Pushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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PanPong

Beginner

Joined: 01/01/2011
Location: Nippon
Status: Offline
Points: 61

Posted: 01/20/2011 at 2:37pm

I don't believe pushblocking is a complex or difficult style at all. However it adds some dimension to the game and I think it would be fun to play a few.

But why only trouble against two-winged loopers? I imagine a defender with a strong attack could destroy any pushblocker. Quite simply because the LP's could be used to take any spin off, roll shots on the backhand and so forth.

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Pushblocker View Drop Down

Gold Member

Joined: 12/09/2009
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1976

Posted: 01/20/2011 at 1:43pm

Jonan wrote:

It's always easy to use strategy to beat someone who has no strategy, but if someone is actually using strategy and adapts theirs because they realize and are aware of what you are trying to do...it goes back and forth. Inverted with good strategy can beat a long pip player with no strategy just sticking his pips out there and not really aware of what he's doing or the other guy is doing, but a long pip player with multiple strategies who adapts or neutralizes the other persons' strategy and thus game, he's gonna have the upper hand.

IF the inverted player has the SKILLS to overcome a good strategy of the long pips blocker, then they will win.. Without those skills, even the best strategy won't help.. For example, the only style that gives me significant trouble are players who can consistently loop with good spin and medium speed from BOTH sides against deep , low and aggressive pushes. Based on my experience, there are VERY FEW players below 2200 level that can do that consistently from BOTH sides. My style exploits weaknesses and if a opponent has a weaker side, I will be able to exploit that and no strategy will help... Again, I know very few that can do it.. Larry Bavly is one example of someone who can.. I have the highest respect for his game!!

Edited by Pushblocker - 01/20/2011 at 1:45pm

2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand

Jonan

Premier Member

Joined: 02/18/2009
Location: Elsweyr
Status: Offline
Points: 2933

Posted: 01/20/2011 at 1:24pm

Edited by Jonan - 01/20/2011 at 1:28pm

jt99sf

Premier Member

Joined: 04/29/2005
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 4949

Posted: 01/20/2011 at 1:05pm

This is quite pointless. Nothing like reading 2 Alpha-males cyber-jabbing each other.

Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil

Pushblocker View Drop Down

Gold Member

Joined: 12/09/2009
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1976

Posted: 01/20/2011 at 12:45pm

ZJKandMLfan wrote:

HOWEVER, Once you understand the theory of long pips, and you play multiple times against is executing a strategy, (no offense) it gets rather easy to play.

So, if this is the case, why do I still beat the same people (and other that I haven't beaten before) that I'm playing once or twice a week at the club?? Some of them played me 100's of times and still lose to me.. (and I play mostly against 2000 - 2200 level players at the club)?? There are plenty of players that used to beat me all the time and now I'm beating them all the time.. A chopper rated in the 2100's at my club that used to beat me 80% of the time now has lost 12 consecutive matches against me including one at a tournament and 11 at the club)

a 2200 LP player and a 2200 inverted player IS VERY DIFFERENT. I can honestly say out of experience, that while a 2200 LP player has the potential to upset much higher rated players because of their unique style, THEY CAN ALSO, lose to a much lower rated player that is an extremely experienced player against LP

This is MANY times the case but please look at my rating history on usatt.org and you will see that it is extremely rare that I lose to anybody much lower than my rating.. I did lose on paper to a 1980 rated player at the Teams but he was UNRATED and he lost to a significantly underrated player and therefore got a lower initial rating but that really wasn't his level.. I have not lost to anybody below 1960 rating in a tournament in 10 years.

I have seen these kind of upsets happen ALL THE TIME, where an 1800 player will upset a 2200 LP player because they have a very good strategy against LP AND is very experienced playing it.

Yes, it happens but again, feel free to check my rating history and all my wins and losses and you will see that there are no bad losses..

A 2200 inverted player however, is much less likely to lose against much lower rated players AND much less likely to beat a much higher rated player.

Again, that's often the case but not always.. I don't want to mention his name but there is a very well known 2150 - 2250 level looper who always loses to long pips blockers even if they are much lower rated than him.. He gets back to his rating at the next tournament when he doesn't play a long pips blocker.. Just like there are long pips blockers who have a weakness for certain styles, there are inverted players who have problems against certain styles..

I play in a house league at my club with players ranging from about 1900-2500 (U.S rating) players and on my team there are 3 long pips players that play with Tibhar Grass.

I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME.

Again, I don't contest that this is the case with MANY long pips players, just not me.. I've been playing tournaments in this country since 2000 and haven't been upset badly for the entire time.. Generally, you are right and this is the case but in my specific case, my results paint another picture.

Long pips should be valued and it is a great addition to our table tennis game because it's just another variation of playing. People that struggle with it should learn how to deal with it rather than just saying it's stupid and inverted is the way to play.

And LP players SHOULD NOT think so confidently saying they can beat 90% of the ppl because of the fact that more and more people are learning how to play against long pips properly.

Again, how do you explain that I'm still beating the same people after a LONG time playing against them??

Just an example, a couple years back, me and two of the loewr rated LP players from my club went with me to Milcreek Open in PA.

One of the LP Players, Philip Poon beat Dan Seemiller JR (executing A VERY GOOD game much like Oliver's). a 1900 LP player beating a 2200 player that is well coached is a very good win.

However, scroll down and take a look at his losses (btw this is 2008 Milcreek Open) he loses to Richard chan, an 1800 player that i don't think even deserved 1800 at the time.

Richard, despite his low rating, PLAYED AN EXCELLENT game against LP. He served a deep no-spin ball and no matter how Philip hit that third ball back, Richard had a great understanding which led to an easy third ball attack.

despite philip's great placement with his chops and mind you, he kept most of them short, I could see Richard was too well experienced against the LP. He knew exactly what the spin was so no matter how many variations it looked like Philip was doing, he cud return the ball well enough for him to think of a way to attack later on in the point.

That was 2008 ladies and gentlemen and today, its 2011. I can see that even at my own club, almost everybody knows the basics of playing LP now and for philip, it is much harder for him to win games.

LP has been around for a long time, and with each year, more and more people are learning how to deal with it

Again, you are right and in MOST cases it is like that but like I said, I have been around the block a few times and play many times against really good players over and over again and there is nobody that is doing much better against me than when we first started playing each other.. OK, there is ONE single player who is now doing better against me but his rating has also come up nicely as he is improving.. Those whose rating stayed about the same still have the same results or worse against me than they used to.

BTW, the Florida State Closed (State Championship) was held at my club and most of the players that I beat to win the State Championsihip were from my club! They all know me and play me on a weekly basis..

Edited by Pushblocker - 01/20/2011 at 12:50pm

2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand

ZJKandMLfan View Drop Down

Super Member

Joined: 01/19/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 215

Posted: 01/20/2011 at 10:44am

Although many people underestimate your game Oliver, I don't think you should be so confidant in saying you can easily bash the people that disregard your game.

I can honestly say that i understand LP VERY, VERY WELL considering for the last 3 years almost on a daily basis, i've played against 1900-2000 sometimes 22-2400+ (U.S) LP players although in my case, it wud be 25-2800 long pips players (since i live in canada and the rating system is different).

Long pips especially a style like yours IS EXTREMELY difficult to play the first couple times playing it (and i can see the korean was not taking you lightly because he was confused by how well your placement was and the spin, which he is definitely not used to).