Quick way to Gain 500 Usatt Points!

I've been seeing some young and fit players that are under 40 years of age that are rated 0-1200 usatt, playing with a fast setups. (main culprit being tenergy) A few of these guys make the hard decision and go to a slow setup, and gain 500 points instantly(a week or so) But the other guys stick with their fast setups and many months go by with no improvement. This has been said by others before, I'll say it again, slow setups allow you to return 5x more balls back. All shots, especially looping become much easier.

So to the young guns out there, want to gain 500 points quick? Go to a slow setup. I admit, downgrading, It's a hard thing to do. You see these 2000+ players at the club using fast setups. You want to be like them, hit hard like them. You think sticking it out with a fast setup will eventually pay off. You think you're too good to downgrade, (yeah, i was there) But how are you going to lift a 100lb weight when you can't even lift a 25lb weight?

I'd call the process 'Fine Tuning'.

I'm right about near the upper end of the range you've given, probably around an 1100-1200, and I've actually been wondering about this recently. For the most part, I've been using a YEO for the past 5 months, at first I had Macro Era on it FH, but I switched that to Mark V Max since I didn't like the springy feel of Macro Era. The past few weeks I figured I'd give a slower set up a shot for even better control, so I got a Primorac OFF- and have Mendo MP 2.0 FH and Sriver 2.1 BH. I thought the slower set up would be better for me, but I just didn't feel that way at all. I went back to using the YEO and I realize the YEO just feels 'right' to me, I can't say it's something I can describe, but I really enjoy how it feels when I use it. I've just read a few places that YEO really isn't the typical 5 ply when it comes to speed, which I can agree with, it really is fast for a 5 ply, so I'm still wondering if I'm using something that's just too much for me? Now I've never tried a composite blade other than Nittaku KVT, which I scrapped pretty soon after getting it since I didn't like the speed/vibrations, and I've never touched carbon blades or anything of the sort. I also have never tried a tensor other than Macro Era, but I've been thinking of sticking a glue-effect rubber on my Primorac OFF- to see if it helps/is a better option than my YEO + Mark V. Basically, one of my friends is a 2000 USATT player, and he uses a Butterfly Steger, which is more or less a slightly souped up version of Primorac OFF-, and he has Boost TS on his FH and it works really well for him. Another is a mid 1600 USATT player and has Korbel + Boost and it also works well. I know their skill levels are just better than mine of course, but I've also been wondering if trying my Primorac with a faster rubber would work, since it clearly works for them at higher levels of play? Any thoughts?

Thanks for the response BMonkey, I guess I'm mainly wondering nowadays if I should stick to the Primorac set up or stick with YEO... I'd say I'm more comfortable with my YEO at the moment, but I can't really ascertain if it's a hinderance to my improvement, or if it's a suitable blade for someone around the 1000-1200 level.

jt99sf wrote: I'd call the process 'Fine Tuning'.   Its not a downgrade to control the point and the game. I've fine tuned a few player at my club and they do see the improvement in their game.   Now and then they will stray and try a faster setup, but they will go back once they see that they are losing more points with the faster rubber and/or blade.

Agreed...

Jonan wrote: I don't know, though you can gain consistency from slower rubber, if you go too slow, you simply lack the power to get a shot by anyone and play aggressively away from the table.

I think it's interesting to get an idea of what level play you are discussing.

I know several allaround US1700+ players who use ALL- blades and UNGLUED Sriver FX/Mark V and Juic Scramble. Against similar opponents their attacks from mid distance have enough power to win points (placement and control). Even against higher rated players, up to about US1900 or so they are capable of powerlooping through them. Beyond that, US2100 and above players usually control the point and prevent and such attacks, or are able to attack earlier to end the point.

Example. My #1 setup, slow 5 ply wood blade, slow pips in rubber, medium speed short pips. I could make any shot, but I couldn't beat better players because even though I get it back, they just smash it back at me because its so slow they can setup for it easily.

-What is the skill or level difference?
-Are the shots not winners because of your placement?

I've noticed that when I play people US300 points or so lower and they use cheap premades, that I can routinely fish, lob and counter attack to win. But moving those same players to standard beginner stuff like a Primorac with Sriver - they can produce fast and well placed shots to overwhelm my (admittedly) weak defense.

Don't get me wrong though - I'm guilty of "scaling up" occasionally, however, putting a fast rubber on on an ALL+ blade and swinging for the fences to prevent my opponents from being able to block or counter.

