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How to kill non-short balls at the net-height?

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Cynicyclonian View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/14/2011 at 6:09pm
I can loop kill deep balls at the bottom of net or lower height by just going up with my blade.  And of course, I can flat hit balls above net.  But, I have problem killing balls that are at the net height, and come at me with pace, so I cannot wait for them to drop, and can't attack them either.  I end up blocking/lobbing/chopping them and go into defense.  My footwork fails to catch up.

Help me?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 11:32pm
against underspin or topspin and what amount?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cynicyclonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 11:33pm
Well, I can flip everything but heavy underspin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2011 at 11:37pm
what's it so different to lower height balls?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2011 at 12:06am
Try adding a bit of motion that lets you brush over the top of the ball.  Kind of start the swing like you're looping a weak backspin ball, then finish the motion with your racket going over the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/15/2011 at 9:34am
Originally posted by Cynicyclonian Cynicyclonian wrote:

Well, I can flip everything but heavy underspin. 


so by process of elimination, you are saying that it's only deep fast heavy underspin pushes at net height that you can't attack?

or is it also mid depth fast heavy underspin that you can't attack?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cynicyclonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 3:46am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Try adding a bit of motion that lets you brush over the top of the ball.  Kind of start the swing like you're looping a weak backspin ball, then finish the motion with your racket going over the ball.

Didn't work.

Icontek, If a ball has topspin on it, I can still kill it by going up with my racket, but I cannot do this to balls that are almost flat hittable, but not quite, coz if they jump, they go out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 4:11am
Originally posted by Cynicyclonian Cynicyclonian wrote:

I can flat hit balls above net.  But, I have problem killing balls that are at the net height, and come at me with pace 

 Don't we all? No- one said it was gonna be easy, The incoming ball that you wish to kill is a very high risk shot for an advanced player, most would be either taking is later and topspinning back using placement and spin to try to gain an advantage, blocking it, counterhitting it, chopping, fishing, etc but not killing it, wait for an easier ball to do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2011 at 10:21am
I think one can flip the ball over net, and let ball drop on the table using small force. If the ball is out of table, one may have used too much energy for flipping.
 
The ball is not very fast, but it is faster than block and chop, therefore ball placement is key.
 
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cynicyclonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 12:52am
I finally discovered it!  You cut the ball how you would if you were chopping, but do it to it loop it.  In fact, that's how a lot of choppers kill it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by Cynicyclonian Cynicyclonian wrote:

I can flat hit balls above net.  But, I have problem killing balls that are at the net height, and come at me with pace 

 Don't we all? No- one said it was gonna be easy, The incoming ball that you wish to kill is a very high risk shot for an advanced player, most would be either taking is later and topspinning back using placement and spin to try to gain an advantage, blocking it, counterhitting it, chopping, fishing, etc but not killing it, wait for an easier ball to do that.
The urge to kill it is either in your nature, or induced by the pressure your superior opponnent is bringing upon you. That pressure is indeed intense, because you KNOW that if you do not make a quality return, your opponent will end the point from you return that isn't perfect. That can be rough. Being able to kill it by good timing, a little more open blade and forward weight transfer isn't exactly a high percentage shot as Andy is so correct in saying, it is way harder to execute that shot if your anticipation, position, and ready posture/balance are not in order, PLUS not to mention that pressure opponent puts on you knowing you must make it land and land well. That is why superior opponents win - they impose their will on you and you know you have to be near-perfect, or you perish. That is how the class players win without even hitting half the time.
 
Now if your opponent is anywhere near your level, what Andy suggests is outstanding advice. You are not under terrible pressure and can place the ball to fight to kill or otherwise end the point later. Those kind of thinking help the winners not be on the losing end, given most other things equal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 9:48pm
as usual, sound and unglamorous gritty truth from andy. thanks.

it's far better and safer to flat hit those light and medium underspin balls that are below net height, eh?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 11:04pm
If that bottomspin ball is one that crosses the endline, my opponent just put a smile on my face. He just gave me the ball that I am most comfortable attacking with heavy spin or power at a high percentage and with placement control. Looping or loopdriving against a long underspin ball ought to be one of the easiest offensive shots in the game. Now if that ball is short, it gets a lot more complicated to aggressively attack it, probably better to play position and get another ball with brighter possibiliites.
 
I would like to hear how Andy handles those short pushes if he is a step away from the table expecting and attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruit loop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2011 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

as usual, sound and unglamorous gritty truth from andy. thanks.

it's far better and safer to flat hit those light and medium underspin balls that are below net height, eh?




I think the only times one should flat hit is when smashing or short aggressive flip. At least that's the only times that i do..
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