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National Coach Li Xiao Dong: Lecture Note

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fieryplayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2008 at 10:08pm
I can read Chinese However it is so long probably when I have time then I read it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2008 at 7:37am
I like that pic of Xiao Zhan and Wang Hao on the beach. Its hilarius.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote master-pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2008 at 8:08am
you mean Xiao Zhan and Liu Guozheng?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2008 at 8:36am
god what is xiao xhan looking at? lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2008 at 9:57am
Oh so it is Liu Guozheng, and theman, that could be many possibilities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zerowings007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2008 at 6:37pm
It is the TT basic.
The first part is talking about judging the spin on the ball and watching the ball contact with the blade very closely. Watch the hand to see when the power is applied to the ball, is it an up or down motion when made contacts with the ball?
Also, the height of the person determines the distant and position from the table that one stands when serving.
This spot shall be very comfortable and easy to move to cover the next shot. Inorder to make strong shots, players should use small/little steps to adjust for the position. Contact the ball before the ball reaches the highest point is to generate more speed.

I think most player know the above points in the article already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2008 at 9:13am
It is basic, but they are crucial points that at least myself for one need to be reminded of... (excuse the Chinese way of putting it into English though... Tongue it will take too much time for me to come up with appropriate English words, but I can clarify if you can't understand)

First phase:
Judgement, particularly in serving, he is talking about variation both in the context of being receiver and server (e.g. which swing direction of the blade is the real one that imparts the spin, the angle of the blade)...

In shot returning, about anticipation (a good example he gives is that of a Japanese player who seems to move so quickly into position, it baffles him until he realised that the move was entirely in anticipation of what is coming next, he can just move and hit blind)...


2nd phase:
In positioning, yup the different physique of the person should be taken into account, but also how to position for a shot, and he mentioned in particular the forehand shot (it should be a triangle between the body, blade and the ball for the most effective shot), how to use big steps to get into position and use small steps to adjust while moving the upper body for the shot...



The 3rd phase which in his words is the "main course", is hitting the ball:
When to hit the ball (on the early rise, late rise, highest point, early fall or late fall) and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each:

On the early rise, the speed is highest and the ball is often below the net,  so it is not easy to control... good for borrowing power from the ball on return, but difficult to put more power into the ball from your own stroke... To him, Wang Liqin tends to take BH shots too early.

And yup, best in his opinion to take the ball on late rise: spin is not as strong as when at highest point and timing is quite good ... good for borrowing power from ball as well as for putting power into the ball...  To him, Wang Hao does this the best.

For the highest point, ball is at highest point with respect to the net but increased spin of ball compared with when it is on the rise... the stroke is more obvious, so it is easier for opponent to judge what is coming...
It is the easiest point for hitting and gives the most control... the loop trajectory is higher as there is more time to prepare for the shot... Ok in his opinion, but should aim to have more of the attacking shot to be in the late rise period.

For the early fall period, need to generate more of the power from your own shot ... probably more for choppers, but even then, he suggests that choppers should not concentrate all their shots at this point as they should aim for more shot variation...

The late fall period is best avoided...

How much power/strength to put into the shot:
To be continued when I feel like blabbing again... Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2008 at 9:50am
Wow finally a what I believe to be accurate translation, thank you very much Usagi!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/05/2008 at 12:27pm
It's nice to see that Liu Guozheng now has the time to frolick on the beach with one of the coaches.  Someone should tell Xiao Zhan to get swimming trunks (or are those boxers?!) a size or two bigger.  No wonder Liu GZ was running.
 
