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why did lebesson complain? |
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stiltt ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Pongville, WA Status: Offline Points: 16527 |
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What a fascinating conversation, I feel honored to belong to a community that enlightens the world with its knowledge and wisdom, because it is obvious to me that any independent observer would see this thread as part of the drive towards table tennis success. Let's stand proud for who we are!
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 13538 |
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And also a thread that promotes the world-wide propagation of Rule 88!
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NextLevel ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13090 |
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I remember the last time that I pointed out that you sometimes seem not to argue in good faith and you took offense. It might not be apparent to you, but your behavior here is the kind of thing I am talking about. You are trying to use abstruse logic to argue against a commonsense interpretation of what you wrote.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 190 FH: Tibhar MX-K 2.1 B BH: Tibhar MX-K 2.1 R Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. |
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tom ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 2257 |
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tom ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 2257 |
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tom ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 2257 |
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stiltt ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Pongville, WA Status: Offline Points: 16527 |
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edit: I was on my way to actually remember what rule 88 is but I encountered a road block, several of them, searching for "the rules" gives too many hits to this thread! I am chasing my tail; not to worry, I am in good company! edit: found it! how funny, the rule 88 doesn't exist, just like the rule that says what to do when a gentle girl says sorry in the middle of the point. BTW I was with lebesson because many times I gave my point away for that same reason and I did not know better but I am logically with pongfu now: if it's an issue (in this case Lebesson protests but should he?), the best answer is a let. Let's note that from a "living-together-in-peace-while-playing-ping-pong" perspective, it's also the best answer. The problem is the context is professional table tennis, they make a living, every point counts, it's not fun, it's business, it's war, it's "you or me."
Edited by stiltt - 11/19/2019 at 3:12pm |
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 13538 |
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Rule 88 is zen, like the sound of one hand clapping.
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NextLevel ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13090 |
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Logically, saying that I am going to France is the same as I am going to France or Germany. Of course, this is not the common sense meaning but tom is arguing in good faith using formal logic.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 190 FH: Tibhar MX-K 2.1 B BH: Tibhar MX-K 2.1 R Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. |
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NextLevel ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 13090 |
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I await your book, Zen and the Art of Table Tennis.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 190 FH: Tibhar MX-K 2.1 B BH: Tibhar MX-K 2.1 R Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. |
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stiltt ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Pongville, WA Status: Offline Points: 16527 |
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zen has got to be about zero something; like zero anger, zero bullshit. Moto Zéro has electric bikes out, no maintenance! Or almost not. Far less for sure, that has got to be zen.
Moto zéro, back pack with a paddle, do we need more?
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Mytoman ![]() Member ![]() Joined: 05/28/2010 Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Why is this even å discussion? Point to Japan, or maybe a let. Read chapter2 and 3. No need for clarification, the rule is clear. And: this situation (disturbance on incoming ball) is different from the situation in the other thread.
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Baal ![]() Forum Moderator ![]() Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 13538 |
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It is all in The Rules.
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JeanPhillippe ![]() Beginner ![]() Joined: 11/19/2019 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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You very wrong. Hina Hayata create disturbing using purposely. I am sorry. Why was Lebasson the bad man , I am not understanding Only Hina must given at least 3 months suspendation by Australian Table Tennis
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balldance ![]() Super Member ![]() Joined: 01/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Lebesson, is that you? Hayata did it on purpose? ![]() ![]() Someone pls tell me not all French are like this... |
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pongfugrasshopper ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2036 |
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He's joking
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chop4ever ![]() Silver Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 790 |
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Yes, it is actually a book (very short) with that name. Search on Amazon.
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Equipment Alchemist
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pongfugrasshopper ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2036 |
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Oh wow... you were being serious. You really think she deserves a 3 month suspension for saying "sorry" in a normal voice? Wow... just.... wow.
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DonnOlsen ![]() Silver Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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Hi,
Another element of perspective on this matter pertains to the definition and meaning of "disturbance." That is, is a disturbance an objective event independent of the effect on the players, or is it a consequence of a player being "disturbed." In this case with Lebesson, a behavioral option available to him was to not respond to the shot; to stop and not execute his stroke mechanism on the net ball, then turn to the umpire and argue his "disturbance." One may argue that by executing his stroke mechanism, he was not disturbed, thus a disturbance did not occur. From the detailed information provided in the exceptionally fine postings in this thread, had he done so, the umpire should have called a let. In general, a disturbance is understood to be an objective event that is independent of the effect on the players. When an invading ball enters the court, a let is automatically called completely irrespective of the effect of the invading ball on the players. If this chain of logic supporting the consideration of the effect on the player as a determinant of the declaration of a "disturbance," is it then the case that table tennis has two forms, two varieties of disturbances, one disturbance variety an objective event judged independent on the effect on the players, and a second disturbance variety based upon a discernible effect on the players? Thanks for the great posting!
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Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.
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pongfugrasshopper ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2036 |
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For me, I've had a number of times when I returned an edge or net with the opponent prematurely saying sorry. I've always just played on sometimes winning sometimes losing, but never gave any thought to someone saying sorry as a disturbance. To me, a normal voice sorry is all part of the game since it's pretty common on a net/edge. I think BRS had a good point earlier in this thread: Unless it's something egregious, I say play on. But I can understand if an umpire views it as a disturbance (secondary form in your post) and decides to call a let.
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stiltt ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Pongville, WA Status: Offline Points: 16527 |
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Edited by stiltt - 11/20/2019 at 10:40am |
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tom ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 2257 |
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amateur ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 02/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4002 |
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And no Frenchman would spell "Phillippe" with two L. Also, the handle is surely an allusion to Philou Gatien, for those old enough to remember him.
Edited by amateur - 11/20/2019 at 11:53am |
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Jolan ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 01/14/2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1255 |
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It looks to me that there were no disturbance. Lebesson played the ball as good as he was able to and didn't seem "disturbed" at any moment of his motion. It's only when he realised that his ball was going to be killed by Harimoto that he started the argument. Hayata said "sorry" just because she genuinely thought the point was over and didn't mean to create any disturbance. The two japanese players didn't even bother giving the point to the french pair. Well done Japan, shame on Lebesson.
By the way, I am french...
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Neottec Hinoki Carbon
Victas V>01 Limber 1.8mm DHS G888 1.8mm |
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stiltt ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Pongville, WA Status: Offline Points: 16527 |
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The sad part is he gets the bad rep but he lost anyway. Doing that right after winning his 1st pro tour title ever at the Belarus open is not very smart but in the heat of the moment, people can do such things. I won't say it reveals who they really are because it is not necessarily true, he may acknowledge he was an ass just like we all are sometimes, I know I am.
My theory is he is shy with women, he likes Hina Hayata and wanted her attention but did not know how to proceed. He should take lessons from Sir Rich: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8zwIphm5r4
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pingpungpeng ![]() Silver Member ![]() Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 869 |
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he didn't do anything wrong. 1- he thinks players should not talk during a point 2- hayata talks during a point 3- he complains also you guys should stop thinking you are the center of the world. most of the tt community around the world doesn't even know this forum exists.
Edited by pingpungpeng - 11/20/2019 at 1:48pm |
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stiltt ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Pongville, WA Status: Offline Points: 16527 |
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You don't make much sense though; 1st, thinking we are the center of the world is totally natural, it is due to the awareness of our mortal condition. Also, not knowing if aliens exist doesn't prevent us from trying to reach them, we even send them dvds with our galactic coordinates (which is dangerous if the Fermi paradox resolving dark forest theory is true).
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kolevtt ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: Paris Status: Offline Points: 2243 |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Completely agree with you, Jean! No doubt he is pretty good player, but here exactly in this situation he didn't acted well. I could once again add only that - the shame must be separated between Emo and the fake Umpire. At his place I will retire for a period. |
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blahness ![]() Premier Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 3200 |
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Lebesson was playing unfair by making a fuss about it. Hayata and Harimoto should have fought the call but I guess it's an unimportant tournament anyway...
I still remember the ridiculous delayed let call in the WTTC women doubles... Unfortunately it's a dog eat dog world. You gotta fight fire with fire and stand up for your own rights. There's just too many bullies in TT who need to get a taste of their own medicine.
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Hurricane Long 5 FH: Hurricane 8 BH: TinArc 5 |
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pongfugrasshopper ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 03/22/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2036 |
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You could end up losing your focus if you spend too much time protesting (possibly to no avail). Japan was ahead still and I can understand not wanting to lose that momentum.
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