother/Hayata in R16
Loses 0-3 to SYS/WMY in F at WTT SCT ESS, after 3-2 CSY/LHC in SF and 3-2 JJH/YHE in QF
Joins the T.LEAGUE season 2022/2023

08/2022
Loses 3-4 to Shibata in QF at NOJIMA CUP

09/2022
Wins ZENNOH CUP after 4-0 Murata in R32, 4-0 Nomura in R16, 4-1 Kato in QF, 4-3 Hayata in SF, 4-0 Ishikawa in F

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 8:18pm

zeio wrote:

As you noted, she won the WTT Contender in June. So yeah, I'd say that's much, much better than losing at the Smash and yes I agree she had a rough start to the year. I think we also ought to give credit to Shibata for playing well beating Mima Ito and recently over Kihara. Shibata is a tough player for Mima as we saw at the WTTC. There's no shame in losing (9-11 I think?) in the 7th. Still it's a result far better than her earlier loss to Nagasaki where she struggled to manufacture points. She also played very well at the ESS Star Contender losing a very close match to WMY 9-11 in the 5th of a best of 5. I agree her subsequent 0-3 loss to WMY at WTT Champions was disappointing, but again ... the top Chinese women are really, really good. And of course her recent victory over HH who has been beating up all of the other Japanese women.

Regarding Ishikawa getting in the way of Hirano, Hirano knew what the stakes were for Tokyo singles. It was in Hirano's hand and she lost. That's not Ishikawa's fault. She did what she was trained to do, and I respect her never give up attitude both back then and now. I mean I like Hirano. She's got great potential, but she also has to get over some mental hurdles. I don't fault her for losing to Shibata at the Nojima Cup who was playing exceptional. Nor do I fault her for losing to HH at Zennoh Cup, but her subsequent losses to Hashimoto and Kato were disappointing. So it's sad that Hirano will miss top 5 for WC, but again, it was in her hands.

The Olympic race is ongoing and Shibata still has a chance as do many of the top players especially since points will double in 2023. Whether you agree with them or not, I think the JTTA has tried to make it as fair as possible. I don't know whether or not it'll work out for the best, but I give them credit for attempting to make it fair or at least what they think is fair.

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/07/2022 at 10:40pm

Mima's thoughts on T. League and Paris 2024:

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2022/09/08/t_1/" rel="nofollow - https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2022/09/08/t_1/

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 2:21am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

As you noted, she won the WTT Contender in June. So yeah, I'd say that's much, much better than losing at the Smash and yes I agree she had a rough start to the year. I think we also ought to give credit to Shibata for playing well beating Mima Ito and recently over Kihara. Shibata is a tough player for Mima as we saw at the WTTC. There's no shame in losing (9-11 I think?) in the 7th. Still it's a result far better than her earlier loss to Nagasaki where she struggled to manufacture points. She also played very well at the ESS Star Contender losing a very close match to WMY 9-11 in the 5th of a best of 5. I agree her subsequent 0-3 loss to WMY at WTT Champions was disappointing, but again ... the top Chinese women are really, really good. And of course her recent victory over HH who has been beating up all of the other Japanese women.

As I've stressed, anyone can be top 3 of Japan if losing to China doesn't matter.

03/2022
Kihara won WTT SCT Doha, without running into top CNT players.
06/2022
Ito won WTT CT Zagreb, without running into top CNT players.
Hirano won WTT FEE Otocec, without running into top CNT players.

What does that tell us? Any combination of the https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/05215407/c33547c965536300e4726f39e53275d8.pdf" rel="nofollow - top 5, 6, 7 even 8 on the scoreboard will suffice at Paris 2024. Refer to https://jtta.or.jp/tour/806#womenteam" rel="nofollow - ATTC 2021 .

In case I still haven't made myself clear, losing 2-3 to China is not a privilege exclusive to Ito as Hayata and Kihara at WTT CS ESS showed, which is http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91735&PID=1129189&title=european-summer-series-2022-7-1122#1129189" rel="nofollow - another point I was trying to make , besides Ito's attitude.

Ito must aim higher than that. She's the one who stated "other than winning, everything else is meaningless". Expecting anything less means we are going easy on her. Getting used to the thought of "losing to China is fine" is dangerous. Having another Ishikawa is redundant. See what I mean?

As for Ishikawa and Hirano, let's try a different analogy with Boll and Franziska. As https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?24713-2021-All-Japan-National-Championships&p=335135&viewfull=1#post335135" rel="nofollow - I predicted far ahead , Boll played like *bleep* at Tokyo 2020. Franziska should've played singles instead. But if I were to frame it the way you did, then Franziska didn't deserve it if he couldn't get past Boll, while ignoring his wins over XX at Singapore Smash and ML at WTT CS ESS. See the problem?

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 7:02am

Chengdu lockdown extended by a week Shocked

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinese-mega-city-chengdu-extends-lockdown-most-districts-covid-spreads-2022-09-08/

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 7:11am

zeio wrote:

It does matter both to the players and the JTTA. That's why they're doing these trials to find out who is going to come out on top. Even at this stage, none of them are guaranteed a spot on the Olympic team. As far as "losing is fine", Mima definitely is not okay with losing all the time. You could tell she was not that happy with the bronze at Tokyo. IN the article I linked to above she was quoted as saying she was 1% happy 99% frustrated after winning the bronze (that's the Google translation at least).

No one has beaten the top 4 of China this year, but it's a good sign at least that the 3 you mentioned at least came close. It would be depressing if they always lost 0-3 or 1-3. But there's a glimmer of hope at 2-3 with 6,8, and 9 points in the 5th for Kihara, Hayata, and Ito respectively. You can look at it as well they're always losing to China, or you can look at it as there's a chance of winning. I choose to look the latter. Prior to Athens, RSM always lost to Wang Hao in senior pro tournaments, but we all know what happened in Athens so I don't focus on all these losses.

