Short pips or not

SP is an interesting way to play, and they have certain advantages.

1.  They can be really useful for serve return, especially flicking short serves, and the balls often take a strange side bounce when you do that.

2.  They can be very disruptive on blocks.

3.  The spinny ones, like Raystorm for example, can generate surprising amounts of spin on serves and opening loops, for example against underspin.  People often misjudge the amount of spin on those shots.  Again, balls can take strange side bounces, often into the body of the opponent.  These are pretty much always slow loops, but if you learn to keep them low, it messes people up for awhile. 

4.  They are capable of enormous speed variation.  Slow balls go very slow and when you hit hard, they ball goes very fast.  WIth a little practice, you can get opponents to make lots of timing errors, and they are not sure why it is happening.  Excellent margin for error in the short game.

5.  Fast flat hit balls are disruptive and tend to be returned into the net.

There are some things you will need to adjust to.

1.  They are substantially lighter rubbers than inverted I think. When I eventually gave up on SP after several years, and went back to inverted, one of the things that was tough at first was the greater weight of the setup.  If you add SP to one side, like the BH side, it will actually change the way the FH side plays, even if you keep the same inverted rubber on the FH.

2.  You will need to probably change your grip some to accommodate the more open racket angle you will need to use on the SP side.  This will also affect the way you play the inverted side.

3.  I still maintain that effectively counterlooping from middle distance with SP is just not something you can rely on doing well consistently.  They are a liability if you get backed up, and you don't need to get backed up very far for that to be a factor.  You have to stay close to the table, and closer than inverted. Every coach who teaches SP play (and back when I was trying to play that way, I talked to a bunch, including coaches in China) and they all emphasized that.  I experienced it first hand for quite a few years.  Watch any good SP player and see how they play.  Watch what they can do and what they can't.  Yes, if you speed glue the SP it helps some (but illegal obviously, now). It is important to not put yourself in the position where you have to try to make that shot.  It is not a winning strategy.   

4.  This will affect the way you approach your stroke on the inverted side.  You will need to probably make that stroke shorter and smaller.

5.  If you are a penhold player who likes to block, SP are probably the best thing you can use.  At elite levels of male players it is not a style you see much anymore, but for any club player it is still a very viable style. 

I am really not exaggerating about the problems at mid-distance.      

JacekGM wrote: In my case, after playing SP for a year and a half (both sides, BTW, trying to imitate Johnny Huang; tested 802, 802-40, Spectol(s), and about 4-6 other pips) I returned to inverted. My reason: annoying lack of control against all kinds of low, gentle, close to the net balls. "Powerplay", especially smashing underspin and blocking low to medium quality loops was tonnes of fun, but doing something smart with close to net half-dead balls just did not work for me with SP. Does anyone have similar experience?

I have been using short pips for the last 10 years, and total of 15 years.  With all due respect, you need to stick with pips for a few years to fully understand what you need to do with pips in different situations.

Yes, you are right about short gentle or dead (no spin) balls near the net; however, you are not supposed to "control" those type of balls.  You have to flip those balls and initiate attacks.  Those are the bread and butter shots for short pips.

Here is a real challenge for short pips.  If your opponent find a way to push you off the table (about 5 feet or so), then you are in trouble if you have short pips.  This is the only challenge that I can think of (or at least for me).

Edited by roundrobin - 10/27/2015 at 12:43pm

Edited by roundrobin - 10/27/2015 at 12:43pm

roundrobin wrote: wturber wrote: But my point in objecting to Baal's comment wasn't to discuss my play or (heaven forbid) promote hardbat. My point is that I find it fairly incredulous to suggest that getting driven off the table a bit is a dire thing for a short pips player.  It may not be optimal, but it is hardly as hopeless as Baal has suggested.  I agree with you on that point, definitely.    Within five feet of the table or so is nothing.  SPs and hardbat players can move into position and counter the ball pretty hard with a drive/smash without any problem.  I've seen it done in person by LGL, Johnny Huang, Jiang Jialiang and Teng Yi many times.

NextLevel wrote:   Your points are noted and I made mine to convey an idea, not to be rigorously scientific without exception. I will note the standard to which I am being held in the future and note that if everyone held you to it, conversation would never occur.

Whoa. The topic went really deep fast. But I learned a lot reading all of this. :)

I would and I would definitely try SP. I'd go get that 802-40, since it's cheap!

Hopefully I won't be an EJ after this.. so many options..

Thanks a lot!

802-40 is a good choice for someone coming from inverted because it is not very expensive (in case you don't like it) and it forgives someone one using a more inverted technique (so you won't get frustrated immediately).  They are quite spinny.  Softer sponge makes it easier for an inverted player to use them, but it also makes it less disruptive for your opponent.  So if you like them, you goal will be to gradually transition to somewhat harder SP that are fast and more disruptive to your opponent.  A lot of top SP users over the years have used Spectol.  That is pretty hard to play with if you have never used SP before, though. 

smackman wrote: o ne thing I can do well with these pips is smack the ball away from the table (for a good result) ie rehitting their loops ...    If anything although I loose some spin with serves and loops, I gain is very hard smacks that fall off their bats, I seldom block but will push, hit and do some looping

Definitely if you do get backed up, and faced with spin, you need to try to hit through it, that is by far the most effective option.  Probably that is easier with SP on a forehand, but I can't say, I only used it on BH.  Pushing low, blocking low, and smacking anything high is a very good way to use SP.  You can loop too, but not with a lot of pace.  Really good players will soon enough figure out the spin and speed of a SP loop and feast off it.  Of course good SP players can be very deceptive about speed and placement of their loops too. 

SP serves can be incredibly effective, especially mixed in with inverted ones.

I should mention that not only did I use SP on my BH for several years, I play against it at least once and often twice a week for most of the last decade.

(Jay)  But my point in objecting to Baal's comment wasn't to discuss my play or (heaven forbid) promote hardbat.

Heaven forbid.

Mama don't want no hardbat men 'round here.
Mama don't want no hardbat men 'round here!
We don't care what mama don't allow,
We gon' play short pips OX anyhow,
Even though mama don't want no hardbat men 'round here.

Base on the idea of hitting and blocking one thing to remember is that it use difference stroke.

I once tried to transition from inverted to SP and tought by a SP pro, he gave me a sheet of speedy PO soft a recommend it as do it all rubber (he's using Dr.neu killer max).