|
|
Chinese forehand Vs. Euro forehand? |
Post Reply | Page <1 13141516> |
Author | ||||
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
That's correct. Unfortunately, most players in the U.S. never got properly instructions how to loop after they become fairly efficient at countering back and forth... |
||||
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Oh I get it, you're actually talking about learning the loop AFTER mastering the counter. In that case I completely agree with learning the legs/waist first since you already know the correct arm movement anyways...
|
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Basic fh/bh counter teaches you a lot for feeling the ball - to make those micro-adjustments.
|
||||
Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40° BTY T64 210g |
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
+1
|
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
GoldenDragoon
Silver Member Joined: 01/09/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 769 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
And is usually easier to counter attack, especially off an opening loop. |
||||
Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red |
||||
tomtat92
Member Joined: 06/03/2012 Status: Offline Points: 27 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
In a year I have been studying Ma Longs technique because I was very intrested to know how it would feels to play like Ma Long. Under this year of exploration and researching I have learnd so much about table tennis, how the body works, and how I can use my new knowledge in tabletennis in meny other sports like Handball, swimming, Athletics etc. I have been struggling a lot under this year, losing to meny bad players, lost my confident totaly because of my technique changing, meny missunderstandings about the how the technique should be, learning the wrong technique, meny peoples who thought I should go back to my normal style, and so on. But here and then I got true insights about the technique. I understood which grip i should use, how I should use my legs, waist. I understood how much importans the left shoulders and arm has to be able to have a stable upperbody, and make the rotation in waist much faster and in a more natural motion for the body. A stable body is the most important thing if you are searching for controll in your game. Ma Long is outstanding in this I think. When im playing now, I always know why I miss and how I did that perfect shot. I can always correct myself and it gives me big confidence. Last month I have always been on top every training, every match, because I know how to be on top technicaly. Tierdness is the only treat against a good training session. I didn't thought it was possible for me to feel a bit what Ma Long feels when he plays, but atm i think i do so. I feel the controll, power from both wings, I can feel a bit of the quickness of Ma long and ZJK backhand counter, the big natural forehand swing with also fast recovery. And a much faster footwork. Im so glad I tried to understand the chinese technique and what benefits it gives me compared to my old playingstyle. Belive it or not but I think Ma Long has the easiet technique of all players. Edited by tomtat92 - 12/22/2012 at 1:02pm |
||||
TTFrenzy
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2012 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 369 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
yeap im glad for you mate , and all of these technical difficulties on technique changes are totally worth it . I suppose ma long has the "easiest" technique in terms of spinning the ball at maximum spin and speed , but when it comes in terms of training u need extremely good body & leg balance footwork and correct/explosive upper body motion to achieve stroke like ma long's with consistency . So its not as "Easy" as it seems !
|
||||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Happy it worked for you - you sound like a pretty fit and athletic guy. Me, I started playing tournament level a year and 5 months ago in terms of training/playing regularly at a club. My knees are worse, my back has a herniated disc and my arthritis still annoys me. So I admire Ma Long's loop, but I know that that level of movement and bent knees is not in my future. Thankfully, I could loop on my backhand long from the very first day I started hitting so I have contented myself that if my forehand loop gets as good as my backhand loop, I will be satisfied. In practice, it's far more powerful, far less consistent, but still something I am proud of. That's the one good thing about the USATT system - it lets you know when you are making marginal improvements. That forehand is getting me a few more points now that it didn't get me before. And if I get tired of looping, I will switch to pips - I've discovered that anything that helps your mental approach to the game helps your overall technique in the long term. Just hope I have the time.
|
||||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||||
LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I guess you use a sticky topsheet since your using ma long technique ? |
||||
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
||||
seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
This is interesting. Do you have a video of your sessions? You made me really curious. |
||||
pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
|
||||
Tao Li
Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: Vancouver Status: Offline Points: 3 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
personally, different training system
Tao Li
|
||||
www.tabletennistaoli.com
|
||||
APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Comparing TT to Running is just not applicable ( Copying Usain Bolt) technique is only a part of Table tennis, there are so many other factors that go in to making a top player. There can be two players with exactly the same technique, but one is far better than the other. Copying the top Chinese players won't work for other nations because they don't have the numbers to work with, Chinese players are the cream of the cream of the cream, other nations only have the cream x1.
In History the very few times the Chinese have been beaten ( Hungary Sweden) it was because the opponents were playing differently, not copying. England has had a Chinese head coach for about 15 yrs now (Jia Yi Lui) and regularly has sent players to train in China, no sign of any Ma Longs yet, I wonder why? Back to the history lesson, against the Hungarians, the Chinese were the fittest fastest most agile players on the planet, but they lost simply because the could not cope with the heavy Glue powered topspin of Jonyer, Gergely and Klampar, what did they do about it? they tried to adapt their own style of play to cope using LP combination hitters to counteract the topspin, but were again beaten by the Swedes who had upped the game by taking the ball earlier and with more power. This time they Changed tack and adopted the more 'Euro style' led by Kong Ling Hui, and have gradually become more dominant, using the huge pyramid base of players to perfect the modern style of play. Its impossible to Copy China, but when China copies, beware.
|
||||
The Older I get, The better I was.