For Boll's situation, it turned out badly. I'm not familiar with Germany's selection process tbh, but that's who they chose. And I'm sure if Boll had won a medal we'd all be praising how smart a decision it was.

Player selection is not an exact science. If the JTTA had reserved one spot for committee selection, I'd have no problem with that. In fact I argued as much on this forum for the team USA selection in Tokyo, but I was definitely in the minority. But JTTA has chosen this selection process and all of the top players know the rules and have a shot at the Olympics even now. Who knows what will happen? There's still a chance that Mima Ito does not make the Olympic team. I'd be sad for her if that happens, but I can't say the process wasn't fair to her or anyone else.

Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 5:32pm

"You guys know, there is something super special about Chinese people/China.
They don't get affected by Covid to be honest, so there is no need for any more lockdown."

I would be very skeptical about the statistics coming from China regarding the numbers of cases and deaths etc. I also find the lockdown policies the Chinese government is pursuing to be beyond bizarre (and I suspect they don't have anything to do with disease prevention, but that's another issue above my paygrade).

Given that, I don't know if Chinese people are more resistant or not. BUT, with that said, it is not impossible that there have been other coronoaviruses that spread into humans in the past mainly in China but that didn't cause people to die and so nobody every studied them, but that still conferred some cross-immunity. Remember that SARS-CoV-1 also affected humans first in China.

Of course, I don't know if an earlier unstudied coronavirus circulated in China or not, but there have been some papers in the literature that speculate about that kind of thing.

None of this has anything to do with TT, except that I still wonder if the tournament will actually take place.

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 6:15pm

Baal wrote:

"You guys know, there is something super special about Chinese people/China.
They don't get affected by Covid to be honest, so there is no need for any more lockdown."

Of course, I don't know if an earlier unstudied coronavirus circulated in China or not, but there have been some papers in the literature that speculate about that kind of thing.

None of this has anything to do with TT, except that I still wonder if the tournament will actually take place.

Baal, your sarcasm detector has failed you.

Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/08/2022 at 7:16pm

It wouldn't be the only one of my super powers that has faded to obscurity.

Posted By: Snakefish
Date Posted: 09/09/2022 at 1:50am

Charlie Brown wrote:

However you want to read into this one...(there will be NO selection process)

The Canadian Team headed to Chengdu...

https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/

So TTCan didn't want to send their official teams, but instead offered whoever wanted to represent

Canada could "self-fund" themselves ? It could be expanded more, but that's what it basically sounds like

-------------
Andro Treiber Z - fl
FH: Tibhar MX-D max
BH: Tibhar Quantum ProX-blue,max

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/09/2022 at 11:01am

The following men’s and women’s teams will be vying for one of the sport’s most coveted titles.

Men’s teams: Algeria; Australia; Austria; Belgium; Brazil; Canada; China; Chinese Taipei; Croatia; Czech Republic; Denmark; Egypt; England; France; Germany; Hong Kong, China; Hungary; India; Iran; Japan; Kazakhstan; Mexico; Poland; Portugal; Puerto Rico; Republic of Korea; Romania; Saudi Arabia; Singapore; Slovakia; Slovenia; Sweden; Thailand; United States of America; Uzbekistan

Women’s teams: Algeria; Brazil; Canada; China; Chinese Taipei; Czech Republic; Egypt; France; Germany; Hong Kong, China; Hungary; India; Iran; Japan; Italy; Luxembourg; Malaysia; Mexico; Poland; Portugal; Puerto Rico; Republic of Korea; Romania; Singapore; Slovakia; South Africa; Sweden; Thailand; Ukraine; United States of America; Uzbekistan

The first stage draw is scheduled for Wednesday 28 September.

source: https://www.ittf.com/2022/09/09/list-teams-vying-2022-world-champions-title-unveiled/" rel="nofollow - https://www.ittf.com/2022/09/09/list-teams-vying-2022-world-champions-title-unveiled/

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/09/2022 at 11:10am

Snakefish wrote:

Charlie Brown wrote:

However you want to read into this one...(there will be NO selection process)

The Canadian Team headed to Chengdu...

https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/

So TTCan didn't want to send their official teams, but instead offered whoever wanted to represent

Canada could "self-fund" themselves ? It could be expanded more, but that's what it basically sounds like

History is repeating itself for ttcanada ;)

What's hilarious to me:"self-funded = Representation" Clap

thatsaid i am well aware of the issues but it's doesn't take away from that very thought.

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: Charlie Brown
Date Posted: 09/09/2022 at 11:16am

jfolsen wrote:

Charlie Brown wrote:

jfolsen wrote:

Is Canada boycotting?

Did you read page 2?

My question was rhetorical. You seem to be holding the USA to a standard you aren't holding Canada to. As for ping pong diplomacy, the Canadian team visited China before the US team did back in 1971.

Did i hurt your feelings, if so... LOL

it's an open forum you should not read into postings and make it personal.

-------------
*sigh*

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/10/2022 at 7:03pm

Charlie Brown wrote:

Snakefish wrote:

Charlie Brown wrote:

However you want to read into this one...(there will be NO selection process)

The Canadian Team headed to Chengdu...

https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/" rel="nofollow - https://ttcanada.ca/self-funded-team-to-2022-chendu-wtttc/

So TTCan didn't want to send their official teams, but instead offered whoever wanted to represent

Canada could "self-fund" themselves ? It could be expanded more, but that's what it basically sounds like

History is repeating itself for ttcanada ;)

What's hilarious to me:"self-funded = Representation" Clap

thatsaid i am well aware of the issues but it's doesn't take away from that very thought.

