Tactics against fishers?

As my game has developed and started to take on more definitive strengths and weaknesses and a more clear overall strategy, I have found that I have the most trouble with players who primarily fish. I'd label myself a close to the table attacker and more of a cannon than a machine gun.

I find that fishing players tend to put the ball half long around the middle then take two steps back almost automatically. If I try to keep it short, the ball has come out deep enough that my return gives them adequate time to step back in and if I try to kill it they are far enough back that they have time to start fishing. Since the return is around the middle, it's pretty high risk to try and place the ball beyond the corner (at least with any sort of decent spin and speed at my level). If it is inside of the corner the angle makes it easy to get to. I find myself being forced into playing their game, they fish from mid distance and I take all the risk looping and expending energy, and not having a clear counter-fishing strategy in my head.

So, close to the table players, what are your tactics to counter fishing efficiently?

take a step back and smash to the corners or try and get it off the bounce to the corners. You can always go short if you notice they take steps back immediately. 

Drop it short like Waldner!

If you're just hitting topspins that he is able to return at mid distance, then you are just playing his game.  You have to make him play your game.  Figure out a way to force him to pop up the ball so you can finish the point in 3-5 ball exchanges...that's what Ma Lin would do...

Vary the spin, go for heavy topspin, less pace, this makes it difficult for him to judge the length.

BMonkey wrote: As my game has developed and started to take on more definitive strengths and weaknesses and a more clear overall strategy, I have found that I have the most trouble with players who primarily fish. I'd label myself a close to the table attacker and more of a cannon than a machine gun. I find that fishing players tend to put the ball half long around the middle then take two steps back almost automatically. If I try to keep it short, the ball has come out deep enough that my return gives them adequate time to step back in and if I try to kill it they are far enough back that they have time to start fishing. Since the return is around the middle, it's pretty high risk to try and place the ball beyond the corner (at least with any sort of decent spin and speed at my level). If it is inside of the corner the angle makes it easy to get to. I find myself being forced into playing their game, they fish from mid distance and I take all the risk looping and expending energy, and not having a clear counter-fishing strategy in my head.So, close to the table players, what are your tactics to counter fishing efficiently?

Hi monkey
2 things that may help:-

1. Be patient and learn to bide your time
2. Kill to the body/elbow in preference to aiming at the wings. Its the most common mistake against defence top or chop to aim to hit to the wings in an attempt to go beyond defenders reach. In fact this just gives them room to stroke. Instead go to jam them with the body shot, you'll notice the difference straight away.   

If they want you to play their game, then play their game!  In a fishing/smashing rally, the smasher is at an advantage, so you WANT to play their game.  If energy is a problem, then you should condition better.  If you have good touch, then you can develop a good dropshot game too to make them expend a ton of energy as well.

I don't have an occasion to play against them all that often, but my vote goes to attacking the ball off the bounce; should be quite easy cos there is a plenty of time for preparing a stroke, though probably needs some training because timing is quite different from normal rallying stroke. 

The fishers I play in my local clubs are rated 1500-1700 and are very mobile, i.e. they can usually reach slams directed to the corners. My most effective weapon against them has been to slam with more sidespin than topspin which causes the ball to curve into their bodies (I'm a righty). This works somewhat against 2000+ rated players, too, but it's rare that I can force such players off the table.

One of my sparring partners is a fisher and sometimes chopper.

Speedplay wrote: Variation. Don't always attack with full force, make some attacks loaded with spin, others all out for speed. Attack the body, especially when you get the chance to smash with good speed. Drop shots to force them to move back and forth. Take the ball as early as possible, as this steals a lot of time for them. Work the angles. I know, this sounds like a contradiction to attacking their body, but you can do both (not at the same time, obviously) with good success. Aim all your attacks to one side and try to build on that angle as much as possible, then go for the quick winner in the other corner.

BH-Man wrote: ... Another thing to consider is to NOT crowd the table. if the fisher manages to land it very deep, you will have a very difficult time syncing the timing of your shot. It is better to stand 1/2 step back and move in if needed.

Absolutely agree with this, have learned this the hard way several times against good fishers.

BH-Man,

something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEUqDfeqOKs

@Mods, why isn't my links working??? I know, I suck at computers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEUqDfeqOKs

http://youtu.be/jEUqDfeqOKs

Still don't work, it says the page does not exists, but when I cut and paste the link, it works.

if you can't constantly attack medium high balls, that is something you really need to work on, unless you like being lobbed to death. forget strategy, if you can't attack well, you can't do anything. close to table players tend to spaz out when balls go up. wait for it, and focus getting in on the table. as you get more comfortable, add the tnt.