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Single Ply hinoki blades

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    Posted: 02/03/2020 at 8:50pm
Hi,

Can someone please make a comparison between these two blades. I have pasted the links below. 


https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-speed-90-hinoki-9mm


https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-imperial-hinoki-2020-9mm


Moreover what are the characteristics of single ply hinoki blades? Please let me know.

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2020 at 9:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guni4you Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2020 at 9:34pm
Thanks. But you have any idea why is there any so much difference in price between the two different blades that i posted the links about. Both are made by darker and both are 9 mm 1 ply hinoki blades.
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

There is that thread for you, it's old but I am confident everything in it is still valid.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2020 at 9:36pm
marketing has something to do with it but it could be a tree older than the normal ones they generally use, where the grain might be smaller making the wood more valuable.

ps: I added links in my 1st answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2020 at 10:59pm
The way it is described the Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020 is more 'rare' and perhaps has 'tighter grains' compared to the Speed 90.  I believe tighter grains might be a reflection of the wood being older.

Rarity has its cost and you can see that with Black tag Viscarias, fishscale grain, ST handle 90g+ viscarias or even the W968 DHS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2020 at 11:45pm
With Hinoki more dense grains are associated with more power. It's not exactly true since their are many other factors. So what you are really paying for is appearance to a certain degree. No different if you buy a Les Paul guitar with a standard top vs something with a flame or quilted top. You will pay many hundred or thousands of dollars for the appearance but it might not sound or play any better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guni4you Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 12:06am
Have you ever played with 1 ply hinoki blade? I have heard that the feeling is the best.But they break easily and are very thick. Any experiences please share?
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

With Hinoki more dense grains are associated with more power. It's not exactly true since their are many other factors. So what you are really paying for is appearance to a certain degree. No different if you buy a Les Paul guitar with a standard top vs something with a flame or quilted top. You will pay many hundred or thousands of dollars for the appearance but it might not sound or play any better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 4:07am
Both are good for re-creational TT. Unless you are flat hitter, you want something more flexible for serious competition.

Comparing two of them - version 2020 sample which is on the picture does not look like it worth any more than "older" one. Lines are not evenly distributed, "eye" is not in the centre. It's just regular Darker blade. Will play faster than Nittaku Miyabi (due to thickness, and density) but that's about it.

If there are any differences in play properties between these two blades it will have absolutely no impact on your play. If they were of the same weight then I am not sure whether you would be able to tell them apart. You might, but not because of some differences in these models, simply because there are not two identical blades, especially 1ply.

Yet another collectible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 7:57am
Originally posted by guni4you guni4you wrote:

I have heard that the feeling is the best.But they break easily and are very thick. Any experiences please share?
I´ve played with Speed 90 FL for a while. It will not break unless drop it on the floor. Small hits in the table will not break the blade. Mine had some blued edges because I often hit the table and nothing happened to the blade.
The word can describe best playing with it is fun. It´s a pleasure looping with soft tension rubbers. Touch is not comparable to any other blade material. It´s stiff, very soft and fast.
But the reason I stopped playing with it is the playability. The blade is already thick and when I glued 2 max rubbers it became a super thick setup. It reduces the agility to change from BH to FH and the overall handling capacity.
Other than that I found harder rubbers didn´t match the blade. I´ve tried T05, Hexer HD and even H3 Neo and didn´t like the result.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 11:53am
Here is a China shopping site which sells HIGH price 600 year old Royal Darker single ply blades. I don't they play any better than my fish scale ds90 though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 4:46pm
The 40+ elephant ball's made single ply hinoki blades obsolete. 
Darker Speed 70

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

The 40+ elephant ball's made single ply hinoki blades obsolete. 
I respectfully disagree! How is it obsolete while Darker and other manufacturers are still making it? You need to try one to appreciate one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

The 40+ elephant ball's made single ply hinoki blades obsolete. 
I respectfully disagree! How is it obsolete while Darker and other manufacturers are still making it? You need to try one to appreciate one. 
I think he has several jpen 1-ply hinoki and he misses the celluloid 38mm times when KTS was a king.
Which ones does he own? I bet a KTS red label is one among them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by guni4you guni4you wrote:

Have you ever played with 1 ply hinoki blade? I have heard that the feeling is the best.But they break easily and are very thick. Any experiences please share?

I don't think there is a high end Hinoki blade I haven't tried. I have never had one break but the grain does run in one direction so it is possible(but rare)to split a blade. I have also heard of players just glueing them back together. You can also break a multi ply blade so.....take it with a grain of salt. They have a unique feel cause Hinoki is soft and stiff at the same time and once you get over 9mm are very very fast. If you want to try one start off with  a Miyabi or something from coach tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2020 at 7:45pm
I confirm that a 1-ply hinoki blade that breaks in 2 pieces can be glued back with gorilla wood glue and we will NOT feel a difference in play after the repair. We won't even SEE the repair if a good sanding job is done after the gluing. It's kind of amazing. The tricky part is to apply pressure sideways against the edges but with the right clamp it will work great. This is the best for the task I think.

jpenmaster means the Taiwanese "I love ping-pong" store when he mentions coach Tony. I bought many times from them and their pre-sale communication is awesome and almost instant when we take into account the time difference.


