I would agree that getting use to a rubber can make you serve better with it. But all things equal I still think the same player would increase their control with a tacky rubber. You can get used to anti-spin but it's not going to create more spin than the same rubber design with a topsheet that has a better friction coefficient. 

Edited by Thaidog - 08/31/2010 at 1:47am

I agree that comparing two different people using two different rubbers is not very accurate.  I think I can use two different rubbers and tell the difference because I would do the serves the same way much like I use the Gambler paddle like I would use the TBS+2xT05.  I should add YMMV.

Drop a ball on your Tenergy directly above it and measure the distance it bounces up. Next do the same thing with Apollo. You will note that the ball bounces less, if any, with Apollo. The "control" I'm talking about in part has to do with being able to swing fast, impart a lot of spn and still keep the ball short. The tackiness of the rubber helps in all of these factors. When you get Apollo it will be so tacky when you first hit with it that you will have trouble hitting it over the net. Here is another video review:

http://www.youtube.com/user/worldrubber#p/u/0/xjLfPONYHz8

Also, looking at one of your videos testing rubbers on the robot, one thing to note is you have the robot on high and you are hitting the rubber directly with a flat racket... at that speed you seem to be trying to test what to expect when looping... but when looping the racket angle is always closed. It may be more valuable to measure results from an angled racket face.

So, you guys are saying that tacky rubbers is a great way to hide the fact that you lack the touch? Seriously folks, it is individual preferences and the differences between them isn't that great, even though they require different technique.

This isn't exactly my line of expertise, but if you use a tacky rubber, you have very high friction, so you will put nice spin on the ball, but once the ball is supposed to leave the blade/rubber, the tackiness still holds on to it, which would decrease the spin, right?

Serving with anti isn't easy, due to the low amount of friction, but a regular grippy rubber can grab the ball as good as a tacky rubber and generate as much spin, if used correctly. I've played with Chinese rubbers for most of my time as a serious player, but have switched to grippy rubbers and I can produce pretty much the same serve now as before.

As for junk rubbers, I'm fine with that, it really is junk and it's such a pleasure to beat a double inverted player despite giving them the handicap of me using junk on one side =)

As with any rubber, you have to use them correctly to get spin, regardless of if they are tacky or grippy.

As for Roxon vs Tenergy, I loved my Roxon and had no intentions on trying the Tenergy rubbers as I though they were over-priced. Then, I got an offer to buy a sheet really, really cheap, so I decided to see what all the fuss was about. As you might remember, my first experience with T 05 was horrible. I hated that rubber and felt it was completely useless. Why? I don't know if I failed to adapt to it, or perhaps the rubber needed a breaking in period, but the second time around, itperfrmed much better and now I absolutely love it. Believe me, I truly wanted to hate it, since I was 100% confident that all the positive remarks were made because of the hype that surround BTY. I still think the hype that surrounds BTY is to big, but with Tenergy, I have to admitt, BTY have managed to create a unique rubber and the T 05 fits me like a glove. I'm notclaiming I can make more spin then players who don't use Tenergy, but I can create more spin with Tenergy then what I have been able todo with any other rubber, including several tacky rubbers, used with speed glue.

My main point is, each rubber type has it's advantages, but it depends on your technique and with the right technique, you can make identical shots with them, be they grippy or tacky. Cause, if one was superior to the other, then why on earth do they both still exists???

EDIT: Forgot to add, the reason I said pretty much is that it have been roughly 2 years since I changed away from tacky rubbers and since then, my serve have improved, but if I went back to tacky rubbers, my serve would probably not become better or worse then it is today. So, I couldactually make the claim that I get more spinfrom grippy rubbers then I've ever had with tacky, which is true, but this has nothing to do with the rubbers, this is due to my improved technique.

Edited by Speedplay - 08/31/2010 at 10:38am

i STILL dont understand how people can say grippy provides more spin than tacky..... more friction is more output. Like i said before, youre saying that with grippy anti spin rubber, you can give me a serve with just as much spin as h3?

