Y does Joo Se Hyuk win???

because against spiny, fast balls, you can still chop it back.  basically the opposite of the way you put it, he forces players to keep on the pressure til he makes a mistake or stops the pressure at which point joo can counter

Joo doesn't just defend. He chops until he finds a weak loop then counter. From his matches that I've watched, most of his points come from his attacks, not the other guy's mistakes when he's defending.  

dubble post

it's the combination of his defence and attack.

that's the amazing part of LP, varying the backspin on the ball. you'll see that a lot of times players will either dump the ball into the net or loop the ball long. the amount of spin on the ball is just so much. but other than that, it's still amazing how Joo can counterloop like no other. he can also pounce on the ball pretty well if the opponent tries to push the ball against a low chop.

because some players r a bit cocky, thinking that because they r 2 winged loopers who have awesome bh and fh techniques, think they can overcome the chopper...hence the defensive player wins.

sidofmillenium wrote: At my club, I am a solid 1900 looper, and no choppers upto 2100 has a chance against me...they r soo easy.� Therefore, just like that one time, when Wang Liqin raped Joo se Hyuk, why isn't it like that everytime?

This should answer your question.

If you beat the 2100 chopper, will still being 1900 your self, then you should realise that some people struggle more with them then you do, otherwise they wouldn't be rated 2100, right?

well yeah, at smaller levels, is easier to become a chopper.  B/c ppl aren't consistent.  But even at higher level, Joo win's more than 50% points by defending, at world level, how can players be so inconsistent?

sidofmillenium wrote: well yeah, at smaller levels, is easier to become a chopper.� B/c ppl aren't consistent.� But even at higher level, Joo win's more than 50% points by defending, at world level, how can players be so inconsistent?

Pretty easy to answer, it's all about the margins they have. At your 1900 level, you probably can play with pretty big margins, so you don't have to keep all your loops perfect to keep up the pressure, but against a player like Joo, if you don't loop 100%, then he will counter and I guess this is the reason that even the pro's miss some times.

here is what u gotta do, thats what Kreanga's coach agreed, u gotta hit a hard super spinny loop kill on the first and second chop, try to end it quicky, but if it comes back, drop it short, then keep doing it again.  The thing is, his spin variation wont matter if u dont chock up and do your full on stroke.  He beat Ma Long last time in China vs World b/c Ma Long was chocking, and Joo Se Hyuk played more defensively.

Joo has got an excellent style. It is extremely unique if you look at it from the top 20 in the world. He is the only true chopper that stands out in those categories and there are valid reasons why.

1. Top world players are loopers - fantastic loopers, but they never see strong enough defender to play against at that level. Joo is the only one they play and still, they can't figure him out. So, he is a very unique nut to crack. By not seeing strong enough defenders day after day, they can only rely on their skills and theoretical strategy.

2. Joo is not just a defensive player by all means. He has ALL the strokes, but he uses his patience and control using chops from both wings. Basically, a chop sets him up if an opponent makes a mistake. He is ALWAYS on the lookout to kill the ball when he sees a weaker return.

3. Joo is extremely consistent at his chopping game and he is patient to do it for a long time. He keeps bringing the ball back time after time.

4. He can be very agressive. It keeps all the opponents honest. If they don't attack - he will and he is not afraid to finish the point. Rarely do you see Joo reloop the ball - if he attacks, 75% of his loop attacks are immediate winners. Lethal power hidden behind the defensive posture.

5. Extremely quick movement - being a chopper he has to rely on his feet. I would argue that he has the best footwork to make his game powerful.

6. Finally, chopping is more than a mere technique. In theory, a good chop matches the speed and spin of the ball. The techinique consits of the bat catching the ball at the proper contact and create its own spin on the ball. Slower contact or faster contact than the speed and spin of the ball is what makes the ball go up or too fast forward. Joo has got a great feeling of the ball and can match the speed and spin of the ball with great accuracy. Final result - wearing down the opponent. Making them struggle and breaking them down mentally. His power to do so and remain calm is extreme! Watch some of his matches, you can see his opponents disappointments, but you will not even see Joo blink if he missed. He is soo smooth.

So, in essence, he wins because he has got a great technique, strong feeling of the ball, and a very unique style for the current top world table tennis.

1.  Do u remember his falling to the ground in the last point against Schlager in 2003 WTTC?(I know its rare, just playing w/ ya.)

You will find that a good defensive game is paramount to succeeding in today's environment. Gone are the days when you could throw wild haymakers and hope for the best. The ability to keep the point alive and give the other man another look at the ball is a skill that's highly developed in the top ten. Joo Se Hyuk simply chooses to begin the point on the defensive, as opposed to the mainstream first strike game we see dominating tournament play. Like any player who excels in rallies, once he can neutralise the serve, he is on even par with the best of the best. Notice that a competent point constructer like Wang Hao or Wang Liqin will often gain the upper hand against a first strike player like Ma Lin or Ma Long, as long as they can get to a neutral rally. 

tpgh2k wrote: it's still amazing how Joo can counterloop like no other. he can also pounce on the ball pretty well if the opponent tries to push the ball against a low chop.

+1

RedMan wrote: Sid Sid Sid. The last time I check your USATT rating it was 1740. In my book that's a long way from being a "solid 1900 looper". Too get me wrong now. 1740 is a good rating. But to get be a solid 1900 looper, you will need more than what your game has. I played you early last year when you were mid 1500s. You do have a avg game. I beat you pretty easily in 3. You were pretty cocky too. I don't know why, but you were. And yes I use LP and chop/block. You gave up trying to hit through me and resorted to lobing. Didn't work. Someone else here said it perfectly by saying its easier to learn to loop. But when learning both, that's when you really get good.