Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - NEW BH Topspin Tutorial!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

NEW BH Topspin Tutorial!

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: NEW BH Topspin Tutorial!
    Posted: 10/06/2020 at 12:05am
Here's a good video on the fundamentals of the backhand counter topspin. Please watch and share with friends!

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 3776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 4:30am
You didn't touch on the squatting/unsquatting action for BH (hinge action from the hips) which was absolutely crucial to power generation :(
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Hurricane 3 Provincial Blue Sponge
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

You didn't touch on the squatting/unsquatting action for BH (hinge action from the hips) which was absolutely crucial to power generation :(
 

I did mention that you need to rotate your hips into the ball for power. Probably could’ve talked about it in more detail. What exactly do you mean by squat/unsquat? 
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6490
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 1:26pm
I have enjoyed both posts and have recommended the fh vid to a couple of players

Maybe if you twerk right before impact it could be  a new technique.


Edited by cole_ely - 10/06/2020 at 1:28pm
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 3776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

You didn't touch on the squatting/unsquatting action for BH (hinge action from the hips) which was absolutely crucial to power generation :(
 

I did mention that you need to rotate your hips into the ball for power. Probably could’ve talked about it in more detail. What exactly do you mean by squat/unsquat? 

Literally the action of squatting down, and then coming back up and bringing the stomach forwards. Pretty much all modern players have this action....
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Hurricane 3 Provincial Blue Sponge
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

You didn't touch on the squatting/unsquatting action for BH (hinge action from the hips) which was absolutely crucial to power generation :(
 

I did mention that you need to rotate your hips into the ball for power. Probably could’ve talked about it in more detail. What exactly do you mean by squat/unsquat? 

Literally the action of squatting down, and then coming back up and bringing the stomach forwards. Pretty much all modern players have this action....

I don’t agree that this is a correct stroke. Could you link me a video where you see the squatting? I think hip rotation is much more important than going down to up.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 3776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 8:15pm
Hmm I found that without this movement it's super hard to add real quality on the BH topspin (especially heavy spin)...coz the legs are after all the most powerful part of the human body. It's probably the most evident from Timo Boll's BH stroke...





-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Hurricane 3 Provincial Blue Sponge
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Hmm I found that without this movement it's super hard to add real quality on the BH topspin (especially heavy spin)...coz the legs are after all the most powerful part of the human body. It's probably the most evident from Timo Boll's BH stroke...






I see, I agree that your legs should be engaged during backhand. Especially to drive the ball forward, and use your legs to help rotate your hips. I just don't think this corresponds to "squatting/unsquatting." The power in timo's stroke is from legs to rotate hips and core, not from the squatting motion. I think I may have misunderstood what you meant by squatting because I definitely agree that we should be using legs.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 3776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2020 at 8:30pm
Hmm I think some players forego the rotation (for eg Harimoto) for more speed (to allow them to take the ball earlier), but still use the squat/unsquat movement...

But yeah for max power you want everything (squat/unsquat + hip rotation)
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Hurricane 3 Provincial Blue Sponge
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
ghostzen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/15/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 6:13am
Legs, hips (some use a lot some not so much) and core for me with a free flowing relaxed stoke. As a general rule I've found power comes from the ground up if this makes sense. Legs, (Some use alot of hips) core and arm. If you mean drop your weight to the seat while using your legs I can understand but I not so much the other sorry to say on this one. It's a nuance at best.


Edited by ghostzen - 10/07/2020 at 6:27am
Back to Top
Valiantsin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/21/2020
Location: OFallon
Status: Offline
Points: 127
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 9:20am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Legs, hips (some use a lot some not so much) and core for me with a free flowing relaxed stoke. As a general rule I've found power comes from the ground up if this makes sense. Legs, (Some use alot of hips) core and arm. If you mean drop your weight to the seat while using your legs I can understand but I not so much the other sorry to say on this one. It's a nuance at best.
Nuance or not but such little jumpy gives tempo
Back to Top
ghostzen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/15/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Legs, hips (some use a lot some not so much) and core for me with a free flowing relaxed stoke. As a general rule I've found power comes from the ground up if this makes sense. Legs, (Some use alot of hips) core and arm. If you mean drop your weight to the seat while using your legs I can understand but I not so much the other sorry to say on this one. It's a nuance at best.
Nuance or not but such little jumpy gives tempo



From the engaged legs and upper muscles,core and hips I can see 100% to create quality.