Thanks for the translation Usagi.  I especially like the part about "when to hit the ball".  One thing coaches should also realize is that different players tend to have different abilities and "internal timing" as far as when to hit the ball.  Nothing is more annoying than to see a player with a good off-the-bounce game and then see the coach say something like "Oh, you really should wait until the top of the bounce."  For instance, Erik Lindh had some of the nicest off-the-bouce loops whereas Persson waited until just slightly after the bounce for his loops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2008 at 9:11am
Here is another chunk... Wink
 
Introduction to receiving loop: returning loops is also related to timing.  Firstly, if the opponent�s loop is spinny, the ball should be blocked when it is around the height of the net. If the intention is to counter attack (I guess counter loop), then the ball should be hit when it is around half the net�s height or a bit higher.  If the opponents ball exceeds twice the height of the net, its spin would have completely come out (literal translation), in which case it would be difficult to �press down� (again literal translation) on it, and the only option is to hit it directly.  Secondly, one cannot entirely depend on pressing down on the ball to control its trajectory.  If the blade is pressed down so that it is parallel to the table, it would easily miss the blade or hit the edge.  Actually, such drastic pressing down is not necessary, because control of the ball�s trajectory depends on timing and the direction of force exerted by the body and hand/arm (the word hand/arm is sometimes not differentiated in Chinese).  In other words, it is using the body�s centre of gravity to help the arm to press the ball down.  The body�s centre of gravity or balance is used to: stabilize upper and lower extremities (i.e. arms and legs), assist in generating power and help modify the stroke.  It is sometimes impossible to control a loop entirely with the arm alone, and in particular centre of gravity is needed to control the length and height of the loop.  Thirdly, with backhand receive of loops, one needs to learn how to direct the stroke/power downward and sideways (I think there is an illustration of how it should be for a right hander? � BTW, the article is in Pingpong World, which is a Chinese magazine).  Nowadays, a lot of people teaches that one should direct the stroke forward, but that often leads to the stroke being too upwards and the ball can easily go out.  This is not accurate (in his opinion) as backhand receive of loop should actually direct the stroke towards the right (I guess for a right hander). In this way, counter looping and counter blocking should be much easier.
 
Here is the block of Chinese text:

我再介绍一下接弧圈球的诀窍,也跟击球时间有关,分三个部分:?第一,对方如果拉得比较转,防守的击球点要和球网一般高;如果我想发力回击,就在一个半网高或再高一点的位置击球;如果对方的球过了两个球网的高度,那它的旋转就全出来了,王励勤也难压住,只能直接打。?第二,控制球的弧线,不能完全靠压板。有的人接弧圈球的板形压成了180度,蹭到薄皮算好的,剩下的不是拉漏了,就是打到板边了。其实我们不用压这么狠,要把弧线控制好,一是靠击球时间,二是靠身体和手的用力方向,也就是重心帮助手往下压。身体重心的作用有好几个:稳定上下肢;帮助发力;帮助调节手型。光靠手有时控制不了弧线,而重心对控制弧线长短、高低的作用特别大。?第三,反手接弧圈球的时候,要学会往下横向发力(以右手握拍为例)。现在好多人教球时经常说反手动作应该往前,但动作太往前就容易往上,往上就容易出界。其实这样说并不准确,接弧圈球的时候,反手其实是往右用力,这样反手接弧圈球,反拉反弹就容易得多。?(本文发表在<乒乓世界>第二期上,是李晓东教练在国二队的讲课稿)??

 
I dun quite understand the last part, particularly the bit about the stroke being downwards (?) and sideways...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2008 at 12:08pm
I want the man who wrote the lecture note (Li Xiao Dong) to be my coach.. He is so good.. everything he said make sense (at least to me!!)

ps: thanks for the translation Usagi.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zerowings007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2008 at 1:07pm
It is my understanding the method is to make contact with top part of the incoming ball, and about the same time press down (get the body directly behind the ball). It is with the arm motion sideway just like Ma Lin. The sideway arm motion is not going parallel to the table top, but at an angle downward (right to left for a right handed person).

I hope this will help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/13/2008 at 1:22pm
I think he meant not to move your paddle upward but close the paddle more and to the side..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2008 at 4:40am
Originally posted by zerowings007 zerowings007 wrote:

It is my understanding the method is to make contact with top part of the incoming ball, and about the same time press down (get the body directly behind the ball). It is with the arm motion sideway just like Ma Lin. The sideway arm motion is not going parallel to the table top, but at an angle downward (right to left for a right handed person).

