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[Video] Updates on my training

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ohhgourami View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/02/2011 at 5:23am
It has been a long time since I've posted a video of myself playing. Lucky for you guys, it is also a video of parts of my lesson. Feel free to critique, although I hope you guys get more out of the videos than I do, especially who are learning Chinese fh.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDYGeXWdgyY

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3R_vxwudoU

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DmDm-umSo

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Updated 1/07/11: Focus on usage of right leg and waist rotation.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KuyfaraN0

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6_kdT4FATM

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Updated 1/21/11: Focus on BH to FH Transition

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pmVmKjHxGE

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5KyK7vBZA

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNpee66VQmg

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nVnlm1bbXs

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Updated 1/28/11: More BH to FH Transition
Most of this lesson was getting my feet to move correctly and getting in place to hit.  I know many of you guys have told me to do the elbow snap, but I've gone over this with Steven and he is fine with me not snapping (at least for these shots).  I've also noticed another factor that adds to my stiff look: the way I pull my arm back to take my next shot.  This will definitely be the thing I'll work on for the next week or so until my next lesson!

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y-cYuyHJS0

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyQnigWRCXU

Enjoy!
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kenneyy88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 5:41am
I think you aren't snapping your forearm. Your coach shows you it at :24. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 10:05am
It looks to me you could start your swing a bit higher.  In the video it is starting from below knee level(for lifting backspin.)  It works fine for initiating the first shot but the subsequent ones come in with a decent amount of topspin, so it is beneficial that you capitalize on it and hit more through the ball with a more parallel swing for more speed(by producing a lower arc.)  It helps improve the pacing with more consistent contact points(b/w top-of-bounce and early fall.)


Edited by zeio - 01/02/2011 at 10:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 11:02am
1. You are contacting the ball on the side and too far away from your body when You should be contacting the ball closer and in front of your body.
2. Try to put your left leg more forward and open up your body more. Use more body, your stroke is still all arm and almost none body rotation.
3. Kenney is right, during counter hit use more elbow, and like zeio said, use shorter movement.


Edited by dragon kid - 01/02/2011 at 11:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 11:45am
I've lost my 2 replies due to internet disconnection...:(:( But anyway, two thumbs up to your courage for posting up your video.

Firstly, try to take videos from the side, as that will expose a lot of problems much clearer(as it has a depth perspective!)

Secondly, think of your elbow as a pivot! You are consciously lifting up your elbow as I can see, treating this lifting of your elbow as a source of energy. This is called 抬肘 in Chinese forums.
This is the cause for why you're not snapping your forearm as kenney88 observed. Keep your elbow much closer to your body!

I highly recommend reading articles by 德瑞克 of the Bokett forums. It has been a great help to me! Here is the link: http://bokett.com/tt/dispbbs.asp?boardid=118&Id=198409  

Hope you'll improve further in the new year!



Edited by blahness - 01/02/2011 at 11:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PanPong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 12:15pm
Some things I noticed:

In my opinion your arm is way to farr out from your body. At times it's almost as if you're making a 90-degree angle with your armpit. If you look at your coaches demonstration he too has his arm much closer into his body.

You are sticking your arm very far out to get to the ball and it looks like at times your just leaning over to the right to hit. Probably a combination of footwork and technique at this stage.

Wristwork seems to be lacking in your shots.

Little to no transfer of weight in your shots. This is a bit of of a carry on from the second point, but you're just leaning and hitting with arm only. It appears that you're too concerned with the motion of the arm itself and forgetting about using your legs and body.

Finally, it might just be the angle at which the camera is placed but you seem to maintain a pretty side-on position for most of the time. It's not too much of a problem really, especially since you're training your forehand. Though I would keep an eye on it, not that you develop some bad habits for in game or when it comes to having to link together your forehand and backhand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 12:18pm
your technique looks so unnatural to me. It looks like you're trying to copy the stroke of a pro player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PanPong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

your technique looks so unnatural to me. It looks like you're trying to copy the stroke of a pro player.


Wang LiQin I suspect... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 12:44pm
being a right handed player your stance in a forehand drive should not be parrelel rather the right foot should be behind the left foot of yours. it prevents you from having a good body rotation and your left shoulder doesn't go with the rotation and return to its original position when you drive making your strokes more on arm swings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 12:51pm
With respect to all the above answers, I'm sure his coach knows what he's doing, whilst everyone has their 'you should be doing this' reply these things take time, many players never put in enough hours in the required space of time to get things right, because the amount of hours needed is unrealistic for them. So technical perfection is not always possible. It won't stop the coaches taking your money though....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 1:14pm
With respect to your answer APW, there are things that is basic in our technical development. It's not like everyone is saying that he has to have a perfect technique.
For example if he contact the ball too far from his body it will hinder him to put maximum power on his shots.
The point of putting up a video is to get input to improve. At the end of the day, It comes down to ohh to try to pick up which advises that he thinks he should take that can improve him. It's not like he has to do what everyone said.. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 3:31pm
Thanks for the advice. and sorry about the camera angle.