You know, those 20dollar rackets out on the supermarket is pretty much dead rubber, BUT theyre pretty grippy ya know. If you can generate as much spin with that racket as you can with a tacky rubber, then you are god. If you cant, then you have no further proof.

Thaidog, I respect your opinion. This i what forums are all about, to share opinions and we don't always have to agree. As long as we both are happy with our equipment and feel it brings out the best of us, then all is good.

Davidzou, I can't remember reading any claims that a grippy anti (goes against the purpose of anti, so it confuses me. 804 is the only anti I have tried with grip, and I don't think that is a "real" anti) can create more spin then a tacky rubber. What's been said is that the difference is minor and I have to agree with thomas.gt. loads of tack seems towork against the spin, while mildy tacky rubbers might provide some help, but in my opinion, no more help then a grippy rubber.

okay there buddy. Thats what this whole debate is saying. The guy running the tests claims that grippy can produce the same spin as tacky. And youre saying that an anti spin grippy CANT produce as much spin as a tacky rubber all of a sudden.

I dont understand how loads of tack reduces the amount of spin. That makes no sense, its like you guys are saying there's a set limit on spin you can achieve and if you pass it then the spin degrades.

Tacky rubbers you can swing as hard and fast as you can and input more energy for more spin outtage because the rubber CAN hold onto the ball to do that. Use a euro/jap rubber and use the same force and stroke to try producing that spin, and the ball will slip across the rubber because theres NOT ENOUGH TACK TO HOLD THE BALL.

I said it before and ill say it again. How many times do you EVER see people whiffing service returns into the net against timo boll? How many times do you see people whiffing serves into the net against chinese players?

edit for hookshot*
Only reason why you "think" theres not as much spin is because youre probably returning it with a grippy not so tacky rubber(which is reasonable). But dont claim it doesnt have much spin. If you touched it with a tacky rubber, returning it would have been serveral times harder.


Edited by davidzou - 08/31/2010 at 3:52pm

davidzou wrote: okay there buddy. Thats what this whole debate is saying. The guy running the tests claims that grippy can produce the same spin as tacky. And youre saying that an anti spin grippy CANT produce as much spin as a tacky rubber all of a sudden.

Seriously, have you been reading the tread??? No one has everclaimed that anti can produce as much spin as any other inverted, be it grippy or tacky, cause anti's are made to be slick and unaffected by incoming spin, which gives at hand, they can not generate (loads of) spin them self.

How ever, a regular grippy inverted can produce the same amount of spin as a tacky rubber, which is what have been claimed here all along. Tackiness do grip the ball and helps to create rotation, how ever, on the moment of release, the tackiness holds on to the ball, which reduces the amount of spin.

davidzou wrote: i STILL dont understand how people can say grippy provides more spin than tacky..... more friction is more output. Like i said before, youre saying that with grippy anti spin rubber, you can give me a serve with just as much spin as h3? You know, those 20dollar rackets out on the supermarket is pretty much dead rubber, BUT theyre pretty grippy ya know. If you can generate as much spin with that racket as you can with a tacky rubber, then you are god. If you cant, then you have no further proof.

ummm

Edited by figgie - 08/31/2010 at 4:50pm

please do. But seriously everyone speaking all this nonsense when they cant prove it. And you know what? Breaking in the rubbers gives you better control. Every fresh sheet is different but when theyre all broken in then theyre all the same. Broken in rubbers gives better performance, consistency and power.

I Know there is not as much spin, as many were returned with my H-3.  Fresh H-3. 

davidzou wrote: please do. But seriously everyone speaking all this nonsense when they cant prove it. And you know what? Breaking in the rubbers gives you better control. Every fresh sheet is different but when theyre all broken in then theyre all the same. Broken in rubbers gives better performance, consistency and power.

Edited by figgie - 08/31/2010 at 5:25pm

davidzou wrote: dead sheet of catapult serve spin = fresh hurricane 3 serve then?

If by "fresh" you mean with the film just taken off the H2/H3 topsheet.