Edited by ghostzen - 10/07/2020 at 10:57am
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6490
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 10:43am
It's not really important to the point, but I think our strongest muscle may be our jaws or maybe our diaphragm.  I can find those on the internet, plus tongue and heart.

I don't think it's the legs. It TT terms I bet it's the diaphragm. Glutes are also listed, which go to legs.




Edited by cole_ely - 10/07/2020 at 10:53am
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
ghostzen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/15/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 10:56am
One of them is the Masseter if i've spelt that correctly! Thumbs UpThumbs Down  Heart for dynamic strength i guess and calf with the glutes. knowledge from me on this... who would have guessed!


Back to Top
BH-Man View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 12:13pm
It all depends on how you define strong.

Is it overall ability for total amount of power? Then likely legs

Is it power per size? Jaw sounds like a great candidate

is it resiliancy and ability to endure? Heart sounds like it there. 
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc
Back to Top
BH-Man View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 12:21pm
There are so many different BH shots and possible from different distances and all require differnt ways to do them.

I can be at the table and use such a short stroke, that it almost looks like I am just getting the bat to position, yet make a powerful counter.

I can be at table use a 6 inch stroke to counter topspin without leveraging the body or squating or ground up power thing. (I will still need a stable platform though - which involves some crouch and leg spread like most shots)

I can be off the table for a 12-14 inch stroke that makes a powerful opening against a slower or medium ball... that shot requires me to generate and transfer kinetic energy, which I do using a small squat down and up.

Similar shot vs incoming topspin off the table with a litle shorter stroke using less squat...

Many differnent ball situations, distance from table and expected result of shot require different ways to use body and strike the ball.

A little more further from table and I go several inches longer on stroke and use more body to generate and transfer power.
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc
Back to Top
davidsyd View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner
Avatar

Joined: 07/14/2020
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidsyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2020 at 4:51pm

I watched the video. I think you are doing great content and  details which a lot of others
miss.  Keep up the good work.
Back to Top
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2020 at 3:41pm
Thanks! I'm probably gonna do a blocking video next, and then I'll do a footwork video, so stay tuned Big smile
Back to Top
ghostzen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/15/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2020 at 5:21pm
nice keep up the good work ClapThumbs Up
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2020 at 6:41pm
When we talk about the bh technique on the forums, we like to decompose the stroke in many components and use the best of each to build an enhanced result. Doing so we give a lot of importance to the legs because it's true that they play a role but it's mostly due to our culture of perfection. That culture forms an ideal and the gap for our game to reach it is BIIIIG but it's still a goal to fill it as much as we can, it's the inaccessible star Star.

Watching the video, I thought bzdz wanted an approach that focuses more on beginner and intermediate players: we learn to walk before to run. From that perspective he teaches the bh technique talking less about legs and more about bat angle, paddle trajectory, timing; that involves more the core, forearm and wrist in a neutral position that will ALWAYS feature the legs and hips but a lot less as in his videos, we focus before all on keeping the ball -low- on the table in fluid routines.

I am a fan already!!! bzdz is a technical bridge allowing people to grab concepts that they would take years to understand on their own.


Edited by stiltt - 10/08/2020 at 6:45pm
Back to Top
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2020 at 12:24pm
sometimes I feel like we over complicate technique. The ideas are usually not as complex as we make them seem, and I try to make it easy to understand
Back to Top
ghostzen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/15/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2020 at 1:06pm
Easy to understand is Clap Thumbs Up I enjoy your videos so far my friend. 

Best way to give lots of people a clear and understable idea of how improve and train better to get stronger in their games.

Complex works if you are a top top player and working on fine margins or highly cerebral. Very few people if any get paid to play on this forum or have won any national titles or even regional to be honest. Most people are looking for good and straightforward ways and tips to improve to a nice level for them.

A good coach friend on mine said to me once "sometimes you just have to call a brick a brick" He won alot of titles as a player and has coached teams and players to medals all over the place with this mentality. Others have a highly cerebral way of looking at things. This isn't a bad thing but doesn't always work for the masses who can get bogged down with it a bit.

Always great to chew the fat with both btw.








Edited by ghostzen - 10/09/2020 at 1:10pm
Back to Top
bzdz View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/05/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2020 at 1:13pm
totally agree, I think TT gets pretty cerebral sometimes. A lot of times, we should focus on how we feel when we’re doing a stroke, not how it looks. Many players try to look like ma long, but should actually be wondering how to get the feeling he has during his shots
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.