I hope this will help.
 
Hmm... but it seems like it is towards the right for the right hander from the way he mentions right hander and then described the motion to the right later on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2008 at 4:46am
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

I think he meant not to move your paddle upward but close the paddle more and to the side..
 
Yeah, I think it is kinda this way if we take what he said a bit more figuratively... If I did this sideway motion, then maybe the follow through is downwards and to the side?!  I think I have to watch videos of the Chinese playas a bit more to see wat he is talking about...Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usagi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/15/2008 at 11:53pm
I tested this centre of gravity thing... and it seems it actually works!!! Only it takes such intense concentration to do it right because I figured I also have to judge how much spin and speed is on the ball (otherwise it will go in the net Ouch)... still to test BH and it might take some time as I am still getting used to SP...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whirlwind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2008 at 3:40am
very useful article. . thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnny89atc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2008 at 7:16pm
Nice article and very nice translation by usagiClap.I will try some of them soon...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bougainvillea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2008 at 3:34am

Doing my bit of work.


On the distance between the ball and blade

 The longer the distance is, the easier it is to apply more force to the ball. Therefore you are more error-prone and cannot hit the ball consistently. On the contrary the shorter the distance is, the easier it is to control the ball and make adjustments. However in this case it is more difficult to hit the ball with a lot of power. On the basis of abovementioned, we must adjust the distance between the ball and blade according to the speed, spin and placement of the ball. 

 

If it is a great opportunity, the distance shall be longer. If the ball is short and low, don�t swing your arm like this, otherwise the shot has no spin.

 

There are four scenarios when you hit the ball; the first is a great opportunity for smashing, the second is that you take a shot first, the third is that you two exchange rally shots, and the last one is that you are in a positively defensive mode. Almost all the things you can encounter in a table tennis game fall into those four categories. 

 

As for the first scenario, a great smashing opportunity requires greater force, and the centre of the gravity of your body travels over a long distance and the distance between the ball and blade is big. But I have to expatiate on one thing; when you swing your body like this you must not overlook the small but essential elements. Your blade must really HIT the ball. That is no matter how hard you swing your arm; the moment the blade touches the ball you must accelerate. Otherwise you cannot hit the ball really hard. The right way of doing is to relax your body until the blade hits the ball. When that moment comes, you apply whatever you have in your stock. Don�t be stiff in your movement.

 

In the second scenario, you use only half of your strength, and the movement of your body, the distance your centre of gravity travels and the distance between the ball and the blade are all medium. In the last two cases, the power required is even smaller; you use about 30-40% of your strength in an exchange of rapid rally shots, and 20-30% in positive defense mode. It�s easier said than done. There are fine differences between great power and medium one, and the medium between the small one.

There are a few tips.

First, the centre of gravity of your body has everything to do with hitting the ball. To add more spin to the ball, the centre of gravity must move over a short distance in an explosive manner (This is my interpretation, the coach uses jargon here). A lot of guys hit the ball using only  their hands and arms, while some other guys� shoulders are really stiff. They are like a big fellow who has lots of muscle but just have no clue how to direct his power through the right channel. Another thing is that make sure that you hit the ball somewhere around the head of your blade, because your shots will be powerful and spinny and the trajectory shall be good.

 

Second, look for the sweet spot where you can merge all the power, no matter it is yours or your opponents', into one. When you find the sweet spot, you can serve nicely, return others� service with ease, flip balls and hold the ball down really nice when you are defending� It is not all about �borrowing� power from your opponents, you can �borrow� their spins too.   

 

Third, when hitting the ball concentrate your power at one point. When you strike, your power goes all through the blade so you can feel it. The same goes true about pushing, serving and blocking. That is, the place you hit the ball is where you concentrate all your power. Coach Zeng Chuanqiang once remarked that when you hit the ball in this way you could feel that the ball was really �heavy� on the blade. It�s a good way to put it.   

