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Serve from FH corner |
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GeryMerke
Beginner Joined: 09/17/2019 Location: Madison,WI Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I was not questioning your "lefty's extreme backhand" And I clarified righty to righty as well & I was only referring to your incorrect spin orientation
If the ball comes to a player's deep backhand, and if most players naturally go cross-court, where would the table be located then , may I ask ? Yes most players naturally go cross-court but that is ONLY because that is where most of the table is located in most situations LOL (unless you are playing a forehand from your backhand side like Ryu SeungMin or vice versa)
Edited by GeryMerke - 09/17/2019 at 8:46pm |
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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In the first case, you specifically wrote, incorrectly, "Yes, assuming a righty receiver (which I assume you meant also)." This is incorrect since (as I already pointed out), you "assume" something that is not true. The rest of your argument was about something I did not write, since I was writing about serving to a lefty, including your statement, "this statement is MOSTLY incorrect." In the second case, you contradicted your own statement, where you wrote, "the receiver will naturally angle his racket towards the left of the server, because that is where most of the table is located." Here you are defining most of the table to be that big area to the server's left (since he's serving from the forehand side), which would be down the line. Now you are redefining it to be going crosscourt. Sorry, you can't have both contradictory definitions. You joined this forum less than two hours ago and your only five posts EVER are in response to my tactical posts where you misread what I wrote and contradict your own statements. It's somewhat obvious who you are (so much for the 30 days suspension) and am not interested in wasting time with you again. -Larry Hodges
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GeryMerke
Beginner Joined: 09/17/2019 Location: Madison,WI Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Looks like I touched a nerve & there is no reason to get mad at me. I was only referring to your incorrect (or lack of understanding) of spin orientations in case 1 In case 2 , I am not NOT contradicting myself. I am just saying your twisting my words. All I said was table will be to your right if you are a righty playing a normal forehand. Playing a cross-court is after the fact. You play cross-court one and only because most of the table is to your right. Simple as that . Period
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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And I pointed out that you are incorrect in your statements above. We could go in circles, but we've already had this trolling game before, and now you are back under a different name. -Larry Hodges
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Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer
Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
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GeryMerke
Beginner Joined: 09/17/2019 Location: Madison,WI Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Sir, It perfectly ok if you disagree with me but if it was you I would not disrespect someone you do not know by calling them names and accusing them just because they found some serious logical flaws in your analysis. If you disagree it is Ok but there is no need to call me names.
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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Keith Lin, here is the complete text of the posting you responded to: "And I pointed out that you are incorrect in your statements above. We could go in circles, but we've already had this trolling game before, and now you are back under a different name." Now, where did I call you names? Answer: You just made that up. Conclusion: You are trolling. (That's not name-calling, that's referring to an action.) -Larry Hodges
Edited by larrytt - 09/17/2019 at 9:28pm |
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GeryMerke
Beginner Joined: 09/17/2019 Location: Madison,WI Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Accusing someone of trolling is no less than calling them a troll. Obviously you are hell bent on going in circles and using semantics to play the same game I will take the high road & ignore you. Good Bye |
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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Usually, yes. It's best to practice these things so they are ready when you need them. But sometimes you have to improvise, especially for players below world-class level. The first time I ever did forehand pendulum serves from the forehand side was at the North American Teams, in response to a specific style - and I didn't get a chance to practice it first. Below is an excerpt from my tactics book on this, from the chapter "Tactical Examples." If I hadn't invented this tactic on the spot, I would likely have lost both matches. Just about anybody else in the tournament who played these two players could have done this, but they weren't flexible with their tactical thinking and so played conventional tactics against unconventional players, and so they all lost. -Larry Hodges At the North
American Teams one year I was playing with slightly lower-ranked players as a
player/coach. I was one of the three undefeated players in the division. The
other two were two junior players from Canada. Our teams played in the final.
