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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2021 at 4:45pm
anyone here use xiom omega 7 euro on the backhand?

I tried to use h8-80 37 degrees instead of it but my bh was not strong enough to use it

am wondering if h3-50 could be an option
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2021 at 9:06pm
aerial, what do you mean "not strong enough"?  All I can say from the short time I used regular H8, and on backhand, that it felt like it had more forward kick that H3-50 35* doesn't have.  

The H3-50 is good at blocking fast heavy loops, but seems to have a small window where at one end of the spectrum:  it often doesn't even get to the net when looping with it.  If you try it, don't get the 35 sponge.  I don't remember ever thinking this with the 37 degree one.

I am starting to think the money I spent on the 4 sheets of 35 degree I bought could have been a tenergy 05... at least I always know it plays with the right amount of spring for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2021 at 5:49pm
by "not strong enough" I mean my bh tends to not be able to penetrate through the topsheet+sponge to get a click sound from the wood. it may be because my stroke is too upward on the loop, but when I tried to punch block with h8-80 the click was not as loud.as punch blocking with o7euro

I also read your comment too late and ordered a sheet of h3-50 35 deg lol 

I'm trying to find something I can hit thru as well as spin good on the bh. to be honest I don't have a problem sticking with the o7euro, just trying to see if there are more cheaper alternatives that can do what I want
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2021 at 9:00pm
Even though 35 is softish, I never felt like I am hitting into the blade on the BH so don't worry.  It's still far from ESN soft.  Even if the tack is too much for you at the start, it'll turn into a non chinese rubber after worn in...  

Me personally, I am not finding this as my ultimate bh or fh rubber.   I just need more forward kick and stable hardness...  All else is fine.

On another note:
HURRICANE 2

My first sheet of hurricane 2 40 degrees black just turned up from Melbourne.  Hmmm... the sheet I bought on ebay.com.au was MEANT TO BE in the old original package.... hence I bought from two different places... so this sheet will probably be identitical as the one I am waiting on from Aliexpress.  This sheet is in the new looking packaging.

The sponge is slightly lighter CREAMY ORANGE coloured than the H8 original and it is harder for sure....  GOOD.  A slight negative dome is something I'm not sure about... A part of me wants to speed glue this just to get the dome flat before using regular glue...

I had a quick play alone and IT doesn't feel too hard nor any tackier than any of the other Hurricanes mentioned in this thread.  

It for sure has more forward kick and hits the top of the net much more but this is all good... once I get used to it, this will be an advantage, I'll just have to brush up a bit more than usual, but it is for now at least not going up in the air too much.  Serves feel fine, and obviously it doesn't pick up lower balls than the table as well but this hardness feels so good in other ways.

I really think these new H2 are more of the same new family of hurricanes as H350 and H8 than the older neos and original H2 and H3s.  It really doesn't feel like a rock hard piece of lino as what I remember from the old hurricanes.  This H2 scared me when I felt it first between the fingers but once put on the blade with regular glue and hitting into it, I feel like I can penetrate into the blade with a hard hit...  

Perfect so far.  Can't wait to have a hit with it on the Versal.  

EDIT 2

Played against my 8 year old who can only drive back and uses hard SP... so all the following is based on playing against small amounts of top spin balls coming at me.

Over the table forehand grazy loop flippy slaps are the best thing going for it.  This will be the greatest strength in service return.

At the end of the table, looping with full power is still missing the table but defiinitely lower throw.  Looping medium power gets a good length and comfortable to get on the table.  They are not really spinny at all  though...  So I believe it will just be a controlled type of shot to expect returns from.

Flat hitting/ driving seems to be the strength of this rubber for now.  I think it is due to low throw angle.  The small amount of tackiness seems to produce some really weird no spin balls.   Passive shots out of position often end up no spin or almost even some backspin.... WEIRD.

I briefly tried it on backhand, and although the forward drive in loops can be good, the lack of springiness in the sponge does make it hard to play simple rally stuff, often falling into the net... similar to the H3-50 but much worse than H3-50.  H3-50 kind of feels easier to do soft rally loops on the fh (not killer shots)

I really look forward to playing against some strong power loopers and test out the other shots.

EDIT 3

Played against 2 players last night.  First guy was a heavy sidespin looper very rarely looping forward with power.  And the second is a short pip smasher.  Sadly the first guy gave me no chance to practise before insisting on a game, so I had no chance to get used to looping against topspin or backspin for that matter.

Blocking was mostly fine but and the slowness of the blocks were really putting off his timing.  I hadn't gotten used to serving yet but the first guy was good at reading them.  As can be expected, H2 is good at the slow pushing game... But I rarely push....  I won the first two games against this guy and lost the 5th by 2 points.  Over all ugly games.... 

Second guy we played a lot more but there were very few rallies and little chance to get used to looping topspin...   I got to loop kill a few off the serves and returns... But trying to counter loop anything blocked back with little time to swing was again an ugly affair with many balls straight into my court... playing against pips was not helping...  Played 1 game at the end and I won it on my serves, and finally finding a comfortable ability to roll back with soft topsin just over the net in service return.  The game revolves around serves for now...  Regardless of rubber, getting the skills/strategies of service return for me is crucial.  