I'm kind of amused that BW2 + BT550 + 80% power loopdrive is more devastating (in terms of penetration) than H3 (classic) + Clipper + 60% (safe) loopdrive. They both will land on table, but because I was able to throw more into the BW2/BT550, it will have much more punch. Enough to make up for the difference in the blade speed, certainly.

But the point had better be over after that 80% swing.

BH-Man wrote: I used an OFF+ blade and fastish rubbers in my first year or so of playing, then went down to an ALL+ blade and lost 150 points is several tourneys. I got the blade I have used for the last 2 years (TBS) went to allround offensive Chinese rubbers and got back over 200 points. I think a lot of it is having a sensible and stable setup to grow with. Other parts of my game grew and I can attribute a lot of it to that. Now that I have moved to Korea and get to play every day, it just gets better. I will be setup to do a few tourneys in USA and be very under-rated. Keeping the equipment reasonable without changes and training effectively = a no brainer formula.

+1.
None of the posts in this thread have been unreasonable or impractical--quite the contrary. Nonetheless, I find BH-Man's post the most practical and comprehensive. It's not necessarily that slower is better (although occasionally it is) but rather, it's important that your setup matches your skill and style. It's true that many people's egos drive them to purchase gear so fast that even many pros wouldn't want to use it, and therefore many people probably need to slow down their gear. But it's not because slow gear is better; it's because the gear they chose for themselves does not match their skill level or style.

Keeping equipment reasonable = no brainer formula.
Keeping equipment slow = dogma. 

My two cents, anyway.

One thing we need to realize is that rating points are very unreliable at the lower levels like 800 to 1500.  Lots has to do with who you happen to match up against in tournaments, in my last tournament I easily beat a 1450 player but lost in 5 to someone under 900 playing my best!  I know 1000 to 1200 players who play at completely different levels.

As to equipment speed I had a 1200 rating playing with setups way too fast for me, Carbon or fast 7 ply wood with Tensors/speed glue effect rubbers.  I got fed up with the short rallies of all offense and switched to hardbat which I played exclusively for about 6 months.  I learned to actually beat opponents through strategy, placement, defense, and an allaround game rather than just killing the ball.  I was playing at a considerably higher level with the hardbat than I had with the fast inverted setup.  Playing hardbat forced me to learn all the aspects of the game I didn't learn with a fast inverted setup.  The last few weeks I have gone back to sponge, but with a 5ply wood blade and medium speed rubbers.  I can now apply all the other skills I learned in hardbat and am playing much better and can do things I never could before.

Rule No1.

fatt wrote: Let me throw my grain of salt in that delicious soup and forgive the long premise... A stroke have to be done with the full body. The whole body needs to go into the stroke. This is more obvious when talking about the fh so I'll use  only the fh (right handed) to image what I mean. Even for a very slow controlled fh close to the table the whole body must go into the stroke: the weight transfer between the feet must happen; the feet rotation to the left (making the right foot appearing to advance a bit and the left go back a bit) the knee and upper legs transfer that force and make the hips rotate giving momentum to the upper body that throws forward the shoulder and from there, even if we do not move our arm the stroke is still possible as the arm may fly with the body work we accomplished: it's amazing that we can do a beautiful fh loop without even moving the arm: we stop everything after we throw the shoulder away and the arm flies free: we can just "control" it and by letting it go free we obtain raw power. It is possible to get a good forehand that way without using the power from the arm and forearm at all --> I think that's one of the ways FH COULD be taught: use body only all the way to the shoulder and let the arm fly free. Only when the newbie knows how to do that he or she should add arm speed. Look at that clip and observe ma long on the second plan: he does everything and the arm speed is swinging on top of a shoulder throw of the arm and the arm seems to fly free; of course the arm is working but only on top and in continuation of a stroke that started with the weight going down right foot. http://www.alphatabletennis.com/clips/06-09.html On top of the body work if we add arm and forearm speed (let's forget about the wrist here) we get the whole forehand in all its glorious power. Now if the ball leaves the racket too fast it wastes away all the body work... The ball leaves the racket too fast if the arm + forearm  speed is not fast enough. The arm alone cannot be fast enough to make a super fast setup stay enough with the ball for proper brushing, control and spin. The full stroke (from the feet to the forearm and wrist) has to be learned with a slow blade because it is hard enough to learn and do that way. It is not wise to make it so much harder and frustrating to learn by having a faster blade. It is emotionally so rewarding to be able to do that full stroke with success; especially when knowing that the result  is much faster and spinnier that whatever can be done with a faster blade with wrong technique. Also It is easier to fine tune the stroke with variation of big components of the stroke (more room to adjust). For example a wrist adjustment may represent a quarter inch variation from the last position while hips variation or rotation of feet or knee flexing may represent a half foot... Bigger components of the body will be tuned easier so always. The truth is we should play with the faster and heavier blade that we can handle. However it is so easy to mistake it is wiser to go a coupe notches down in speed from what we mistakenly are attracted to and compensate with slightly faster rubbers than we need maybe? Example: Let's say I am 1800 USATT and I like Schlager Carbon + Tenergy 2.1 on both sides?  mmmh...I should try to go for a Samsonov Alpha with Tenergy 1.9 on FH and a Sriver FX on BH. That's not a slow setup at all. But I will sure have so much more room to adjust.

