Use FAST equipment to improve

assiduous wrote: Does anybody else want to tell me a completely irrelevant (and not always real) story of their personal experience? I don't mind, I don't read them anyway, so if that makes ur day go ahead and share with us 'what happened the other day at the club', how those shots were 'deadly', and how you were supplying the power. Knock yourself out. Drain it out of your system.

The aim of the game of TT is not to hit the ball harder than your opponent but to get it over the net one more time than your opponent. It is better especially for developing or intermediate players (at least in my oppinion) to work on consistency and techniques. I see too many developing players with way too fast equipment. I had a coach you told me to use only 75% of my power on my fh...I regard him as a very good coach.

The way I see Assiduous theory is just like a story I learnt when I was a kid:
A millionaire who wants his builder to build a 5 stories building but he doesn't want to spend time in building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th level. He just want to go straight to 5th stories.....

Guess what happened

It's funny how some people view the world through multicolor lenses. An object is blue in color but there is always someone who will say you are wrong it's not blue... it's aqua. We as human beings come with two arms, two legs, two eyes and hopefully one brain. To say there is no "correct" way is inaccurate to say the least. We are dealing with human beings and the laws of physics when it comes to playing our sport. Experience does matter when giving advice here. Hitting the ball harder does not always win the point. Table Tennis is a very complex and demanding sport when played at high level and I believe most of us here are not at that level yet.

When I started the coach at the time wanted me to use the fastest equipment on the market. But he also didn't want me to play games - just drills. After few months, I took a break from coaching and tried a slower blade and loved it. Most of the shots that I was having trouble with were all landing in, also I was able to hit out and the ball stayed in play.

slevin wrote: assiduous wrote: Does anybody else want to tell me a completely irrelevant (and not always real) story of their personal experience? I don't mind, I don't read them anyway, so if that makes ur day go ahead and share with us 'what happened the other day at the club', how those shots were 'deadly', and how you were supplying the power. Knock yourself out. Drain it out of your system.  Assiduous, go ahead and punch this guy in the face: assiduous wrote: Man, this blade just changed my game without any practice. Yesterday I beat a 2000 player. My highest win ever. The matches that I lost were just as amazing. This blade makes short and mid distance looping so accurate. Everything goes in. All this time I have been developing my strokes to fit a IF ZLC trajectory but was using different blades. I don't like my Korbel at all any more. Feels hollow and slow and blurry in contrast. Man, I remember when I was posting here what a nice lively blade Primorac is. Then my game improved and Primo was too slow and the vibration was unbearable. Moved to Korbel and it was a bit faster but much more stable. Now that I've tried IF ZLC there is no coming back to Korbel. If I could go back I would just start with IF and get used to it. I think my game would have improved FASTER had I started with IF. I broke 1700 in just the last tournament but I feel confident and im signing up again

So much win

Oh and +1 for YE!

puppy412 wrote: there's no such thing as a good or a bad technique, just technique that suits this or that equipment. so using h3 for 10 years won't make your fh loop better than a guy who used tenergy for 10 years. it will just make it suitable for h3. but when you move to tenergy you will have to modify your stroke and make it fit tenergy. same with any other rubber. it would be dumb to think of a guy looping, you looking at his body and saying "great, that was a great body movement for looping, that was a great shot" and the ball going into the net. as for the original question of the thread, it really depends on the stroke you are performing. some strokes are clearly easier with an untuned h3 and some are clearly easier with a tenergy. what you have to analyze is which are the strokes you perform more in a match. if you serve, do opening loop and point is over, then untuned h3 will be great. but if you serve, do opening loop, then loop 2 more times, then block 2 balls, then counterloop, etc etc you will probably realize that tenergy is better overall at this wide variety of shots and also better at playing from any distance. this is part of the reason why they recommend slow equipment to newbies, because most of their shots are control shots which are clearly easier with slower equipment. a rough estimation would be the longer the points you play, the more you will benefit from fast equipment. the shorter the points, the better you will do with slow equipment (unless you push 20 times in a row). if you think about it, advanced players have longer points so in the end advanced player->benefit from fast rookie->benefit from slow

Strongly disagree as of course there is such thing as good or bad technique. Not everything about technique is based on equipment. There are universal foundational aspects that a player should learn regardless of rubber used which will carry on and apply to whatever setup they use.

You used the example of a loop and watching a persons body even if they miss the loop into the net. Sure you can compliment someone for their "body movement" even if they miss. If they're doing great weight transfer (using legs and waist as their foundation instead of pure arm), getting to the ball instead of stretching to reach the ball, etc etc... those are all examples someone can draw from even if they missed that should be reinforced. These things are also universal and will help regardless what rubber you're using. For all you know it was another factor in them missing... maybe they timed the ball wrong... maybe they missed they sweet spot on their blade.... maybe they misjudged spin. It doesn't mean you disregard the other positive aspects just because a shot was missed.

Lastly you claim that the longer the point (serve, opening loops, blocks, counterattacks) goes = faster equipment is better. I would also disagree with that since throughout all those strokes, the ability to control the ball becomes even more important due to the chance of unforced errors. For many, fast equipment is exactly what is keeping them from getting that deep in the point because they can't keep the ball on the table on their offensive shots, try to recklessly kill balls, or can't keep blocks on the table because they can't control the thing. Most of the time, they look for the "flashy" kill shot instead of relying on consistency. When their ability to consistently perform a flashy kill shot on a certain ball is taken away, their entire game falls apart with unforced errors.