Overall, not the best two guys to play against to get used to the rubber....  Toward the end of the practise I started doing all my serves again confidently and they were possibly more viscious than with H3-50... I attribute that to less spring in the H2 for soft shots such as serving.  So backspin seemed easier if done with confidence.

I tried using H2 on backhand a bit more but it is absolutely sucks if you don't get a full active stroke over the ball.  I pulled off some body armour piecing loops, but it still seemed H3-50 felt easier to get on more often.  I often find myself a bit low (not standing upright enough to get over the ball)...

I really look forward to playing players with a more forward top spinning game and with a chance to do FH to FH to see how the H2 handles the fast topspin... as opposed to SP smashes at me and mostly short sidespin slow loops.

On a side note, my daughter is getting way better and actually last night played better with inverted rubber.  I am however realising playing a lot with her is creating a really bad habit since I aim at her backhand and forehand.  If I aimed closer to corners of the table she's too short to reach them as well.

I have to start practising aiming for that corner section more.  Being conscious and having a plan in TT is very important obviously...

(I just ordered a replacement H8 from Aliexpress: AU$ 31.08 H39 2.2 Black)  





Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/16/2021 at 4:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2021 at 10:24pm
I know I have been EJing like a king these days, but I tried hard to not fall back into the no cost is too much world.

1. My backhand I realise must have something that has spring forward at low speeds, high speeds and generally loops easily regardless.  It can't be tacky at the slightest so that it can be punchy fast.  The Hurricane series has a window of not springing forward that I can't accept.  Especially on backhand, I need a rubber that just does the job regardless of how old, dusty etc the topsheet is.  Hence, as much as I hate going back to the tenergy series, I have tried enough to at least say my backhand now needs to be at worst a 10 year old sheet of tenergy.  Yes, I can use new, or second hand because the surface is not important.  The mechanical spin still plays so well over 10 years and the stroke I know just too well, as I just experimented with old sheets out of the cupboard.  Sorry to say, the 10+ year old sheets still play better than a lot of brand new sheets of other varieties.  And I absolutely must stop EJing for a backhand rubber at least.  

2.  I want to revolve around the overall bat weight that suits me, not revolving the bat set up around suiting a particular rubber.  This mostly is because of the need to whip the wrist in service, that I just can't do over certain weight limit.  I used a Yasaka Balsa blade for a long time at the end of my EJing 10 years ago (quite a slow blade)  this low weight in the recoil is something I find hard NOT to put more emphasis on.  I am not Schlager, Kreanger, Timo etc.  I am just a guy that will rip their muscles out of their shoulders with heavy swings.

So 1 and 2 so far mean the lightest blade with (2nd hand) tenergy on the backhand.  

3.  I am sticking to a Hurricane type forehand for many reasons:

cost (my used experiments are going to charity LOL = my daughter) $30 AU a sheet or less.
short game and service is superior to T
absolute different variation to the backhand - very slow and low spin but can be very opposite.
I can twiddle if I have to

---

For these reasons it's time:

TSP Versal 55g blade + red old tenergy BH (guessing T25fx or T05 my favs) + FH black hurricane H2 or 8 (seem to have more forward kick and hard enough to be a bit more stable than H3-50, but the 37 degrees might still be viable.)  

---

For those who think too light can't provide speed, try putting your finger behind the blade or allowing the full whip of the wrist... the latter being something hard to do with out stressing your joints over repeated attempts with a heavier bat.  






Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/16/2021 at 10:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2021 at 11:16pm
I tried so many rubbers - nothing really comes close to Dignics or even Tenergy in terms of performance - unfortunately! 

I did like K1 plus which is a springy tacky rubber similar to 09c (but slower with even more control) and am playing with it, but I'm really skeptical on the durability of the performance as even now it's starting to drop off (09c lasted a long af time and even towards the end of its life I could create some monster spin loops easily). On the BH nothing really beats D05 in terms of performance + longevity which is why Butterfly can charge these insane prices for it. 
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BH: Dignics 05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2021 at 2:08am
Blahness we are on the same page.

I haven't tried dignics or (really) tried 09c,  I feel like I am totally over ejing totally for BH at least at those prices.  

Is there a general consensus that dignics or 09c is better than the tenergies for non professional players or is it a matter of opinion, preference?  the original tenergy never felt too soft or lacking grip for me... and I am not entertaining more density/weight...  The only FX version I didn't mind was 25 because the thicker topsheet balanced out the softer sponge.... IMO

For me T05 was the standard that was way hard to match, including all the variants....  

I have no time/resources to EJ... so am thinking to save myself any further pain (falling for anyone else's opinions) and just order a red 05 and be done with it all. 

(I might even ask if I can put up a notice at the club to buy used tenergy or dignics because I really believe undamaged used sheets make very little difference to me on the backhand.)

---

*H3-50 35 still produces a way more spinny short loop than old tenergy.  


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/17/2021 at 3:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2021 at 3:59pm
don't buy rubbers from e-bay or aliexpress, and even Amazon. you are trying your luck buying from these venues due to too many fake stuff there. even the anti-fake label on the product can be fake thanks to the Chinese's ingenuity. buy stuff from flagship store of DHS or JD where fake stuff is less rampant. 
if it is a fake rubber, reviewing it is meaningless.
H3 is good for looping but no good for smashing. too tacky for smashing.
H2 is good for both looping and smashing, so is skyline 2, 3.
DHS rubber is slow if not boostered but spinnier. needs to be played with speed (i.e., fast pace) to win.
FH smashing instead of looping and BH knocking instead of looping are trending and effective in the era of 40+ ball. it changes the rhythm of the game. more effective way of playing now is to loop and then smash although smashing, lethal as it is, is less stable than looping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2021 at 5:38pm
Dog, which site (link) please is real... 

If I have to buy $30 of oil for a few months of boosted rubber I would just by butterfly.  I used to speed glue but I am not gonna get messed up into waiting days to trial a rubber either.  Boosting to gain sponge thickness, softness and tension is way too complex. Just buy a softer thicker sponge.  The tension... well tensors have been around a long time.  Tenergy was the answer to all 3 really.

Totally agree with the loop and smash style... not new though.  Most play that game.  Loop softly/controlled on the first one till you can go for the kill shot.   

EDIT 1

Played 2 hours today, and generally played better with the old T25fx except it is not as spinny an opening loop as my H3-50 was.  It is for sure faster and more forward, but as far opening up H350 is better because almost nobody could block it.  But the second ball if blocked back was generally more powerful with T25fx old.  I beat a guy 3/1 mostly with my backhand backspin serves that beat me 3/0 last time... weird...  I think H2 is slightly more extreme than H3-50 on these backhand serves.

Not sure what has happened to my forehand serve though... I miss my own table with it suddenly... It's like this blade feels too thick.

I was given a bit of a chance to play FH to FH and try to loop up a bit but I don't know what is going on... I know my FH is crap but the blade feels to stiff or something...  I am wondering if I should go to an all round flexy wood blade and see if it helps me build up some confidence.  

Will give that a go next.  

Overall, I felt today I am playing slightly better, but I still feel unco with my forehand attack shots.


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/18/2021 at 3:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2021 at 10:35pm
boz,

I would suggest the store below, which is the official store of DHS, if you really want to buy from China. If you are in the US, megaspin.com and Paddlepalace.com are trusted stores, from which I bought all my rubbers. The price is a little bit higher than that in China, but when you factor in shipment cost, it is about the same. For classic H3, the price is always low (under $30). For fancy H3s, the price can be very high. 

Compared with other sites of China, JD.com is safer although it is still not 100% guaranteed. This is my personal experience, and it is not meant to publicize JD.

I generally do not buy Chinese rubbers that are advertised on this site, except from those "reliable" members, because it is difficult to know where these rubbers were purchased. 

I had the experience of getting fake DHS products from Amazon and have learned my lessons.

Some soft spongy rubbers of DHS (e.g., orange spongy ones) are rather expensive (some so-called provincial, national rubbers etc. are even more expensive, close to the price of Butterfly's rubber already) but slow. They can generate more spin by increasing dwelling time of the ball on the rubber, making dull sound when hitting the ball.

H3 is for looping and not for smashing. It is too sticky for smashing.T05 is not good for near the table smashing because it is too bouncy.

https://search.jd.com/search?keyword=双喜官方旗舰店&qrst=1&suggest=2.def.0.SAK7%7CMIXTAG_SAK7R%2CSAK7_M_AM_L5385%2CSAK7_M_COL_L15275%2CSAK7_S_AM_R%2CSAK7_SC_PD_R%2CSAK7_SS_PM_R%7C&wq=红双喜官方旗舰店&ev=exbrand_红双喜(DHS)%5E&cid3=15841

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2021 at 10:39pm
Sorry, the link is not working.

Try the following and then and search “红双喜官方旗舰店” (copy and past):


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2021 at 11:31pm
Hey, thanks for the effort to share.  I do disagree about tenergy 05 being bad for the smash... it's better than anything tacky for sure in that shot.

1. I won't buy from a site in Chinese.  Aliexpress is in English at least if you choose.  I know there are scammers on there too.  

2. I am in Australia, and US stores are generally not cheap especially including shipping.

3. I wonder how much scammers are willing to go faking a product that is only $20-30 AUD... Pretty small change in my opinion to care about...   Over $50 I would start to get concerned... especially over $100 like butterfly products are.

---

Now onto an update of playing.

Yesterday I played Radi for a few hours.  She's much better than me currently.  I have improved enough to take a few games of her here and there.  Because we practise together she knows my serves much better than anyone, so that takes away a couple of games at least.

I stuck down an old Tenergy 05 on an allround thinner flexier blade with the H2 on forehand.  I liked it.  Felt much more dwelly (making up for how old the rubber surface is) and controlled (for now as coming back to the sport, the carbon is not forgiving me, although I did love it in the past).  Service felt back to normal and it was all about the rubbers (no harder blade to ping off).  

