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Warning about Paypal as gift (friends and family) |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Another user has used the PayPal Friends and Family option to buy a blade that as yet he has not received. He has no recourse and will not get his money back.
Be smart. Don't use the "Friends and Family" option (the gift option). |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Why would a buyer give up all protection to save a few bucks? Are you nuts?
If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for your moderator, who has to referee disputes. It's not fun. |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Another member has gotten into a jam using PayPal gift option with a new member here who is probably a scammer.
Be careful! |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Several buyers managed to avoid being ripped off by our latest scammer because they took my advice and did not use Paypal as a gift (friends and family option).
As they say in boxing, "Protect yourselves at all times". Good advice. They also say, "Obey my commands at all times". That is also good advice! |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Seriously, do not use the Paypal gift option. Even if someone has what appears to be good feedback here, you are taking a risk.
The last couple of days we have another example of someone who paid by the Paypal gift option and is now unhappy because he appears to be out several hundred US dollars in what looks pretty convincingly like a scam from someone who had made successful transactions here with other people. Circumstances change. Someone who has had successful transactions in the past may still do something unexpected. I think the people here who buy and sell the most, the most reliable people, the ones who you really can count on here to be completely honest, would agree with me on this. Don't use the paypal gift option. Sellers, if for reasons Cole mentions above you are concerned about shipping to countries where you cannot track the package, do not sell to people in those countries. |
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Henry0608 ![]() Member ![]() Joined: 08/28/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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Good topic. Pay pal by friend should not recommend for buyers.
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6551 |
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yeah, that's silly
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Yes, those would be special cases and you would be perfectly justified there. But people on this forum have been insisting on buyers using paypal as a gift for shipments within North America. I don't believe that is reasonable. |
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joshuadn11 ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/07/2015 Location: Fountain Valley Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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usually the seller would ask for "gift" or personal/goods because they won't have to pay some fee.
But like the post #angelleye said above, it's good to have at least some tracking number. |
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Joshie de GoIden
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ttping85 ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1034 |
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The custom declaration number can give you minimal tracking of your package abroad on uses website even when you didn't pay for tracking. You can't follow the whole shipping process but at least it says when it was shipped, when it left the US and when it was delivered.
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6551 |
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My only point being, I've asked customers to send as gift before, and there are reasons why. As you say, they can make the decision.
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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angelleye ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 08/05/2014 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Well then you're back to the decision of risk vs. reward. It's far from an unsolvable problem, though.
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6551 |
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Nobody wants to pay for that. They want it po cheap but you eat the risk. It's just not feasible for smaller orders.
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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angelleye ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 08/05/2014 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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The simple solution to that is to ship with a trackable service. USPS doesn't track well. UPS and FedEx do.
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cole_ely ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6551 |
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I don't think sellers are always doing this because of the 3.5% fee. I think they're doing it because paypal offers them no protection at all on international shipments that are untraceable.
For example, I've lost a lot of packages to India and a few to Israel and Turkey, and a couple to South America. There is no postal tracking to those countries. Therefore, the buyer is free to claim they never got it and paypal will immediately refund their money upon complaint. However many sellers you may think are out there ripping people off, I can promise you there's 10x the number of buyers. In other instances, I can imagine the buyer gets frustrated over not receiving the package. They file a claim or the sender refunds on request. Legit at the time. Then the package shows up from customs a month or two later. There's no tracking. How many customers are going to be honest enough to tell the seller that so far after the refund. In my experience, exactly none. I've been called a racist against a number of countries. Sorry, it's not the country I'm prejudice against. I just don't trust their postal systems. It's a really tough spot for sellers. So before you make a judgement, put yourself in their place. |
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W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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tommyzai ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Prescott AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9194 |
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I no longer pay as $ to friends or family or ask others to pay me in this fashion unless they are friends or family. I should mention, however, there are a handful of MYTT members that I consider friends, many of which have either visited me or I visited them . . . Guangdong, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, New York, Vegas, etc.
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For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
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the_theologian ![]() Premier Member ![]() Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3885 |
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+1 |
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Hayabusa Zi ST/FH:H3-50med/BH:GoldArc5-42.5-2.0
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Protect yourself at all times, and if you have doubts about a seller don't make a deal. Many of the people who sell here have long track records and you can find threads about them. These are people who are scrupulously honest. Be careful with people who are new to the forum or for whom there is not much history. Do not use the Paypal gift option with people you do not know well.
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Check the "warning about scam" thread above this one for a case study. See pages 2 and 3.
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kitzter ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/26/2011 Location: PI Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Hi,
I think if payment is done by invoice/bill, there will be buyers protection. Correct me if i'm wrong.
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BTY MPS/T05/Tibhar Grass Dtecs & SUPERBLOCK OxMy feedback
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tommyzai ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Prescott AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9194 |
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Thanks, Viva!
And, I agree with you. Avoid $ as friend/family if you don't know the person . . . be smart! Edited by tommyzai - 08/08/2014 at 12:14am |
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For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
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viva ![]() Silver Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 620 |
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Tommy if I ever have a transaction with you I will pay as family/friend to you and a few other respected members. Trouble arises with new people trying to scam everyone.
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tommyzai ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Prescott AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9194 |
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I will no longer ask other members, unless it's one of my close buddies, to pay as $ to family/friends. It places both parties in an awkward position.
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For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
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kindof99 ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3099 |
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Actually, most sales here are at about -10% ebay prices (ebay fee). If someone sells at ebay, they need to pay paypal fee as well. So sellers do not lose money at all.
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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People can work it out as part of the negotiation. But I would still suggest to a buyer that if a seller is demanding payment as a gift, it is an unreasonable request.
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mhnh007 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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What is the cost to seller if buyer pays as payment? I propose seller add 2% to what they expect to receive to the cost, kind of split the cost with the buyer. As a buyer I don't mind paying 2% extra for a peace of mind, specially by paying as gift I already have to add some fee, so the 2% is nothing. As a seller you may get a little less than if the payment is as gift, but on the other hand you may get more expose to new buyers.
Edited by mhnh007 - 08/07/2014 at 9:32am |
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angelleye ![]() Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 08/05/2014 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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There is when you specify cc as the funding source. The only way to avoid the fee with personal or gift payments is to pay with PayPal or bank funds.
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Antuan ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 08/14/2012 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 3242 |
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If you pay as gift there is no fee.
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kindof99 ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3099 |
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if buyer uses cc to pay as a gift,the buyer needs to pay fee.
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14080 |
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Yes, it could have that effect, but would someone be able to constantly dispute every time they buy something? You have definitely identified something that we have to also be aware of. At the end of the day, this is the internet, and you enter into transactions here at your own risk. The moderators and owner of this forum are not responsible for the risks that you take here. We do our best to identify and ban scammers and people who cause problems, but our ability to do that has limits. Also, this is another reason why we are not making this a hard and fast rule. |
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