The only time I would recommend someone move to a faster setup is when their "feel" has a reached a level where moving to something faster does not hinder their consistency in any major way. In this situation, they can take advantage of the higher speed without a major spike in unforced errors. Their footwork and speed also have to be up to par as higher speed shots coming back puts stress on movement.

Higher speed from faster equipment may seem awesome when you're doing flashy kill shots etc etc... but when you finally meet someone who has the skill to use all that power you put in right back at you and your footwork/consistency isn't up to par, that's when you realize the "give and take" of faster equipment in that you also need to grow your other areas to support it.

Edited by Rack - 11/26/2013 at 5:35pm

Rack wrote: puppy412 wrote: there's no such thing as a good or a bad technique, just technique that suits this or that equipment. so using h3 for 10 years won't make your fh loop better than a guy who used tenergy for 10 years. it will just make it suitable for h3. but when you move to tenergy you will have to modify your stroke and make it fit tenergy. same with any other rubber. it would be dumb to think of a guy looping, you looking at his body and saying "great, that was a great body movement for looping, that was a great shot" and the ball going into the net. as for the original question of the thread, it really depends on the stroke you are performing. some strokes are clearly easier with an untuned h3 and some are clearly easier with a tenergy. what you have to analyze is which are the strokes you perform more in a match. if you serve, do opening loop and point is over, then untuned h3 will be great. but if you serve, do opening loop, then loop 2 more times, then block 2 balls, then counterloop, etc etc you will probably realize that tenergy is better overall at this wide variety of shots and also better at playing from any distance. this is part of the reason why they recommend slow equipment to newbies, because most of their shots are control shots which are clearly easier with slower equipment. a rough estimation would be the longer the points you play, the more you will benefit from fast equipment. the shorter the points, the better you will do with slow equipment (unless you push 20 times in a row). if you think about it, advanced players have longer points so in the end advanced player->benefit from fast rookie->benefit from slow Strongly disagree as of course there is such thing as good or bad technique. Not everything about technique is based on equipment. There are universal foundational aspects that a player should learn regardless of rubber used which will carry on and apply to whatever setup they use. You used the example of a loop and watching a persons body even if they miss the loop into the net. Sure you can compliment someone for their "body movement" even if they miss. If they're doing great weight transfer (using legs and waist as their foundation instead of pure arm), getting to the ball instead of stretching to reach the ball, etc etc... those are all examples someone can draw from even if they missed that should be reinforced. These things are also universal and will help regardless what rubber you're using. For all you know it was another factor in them missing... maybe they timed the ball wrong... maybe they missed they sweet spot on their blade.... maybe they misjudged spin. It doesn't mean you disregard the other positive aspects just because a shot was missed. Lastly you claim that the longer the point (serve, opening loops, blocks, counterattacks) goes = faster equipment is better. I would also disagree with that since throughout all those strokes, the ability to control the ball becomes even more important due to the chance of unforced errors. For many, fast equipment is exactly what is keeping them from getting that deep in the point because they can't keep the ball on the table on their offensive shots, try to recklessly kill balls, or can't keep blocks on the table because they can't control the thing. Most of the time, they look for the "flashy" kill shot instead of relying on consistency. When their ability to consistently perform a flashy kill shot on a certain ball is taken away, their entire game falls apart with unforced errors.

ok so let's say rookie doesn't listen to my advice and buys fastest paddle.
according to you this will make points even shorter.

then he can come back to my advice and realize that the shorter the points, the slower his equipment needs to be.
so he will go back to slow equipment.

as for correct or incorrect technique.
let's say tomorrow comes a guy who grabs the paddle with his foot and makes kung fu kicks but he can beat ma long zhang jike and fan zhendong 4-0 every time.
will liu guoliang tell him that his technique sucks and to leave the chinese national team?
no, he will embrace him and have millions of chinese start playing with the feet and copy him.
results are the only judge for how good your technique is.

there was a message here where a chinese player supposedly said he didn't like timo boll's chicken wing looping.
results speak for themselves, timo is one of the best players in history and chinese guy...
table tennis is about effectiveness, it's not art, it's not about beauty, it's about who can win more points, that's it.


Edited by puppy412 - 11/26/2013 at 5:40pm

+1 for Rack.

Alternative.  Get something well designed from the start.  Then learn to play with it.  Possibly, as level rises, make subtle changes, mainly in type of rubber used.

I think that one should play with the fastest equipment that you can push, block, and return serve with satisfactory confidence.
If you cant do those shots well, it wont matter what the speed of drive and kill is.
When I played in a club in london with many nationally ranked players, it was noticeable that the fastest equipment was usually owned by the wannabes rather than the ranked players

Rack wrote: Che current players will be winning championship after championship on proven fundamental techniques that both European and Asian coaches teach which you claim don't exist.

This is true.   People may look a little bit different sometimes because their bodies are not identical, but in the end, certain things are found in the shots and movement of every good player. 

I agree with PPP last post also. 

Let's exclude choppers and penholders for the moment.  Consider the range of equipment used by any of the offensively minded shake-hand table tennis players in the top 500 in the world -- probably would include more than 400 players.  They overwhelmingly choose to play with a certain range of rubber and blades -- somewhere between Korbel and TB-ALC for the most part, with only a few outliers using stuff faster or slower than that range.  So learn to play with something in that range, ideally in the middle of that range, if you are not going to go straight to defense or LP or something like that.  And don't change all the time because each time you are forced to readjust what you are doing and it is hard to really converge on strokes.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/26/2013 at 7:10pm

jkillashark wrote: allw00d4lyfe

Yes.