Edited by stiltt - 02/04/2020 at 7:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:26am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:


jpenmaster means the Taiwanese "I love ping-pong" store when he mentions coach Tony. I bought many times from them and their pre-sale communication is awesome and almost instant when we take into account the time difference.

I had similarly good experience. Wanted to try so called yellow cypress blade. I love ping pong did great job. Concluded that when it comes to hinoki material it must be Kiso, others are different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:49am
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Here is a China shopping site which sells HIGH price 600 year old Royal Darker single ply blades. I don't they play any better than my fish scale ds90 though.


Your blade is now worth a lot moreLOL than you probably thought. But seriously, Users of these blades never sell a good one.
Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:59am
Originally posted by guni4you guni4you wrote:

Hi,
Can someone please make a comparison between these two blades. I have pasted the links below.
https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-speed-90-hinoki-9mm
https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-imperial-hinoki-2020-9mm
Moreover what are the characteristics of single ply hinoki blades? Please let me know.
Thanks.


I have the first blade, the cheaper one, in my collection. In my opinion, this blade is clearly different from the traditional DS90. It is larger for one.
The more expensive,Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020 (9mm, (I think) appears to be fashioned off the traditional version. I think you should buy this version. If you don't like it, I will take it off your hands discounted 20% discount off what you you paid.Big smile. .........OK, you drive a hard bargain, 10%.

Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 11:41am
Anyone ever notice the edges on the Imperial model is not shaped at a unique curve like the ds90? But then again no other blade in  the world has this beautifully curved edge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 12:52pm
Yes, maybe it's only aesthetics but at that price I would want the full eye on the edges. I wonder what kind of player would spend that much money in a 1-ply hinoki and not wanting that eye or not being aware of it.

Here is an example from Kevin a.k.a American hinoki.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wappak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 8:46pm
i also have 1 ply cpen from coach tony of i love pingpong, its a taiwan yellow cypress hinoki 8mm, it feels harder than kiso and darker in color, they price this yellow cypress hinoki higher than their kiso, the thickness of the blade is thinner at 8mm because its harder maybe thats why their kiso are thicker at 9mm up, you can email coach tony, not all his hinoki blade are listed at their website, last time i got an email from him, he has beautiful 1 ply kiso at 9.5mm, that was a few months ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Here is a China shopping site which sells HIGH price 600 year old Royal Darker single ply blades. I don't they play any better than my fish scale ds90 though.


Your blade is now worth a lot moreLOL than you probably thought. But seriously, Users of these blades never sell a good one.
ouch! it is sad but true. If I know somebody has 3 blades of the same model, why would they sell me the best unless all 3 are identical. I only hope that maybe what the seller does not like will maybe please me. 

I bought an Apolonia from a French guy on matostt and he told me he has 3 so I had those exact thoughts. I was right to go for it because the packaging, instant shipping 5 days delivery and the blade was as good as the other 3 I had tested from a few club mates. In this case I decided I would go with the weight I like and Butterfly quality control and I was not deceived.  I think I would go the same way buying from Darker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Here is a China shopping site which sells HIGH price 600 year old Royal Darker single ply blades. I don't think they play any better than my fish scale ds90 though.


Your blade is now worth a lot moreLOL than you probably thought. But seriously, Users of these blades never sell a good one.
Thank you. I did received high offers for my blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yylik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 11:00pm
Anyone notice that Imperial Hinoki 2020 is not available in Japan market? I can't find in Iruru or other Japanese online store.

I have few darker speed 90s, one from China and others from Japan. The one from China has a "different" feel from the rest. There is a possibility of fake product, or I just got a lemon. Incidentally, my friend shared the same thoughts (both of us bought from the same China seller).

Just for sharing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2020 at 2:01am
I think TT11 will sell fake products when pigs fly. It is the biggest TT webshop in Europe, with the most choices and they are Darker's best and biggest reseller in Europe.
Darker knows exactly what stands in TT11'page.
Taking the risk of selling openly a fake one would be suicide for them.


Edited by kakapo - 02/06/2020 at 2:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2020 at 7:46am

Darker Imperial - 154*150 mm

Darker Speed 90 - 154*152 mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2020 at 8:43am
Originally posted by momus momus wrote:

Darker Imperial - 154*150 mm

Darker Speed 90 - 154*152 mm

Can you prove it with photos of ruler on blades? My ds90 is 150 x155mm.


Edited by hleett - 02/06/2020 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2020 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Originally posted by momus momus wrote:

Darker Imperial - 154*150 mm

Darker Speed 90 - 154*152 mm

Can you prove it with photos of ruler on blades? My ds90 is 150 x155mm.
Exactly. Speed 90 FL has a headsize 155x150mm. I cut 2mm of the handle to make headsize match BTY standards, 157x150, but had to deal with a short handle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2020 at 3:50am
Originally posted by momus momus wrote:

Darker Imperial - 154*150 mm

Darker Speed 90 - 154*152 mm


it's not my data. that's the answer they gave me from tabletennis11!
I don't own a "Darker Imperial" but I have 2 "Darker Speed 90", I'll measure them too and I'll report back
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2020 at 2:55pm
well, I just double-checked my spare Speed 90 ST 
(it's without rubbers brand new, so very easy to exact measure the headsize) 
it's 157 x 152 mm !!
bought from tt11 a year ago
(I can upload proof photos tomorrow if you like)


Edited by momus - 02/07/2020 at 2:56pm
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