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The Crossover point
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A good practice for this is, is what I call 'slow-mo'.
partners agree to play any shot anywhere but at half pace concentrating on placement.So both players are continually trying to get their partner off balance. As you get better at it the speed probably goes up a bit.
Great for anticipation footwork and even fitness as rallies can be quite long
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Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Its one reason why players play off the table, you have more time to play a stroke if the incoming ball is to your crossover point, so especially at higher levels of play, its a frequent target in the short game at the beginning of a point, to make a player have to move to get an attacking stroke in, even when he is in optimum position. As PPP says, to the crossover then wide into the hole you have made, or to the opposite wing to create a switch. When a 'free ball' presents itself, like a ball that has clipped the net and is close to the net easy, or on a poor return of serve, flicking or driving into the crossover is often a better option than playing the wings, where a guessed reaction by your opponent can land you in unexpected trouble. As I am always preaching, never play any shot as an entity, but always as if the ball will come back.
I thought of this solution too for the OP, but the OP said he's playing short pips on the forehand. I don't think dropping off the table would be a good idea with short pips.
 Yep, it comes with his territory, and decent tactician is going to hit him in the crossover point when ever they can.
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There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)

She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.
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One thing that comes from this crossover 'focus', is how often playing immediately to a wing can be a poor choice, because its right into the opponents natural swing, and going wider may not be on. So often going to the elbow is the best option, for getting your opponent on the move.
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Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)

She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.

I think we call that "The Coaches Backhand" which we develop if we coach beginners all day.

Edited by pingpongpaddy - 11/20/2013 at 1:24pm
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I like how FZD and YA respond to crossover point shots. 
I remember one point of the german final when dima countered a topspin with a ridiculous BH rip that had topspin and sidespin and landed right under the right elbow of FZD. This shot will yield a point 100% of the time in europe, and 99% of the time in china.
FZD ducked a little and bent his body to the left and counter ripped it.

The commentator was quiet and nobody from the public applauded. Everybody thought that it's simply unfair for Dima to lose a point after that shot. These things should not happen in TT. The reactions of these young chinese players breach the genetic limitations of europeans. This is not skill any more.. there is no way Dima can learn this with practice.. 

Let me see if I can find tha point


Edited by assiduous - 11/20/2013 at 1:36pm
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Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)

She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.

I think we call that "The Coaches Backhand" which we develop if we coach beginners all day.

anyone have a video of this?
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Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)

She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.

I think we call that "The Coaches Backhand" which we develop if we coach beginners all day.
 
 
anyone have a video of this?
 
If you have had practice rallies with a coach with a decent backhand blocking to you repeatedly, you know exactly what PPP means even without a video.  The coach is used to inconsistently placed shots flying all over the place while he is primed to block with his backhand  so he moves his backhand to block various shots even when the shot is awkwardly received by the backhand (paddle upside down, elbow inside out, the shot should have been a forehand shot etc.) and because he is coaching, he is also developing better control over blocking that awkward shot placement and it magically becomes a stroke that can actually be used to play in a real match.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)

She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.

I think we call that "The Coaches Backhand" which we develop if we coach beginners all day.
 
 
anyone have a video of this?
 
If you have had practice rallies with a coach with a decent backhand blocking to you repeatedly, you know exactly what PPP means even without a video.  The coach is used to inconsistently placed shots flying all over the place while he is primed to block with his backhand  so he moves his backhand to block various shots even when the shot is awkwardly received by the backhand (paddle upside down, elbow inside out, the shot should have been a forehand shot etc.) and because he is coaching, he is also developing better control over blocking that awkward shot placement and it magically becomes a stroke that can actually be used to play in a real match.
 I coach loads but also still still play, so I know exactly the scenario, but I try to keep on my toes by taking the erratic spread with the correct stroke, keeps me sharp I can tell you.
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Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)


She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.

I think we call that "The Coaches Backhand" which we develop if we coach beginners all day.

 

 

anyone have a video of this?

 


If you have had practice rallies with a coach with a decent backhand blocking to you repeatedly, you know exactly what PPP means even without a video.  The coach is used to inconsistently placed shots flying all over the place while he is primed to block with his backhand  so he moves his backhand to block various shots even when the shot is awkwardly received by the backhand (paddle upside down, elbow inside out, the shot should have been a forehand shot etc.) and because he is coaching, he is also developing better control over blocking that awkward shot placement and it magically becomes a stroke that can actually be used to play in a real match.