At least ttcanada posts on its website the players that are going. I cannot find anywhere on USATT's website who was selected. We're on the list of countries attending. I guess sooner or later we'll find out.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 7:35am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

That was apparently not the case. JTTA wouldn't have added extra points for beating top 3 CNT players for the period 1/2023-1/2024 back in 6/2022 after https://www3.nhk.or.jp/sports/news/k10013658081000/" rel="nofollow - players' feedback of "lack of motivations" .

However, that's not what I'm getting at here. What I mean is that if Ito can't beat top CNT players, then she's just as good(or bad) as Ishikawa. Same for everyone else. Hence, whoever the top 3 maybe won't matter at that point. It's not whether the glass is half full or half empty. The central ideas I've been stressing are " http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1131311&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1131311" rel="nofollow - potential " and " http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92044&PID=1129907&title=wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16#1129907" rel="nofollow - value ", both of which Ito is running low. They can be universally applied to other medal-contending teams. Did anyone with an objective stance seriously expect Boll to win a medal when he had never run into China in the Olympic singles? As history shows, the selection system, or the lack of it in https://www.tt-kharkiv.com/en/news/olympic-games-2020-dimitrij-ovtcharov-and-petrissa-solja-lead-the-german-olympic-squad" rel="nofollow - Germany 's case, hardly matters in the end when the players that shouldn't have been chosen kept being the ones chosen. That won't change as long as we keep focusing on whether one "deserves to play" rather than whether one "should NOT play".

KTS and RSM were in the same situation(see quote below). BTW, https://news.sina.cn/sa/2004-08-24/detail-ikkntiam0857081.d.html" rel="nofollow - RSM beat WH at the Asian Junior Championships(?) 1999 , their very first encounter.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20094-Marvellous-12-2019&p=260310&viewfull=1#post260310" rel="nofollow - https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20094-Marvellous-12-2019&p=260310&viewfull=1#post260310

Most people probably never knew about this, but the KTTA was in turmoil between 2004 and 2008. It was a period of non-stop and fierce political infighting.

I don't know the specifics for the Seoul Olympics, but for Athens, Chon Young Seok, the then President of KTTA(01/2004-07/2008), and a controversial one at that, actually intervened in the selection process and "urged" KTS to retire and turn to coaching without any transition period, who had just finished 1st place above RSM and JSH in the trial. The reason given was that "since beating China is nigh impossible, may as well focus on promising youngsters." Also, the women selections were accused of nepotism and collusion.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124325&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124325" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124325&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124325

Compared to the Tokyo 2020 cycle, this Paris 2024 cycle highlights even more just how weak and fortunate Ishikawa's era was. Some may find my constant bashing annoying, but the Olympic results justified my assessment of Ishikawa after Rio 2016. Shouldn't have played Tokyo 2020. A third wheel. Any team composition of Ito/Hirano/Hayata/Nagasaki/Kihara would have guaranteed the same results in singles and team at a minimum.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 8:32am

zeio wrote:

Compared to the Tokyo 2020 cycle, this Paris 2024 cycle highlights even more just how weak and fortunate Ishikawa's era was. Some may find my constant bashing annoying, but the Olympic results justified my assessment of Ishikawa after Rio 2016. Shouldn't have played Tokyo 2020. A third wheel. Any team composition of Ito/Hirano/Hayata/Nagasaki/Kihara would have guaranteed the same results in singles and team at a minimum.

Everyone agrees it doesn't matter who JNTTA sends. CNT could sit their best three women and win silver and gold with WYD and CXT. Why then are you so worked up about who JNTTA sent in 2020, and who will go in 2024?

Are you seriously saying that having the experience getting destroyed by CM, WMY or SYS in the Olympics would enable HH or one of the others to win in 2024? Don't they all have enough experience getting destroyed by far superior Chinese women in other tournaments?

Your argument is def true, but it seems to contradict your conclusion.

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 9:40am

zeio wrote:

That was apparently not the case. JTTA wouldn't have added extra points for beating top 3 CNT players for the period 1/2023-1/2024 back in 6/2022 after https://www3.nhk.or.jp/sports/news/k10013658081000/" rel="nofollow - players' feedback of "lack of motivations" .

I think JTTA should extend this to top 4 as WYD has really proven herself when given the opportunites. In fact, I think the points for winning one of the top 3 CNT players should be increased.

zeio wrote:

However, that's not what I'm getting at here. What I mean is that if Ito can't beat top CNT players, then she's just as good(or bad) as Ishikawa. Same for everyone else. Hence, whoever the top 3 maybe won't matter at that point. It's not whether the glass is half full or half empty. The central ideas I've been stressing are " http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1131311&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1131311" rel="nofollow - potential " and " http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92044&PID=1129907&title=wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16#1129907" rel="nofollow - value ", both of which Ito is running low. They can be universally applied to other medal-contending teams. Did anyone with an objective stance seriously expect Boll to win a medal when he had never run into China in the Olympic singles? As history shows, the selection system, or the lack of it in https://www.tt-kharkiv.com/en/news/olympic-games-2020-dimitrij-ovtcharov-and-petrissa-solja-lead-the-german-olympic-squad" rel="nofollow - Germany 's case, hardly matters in the end when the players that shouldn't have been chosen kept being the ones chosen. That won't change as long as we keep focusing on whether one "deserves to play" rather than whether one "should NOT play".