I also trialled some Long Pimples and for the first couple of games I actually beat her without playing with them for even a minute in 10 years.... however they were on too much of an offensive blade and I had the H350 on one side and it just didn't feel as nice as the slower dwelly blade.... Nittaku 3 ply of hinoki is got to be one of the bounciest offensive blades ever made... I wonder if it is actually faster than anything with carbon, the ping sound is a magical tone.  I will have to play around with that blade again because it is soft but like a rocket too.  I hit some insanely fast shots with the H3-50 on the backhand when the ball popped up a bit.  I wonder how that blade would play with the deader H2?

Overall, I feel I am playing better and playing Radi is great because she punishes me for any mistakes, and blocks at high speed anything I open up on close enough to her power zones.  

Her dignics 09c on a carbon blade really work for at the table ownership of short drives predominantly... and she was out countering most the time when we got into an exchange.

I was researching d09c in case I should be buying a sheet of red for my backhand instead of T05.  It is a tough call, but I think the lower price, weight and higher speed for the backhand is going to trump D09c.... so unless I don't get wild about trying the newest and bestest, I'm buying a T05 again next time I go to the club.  

---

Although I am guessing it would be way to slow, I do want to have a quick test of H3-50 on this ALL round blade... I am just roughly guessing that because it's softer it might give me a bit more notice when hitting into the blade more.


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/20/2021 at 3:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2021 at 5:34pm
D09c is normally a FH rubber (hard, tacky, slower, spinnier), I think D05 is probably what you would be looking at for the BH. 

D05 is like an upgrade to T05 and feels quite similar.
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FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2021 at 6:29pm
I am playing a catch up with tech in the last decade...  


WTF?  Harder but compresses more?  OK I do believe butterfly since they do produce legit stuff I can personally verify in the past from playing lots of stuff.

so checking prices.. D05 is the same at D09C...  premium 10% improvement for premium 10% experience possible.

Blahness, you are sending me down a more expensive rabbit hole.

---

Another note... over the summer Xmas our club is mostly closed.  No fixtures on the cards for a while so I should not rush too much.  I will buy something I can trust before competition starts in the next month.

I got some EJ recombinations I want to trial still.  

H350 on ALL blade.

H2/H8 on that 3 ply hinoki which seems to ping like crazy.

That should have covered all bases relatively before reinvesting in the T D butterfly end confidence.

---

Playing with my kid feeding balls, my H2 on ALL feels pretty good and medium FH power... I still am not finding anything that takes my 100% FH power and lands on the table. due to technique or poor suitable FH equipment... I don't know.  

---

Forgot to mention I am in the middle of testing boosting H350 with baby oil... $2.40 from Coles brand.  Smells like a baby ass.  Since last night at least it has removed a negative dome from how it was... A slight positive dome is starting if held in the hands.  It lies flat otherwise.


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/20/2021 at 6:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2021 at 6:46pm
WHOLLY F!!!!

I just ruined another sheet.  I decided to hot air dry the baby boosted rubber and wala FN disaster, the whole topsheet just separated from the sponge on the H350 35 degrees.

F*&k

compare that to the old tenergy 05 rubber I ironed and then boiled for 10 minutes and couldn't remove the topsheet from the sponge but am now using!

Hurricane -2 = -$50 AUD
tenergy old +1 = indestructable.




Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/20/2021 at 7:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2021 at 10:40pm
The major advantage with Dignics is that it's kinda plug and play, no need to fiddle a lot with boosting or some exotic chemical recipe, and having a rubber that lasts a long time. For time poor ppl like me, the $$$ is well deserved. I'm probably gonna stick with it still on the BH. Am still seeing if the K1 plus is a good replacement for the D09c, I feel like it's probably gonna die in maybe another 2 months or so of hard hitting.
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FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2021 at 11:22pm
Blahness, what is your personal experience of t05 vs D05 vs D09c?

I am happy getting another T05, but if better exists that is easy enough to adapt to at the same price then so be it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2021 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Blahness, what is your personal experience of t05 vs D05 vs D09c?

I am happy getting another T05, but if better exists that is easy enough to adapt to at the same price then so be it.

D05 is spinnier than T05, and is just better at serve receive especially chiquita and pushing. I think speed wise it's roughly the same, and it's also slightly heavier. 

D09c is a completely different ball game. It's more akin to boosted hurricane (if you drop a ball onto it, it doesn't bounce much at all). But it's a monster if you have good FH mechanics with unrivalled spin and speed at higher power levels. Also incredibly spinny in the serve and receive game. K1 plus is a little deader so makes short pushes even easier, at the expense of less top end power compared to D09c. 
-------
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FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2021 at 4:45pm
Cheers Blahness,

D05 sounds worth the bit extra in weight.  

---

On another note,

I have not given up with the baby oil.  $2.50 for 500mls and it actually does expand as seen around the place.

I received my second and last H2 and it has domed bigtime overnight.  Will glue it up for a hit today, I have my fingers crossed it feels less dead than unboosted.   

