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Stepping up T05: T05H or D05? |
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Posted: 01/01/2021 at 4:06pm |
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Hi all,
I'm contemplating stepping up T05 to a slightly harder option - I'm trying to find ways to improve speed, spin and power of my FH loops with keeping the blade the same (Timo Boll Spirit). Which would be a better idea? Tenergy 05 Hard or Dignics 05? It seems most pros have switched to the dignics series and noone played T05 Hard for long - there may be a reason behind that? Edited by Rollko - 01/01/2021 at 4:19pm |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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If you want more speed, spin and power than T05 you could try Xiom Omega VII Hyper. This rubber is a beast for half of the price.
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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T05H has a little more speed but less spin, D05 depending on your stroke might have more spin . Neither of these options offer all the things you are looking for just trade offs. Its the reason why many pro players still use T05. I would suggest a faster blade but its already fast. The things you are looking for will have to come from self improvement .
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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jpenmaster,
any blade ideas?
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Shiro
Member Joined: 03/15/2017 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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T05H is good if you want a harder option since the topsheet is the same as T05, just a harder sponge. D05 plays a bit different since the sponge is a lot harder (like a brick) and has a more linear arc.
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balldance
Super Member Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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T05H never worked for me. Somehow I couldn’t get spin from it. Imo it’s not an easy rubber to play with.
On the other hand, D05 is like a better version of T05 for me, a little bit more power and spin and much more consistent.
Edited by balldance - 01/01/2021 at 5:43pm |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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If you are coming from T05 I would suggest Dignics 80 over Dignics 05.
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OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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The only step up would be a H3N or H3, depending on how much you can tune.
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2337 |
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I've never gotten my D05 to work consistently on my FH. I prefer it on the BH, I really can't tell why, so it must be something to do with stroke mechanics. T05H is good and you will be able to hit the ball really hard without losing composure. But in the end you will be more consistent and probably win more points overall with plain old T05. I say this as T05 wins more of the non-glamorous points than T05H/D05 where more errors naturally occur. As to increase of power and spin, spend £100 on some one-to-one sessions with a good coach. Preferable one that is/was a power player himself. In other words, a coach that you may want to copy his loop and drive style. If you tell me what area of the country you live, I can give you some recommendations.
Edited by Tinykin - 01/02/2021 at 8:33am |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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longrange
Member Joined: 04/12/2019 Location: Genova Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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I didn't want to step in in the first thread but can't resist now ((: If you really need a gain in blade's power try xiom feel zx3. What a beast with t05 it is! I think it's faster than primorac carbon but quite a bit flexier and with more grab on the ball. The short game is... difficult but this pays off with enormous looping fun (and power) ((:
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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I've had an opportunity to try Dignics 05 on a Viscaria (a light one, 84g only) and it felt like I gained so much more control and placement, but lost power. The control and placement could have been thanks to slower speed, or maybe the D05 topsheet being grippier helped to manage spin better etc, I'm not sure.
I couldn't however earn points by sheer power (which is my preferred style), so T05H might be a better solution in this area. Does the hardness of T05H improve placement and control, as I observed in D05? Or is it the slower speed and grippier topsheet of D05 benefitting the placement and control? |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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If power is what you really want switch to Hinoki Carbon. Primorac Carbon is a good choice if that’s not fast enough Garaydia T5000, Sardius or a used Schlager Carbon. You can switch to Dignics 80 or Dignics 64.
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Shifu
Super Member Joined: 01/15/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 388 |
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If you have less spin with a harder sponge, then you’re simply not hitting hard enough. Pros use harder sponges because they softer ones bottom out with their technique and power.
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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It seems there are a few options:
A) ALC + T05 (too slow) B) ALC + T05H (possibly too difficult to loop against backspin?) C) ALC + D05 (possiby too slow?) D) Primorac Carbon + T05 (too soft?) E) Primorac Carbon + T05H (too fast?) F) Primorac Carbon + D05 (too bouncy?) Which one would be the best shot? To me, intuitively, option B) and F) sound the most interesting.
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Honestly, all of these are pretty fast and spinny combinations and the choice mostly comes down to personal preference and your technique.
Perhaps you should just add some heavy tape to your blade for a more head heavy balance and try that. Until Dignics came out, I played with T05H on an old Stiga Alround and had no problems looping winners, but that was with a fairly large head blade and two heavy rubbers on both sides. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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The majority of players on this forum will have less spin with T05 Hard than regular T05. I try and make suggestions for what I feel is the average player since pros would not be asking this type of question.
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Yes, that expression sums it up succinctly - 'looping winners' - that's what I'm after.