In the absence of a win (which none of them have), taking top CNT players close in the 5th of a best of 5 does represent potential (so Ito and Hayata are closer with 9 and 8 points respectively). If you go back to the video of Mima Ito playing WMY at the ESS Star Contender, WMY looked pretty nervous to me. That nervousness is going to be amplified much higher at the Olympics and anything can happen at that point. If she has the skills and experience to take WMY to 9-11 in the 5th, then that takes away from the argument that she should not play. The best thing to do is let's just watch what transpires between now and Paris 2024. Let them go through trial by fire in the selection tournaments and vs. the top CNT.

zeio wrote:

KTS and RSM were in the same situation(see quote below). BTW, https://news.sina.cn/sa/2004-08-24/detail-ikkntiam0857081.d.html" rel="nofollow - RSM beat WH at the Asian Junior Championships(?) 1999 , their very first encounter.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20094-Marvellous-12-2019&p=260310&viewfull=1#post260310" rel="nofollow - https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20094-Marvellous-12-2019&p=260310&viewfull=1#post260310

The great thing about what happened in Athens is that it just goes to show you that you could lose a number of times to an opponent, but it only takes that one time where you put it all together and win in that moment. WH dominated RSM throughout their careers, but people will remember that incredible Athens 2004 Olympics where RSM took gold.

The top 4 CNT players really haven't played a lot internationally this year so there's really not enough visibility yet. We should see more at Teams and there hopefully will be more high level events next year. I think that will give us better visibility into the potential of the top Japanese players. But as of right now, the argument that Ito should not play falls flat imho.

[Edit] I'd also like to add that you might even be right about Ishikawa at the Tokyo Olympics. However, the situation has changed. Ishikawa had a built in advantage with the race being based on world rankings, and she was already very highly ranked from the beginning. Who knows what would have happened if they had used multiple selection tournaments plus points for beating the top 3 CNT. There's the saying that the cream rises to the top. And after all of these trials, we'll see who rises to the top. Mima Ito might end up not even being on the Paris Olympic team for Japan. Who really knows?

Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 9:52am

Going to be several high-profile absences from this tournament.

Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 12:11pm

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

I think JTTA should extend this to top 4 as WYD has really proven herself when given the opportunites. In fact, I think the points for winning one of the top 3 CNT players should be increased.

zeio wrote:

However, that's not what I'm getting at here. What I mean is that if Ito can't beat top CNT players, then she's just as good(or bad) as Ishikawa. Same for everyone else. Hence, whoever the top 3 maybe won't matter at that point. It's not whether the glass is half full or half empty. The central ideas I've been stressing are " https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1131311&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1131311" rel="nofollow - potential " and " https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92044&PID=1129907&title=wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16#1129907" rel="nofollow - value ", both of which Ito is running low. They can be universally applied to other medal-contending teams. Did anyone with an objective stance seriously expect Boll to win a medal when he had never run into China in the Olympic singles? As history shows, the selection system, or the lack of it in https://www.tt-kharkiv.com/en/news/olympic-games-2020-dimitrij-ovtcharov-and-petrissa-solja-lead-the-german-olympic-squad" rel="nofollow - Germany 's case, hardly matters in the end when the players that shouldn't have been chosen kept being the ones chosen. That won't change as long as we keep focusing on whether one "deserves to play" rather than whether one "should NOT play".

https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124325&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124325" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1124325&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1124325

Ishikawa or not Ishikawa, Hirano or not Hirano, Hayata or not Hayata.....the result at Tokyo would probably have been a Chinese win......Defeating one Chinese in a best of 7 games match is some kind of miracle...defeating both is nearly impossible unless you have 5 lucky points in 4 sets......

The only possible problem China will have is its player selection since too many Chinese players keep on beating all the Japanese.....without losing for quite a long time....the Chinese coaches could pick the wrong ladies, the wrong day...the result would be a 3-1 win for the CNT instead of a 3-0

-------------
Matador ST, Skyline 2 National 35° 2,15mm, Superstop 1,9mm

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 12:26pm

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

In the absence of a win (which none of them have), taking top CNT players close in the 5th of a best of 5 does represent potential (so Ito and Hayata are closer with 9 and 8 points respectively). If you go back to the video of Mima Ito playing WMY at the ESS Star Contender, WMY looked pretty nervous to me. That nervousness is going to be amplified much higher at the Olympics and anything can happen at that point. If she has the skills and experience to take WMY to 9-11 in the 5th, then that takes away from the argument that she should not play. The best thing to do is let's just watch what transpires between now and Paris 2024. Let them go through trial by fire in the selection tournaments and vs. the top CNT.

The great thing about what happened in Athens is that it just goes to show you that you could lose a number of times to an opponent, but it only takes that one time where you put it all together and win in that moment. WH dominated RSM throughout their careers, but people will remember that incredible Athens 2004 Olympics where RSM took gold.

WMY was virtually playing on one leg at WTT SCT ESS. Her leg got much better(in her own words) a week later at WTT CS ESS.

Ito had to beat WMY there but failed. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131184&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131184" rel="nofollow - Just like how Hayata , at her best, had to beat Ito, far from her best, at Zennoh Cup but failed. Same with Zhang Yining's comment on Ishikawa in WT final of WTTC 2016, "if Ishikawa couldn't beat LXX today[whom was in the poorest of form], then she will never beat her". Again, I'll refer you to http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92138&PID=1130638&title=european-championships-2022-8-1321#1130638" rel="nofollow - what LGL said, which Ito also touched on.

Before drawing parallels between RSM and Ito, one should note that RSM never lost in straight games between 2003 and 2006. The 4 matches from late-2003 to late-2005 were actually close. Ito had a similar period against WMY between 2017 and 2019, and against SYS between 2018 and 2019. Yes, it ended in 2019.