Still not sure which blade to try it on though.

Today I want to try short pips again on my FH but on this all round blade... The time I tried it on ZLF felt horrible and threw in the trial very quickly.  ( I have never found any rubber that makes me like that blade ) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2021 at 4:26am
Short pips sucked just as much as last time... pulled them off...

Added another layer of baby oil... So roughly 2-3 layers over a day and a half.  And glued down the  new original red H2 40 degrees.

I chose to put in on the ishlion, because I still haven't tried the H2 on carbon and the H35 37 degrees black is already on the other side and I wanted to revisit it after playing with the 35 degrees for quite a while.

The 37 felt much better than I ever remember the 35 degree again.  More controlled.

The H2 boosted feels insane!  Right now brand new, it doesn't feel slow at all.  It doesn't feel like a $21 rubber.  It feels as good as the unboosted but short lived H8....  It feels like a tensor, it almost feels like speed glued.  (no zappy gas chamber click though)  I actually found I could bottom it out and get a sweet ishlion click on my backhand.  Highly impressed.   Yes I have to be in position, but a backhand open with this feels like spinny rocket.

Playing against my kid doesn't give me a chance to play everything... I am not probably going to stick to the ishlion since I want something a little thinner and lighter... 

I won't say much about FH since the H350 37 feels more controlled for me at my poor skills still.

I wish I boosted all my Hurricanes now... I did try doing one that has already had glue on it and it doesn't respond much...  and the glue is gross to remove.

The H2 is not overly tacky, feels just right.  

I won't be ordering more of anything until I see how this booster works over time... I have no idea if the rubber will shrink, ruin another topsheet etc.

For now I am impressed and optimistic with that first hit.  It has the same H350 type of grazy insane amount of spin in the opening looper only with more forward kick that I was wishing for.  

For now boosted H2 beats H350 35 unboosted hands down... and is $10 cheaper.

Considering that 35 degrees is too soft, 37 feels quite nicish but still not really there...  40 degrees does feel a bit hard unboosted... I am guessing the bossting is pulling the 40 down a couple of degrees.  

I want to see if boosting the softer rubbers gives me the forward kick through the tension in the topsheet... or if it really requires the 40 degrees to give it the hardness to match the hard blade and give a more gradual linear kick.  

fun and happy.

EDIT 1

Still just had another round with my kid.

But I tried this blade from my cupboard.  Stiga Offensive classic.  It pretty much answers all the qualities I am looking for now.  Thin, all wood feeling, not really offensive... is flexy.  I played with it the h350 and old t05 and just kept twidlling finding both sides good for either fh or bh.  I started landing all my FH... and think this is the go.  Can't remember when I bought this but it was a while back.  It feels fast enoughish....  But slow with enough feeling for my FH hand to control the ball for correction.  Not sure if my FH will ever be good enough for a tacky rubber when it comes to kill shots.  So I think although the rubbers are kind of interchangable, they are not so much when it comes to my FH.  I am odd but so be it.  I think hurricane on bh boosted to the hilt, and a brand new T05 is enough for me.  (possibly dignics but I know what I know)







Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/23/2021 at 7:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2021 at 6:35am
Just back from a 3 hour session against a player stronger than me.  Radi.

I took 3 bats.

1.  Grubba ALL LP OX H2 unboosted... I gave up on quite quickly because LP doesn't help me against her short FH serves at all... I can use the unboosted H2 as slow as it is but this style is not going to cut it against strong players.

2.the stiga blade picture above with old T05 (felt good for some shots but was just slipping off the rubber at the grazy short game  too annoying, so quit it...

That left me with 

3.  Ishlion with boosted H2 and unboosted few month old H350 37 degrees.  This I kept flipping FH to BH after various points to see which way was better.

There is no question for my strength on backhand the H2 was an absolute killer.  And I am surprised so many people talk badly about it away from the table.  On the ishlion I felt this is an absolute beast.  I even perferred it to the H3 on the FH from pretty much anywhere.  I actually found the H2 better than the H3 for passive shots just trying to get the ball back to the table, because it had more passive power built in... (I missed quite a few with the H350 just generally dropping shorter than the net.

I really felt my whole game come back except for you guessed it FH kill shots.  But I feel FH is improving, and getting closer every time I play.

It's not fair to totally compare the two because the H3 is quite worn after a couple of months.  It is not anywhere as grippy.

So many things started clicking today in my game.  I got much better at rushing back at weaker returns or just generally where I used to just sit at the table and try to block her attacks and fail miserably.  

Anything on my backhand side I was the aggresor with a very high win rate.  Side spin loops from the table and 2 metres back were killers.  I don't know if I could get any more speed or spin from a more expensive rubber in the past.  My crappy FH was either a fade back from the table or a spinny lob... Not great right now but getting better.  

Overall, I am finding back my game and running around a hell of a lot more.  

My serve with the H2 has really improved to.  

