Y does Joo Se Hyuk win???

This game lacks people who can honestly speak about their game. Always hear excuses and always hear people estimating their game as their "peak" play. Rarely it is so. Most of the time, the game is average and only once in a while somebody shows a really excelling performance.

On the other hand, losses are hidden with a boatload of excuses. My arm hurts, I am sick, I didn't get rest, the rubber is bad, the equipment is new, the table  and lighting suck, etc :)

Sid, Bogey is low/mid USATT 2100 rated chopper and I bet he would LOVE to match up with you in practice or whatever. Give him a PM, it might be fun.

thanks for lightning up the mood BH-Man, I feel ppl take ratings, winning, and who is better way too seriously, I was just trying to make a point, but ppl created a mockery out of me.

Sid, I know someone in Southern Ohio named Joe who is 1900ish defensive player. Maybe you two can match up and have a friendly hit. Maybe you can catch him at Seemiller's camp. He'd enjoy testing out a couple of your theory. Could be you haven't done a tourney in a while and got better to explain your current estimated level. A coulple more tourneys doing a couple events at and over your rating would even it out.

Speedplay wrote: I don't know much about USATT rating, but I do know that if you are 1740 it is highly unlikely that you have beaten several 2100 choppers.

In your heart, you believe you are a certain level. Maybe results against others at the club and what some advanced players say firm that belief. Several tourneys could bring the rating pretty close to where you feel it should be. I recently felt pretty much the same and after a couple tourneys, reality says I was only half better than the 200 points I had thought.

Let's suppose every else is equal.  Looper has a big advantage in term of reaction time.  Chopper often has only a split second to judge the spin/speed/etc of the ball before executing the shot. 
There is an upper limit for human reaction time and movement speed.  There are balls that if hit correctly it is not humanly possible to reach (sort of like a soccer goally vs a penalty kick).  These kill shots are also favor the looper.  So statically, a looper should win most of the time. 
I think we will never see a number 1 chopper unless he can attack as well as the best attacker.  But if so why bothers chopping?  IMO, modern defensive style is a contradiction. Most chopper become chopper because they can't help it (believe me I hear the calling every time I play).

TT over Study wrote: because he gets to 11 points first

I absolutely agree with this.. 100%

y do u care if I won or not?  ppl take competetion way too seriously, especially at this level, where it wont even matter.  To me, stake makes competetion serious.  When there is nothing at stake, I either try to prove myself, or test my game's perfection.  I dont think I am good enough to test my perfection as I still got lots of new strokes to discover, so I keep experimenting.  And if u r trying to test your own perfection, u shouldn't care if your opponent has an excuse or not.  The only reason u give a damn what opponent thinks of u, is the hopeless reason of u trying to earn the approval that u r worthy from no other than your opponent himself.  Such a pitty, very common to find.

sidofmillenium wrote: According to the theory, u should limit your opponent's options as much as u can.  The faster the ball, the spinnier, the more unpredictable, the harder it is for the opponent to pick.  Therefore, looping is clearly the Supreme style of playing, b/c like Wang Hao, u can keep the pressure on, till the opponent makes a mistake. Now, therefore, Joo Se Hyuk, shouldn't even be able to get a game of the opponent of that status.  His coach stated that he is no exception to the rule of being offensive, but he is just more strategical.  I dont get it. At my club, I am a solid 1900 looper, and no choppers upto 2100 has a chance against me...they r soo easy.  Therefore, just like that one time, when Wang Liqin raped Joo se Hyuk, why isn't it like that everytime?

sidofmillenium wrote: But what about BIOLOGY?  Reflex action?  An attacker can exert more power b/c he already knows where the ball is coming, whereas a chopper is always at his feet, he is going against odds.  Kill balls till they get too heavy, then touch drop it, and kill again, its choppers who have less odds of keep returning it.

""They are not the strongest players in the world. On the other hand, there is some objective reason for them to make the finals. Schalger's serves and 3rd-ball attacks are at the same level as the Chinese, and he plays aggressively. In 11-point games, he can often seize the advantage. Wang Hao and Ma Lin lost to two choppers because firstly they did not have an upper hand against choppers in the past, and secondly because their techniques are not sufficiently all-round. An all-round superior player should be able to play against all styles. This also shows that there is life in the chopping style, Especially Joo' style, which is based on Ding Song's specialties and is further developed from that foundation. It strikes a balance between defense and offense, and the spins and placements are very tightly controlled. Not only is the offense mixed into the defense, but the ability to continuously attack is very strong in Joo's style." Yin said. He also admitted that in the last two years, his team has not paid enough attention to the chopping style."

this is from an interview after 2003 wttc paris from a chinese coach.. there are no absolutes in tt, just because a player is a chopper he is limited to just chopping only.. and joo's style is unique, liu said that the quality of chops that joo has is on another level that even chinese players at that time have a hard time returning.. proof? read the above article again

All the coaches in the world agree, that an attacker has more advantage then a defensive player.  And which is why they refuse to agree Joo Se Hyuk plays defensive, but he is a tactical attacker.  Its simple common sense, any player that can increase the speed of the ball, and keep it consistent, has better odds of winning...spin in the game doesn't matter as much w/ the perfect technique.  Topspin is popular b/c of the arc it creates.  If flat hitting on every ball was possible, and it was easy, no one would spin...there is a part of table tennis where the human body can hardly keep up, and thats speed...especially well placed...Ryu Seung Min, gets 1 deep ball, when he was at his top, ppl couldn't return it, same w/ Rosskopf, and Ma Lin.  Any person get a chance to do a full kill, its very hard to return, against a chopper, loopers get that chance again and again, and u can see thats why Joo Se Hyuk lost again Ma Lin in WTTC, b/c Joo played good.  Upsets happen b/c athletes aren't tough enough, theoretically, a looper w/ perfect technique ex. Boll just cant lose to a chopper. 

To be honest, it is easier for me playing against attacker as I am more familiar with them.  The problem is that I have limited opportunity to play against defenders and when you are not familiar with certain styles, it is hard to play against them.  I don't think attacker has the upper hand against chopper, especially in the mental game.  It is just too exhausting to see your strongest loop get back and back again with variations of strong to light backspin (you really have to pay attention and judge correctly).  It is not only a war between you and the chopper, it is a war against yourself also.  As you worn out mentally, defenders get the upper-hand.  

Raising the net won't help the choppers, if anything, it helps heavy topspinners more. I see plenty of players who use anti, SP/KN, or LP/LN and play defensive or mixed style. Changing the rules won't help much at this point. Generating grassroots growth does it and the best way that happens is when schools make it a sport. If the number of players increases and there are many styles around, number of players of each style increases. Sure, top level you don't see defensive style coached much, but there is still the diversity. Good on you for actually writting a letter - a lot of players won't go through the trouble. ITTF listens to letters from national associations more than individuals, but it is nice to see the ITTF president active in several TT forums.