I'm not suggesting Ito should not play. I'm responding to your suggestion that Hirano does not deserve to play if she couldn't beat Ishikawa, who keeps getting in the way. At this rate, Ito will be reduced to Ishikawa if she doesn't win. Coming close against a half-crippled opponent doesn't cut it. when multiple teammates show the potential with the same feat, it then comes down to your value, but Ito's value as the go-to player for singles, doubles and mixed doubles is also being chipped away right now. Once again, Ito is already getting in the way of Hayata by dragging her down in doubles. That's the dilemma Ito faces.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/12/2022 at 12:59pm

zeio wrote:

WMY was virtually playing on one leg at WTT SCT ESS. Her leg got much better(in her own words) a week later at WTT CS ESS.

Ito had to beat WMY there but failed. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131184&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131184" rel="nofollow - Just like how Hayata , at her best, had to beat Ito, far from her best, at Zennoh Cup but failed. Same with Zhang Yining's comment on Ishikawa in WT final of WTTC 2016, "if Ishikawa couldn't beat LXX today[whom was in the poorest of form], then she will never beat her". Again, I'll refer you to http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92138&PID=1130638&title=european-championships-2022-8-1321#1130638" rel="nofollow - what LGL said, which Ito also touched on.

You say had to beat so and so but failed as if that's the end of it. You lose a match, work out your issues, and hope for a rematch. I also don't find what Mima said to be anything profound. Yes, it's very difficult to win against the Chinese. And yes she has to give it 100%. That's true of every player that plays against the top Chinese. LGL has the good fortune of having the best players in the world that can beat you at not their best level. Unfortunately, for every other country they do need to be at there best. That's nothing new.

zeio wrote:

I'm not suggesting Ito should not play. I'm responding to your suggestion that Hirano does not deserve to play if she couldn't beat Ishikawa, who keeps getting in the way. At this rate, Ito will be reduced to Ishikawa if she doesn't win. Coming close against a half-crippled opponent doesn't cut it. when multiple teammates show the potential with the same feat, it then comes down to your value, but Ito's value as the go-to player for singles, doubles and mixed doubles is also being chipped away right now. Once again, Ito is already getting in the way of Hayata by dragging her down in doubles. That's the dilemma Ito faces.

I think you misunderstood me. I actually was not referring specifically to Hirano. I said:

"And as for getting in the way, if you're not good enough to beat Ishikawa [Edit: in a multi-tournament race.. not h2h] then perhaps you don't deserve to be in the Olympics."

I was referring to the current race (multi-tournament race). Ishikawa is fighting to make one of those 3 spots. And if you (not necessarily Hirano) can't leapfrog her into one of those 3 spots, then that's on you as the rules are pretty clear and fair (imho). Hirano actually did make the Tokyo Olympics just not singles.

I do agree with you though about doubles. There's no Mizutani equivalent for XD, and it just hasn't worked out with Hayata.

Posted By: jackwong23
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 2:39am

Dima, Timo and Franzizka have withdrawn from the Wttc .

Germany will now struggle to make the semi final.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 3:34am

jackwong23 wrote:

Dima, Timo and Franzizka have withdrawn from the Wttc .

Germany will now struggle to make the semi final.

Not withdrawn.

While Boll kept saying "see you in Chengdu" on his youtube channel, DTTB never announced these 3 were on the team. They even http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92179&PID=1131022&title=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1131022" rel="nofollow - foreshadowed it in a news report earlier.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 5:44am

Message from Tischtennis Deutschland.

"You have to give responsibility to the next generation of players early, because they have to learn to deal with pressure situations in time," says men's national coach https://www.facebook.com/benediktduda.de?__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVPsnDzuyMjFaoanbHpM3FusV2LL-wku17yEBsw813rwP2xJ1EM0_Wuw8jvo2GPk1Egmaih9t78oQ5_D1cV7gSeJlmKlWDD54Ew2OZTRjZUE_i85CYd3i2chpchETIDsVbj0oaqSbas-kdUWFrnXWdz8ZP5MfWlQZDUozHxPhCJGaPy8UjmSvR4F0_PxncHkaVecEiGA84bdFs7-QfCL2AD&__tn__=-%5dK-y-R" rel="nofollow -  https://www.facebook.com/walther.ricardo?__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVPsnDzuyMjFaoanbHpM3FusV2LL-wku17yEBsw813rwP2xJ1EM0_Wuw8jvo2GPk1Egmaih9t78oQ5_D1cV7gSeJlmKlWDD54Ew2OZTRjZUE_i85CYd3i2chpchETIDsVbj0oaqSbas-kdUWFrnXWdz8ZP5MfWlQZDUozHxPhCJGaPy8UjmSvR4F0_PxncHkaVecEiGA84bdFs7-QfCL2AD&__tn__=-%5dK-y-R" rel="nofollow -  https://www.facebook.com/fanbomeng1610?__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVPsnDzuyMjFaoanbHpM3FusV2LL-wku17yEBsw813rwP2xJ1EM0_Wuw8jvo2GPk1Egmaih9t78oQ5_D1cV7gSeJlmKlWDD54Ew2OZTRjZUE_i85CYd3i2chpchETIDsVbj0oaqSbas-kdUWFrnXWdz8ZP5MfWlQZDUozHxPhCJGaPy8UjmSvR4F0_PxncHkaVecEiGA84bdFs7-QfCL2AD&__tn__=-%5dK-y-R" rel="nofollow -  https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100068704117408&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVPsnDzuyMjFaoanbHpM3FusV2LL-wku17yEBsw813rwP2xJ1EM0_Wuw8jvo2GPk1Egmaih9t78oQ5_D1cV7gSeJlmKlWDD54Ew2OZTRjZUE_i85CYd3i2chpchETIDsVbj0oaqSbas-kdUWFrnXWdz8ZP5MfWlQZDUozHxPhCJGaPy8UjmSvR4F0_PxncHkaVecEiGA84bdFs7-QfCL2AD&__tn__=-%5dK-y-R" rel="nofollow - The ladies of Tamara Boros will go to the start with the exception of the still injured Peti Solja in the European Championship:  https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063540908700&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVPsnDzuyMjFaoanbHpM3FusV2LL-wku17yEBsw813rwP2xJ1EM0_Wuw8jvo2GPk1Egmaih9t78oQ5_D1cV7gSeJlmKlWDD54Ew2OZTRjZUE_i85CYd3i2chpchETIDsVbj0oaqSbas-kdUWFrnXWdz8ZP5MfWlQZDUozHxPhCJGaPy8UjmSvR4F0_PxncHkaVecEiGA84bdFs7-QfCL2AD&__tn__=-%5dK-y-R" rel="nofollow -  https://www.facebook.com/ying.han.921?__cft__%5b0%5d=AZVPsnDzuyMjFaoanbHpM3FusV2LL-wku17yEBsw813rwP2xJ1EM0_Wuw8jvo2GPk1Egmaih9t78oQ5_D1cV7gSeJlmKlWDD54Ew2OZTRjZUE_i85CYd3i2chpchETIDsVbj0oaqSbas-kdUWFrnXWdz8ZP5MfWlQZDUozHxPhCJGaPy8UjmSvR4F0_PxncHkaVecEiGA84bdFs7-QfCL2AD&__tn__=-%5dK-y-R" rel="nofollow - 
         

Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 5:53am

Your translation seems inaccurate. Maybe you could share the original link, it's usually good practice regardless.

https://www.tischtennis.de/news/haertetest-fuer-qiu-als-fuehrungsspieler-bei-wm-ohne-boll-ovtcharov-und-franziska.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.tischtennis.de/news/haertetest-fuer-qiu-als-fuehrungsspieler-bei-wm-ohne-boll-ovtcharov-und-franziska.html

Here's the selection given in this article.

Men's team:
Dang Qiu (Verein: Borussia Düsseldorf, Weltrangliste vom 6. September: 9), Benedikt Duda (TTC Schwalbe Bergneustadt, WR: 36), Ricardo Walther (ASV Grünwettersbach, WR: 74), Kay Stumper (Borussia Düsseldorf, WR: 92), Fanbo Meng (TTC RhönSprudel Fulda-Maberzell, WR: 99)

Women's team:
Ying Han (KTS Enea Siarka Tarnobrzeg POL / Top Nagoya JPN, WR: 8), Nina Mittelham (ttc berlin eastside / Kyushu Asteeda JPN, WR: 13), Xiaona Shan (ttc berlin eastside / Kyoto Kaguya JPN, WR: 17), Sabine Winter (TSV Schwabhausen, WR: 42), Annett Kaufmann (SV Böblingen, WR: 121)

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 6:27am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

You say had to beat so and so but failed as if that's the end of it. You lose a match, work out your issues, and hope for a rematch. I also don't find what Mima said to be anything profound. Yes, it's very difficult to win against the Chinese. And yes she has to give it 100%. That's true of every player that plays against the top Chinese. LGL has the good fortune of having the best players in the world that can beat you at not their best level. Unfortunately, for every other country they do need to be at there best. That's nothing new.

I think you misunderstood me. I actually was not referring specifically to Hirano. I said:

"And as for getting in the way, if you're not good enough to beat Ishikawa [Edit: in a multi-tournament race.. not h2h] then perhaps you don't deserve to be in the Olympics."

I do agree with you though about doubles. There's no Mizutani equivalent for XD, and it just hasn't worked out with Hayata.

So what the players said doesn't amount to anything?

Here is the thing. There are "checkpoints" they have to clear. Winning against China is not just about "losing a number of times...but it only takes that one time". If that were true, Ishikawa should've done it already. A win doesn't happen out of the blue. Rather, there is a buildup, often a series of close matches. Look at Mizutani. His win over XX in the MT final at Rio 2016 may look like a huge upset, but the 2 prior encounters in early 2016 were actually close. Same for the win at Tokyo 2020, Mizutani/Ito had beaten all other XD pairs from China and were always close against XX/LSW.

That "buildup" is also applicable to other sports, say, sprinting. How do you expect a sprinter to reach the Olympic final when he has never run sub-10 in his life, let alone do it consistently in competitions? That's the story of Su Bingtian. How did he reach the Olympic final? By clearing a series of checkpoints. Check it out if you care enough.

https://youtu.be/52jgttTNGuM?t=593" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/52jgttTNGuM?t=593

The minimum goal that I set for myself is to run sub-10. If I still can't make the final, I have no regrets, because this is about what I can do. My semifinal is my final.

On Hirano now. You didn't mention anyone specifically, but it was a blanket statement. Does it not apply to Hirano? Of the top players, who have run into Ishikawa in the race so far?

Lion Cup
Hayata(QF 4-3)
Hirano(5-8th place 3-0 -> 3-4)
Ito(5-8th place 1-0 -> Inj)
Asian Games selection trial
Sato(Grp 4-2)
Hirano(Grp 4-0)
Nojima Cup
Ito(F 4-2)
Zennoh Cup
Nagasaki (SF 0-4)
Ito(F 4-0)

Ishikawa is in 4th place overall. Nagasaki, despite being in 3rd place overall, lost to Ishikawa at Zennoh Cup. Kihara, despite not having played Ishikawa, is now behind in 5th place overall. Hirano, despite 1W1L against Ishikawa, is in 6th place overall. Am I right to assume Nagasaki, Kihara and Hirano "don't deserve to be in the Olympics"? Yes, the race is ongoing, but "should NOT play" can be applied anytime without any problem because it's predicting the future by drawing from past experience that matters here.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 6:49am

Bran wrote:

Your translation seems inaccurate. Maybe you could share the original link, it's usually good practice regardless.

https://www.tischtennis.de/news/haertetest-fuer-qiu-als-fuehrungsspieler-bei-wm-ohne-boll-ovtcharov-und-franziska.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.tischtennis.de/news/haertetest-fuer-qiu-als-fuehrungsspieler-bei-wm-ohne-boll-ovtcharov-und-franziska.html

Here's the selection given in this article.