Both of the Canadian juniors played the same style, which had created havoc
throughout the division: big forehand looping attacks, but medium long pips on
the backhand which they used to flat hit shot after shot. They quick-hit every
short serve with their backhands (spin didn’t take on their pips), even short
ones to their forehand, and followed with their big forehands. As I watched
them play, I realized that they would have little trouble with my best serve, a
forehand pendulum serve I do from my backhand corner, which sets up my
forehand. No matter where I’d serve it, if it was long, they’d loop it; if it
was short, they’d backhand hit it. I could use a tomahawk serve to their
forehand, but that would take away my big serving strength. What to do? When I went out
to play the first of the two, I set up like I normally do to serve, in the
backhand corner. Then I took two steps to my right, and spent the whole match
serving forehand pendulum serves from my forehand corner. This gave me an angle
into his forehand so that he’d have to receive with his forehand (or risk me
going down the line to his open backhand side if he tried to cover the short
forehand with his backhand), and so I was able to use my pendulum serve to his
inverted forehand, something he had probably rarely had to deal with. Since he
couldn’t return it aggressively, I was able to move back into position after
each serve to attack with my forehand. The same strategy worked against the
other Canadian junior, and I won both matches. (Ironically, before the last
match, the perceptive Canadian coach took the other junior off to a table and
mimicked my serve over and over from the forehand side so the kid could
practice against it, but it wasn’t enough.) I won all three of my matches, but
alas, we lost the final 5-3. Edited by larrytt - 09/17/2019 at 10:15pm |
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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Actually, Keith Lin/Hunkeelin, they are very different things. If I do something stupid tactically, that doesn't mean I'm stupid; one refers to the action, the other to the person. To use a famous example, Albert Einstein famously did a dumb math mistake early on in his relativity work, which set his work back for a time. Calling his mistake dumb was not calling Einstein dumb, which he definitely was not. In our discussions, I didn't use semantics; I simply responded to what you wrote, where I pointed out the "problems" that I saw in your responses to me. However, I am glad you are taking the high road and will ignore me, and I will do the same from here on. -Larry Hodges
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Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer
Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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My extreme improvisations rarely worked for me. But for sure, some moderate changes in the position I serve from has been useful on occasion. But a complete change in service motion to something I've basically never practiced has only ever ended up in my losing the point. i don't hit backhand serves for example. I've never practiced it (not even when I was a kid and Stellan Bengtsson was my hero). No way I'm going to try that in a match even if all my usual stuff is turning out to be not real effective against opponent. And I have to say, I've never actually tried serving all the way from my own forehand corner, not even in practice. So I wouldn't try it in a match.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Larry, thanks for your thoughts. That was a really good strategy executed under pressure!
I started trying out serving from my FH side (corner is too extreme, slightly beyond the middle line works the best). Most people I played with had huge difficulty receiving serves from that corner as they're just not used to it, it completely changes the game for them. I love it because I no longer need to leap to my FH for the third ball, I'm already there in a position to attack from both wings but particularly on the BH. There's a receive to the BH short which is unattackable pretty much but I can step in and do a deep fast push to throw the problem to my opponent. Any other short receive will be met by a dangerous chiquita, with the sideswipe and short push as variation. Long receives will be met by strong BH and FH opening loops (it still feels like I'm attacking in a weird position which I'll have to get used to, there's a lot of moving to the BH corner to attack and attacking with the BH from the middle line). But those opening loops from these weird positions also create weird lines of play which most opponents feel uneasy... The serve to the FH short corner of the opponent really limits his or her options due to the lack of stable attacking options which makes the follow up quite devastating if trained well. There's also long serves down the line to prevent people from being too comfortable, which has its own follow up patterns. Having a primary serve pattern that people are not used to could be a significant advantage in competitions I think...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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wilkinru
Silver Member Joined: 04/28/2015 Location: Las Vegas Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Just play with your left hand...
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TB ZLF
inverted inverted |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Lol if only it was that easy....
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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I wasn't coaches as a kid. No video obviously. I made all my serves up. I have odd ones that I can get an odd point off anybody, just because of unorthodoxy. It typically only works once though.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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wilkinru
Silver Member Joined: 04/28/2015 Location: Las Vegas Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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My point is, you are correct - a little variation from the norm can be really effective. Like left handers often enjoy.
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TB ZLF
inverted inverted |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Yeah exactly I noticed Liu Shiwen and Miu Hirano used FH serves from the FH side too to great effect, see below... |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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