I like this, a lot. Even more subtle. As usual, well done sir.
  

Thot wrote: I know professional players using all+/off- blades and playing very well, I don't think I need and OFF+ blade.

On the other side of that, virtually all the top players at my club and the sponsored guys I see there play with fast blades and tenergy. Virtually all the guys I see who go to the St.Louis training center use fast Butterfly blades with tenergy. Like lildudejds said "It�s a fairly Butterfly dominated field as long as equipment goes" there. I see a loooot of Amultart blades with the good players here, even the guys who are sponsored by other companies use that setup. I haven't gotten up close to any of the Lindenwood players to see what they use, but that would be the decider for me on this issue, because they are some of the best in the country.

I mean, sure, if you are using an Off+ blade with tenergy on it and you are a 900 rated player and you switch to a All+ setup you could gain 1400 points after 6 months or so of fixing basic technique, but you aren't going to go from 1300 to 1800 because you are slower now, you should already be able to get the ball on the table at 1300.

APW46 wrote: It all depends on how much you train and to what quality. Too many players think that playing with fast equipment will bring success without the effort, unfortunately, there is only one way, put the time in.

That's why I'm the first person at the club and the last one to leave every week, that and to help the 77 year old head of the club setup. I try to play as much as possible when I'm there and mix in people I think I can beat with people I know I can't beat. I try to get 1-2 matches in against 2000+ rated players each time to keep things in perspective. But when I'm not playing I'm watching the top loopers in action. It's especially useful when the young sponsored guys with coaches come in. Watching them reminds me to keep low, bend my knees, swing with the whole body, wait on the ball to get to my forward shoulder and not get infront of it, the type of follow through to aim for, etc. I used to play ~15 hours a week at college and my old club, but we just played doubles at my club due to lack of tables and there were only a couple people at my college that could beat me so I didn't improve. Even though I only get to play around 8 hours a week now, I'm improving a lot more because of the quality of people and the more intense, focused style play.

I feel like with slower, more forgiving setup, yes I landed more shots, but it didn't enforce good technique. With a faster setup meant for looping, it forces me to be accurate or else I'll miss most of the time, so I'm forced to improve as where before I wasn't forced to in order to land shots. Once you have a grasp on good technique, you should be able to step up with your setup so it keeps pushing you to improve your technique.

APW46 wrote: Jonan wrote: � Once you have a grasp on good technique, you should be able to step up with your setup so it keeps pushing you to improve your technique. Could not agree more, however IMO that is often�where an almighty chasm in perspective appears.

That's why playing the same people every week helps, also it's pretty easy to tell if you're hitting the table or not. I'm also planning on keeping 3 setups with me, All-, Off-, Off. And keep those the same. I have the All- one down, the off- I'm not sure if H3 neo commercial is a good fit for me or not a little too springy for my taste on forehand, but Hexer is working fine on my backhand, which is surprising as I haven't played with inverted on my backhand in ~10 months.

But I felt that off~ setups were too fast for me until I spent a couple months with a really slow setup, then going back to off~ I didn't have problems controlling it.

Jonan wrote: APW46 wrote: [QUOTE=Jonan]  Once you have a grasp on good technique, you should be able to step up with your setup so it keeps pushing you to improve your technique. Could not agree more, however IMO that is often where an almighty chasm in perspective appears.

I disagree, there seems to be the attitude that as long as you can keep the ball on the table you have adequate control and can move to a faster setup.  Once you have a grasp on good technique and decent control with a setup then you can further fine tune your control and learn to control the table and win points with your control.  If you keep moving up to faster paddles as soon as you can control a slower one you will have trouble really fine tuning your control, you can always improve the precision of your control and can concentrate on that if you keep the same setup, changing will make this harder.

icontek wrote: It seems that the longer you can play with the same piece of wood the better your touch and control gets.

 Certainly if your practice time is limited, if you are full time, you adapt to what you play with very quickly.