Men's team:
Dang Qiu (Verein: Borussia Düsseldorf, Weltrangliste vom 6. September: 9), Benedikt Duda (TTC Schwalbe Bergneustadt, WR: 36), Ricardo Walther (ASV Grünwettersbach, WR: 74), Kay Stumper (Borussia Düsseldorf, WR: 92), Fanbo Meng (TTC RhönSprudel Fulda-Maberzell, WR: 99)

Women's team:
Ying Han (KTS Enea Siarka Tarnobrzeg POL / Top Nagoya JPN, WR: 8), Nina Mittelham (ttc berlin eastside / Kyushu Asteeda JPN, WR: 13), Xiaona Shan (ttc berlin eastside / Kyoto Kaguya JPN, WR: 17), Sabine Winter (TSV Schwabhausen, WR: 42), Annett Kaufmann (SV Böblingen, WR: 121)

This not my translation, this is the message posted on facebook in English posted by the German federation itself.

-------------
Matador ST, Skyline 2 National 35° 2,15mm, Superstop 1,9mm

Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 7:13am

OK, then the German federation needs a better translator and should read what they actually post on Facebook.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 7:29am

BRS wrote:

Everyone agrees it doesn't matter who JNTTA sends. CNT could sit their best three women and win silver and gold with WYD and CXT. Why then are you so worked up about who JNTTA sent in 2020, and who will go in 2024?

Are you seriously saying that having the experience getting destroyed by CM, WMY or SYS in the Olympics would enable HH or one of the others to win in 2024? Don't they all have enough experience getting destroyed by far superior Chinese women in other tournaments?

Your argument is def true, but it seems to contradict your conclusion.

Why then are you triggered enough to make a post?

Allow me to refer you to the following post that I've quoted so many times since late 2016. Have you looked up Ishikawa's stats against top CNT players over the years? Care to compare them with Hirano and Ito?

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77500&PID=958124&title=2016-ittf-world-tour-swedish-open#958124" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77500&PID=958124&title=2016-ittf-world-tour-swedish-open#958124

Ishikawa may be able to beat Ito and Hirano, but she doesn't stand a chance against China. Not that Ito and Hirano are any better, but they have shown the potential.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 7:55am

Facebook machine translation still as bad as ever.

https://www.facebook.com/tischtennis.de/posts/10159002979017361" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/tischtennis.de/posts/10159002979017361

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 8:08am

zeio wrote:

On Hirano now. You didn't mention anyone specifically, but it was a blanket statement. Does it not apply to Hirano? Of the top players, who have run into Ishikawa in the race so far?

Lion Cup
Hayata(QF 4-3)
Hirano(5-8th place 3-0 -> 3-4)
Ito(5-8th place 1-0 -> Inj)
Asian Games selection trial
Sato(Grp 4-2)
Hirano(Grp 4-0)
Nojima Cup
Ito(F 4-2)
Zennoh Cup
Nagasaki (SF 0-4)
Ito(F 4-0)

Ishikawa is in 4th place overall. Nagasaki, despite being in 3rd place overall, lost to Ishikawa at Zennoh Cup. Kihara, despite not having played Ishikawa, is now behind in 5th place overall. Hirano, despite 1W1L against Ishikawa, is in 6th place overall. Am I right to assume Nagasaki, Kihara and Hirano "don't deserve to be in the Olympics"? Yes, the race is ongoing, but "should NOT play" can be applied anytime without any problem because it's predicting the future by drawing from past experience that matters here.

I meant when the multi-tournament races are finished, and I mentioned not h2h.

I think my wording may have been a bit harsh when I said not deserve to be in the Olympics. You can still be deserving and not make it so I admit to being wrong about that. But the harsh reality is that there are only 3 spots on the team. As of now, Ishikawa doesn't even make the team, and I actually don't think she will make it in the end. I could be wrong though. I think the JTTA has done everything they can to assist in the situation of someone getting in the way by having multiple tournaments and the rule of placing the winner furthest away from the loser in the subsequent tournament. But if we say someone should not play based on past experience, then no one should play because they all have bad records against the top Chinese. And in the case of Hayata and Kihara, they have no wins against the big 4.

Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 8:53am

Thanks zeio. It all makes sense now.

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/13/2022 at 9:32am

I wonder what teams are in the opposite half of China. This development from Germany will make things interesting for Sweden which already has a strong group. If Sweden is in the opposite half of China, then I predict a China/Sweden Men's Team Finals. I hope Kristian Karlsson has fully recovered.

Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/14/2022 at 6:29am

pongfugrasshopper wrote:

I meant when the multi-tournament races are finished, and I mentioned not h2h.

I think my wording may have been a bit harsh when I said not deserve to be in the Olympics. You can still be deserving and not make it so I admit to being wrong about that. But the harsh reality is that there are only 3 spots on the team. As of now, Ishikawa doesn't even make the team, and I actually don't think she will make it in the end. I could be wrong though. I think the JTTA has done everything they can to assist in the situation of someone getting in the way by having multiple tournaments and the rule of placing the winner furthest away from the loser in the subsequent tournament. But if we say someone should not play based on past experience, then no one should play because they all have bad records against the top Chinese. And in the case of Hayata and Kihara, they have no wins against the big 4.