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Actually he means that if you want to return a loop drive, the directon in which you exert your force on the ball is vital; you cannot rely on the angle of your blade only, for in most cases even if your blade is parallel to the table, you would miss your shots. The key is that you hold your upper body and arms fast, press the ball downwards with your centre of gravity. As for returning backhand loop drive, in the past people would suggest  you  to bend  your blade forwards and press the ball forward.  That is not the case ,  because if you  do that  you are likely to send the ball over the table. Your blade moves from your left  side  to the right  side. If you do so, you will find it is much easier to backflip and block.
Originally posted by zerowings007 zerowings007 wrote:

It is my understanding the method is to make contact with top part of the incoming ball, and about the same time press down (get the body directly behind the ball). It is with the arm motion sideway just like Ma Lin. The sideway arm motion is not going parallel to the table top, but at an angle downward (right to left for a right handed person).

I hope this will help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lukas K. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2008 at 1:01pm
Thank you very much for translating this article! It is basic knowledge but the details are quite interesting, especially the part about blocking.

Unfortunetly only few chinese papers about table tennis are translated. Other table tennis coaches told me, that nearly all german or english books about table tennis are transleted in China.

We should learn from the best and there is no doubt who's the best at the moment. A reason for China dominating world table tennis is on the one hand the quantity of training but on the other hand the knowladge of chinese coaches is propably also at a higher level.

It would be great if someone could translate some further interesting articles here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote takaaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2008 at 1:31pm

i must say that this is by far the most intelligent thread that this forum has ever had.  thanks, pp dui for bring this lecture to us.

hopefully, somebody can bring some more lectures like this in the future, where you have chinese coaches discussing their philosophy of the game.
 
if only we could have more intelligent threads like this on the forum...
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oh, and thanks to the translators for the translation...
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He is good Stern%20Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XxbOOmxX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2009 at 10:42am
Good stuff. more please.
 
load me up with useful information. Versus the club pros who do nothing but horde their limited knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tristan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2009 at 11:39am
That's extremly interesting. Many thanks to the poster and the translators :).

About the backhand, what the coach says is 'physically' logical... In tennis, you are taught to let your arm swing to your right when doing a backhand (even to let it move to your back, since it is naturally 'driven' by the raquet to that spot of the body). And yes, not producing a forward arm stroke when hitting the ball, but a natural side stroke, greatly improves 1/ball control 2/power in tennis.

I guess this is not different in TT. By the way, I achieve more and more backhand topspins adding an extra side spin at the end of the stroke, with a lot of success. Especially when returning short serves. That's the only way I found to transmit force to the ball when my arm is in extension near the net.

So I'm glad it may be the proper way according to this coach. Uh, I want to practise right now! ;)

Sorry if i'm not clear enough on this, this would be quite easier in french ;)
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Yeah, good point. My BH and FH Loops improved A LOT when I realized that the side motion is what really lets you control the ball. It basically helps you to hit the ball with a much better arc that will keep the ball on the table while giving it more power and spin.
 
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Originally posted by Lukas K. Lukas K. wrote:

Thank you very much for translating this article! It is basic knowledge but the details are quite interesting, especially the part about blocking.

Unfortunetly only few chinese papers about table tennis are translated. Other table tennis coaches told me, that nearly all german or english books about table tennis are transleted in China.

We should learn from the best and there is no doubt who's the best at the moment. A reason for China dominating world table tennis is on the one hand the quantity of training but on the other hand the knowladge of chinese coaches is propably also at a higher level.

It would be great if someone could translate some further interesting articles here.
 
do you mean that all the knowledge in the germans books come from chinese books?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustyfo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2009 at 12:42pm
no he means that all the European ones have been translated to Chinese, while we don't have any of the Chinese knowledge translated.
Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha

FH: Tenergy 05

BH: Acuda S1
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