 I coach loads but also still still play, so I know exactly the scenario, but I try to keep on my toes by taking the erratic spread with the correct stroke, keeps me sharp I can tell you.

Once I got to 60, I only do the the footwork with the stronger pupils -somethings got to give!
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Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

The reactions of these young chinese players breach the genetic limitations of europeans. This is not skill any more.



Sigh.  Not sure what to even say at this point, I hesitated to say anything in hopes people might just gloss over this.  Dude, do you actually read what you write before hitting send?  Well, I am not going to erase it or change it or say anything else.  You wrote it, you own it.
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Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

I like how FZD and YA respond to crossover point shots. 
I remember one point of the german final when dima countered a topspin with a ridiculous BH rip that had topspin and sidespin and landed right under the right elbow of FZD. This shot will yield a point 100% of the time in europe, and 99% of the time in china.
FZD ducked a little and bent his body to the left and counter ripped it.

The commentator was quiet and nobody from the public applauded. Everybody thought that it's simply unfair for Dima to lose a point after that shot. These things should not happen in TT. The reactions of these young chinese players breach the genetic limitations of europeans. This is not skill any more.. there is no way Dima can learn this with practice.. 

Let me see if I can find tha point


Sir, you have an unmatched talent for posting nonsense, and thoroughly misunderstanding what is good tt or not.
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Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

This shot will yield a point 100% of the time in europe, and 99% of the time in china.


 Gooood, only 1% behind now in yurope.
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From movement perspective, I've used this drill to train the movements around the crossover (video at 4:41. Sorry couldn't figure out how to embed the time of the video).

From tactics however, its hard to catch someone at a crossover, but it is easier to manipulate the opponent to move into an area where the next shot will most likely end up in the cross over.






Edited by Leshxa - 11/20/2013 at 4:12pm
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Watching the crossover practice: of course its normal that the player moves, so it doesnt actually get you at your Elbow. Its the following shot by the feeder which is key, as it should be taking advantage of the space made to make you move, and your practice as the mover to move and keep balance.
In a way this is a bit like a ladder technique in Go. Its a tactic which is working all the time but you never see it happen:-
Pupil:- I keep trying to hit his elbow, but he keeps moving?
Coach:- What he moved!? Now take Advantage!
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Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

There is this one woman coach I used to watch at a club in Shenzhen, China. Used to be on the Chinese National team at the junior level. She is in her thirties now and doesn't play but still seems pretty good (2500+?) with that effortlessness that you know means she was much higher level when active. (I believe she coaches out of sheer boredom since you can tell her husband is rather rich.)

She is a shake hands player (effortless two-winged looper). Anyway, I was watching amateurs rip loop after loop into her crossover point and she has this strange way of dangling the paddle almost vertically with high elbow at that crossover point. The ball is jammed fairly close to her body at that point and it sure seems like it would be very awkward for her as the loop is loaded with topspin. But she in a very relaxed manner smacks the ball back incredibly reliably (oftentimes for a winner). I know she is being lazy, after all it's just an amateur on the other side of the table. I don't know how she learned this stroke but it seems like it is incredibly useful. I wished I had video-ed it.

ya i use to do this when i played SH, quite a surprisingly high percentage shot that often surprises opponents… i have decided other then working on my foot work i am just gonna block with TPB or hit with a straight down to up motion, i think this will work well with my sp pehhold

i have also seen SH players lean right and hold the paddle like a mirror and block it to the wide FH corner of the oponent, which then they move to the right and start FH to FH counter loop  
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Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

So recently i am learning and pursuing the rpb a little bit more seriously and i am realizing that the crossover point of using rpb is just awkward, like the space around the right side of my body (i am a righty).

Of course being an amateur and big i do not have great mobility! i do work on my footwork and yes i would like to step around and either hit it with my fh or bh every time but that is a long shot right now!

So here is the question, i am not looking for advice as if i am gonna turn pro one day, but a sort of a strategy or a mindset of approach to minimize the crossover point weakness?  
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