H2H will always come into the picture, like when you cited RSM and WH, or Ito, Hayata, and Kihara against top CNT players at WTT SCT/CS ESS. If we turn to finishing positions instead of points, like http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92044&PID=1129891&title=wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16#1129891" rel="nofollow - I did for Ishikawa and CIC , isn't that a different kind of H2H? What if we do that for the race here? Who would come out on top?

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131253&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131253" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131253&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131253

I was curious how much of an effect the FIXED DRAW had on the outcome of WS. Top 8 seeds only.

4 finals in total so far, but only a maximum of 3 finals is achievable in practice because winner of Lion Cup was exempt from Asian Games 2022 Qualifier.
Hayata: 1st, N/A, 1st(non-fixed), 3rd
Nagasaki: 2nd, w/d, R16(non-fixed), 3rd
Hirano: 8th, 1st(non-fixed), 2nd(non-fixed), 8th
Kihara: 3rd, 2nd(non-fixed), 3rd(non-fixed), R16
Ito: 5th, Grp(non-fixed), QF(non-fixed), 1st
Ishikawa: 6th, Grp(non-fixed), R16(non-fixed), 2nd
Harimoto: R16, N/E, R16(non-fixed), R16

...

第3回パリオリンピック選考会/Paris 2024 Qualifier #3, 2022/11/12-13
Results from Zennoh Cup will be used for seeding(?) FIXED DRAW(?)
1 伊藤美誠/ITO Mima
2 石川佳純/ISHIKAWA Kasumi(伊藤/Ito)
3 早田ひな/HAYATA Hina(伊藤/Ito)
4 長﨑美柚/NAGASAKI Miyu(石川/Ishikawa)
5 芝田沙�£/SHIBATA Saki(石川/Ishikawa)
6 加藤美優/KATO Miyu(伊藤/Ito)
7 橋本　帆乃香/HASHIMOTO Honoka(長﨑/Nagasaki)
8 平野美宇/HIRANO Miu(早田/Hayata)

Now, why did Ito say http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131155&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131155" rel="nofollow - the race would be decided this year ? Because there are checkpoints players have to clear. And the impending one? WTTC 2023. We don't even have to wait until the end to see that whoever misses out on WTTC 2023 will be met with a deficit that will be next to impossible to compensate in the remaining race. Hirano is at the point of no return here. Had the Asian Games been held after Zennoh Cup as originally planned, she'd have been fine, but now?

W 200/F 160/SF 120/QF 80/R16 40/R32 20, most likely results for all of them

On "should NOT play", let me borrow a quote from Bobrow. On what did Bobrow base his opinions? Potential and value.

https://youtu.be/k-tcw6N9Oug?t=495" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/k-tcw6N9Oug?t=495

You know, Hina Hayata, fun fact for you, Hina Hayata, versus ZYL in kazakhstan at the end of last year in the WTGF, had a good chance against ZYL. She was up, I can't remember if it was 2-0 or 2-1 and played a high deuce game that went extra points[note: no deuce], then ZYL turned it around and won 4-2[note: 4-3]. That'd have been really interesting, right, if the Japanese team said, you know what, we're gonna play Ito and Hirano in the 1 and 2, and we're gonna play Hayata in the 3rd. World ranked no. 3 team captain, we're gonna have you sit this one out.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃〃)
= 184.8g

Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 09/14/2022 at 7:18am

kakapo wrote:

This not my translation, this is the message posted on facebook in English posted by the German federation itself.

As zeio indicated, the official message was posted only in German. What you read is the bad machine translation provided to you by Facebook - it's not reliable (like a lot of things on Facebook). You may want to turn off automatic translation.

So no, Rosskopf will NOT play in Chengdu Wink

Posted By: pongfugrasshopper
Date Posted: 09/14/2022 at 7:53am

zeio wrote:

H2H will always come into the picture, like when you cited RSM and WH, or Ito, Hayata, and Kihara against top CNT players at WTT SCT/CS ESS. If we turn to finishing positions instead of points, like http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92044&PID=1129891&title=wtt-contender-tunis-2022-8-16#1129891" rel="nofollow - I did for Ishikawa and CIC , isn't that a different kind of H2H? What if we do that for the race here? Who would come out on top?

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131253&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131253" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1131253&title=2022-zennoh-cup-top32-9-34#1131253

I wanted to stress the multi-tournament component and not just h2h because I don't think looking only at h2h gives a clear picture of a player's ability. They are going to need to play against a variety of styles, and that is why I really like the multi-tournament aspect of this race. Inevitably, there will be h2h encounters in a multiple domestic tournament race. And they are valuable, and maybe even a deciding factor in case of a tie. But when you face a field of international players at the Olympics (and more so the WTTC), you're going to have to be able to handle a variety of styles. As Kasumi has shown, there's no guarantee you beat the non-Chinese.

I'm actually bummed that Hirano didn't make the team for WTTC 2023. It's a dynamic situation, but if I had to pick who are the best 3 right now, it would be Hayata and Ito for sure, but then I have trouble deciding between Hirano and Kihara. Hirano just had the really bad fortune of facing Hayata in the QF at ZENNOH Cup.

zeio wrote:

You won't get any argument from me regarding Hayata over Ishikawa. As I said before, I don't think Ishikawa makes the team. I do respect her fight going 9-11 in the 7th at the LION Cup against Hayata and making the Finals at the ZENNOH Cup. But her play against Lily and Bruna at the ESS Star Contender was a huge warning sign before her more recent loss to CSY. Nonetheless, her retirement is up to her so it doesn't matter if anyone thinks she should not play. As players age, they will naturally be replaced by the younger, stronger players. No need to force someone into retirement.