I'm using short pips on BH so a heavier option would be preferred - as far as I know D05 is as heavy as T05, with T05H and D09c being heavier. I assume if I were to choose between T05H and D09c, T05H would be a better option? What is the 'looping winner' potential of D09c? |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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That really depends on how you contact the ball. For some people it will be T05H and for others D09C. When I was trying to figure out which to stick with, it turned out that on softer blades I preferred T05H and on harder blades, D09C. Since D09C served better for me, I went with a harder blade and D09C. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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bes
Super Member Joined: 04/26/2014 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 201 |
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Warning - unpopular observation coming...
"Looping Winners" comes from technique and placement - not from magic rubber and blade combinations. Strong loopers can rip the ball with a 5-ply wood blade and unboosted chinese rubber. If you aren't generating enough power with ANY of the mentioned combos, you'll be much better off getting some coaching and working on your technique. I've been playing and coaching TT for a long time and have yet to see a blade and/or rubber swap turn anyone who wasn't a strong looper into one. You just can't buy a killer loop - you gotta learn/earn it.
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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True, but many are probably using shortened strokes without a whole lot of power. In those cases, something like tenergy helps a ton since it doesnt require as much power from the player. Compared to if you stick an h3 in their blade, and all their balls just fall into the net. So to outside observers... they may not be doing actual big loops. But in their own mind I'm sure the gimpy forearm swats feel like they are channeling ma long!
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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I agree, no rubber is gonna do the work of proper weight transfer, hip action and body mechanics. But that is when you're in position (which requires excellent anticipation as well as footwork), if you're not then the setup does matter quite a bit. For me my setup allows me to generate a huge ton of spin even if I'm in a suboptimal position that wins me quite a few points here and there which could add up to 1-2 points a game. With 5 ply wood and unboosted H3 for eg if you're out of position you're absolutely screwed and will lose the point. But I guess on the other hand, losing points fast this way will give you quite the impetus to improve your footwork
Edited by blahness - 01/02/2021 at 7:32pm |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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bes
Super Member Joined: 04/26/2014 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 201 |
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You make a very important statement - that can be interpreted/dealt with more than one way...
"Compared to if you stick an h3 in their blade, and all their balls just fall into the net." Is it better for the player (let's say development in 6 months or 1 year) to: A)Have this player work with a decent coach and sort out their technique until the H3 on a slow blade is "perfectly functional" or better? B)Recommend they get a $250+ blade and $150+ worth of rubber hoping that their current pokes, punches, jabs, slaps, and whatever occasionally hit the table? I've seen this situation quite a few times, and the results are VERY clear - close to 100%. Folks who do something like option "A" above almost always end up doing much better very quickly. A decent coach should be able to get almost anyone hitting decent forehands with even slow, unpopular equipment in a couple hours. The players who go with option "B" usually end up fighting their EJ battle for years with relatively little actual improvement. A few players to both "A" and "B", which is fine too. This is all in "degrees" - you brought up players who literally can't hit the ball over the net with unboosted H3. It is true to a degree even as playing level gets quite high. To be fair, there are some darn good players that do a lot "wrong" from a "strokes and coaching" point of view - but they aren't super common. I've learned that some folks quite literally can't help themselves - they just HAVE to have the "Best" - even though there really is no "universal best" in TT (or much else in life). bes |
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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It sounds more like you are doing amateur coaching, hoping for them to reach a higher level. I'm talking more about stuckers... players who have been doing this game a long time and haven't improved... in 5 or 10 years! They maxed out where they feel comfortable and remain there. Even though they play 3-5 times a week! You could freeze time, come back in 50 years and they'd still be the same level.
I think you give good analysis and would love for you to tear my ass apart, like you did the other guy
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bes
Super Member Joined: 04/26/2014 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 201 |
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Heeey! I don't recall tearing anyone apart... I certainly didn't mean too! I'm sorry if it came across like I did - it certainly wasn't my intent. I try to provide constructive analyses.
I have VAST respect for the players who post match videos. I don't care if they are beginners, 1200, 1700, or well over 2000 - I always try to find things they do well, and things they might want to work on. In fact, unless I have some fairly specific recommendation, I very rarely comment at all. I admit to getting a bit snarky about some EJ issues, but I've been there and done that too in the past. bes
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Heeey! You have EJ issues too! I've seen you change your blade at least once during the last decade... On a more serious note, I am not a terribly good player, but it so happens I know a little bit about hitting big loops and most medium fast modern equipment is perfectly sufficient as long the rubbers do not top out. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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