Everything in EJ world is a trade off.  The ishlion is probably the blade I used the longest in TT and I can't say I have felt much more a viscious matching rubber ever to match my backhand with it.  And with the full range of gears.  I can produce blocks that slow the game down with the tack producing weird no spin balls,  short touches, heavy backspins with just an early touch or with an active jab, and then extremely fast loops and counter ones at any distance.

Sadly I still will have to compromise for the FH.  Can't wait to swap around to two boosted rubbers to the Stiga Peter offensive classic and have another long range battle.  Fn love it boys.

2022 is gonna be awesome.   


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/25/2021 at 4:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2021 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Just back from a 3 hour session against a player stronger than me.  Radi.

I took 3 bats.

1.  Grubba ALL LP OX H2 unboosted... I gave up on quite quickly because LP doesn't help me against her short FH serves at all... I can use the unboosted H2 as slow as it is but this style is not going to cut it against strong players.

2.the stiga blade picture above with old T05 (felt good for some shots but was just slipping off the rubber at the grazy short game  too annoying, so quit it...

That left me with 

3.  Ishlion with boosted H2 and unboosted few month old H350 37 degrees.  This I kept flipping FH to BH after various points to see which way was better.

There is no question for my strength on backhand the H2 was an absolute killer.  And I am surprised so many people talk badly about it away from the table.  On the ishlion I felt this is an absolute beast.  I even perferred it to the H3 on the FH from pretty much anywhere.  I actually found the H2 better than the H3 for passive shots just trying to get the ball back to the table, because it had more passive power built in... (I missed quite a few with the H350 just generally dropping shorter than the net.

I really felt my whole game come back except for you guessed it FH kill shots.  But I feel FH is improving, and getting closer every time I play.

It's not fair to totally compare the two because the H3 is quite worn after a couple of months.  It is not anywhere as grippy.

So many things started clicking today in my game.  I got much better at rushing back at weaker returns or just generally where I used to just sit at the table and try to block her attacks and fail miserably.  

Anything on my backhand side I was the aggresor with a very high win rate.  Side spin loops from the table and 2 metres back were killers.  I don't know if I could get any more speed or spin than a more expensive rubber in the past.  My crappy FH was either a fade back from the table or a spinny lob... Not great right now but getting better.  

Overall, I am finding back my game and running around a hell of a lot more.  

My serve with the H2 has really improved to.  

Everything in EJ world is a trade off.  The ishlion is probably the blade I used the longest in TT and I can't say I have felt much more a viscious matching rubber ever to match my backhand with it.  And with the full range of gears.  I can block super soft spin and speed killing at times giving back weird no spin balls due to the tack, short touches, heavy backspins with just an early touch or with an active jab, and then extremely fast loops and counter ones at any distance.

Sadly I still will have to compromise for the FH.  Can't wait to swap around to two boosted rubbers to the Stiga Peter offensive classic and have another long range battle.  Fn love it boys.

2022 is gonna be awesome.   
couldn't leave the sport huh

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2021 at 9:11pm

On YouTube, there are some descriptions about the difference between D09C and H3, though no info about D09C vs. H2.

D09C is faster, almost as spiny as H3, but the arc of H3 is more "stealthy", i.e., after the ball hits the table, it dives faster and then dips little bit further downward. 

D09C is more forgiving.

Wang Liqing uses H2 on FH.

Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

I am playing a catch up with tech in the last decade...  


WTF?  Harder but compresses more?  OK I do believe butterfly since they do produce legit stuff I can personally verify in the past from playing lots of stuff.

so checking prices.. D05 is the same at D09C...  premium 10% improvement for premium 10% experience possible.

Blahness, you are sending me down a more expensive rabbit hole.

---

Another note... over the summer Xmas our club is mostly closed.  No fixtures on the cards for a while so I should not rush too much.  I will buy something I can trust before competition starts in the next month.

I got some EJ recombinations I want to trial still.  

H350 on ALL blade.

H2/H8 on that 3 ply hinoki which seems to ping like crazy.

That should have covered all bases relatively before reinvesting in the T D butterfly end confidence.

---

Playing with my kid feeding balls, my H2 on ALL feels pretty good and medium FH power... I still am not finding anything that takes my 100% FH power and lands on the table. due to technique or poor suitable FH equipment... I don't know.  

---

Forgot to mention I am in the middle of testing boosting H350 with baby oil... $2.40 from Coles brand.  Smells like a baby ass.  Since last night at least it has removed a negative dome from how it was... A slight positive dome is starting if held in the hands.  It lies flat otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2021 at 4:51am
Cheers Smackdat, 

I know addictions, I have way too many of them.  Some can lay dormant, others just resurface when the context is right.  I was kind of stuck in husband/parent land for a decade but now freedom at times and I feel I am relatively back in.  I reckon at least 1 year to get my ass back to where I was if I play almost daily.  But that's cool.  The sport rocks. Finding a reason for  'Choing' rocks and is worth all my silly negative comments after each miss.  LOL

Dogman,

I doubt Liqin still uses it after 20 years.  Thanks for the descriptions.