|
||||
BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Ditto here in Korea. It is all about FH to FH a gazillion times without a lot of spin close to the table at a fast tempo. U1000 USATT level players can bang it back and forth 50-100x and they are not yet learning the loop. Coaches all got a system and stick to it with a gazillion multi and single ball drills. |
||||
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
||||
ttTurkey
Silver Member Joined: 09/07/2010 Status: Offline Points: 516 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Good summary, basically you can't out-China China, you have to out innovate China. There are a couple of things that frustrate me when I hear people complain about not being able to beat China because of China's number of players / system / bla bla: 1. It has been done before, albeit not very often. 2. I could be wrong, but China seems to be pushing the envelope the hardest on developing new styles and techniques while other nations appear to be resigned to their fate (perhaps a mistaken perception on my part) |
||||
blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
That is indeed quite funny, i thought that it would be quite easy to progress to looping once the countering is at a good level, just add more brushing and more leg/waist action. However, that said, I do have encountered many players who can counter like madmen in practice but can't manage to loop a single one of my long fast serves during matches...
|
||||
-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
||||
APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I really could not have put both points better myself, I also think that the gradual tightening up of equipment regulations over the last 20 years has made an innovation based on equipment far less likely, the main future innovations will have to be technique based, making it most likely that they will come from China anyway ( so everyone else is copying) meaning we are likely to see even more of a Chinese dominance.
|
||||
The Older I get, The better I was.
|
||||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
CH vs EU also has a lot to do with the type of rubbers used on the FH while developing strokes and technique. The sticky rubbers a la H3 require a certain stroke, which is more full. The friction based Japanese and German rubbers, in general, are more forgiving.
|
||||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||||
boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
chinese loop is so slow but i like it more because it feels like im doing the work and when i get a good one it feels great
question is how can i loop and counterloop faster using the body is slow but powerful |
||||
butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
||||
Clarence247
Silver Member Joined: 02/11/2014 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 557 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
This is absolutely NOT a myth - Chinese work harder at technique, and they also work more efficiently. A Chinese practice session would mean practising 1 stroke for 3 hours - first the stroke vs a flat ball, then the same stroke applied to a topspin and then the same stroke applied to a chop. No matter what stroke it is. This is at intermediate level - at beginner it would be 1 month vs flat ball only then move on... Chinese also disect play more - one small movement at a time, you may for example have learnt topspin (loop) - then when they teach you to flick the wrist at the end to add some sidespin - it means flicking your wrist for the next 3 hours... They do not mix techniques in the same day - unless all techniques have been already mastered and we are talking about top level players. They often have re-calibration days focussed on only 1 aspect (for example chop) where they work on it because they notice slight decline in performance, OR simply because they want to change slightly their style of hitting that stroke to stay one step ahead of the opponent. Training is daily. What more does one want for training harder at technique - they often don't even play or simulate match situations much. They focus on the letters, and very rarely on the words - Europeans try to form sentences right away. Forget Chinese living abroad - when the reality of living in a country which has a higher cost of living effects your lifestyle and they cannot be so meticulous anymore, or even worse Chinese born abroad with mixed mentalities. I mean Chinese living in China.
|
||||
OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max) Mantra M (Max) Backup: Yasaka Extra Offensive, Nittaku H3 Prov 729-802 SP |
||||
Clarence247
Silver Member Joined: 02/11/2014 Location: Malta Status: Offline Points: 557 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I think recent rule changes were all in favour of the rest of the world, and were partly aimed at trying to curb Chinese dominance.
1) the ball is bigger - favouring more power 2) no speed glue - favouring Euro Rubbers 3) No hiding services - an area where Chinese excelled and were unequalled. The difference between efficiency of the serve has been reduced. 4) set of 11 as opposed to 21 - giving more frequent breaks, reducing role of pure fitness, and most of all not allowing a Chinese to have 5 consecutive demolarising services against their opponents. I think it is hard to argue that any of these changes favour the Chinese, however they actually adapted to the changes and keep flourishing. [/QUOTE] I really could not have put both points better myself, I also think that the gradual tightening up of equipment regulations over the last 20 years has made an innovation based on equipment far less likely, the main future innovations will have to be technique based, making it most likely that they will come from China anyway ( so everyone else is copying) meaning we are likely to see even more of a Chinese dominance.
[/QUOTE]
|
||||
OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max) Mantra M (Max) Backup: Yasaka Extra Offensive, Nittaku H3 Prov 729-802 SP |
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
my coach who have trained in china twice told me that kids wake up at 5am and do their shadow practice while making faint sounds ala kung fu style. these kids already have good basics yet they still practice their shadow drills.
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I second that question!
|
||||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||||
zephyr
Member Joined: 10/14/2011 Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It's all about timing. |
||||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
. . . . "It's all about timing."
I recently switched back to a Chinese rubber (H3 Neo) on FH and the timing is much different. Yesterday, Tuco observed during a match that my body was way out in front of my arm/stroke. I lost 1 - 3 to a 1650 level player who I usually beat.
Edited by tommyzai - 02/20/2014 at 2:56pm |
||||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||||
boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
contact is early when playing against chopper, against topspin its in front of the body.
but the problem is after chinese loop its hard to recover for next shot thats the problem Edited by boaspirit - 02/21/2014 at 1:40am |
||||
butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
||||
DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Keh?
|
||||
I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
|
||||
boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
sorry i meant off the bounce, lol early sounds kinda weird |
||||
butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
||||
DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Keh?! |
||||
I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
|
||||
boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
whats up with you? trying to spam? |
||||
butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
||||
DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
No spamming - I just don't understand. You loop off the bounce against chop?
|
||||
I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
|
||||
Post Reply | Page <1 13141516> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |