Zhang Jike's opening backhand technique

Chiquita flip or banana flip. Chiquita as in the banana brand. 

chinese sure didnt invented it... check out these links:
http://www.butterfly-world.com/newsletter/butterfly-news40.pdf
http://www.butterfly-world.com/newsletter/butterfly-news41.pdf

Petr Korbel more or less invented this shot.  He called it the Chiquita backhand.  I'm not sure why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmwA6yg7cDY

Baal wrote: Petr Korbel more or less invented this shot.  He called it the Chiquita backhand.  I'm not sure why.

Zhang Jike often likes to open with the bh flip shot, even stepping around on his fh side to favor it. He uses heavy spin and varying degrees of sidespin to counteract and add-to the side spin on the serves. He's doing it pretty much the same as anyone else, but he has an exaggerated motion giving him more spin and power.

What's funny is that back before I fixed my grip about 6 years ago (I learned in the basement with the index finger vertical in-line with the blade handle) is that this was my BH.

The stroke is excellent because it works against top, nospin and underspin, with only minor followthrough changes - from short to mid comfortably.

But once I changed my grip to a more standard neutral, I suddenly developed a forehand but could no longer drop the blade face comfortably to that upside down position, and lost my BH entirely. Literally for years. It's been a slow journey :(

Maybe if I start modifying my BH and FH grips slightly I can get the best of both worlds?

icontek wrote: What's funny is that back before I fixed my grip about 6 years ago (I learned in the basement with the index finger vertical in-line with the blade handle) is that this was my BH. The stroke is excellent because it works against top, nospin and underspin, with only minor followthrough changes - from short to mid comfortably. But once I changed my grip to a more standard neutral, I suddenly developed a forehand but could no longer drop the blade face comfortably to that upside down position, and lost my BH entirely. Literally for years. It's been a slow journey :( Maybe if I start modifying my BH and FH grips slightly I can get the best of both worlds?

The grip that Zhang Jike has favors the backhand.  I changed my grip from forehand-oriented to neutral and now I wonder if I should try the backhand-oriented grip like Zhang Jike to see if it helps improve my backhand block and counter-drive but I'm sure that I will suffer the quality of my forehand loop.

I guess I will give the backhand-oriented grip a try and see if it helps in the rally.  I probably will need to adjust my forehand.  If it's not going to be any better then I think I will stay with the neutral grip (I'm not quick enough to switch from backhand-oriented grip to forehand-oriented grip to do forehand topspin).

FireHorse

rick_ys_ho wrote: Here you go. Article about Zhang's technique.   http://www.bokett.com/tt/dispbbs.asp?boardid=584&Id=258833

That's fantastic. I can't understand one word of it, but its great nonetheless!

gnome wrote: FireHorse wrote: icontek wrote: What's funny is that back before I fixed my grip about 6 years ago (I learned in the basement with the index finger vertical in-line with the blade handle) is that this was my BH. The stroke is excellent because it works against top, nospin and underspin, with only minor followthrough changes - from short to mid comfortably. But once I changed my grip to a more standard neutral, I suddenly developed a forehand but could no longer drop the blade face comfortably to that upside down position, and lost my BH entirely. Literally for years. It's been a slow journey :( Maybe if I start modifying my BH and FH grips slightly I can get the best of both worlds? The grip that Zhang Jike has favors the backhand.  I changed my grip from forehand-oriented to neutral and now I wonder if I should try the backhand-oriented grip like Zhang Jike to see if it helps improve my backhand block and counter-drive but I'm sure that I will suffer the quality of my forehand loop. I guess I will give the backhand-oriented grip a try and see if it helps in the rally.  I probably will need to adjust my forehand.  If it's not going to be any better then I think I will stay with the neutral grip (I'm not quick enough to switch from backhand-oriented grip to forehand-oriented grip to do forehand topspin). FireHorse is this a description of bh-oriented grip/zhang jike's grip?: 1) thumb placed on rubber or higher up on rubber 2) fingers curl less fully around the racket i just want to make i am on same page, and im curious since ive never seen a description on the net..

The backhand-oriented grip is the one that the edge of the blade leaning more to the index finger while the forehand-oriented grip is the one that the edge of the blade leaning more to the thumb.  With backhand-oriented grip, your backhand loop, block are better than the forehand and vice versa.  You can tell if your grip is forehand- or backhand-oriented by judging your strokes but I think the way I describe is pretty accurate.

You can have both descriptions that you described with both forehand- or backhand-oriented. 

FireHorse

In that video is seems that the blade is still somewhat closed... what about using it against heavy backspin?

IMO, i think the name "Chiquita" is a chinese directly translated english. If i am not wrong, the meaning of it is "eat, ball and hit", which means something like hitting by pulling the ball when put together.

I want to thank the thread starter and subsequent posters; you've changed my game for the better, forever.

Backstory:
I mentioned earlier, that like many players, I learned the game in the basement with a bad grip; but it was one that made this shot easy. In fact, it was the only consistent shot that I used in basement pong). But relearning a correct grip cost me that shot, and gave me a traditional "big forehand" instead. In the intervening years, while I was able to learn an "off the table" BH topspin, I could not adapt it to the short game (too slow recovery, big stroke created fear of hitting the table). So for years I went "without" a consistent topspin opener from my backhand (against short and medium balls) and I simply went without, and my game had a glaring hole in it.

Fast forward to this thread:
After watching the pingskills video, I had an epiphany. The old BH shot that was a foundation of my basement grip game was in fact doable with a standard grip. Last night I spent a half an hour drilling it against light underspin and dead ball serves. Holy smokes! Over 80% on table while drilling. In many ways it was like "getting back on a bicycle" - since the basement, I had learned the footwork (step in right foot) it's the same as my FH push against short balls, and the stroke mechanics draw on thousands of hours of old gameplay memories when I first learned the game.

Later I got to use the shot in games as well, and while it didn't always win points outright, it quickly shifted the game from "push push" to topspin. I have a tournament coming up on the 20th, and I am excited about being able to "integrate" this shot between now and then.

Thank you MyTT members, without your help, this shot would have stayed in the basement of my memory!

I'm truly glad this thread has helped others and revived icontek's basement experimentation  

rick_ys_ho wrote: Here you go. Article about Zhang's technique.   http://www.bokett.com/tt/dispbbs.asp?boardid=584&Id=258833

AMAZING article! Thanks for sharing!!!!