---

No play today, but I woke up and then pulled off my black unboosted H2.  Rubbed off the old glue with a tooth brush that has lots of glue like rubber from when I used it to spread glue.  

Boosting up the H2 gradually.  I don't follow everyone's timing of layers.  I just keep checking it every few hours and give the baby oil a bit of rub and even out.  I think I am up to almost 3 layers.  Here's a tip for boosting especially after it starts to dome.  Don't put any oil 1 cm from the edge of the cut rubber.  The worst that can happen is it rolls down the dome with gravity and pools around the pips and top sheet.  With my red successful boost, I don't like how the edges are trying their hardest to pull back with a slight dome.  So my thinking has two sides.  One is to not get it dribble over the edge and the other is to let the edge be a little less swallen.  It can be a problem for those more edge dependent serves and more horizontal loops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2021 at 2:14am
I had a few hits of TT with my kid, just playing with the slower blade and I feel like I am losing my mind in EJ land.  Last night this slower blade helped me land everything on the table.  This morning I played again and it felt to dwelly and not enough forward kick for backhand kill like I was getting with the ishlion.

Considering the last time I played a real player felt like my whole game started piecing together mainly because I started playing from 2 metres back as a default, this slower blade is going to be all wrong.  I can't test really hammering into this slower blade from a distance at home due to space and because my daughter gets scared she'll get red spots from when the ball hits her... 

I am starting to wonder again that slower does not always mean more control.  Or at least up to a point.  

The good thing about having many rubbers is it easy to try the rubber side by side on different blades... 

H2 BH so far has felt best on the carbon blade to be deadly enough.  The short game feels great and controlled forehand easier with the slower blade.  I am however left feeling like I have no win shot with this slower blade.  I am starting to think my game should revolve around making sure I can pull that off more so than weak FH loops which easily get returned.

EDIT 1

I am currently a day in to trying to boost a sheet of H350 35.  The first overnight experience of boosting into a thin layer of glue did very little.  So in the morning I rubbed off all the glue and added two more layers over 10 hours.  So far there is a little dome but not really seeming to be a solid dome like with harder sponges.

I am guessing the harder sponge allows for greater difference between the boosting side of the sponge and the non boosted side.  

The already soft H350 just seems soggy wobbly possibly already drenched with larger pores.

I don't mind losing another sheet of this stuff because it was cheapish and not the rubber I want to stay with after trying the H2.  

So if you are a booster, avoid these new sponge types I reckon.  Such as the -50 (guessing the -80)

I also don't know why I see so many vids of people boosting the neos, having to start with pulling off the free glue layer.  How annoying when you can just buy it without! 

EDIT 2

While I was almost about to reglue both the H2 black 2.15 40 degrees and the H3 35 I just got my replacement H8 turn up in the mail.

I was going to put the H2 on the ishlion so two sides the same rubber.  (red is 39)  Since no prospect of playing, I did another layer and half of booster on the H2 black.  The H3-50 35 has responded well with boosting 3 layers but looks a little gluggy jelly wobbly like still.  Whereas the H2 is stiff in its taco shape.

I know how the H2 black will feel on the ishlion so think I will try boosting up the H8 this time and not remove it ever from the ishlion.  (remember I tore a very new sheet and this is now a replacement.)

The black H8 is 2.2 (max width suggesting not to be boosted) 39 degrees and the sponge as I mentioned a while back is more felt/less rubbery like more old ESN like more fragile.  It came in a vaccuum packed seal with paper on the sponge side but no glue layer.  

I'd rather trial the H8 39 black back to back against the H2 red 39 and be able to really notice if there are much difference.  The H2 red has had boosting (been worn in a little with play) and the H8 I am waiting to see how it responds.  Right now a few hours in, the H8 sponge which came with a pronounced negative dome is not responding much at all.  I probably won't boost more than 24 hours into the H8 if there is no response in another few hours.  It seemed to play pretty nicely without after all... It's just this negative dome that bugs me.   

I am guessing it will be quite heavy overall (not appealing to my serve and recoil that I want)  but hopefully if playing from a distance is pretty much where I play the best from, I do need to have both the ishlion with two forward kicking rubbers.








Edited by bozbrisvegas - 12/29/2021 at 7:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2021 at 3:01am
Now I have 2 layers of booster on H8.  I had a brief hit with my kid, with the ishlion and H2 on the other side.  

H2 and H8 feel pretty similar to me.  H8 being a new generation of rubbers seems a bit fragile.  Seemed less responsive to glue in the sponge but the topsheet seems more affected.  Overall I doubt if I did a blind test, if I could notice the difference between them if they were both brand spanking new.  

The bat feels like a club, really heavy and will take quite a while getting used to.  

I went to glue the other H2 black onto my Maze blade and it didn't want to stick!  We have moisture in the air so very lightly warm fan dried (worried I might peal the rubber off)  ran to try again and got a better bond but still not great.   The H2 is super boosted = a few layers a week ago and a couple more yesterday.  Currently I have a pile of books on it hoping it might settle.

The H3-50 is also heavily boosted, hopefully it won't be so hard to glue down since it isn't so stiff.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andzejgolot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2021 at 6:36pm
how to destroy hurricane 3?
put them on zhang jike blue dragon
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Care to explain Anzegelot?

---

Had a good 3 hour session of play with Radi today... The reason I play her so much is she has a barn with high roof and AC and she is a good player.

I started off the first half with Ishlion + H2 super boosted + H8 mildy boosted.  I was killing it.  Absolutely was nailing extremely fast attacks with backhand from counter looping at the table and far away.  The whole game was great.  

I am still not happy with my FH and still am waiting for the club to reopen before getting either dignics 05 or tenergy 05.  (I hope that not using 05 is the reason I can't find the consistency I have, but I have a small part of me that will cry if I keep missing it...  )

I trialled 3 other blades for about 30 minutes but not loving them as much.

I love the feeling of the Michael Maze handle and generally how it played with a super boosted H3-50 stretched to hell, and a thick H2... But it was quite clear that the speed really reduced in more shots.  And this power is what was winning it for me against a higher level player.  Slowing down, she started punishing me for softer returns.

The idea is kill it before they kill it.

I don't mind playing carefully to beat some people if it is an important match, but I hate it much more if I lose because I played carefully and didn't just let it rip.  

I also gave some 729 cheap short pip a bit more of a chance on my forehand... (because it is weak)  And I must say I caused some problems in the short game oddly.  It introduced some odd spins left over from earlier shots.  It also was better at hitting a short spinny lifted ball.  Blocking was still unpredictable and unacceptable.  

I give Hurricane and short pips the same prize at being the worst blocking/passive shot rubbers.  They all require continuous attention to doing everything right.... 

The last I gave another go was the primorac with  h350 both sides.  all I can say is the blade feels magical at a distance but the rubbers as nice at some things just let me down too often.  

So as a summary,

I have to stay with fast carbon and I must admit it is the most fun part of table tennis.  Being able to happily stand away from the table.  My backhand oddly can handle harder Chinese rubber much better than my forehand so I will be getting a new 05.  

The deal breaker is.... I just can't smash, block or loop with my FH well enough with these Chinese rubbers.  I don't see much changing so will have to fork out some bucks soon for a new 05 for FH.  (I know my backhand would prefer 05 too, but I don't feel the need for that and variety if you can play with it is harder on your opponent.

EDIT 1

keep eyeing off my versal blade sitting there....

I had to control + find search on all my EJ combinations to realise I did not trial H2 or H8 on the TSP 'versal' (long enough if at all)

I have tried H2 on slower heavier blades but they are the same weight as the fast ones in the buttefly style making it a different kettle of fish when considering a slower but drastically lighter blade for comparison.  

The versal is slow from a distance for sure, which is easy to predict but I must give the H2 a trial next on it.  Because arm whip can trump top end speed of a heavy bat mostly where it counts, at the start.

H2 in my mind is the tenergy 25 version with tack.  From what I remember, T25 FX was perfect on light balsa and I played my last tournament with it well.  

Now that I have discovered cheap ass boosting, H2 (H8 is pretty equal) might be viable all tensored up.  (reminds me of original Bryce but with tack)

Time to go glue up.



Edited by bozbrisvegas - 01/04/2022 at 7:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2022 at 8:45pm
Been ages off playing due to a close covid contact.  Bummer.  I have had a few hits with H2 bh and T05 old FH on the versal with my kid at home.  Oddly when I use the H2 on the FH its pretty nice but it is against my kid... I know once things get back to a hectic pace against a good player my opinion changes quickly.  She loves H350 which is pretty non tacky now for many of my first sheets.  

I like H8 but feel H2 is much better considering the 25% cheaper price and boosts 50% better.  

H2 seems to be the winner at the end of all this testing prior to competition starting this year and I just ordered another 2.2 black but this time 38 degrees (the softest I can find).  About $25 AU all up with taxes and delivery.


It will stay in back up for a while since I have rubbers all over the place to wear out a bit before competition starts.  

Been a hell of a return to the sport but I know my BH rubber is H2 and blade will be offensive, my forehand will be 05.  

Hate self-isolating.




Edited by bozbrisvegas - 01/08/2022 at 9:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2022 at 4:45pm
This is a reminder that I will never recommend H3-50 ever again for anyone other than someone who will glue it down and leave it there as a soft rubber.

I pulled out my primorac carbon which has mostly sat unused in plastic 'sandwich' bag with two H350s either side.  Those rubbers are the least used sheets I have and have not been boosted or experienced any heat or anything unusual.

Going to remove the black sheet (because I want to try H2 on the Primorac) the top sheet started pealing away from the sponge and there is no mega strong bond with the glue to the blade!

So H350 too... H8 did something similar so I then went to my H2 to see if I can pick at the topsheet to pull it back off the sponge and it is not possible.  

H2 is again a clear winner in strength so far.

Ihave gone back to my front page review of H350 and given it a warning.

---

Here's my H2 40 degrees boosted glued and ready to go.

Does this picture show for you?  



Edited by bozbrisvegas - 01/10/2022 at 5:01pm
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