I agree with you guys on the elbow snap as I have used it before. This lesson was mainly focused on breaking some habits with my legs and using them properly. I'll defintely try to put that back into my shot.

I didn't realize I was standing so parallel and that will get fixed.

I was asking my coach about the length my arm is extended and he said that was fine. I won't be restricted on power as long as I don't lock my elbow.

I'm surprised no one commented about how high I stand. I know if I bend my knees even more, the waist rotation thing will get fixed automatically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Thanks for the advice. and sorry about the camera angle.

I agree with you guys on the elbow snap as I have used it before. This lesson was mainly focused on breaking some habits with my legs and using them properly. I'll defintely try to put that back into my shot.

I didn't realize I was standing so parallel and that will get fixed.

I was asking my coach about the length my arm is extended and he said that was fine. I won't be restricted on power as long as I don't lock my elbow.

I'm surprised no one commented about how high I stand. I know if I bend my knees even more, the waist rotation thing will get fixed automatically.

Your form is not bad at all... That said, your waist rotation is minimal, as you turn too slowly, so you used mostly arm and wrist.  You started your swing with your weight on your right foot, which is good, but then you failed to transfer it to your left leg as you completed the stroke, so it took away most of your power and spin... The optimal stance before you loop should have your body weight in the neutral position before shifting it to your right leg as the ball comes to you.  In order to correct your balance, I recommend that you keep a neutral stance (body weight firmly in between your two feet) when you practice the same loop from now on.  Do not shift your weight to your right foot at all even when you reach for a wide fh loop... Move both of your feet to do so while maintaining your balance right in the middle.  Use your waist rotation to generate power.  Once you can do the same drill (as in the video) comfortably, then you can starting shifting weight between your right and left foot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 10:55pm
well put roundrobin! steven should be good enough to block into the same spot so that you can work on the hip rotation part. i would suggest working on the elbow snap with rotation at 40% effort. you're going to be moon balling it a bit but it'll help with timing and feel. then start going at it with a more forward follow through. that should get it done =)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quakerroatmeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 11:02pm
I've had the exact same problem with being too stiff, not using enough forearm/snapping my elbow as well. My coach had to emphasize and remind me every time, now I believe it's getting better. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 11:32pm
oohgourami I gather you haven't been playing seriously for all that long and that you are just moving into an intermediate(ish) level. As such you look like you are coming along fine. One thing that I can't recommend highly enough is that you find a decent chopper (not easy to do I know) and practice regularly against him/her. Looping against chop will teach you to get spin, power and dip in your shots. Also, the often uneven returns (in spin and length) a chopper gives you will get you accustomed to making the constant tiny adjustments one needs to do when looping in a match. Too many players learn to loop only against block and/or multi-ball in a robotic fashion and they then struggle when the rubber hits the road - especially against LP players and the like. Good luck. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 11:33pm
Thanks for the advice so far, video added!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2011 at 11:52pm
i like the second vid too! i think you have better footwork than me actually =(. the one thing i see in the second vid is that you have trouble with impacting. you're still using h3 on the fh right?  it needs that quick snap in order for you to get the speed and spin required. i saw that you tried to get into a looping rally with steven and you missed a few times. that snap and impacting ability will make it easier for you for sure =)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 12:15am
Thanks Tuan.

The past few lessons with Steven have been focused on getting enough impact - "snap" to drive the ball forward and add that needed spin.  I was focusing a lot more on how I was using my legs during this lessons plus a few other components.  Although I had about 6 lessons in the past 3 weeks, I only played about 10 hours total including the lessons.  Right now, I'm trying to put all of that together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quakerroatmeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 12:25am
Just wondering how long have you been playing for? Putting everything together is so hard as it comes together very slow. Footwork I find is one of the hardest thing when training.

Edited by quakerroatmeal - 01/03/2011 at 12:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 12:29am
Playing for a bit over 2 years.

Part 3 uploaded!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 1:04am
I am surprized no one noticed how you dip your right shoulder so low. Good for brush loops but I think that is part of the reason you have a problem with body rotation. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 1:36am
bh is really nice in the 3rd vid!!

if you want to focus on the legs alone (probably did this already b/c steven knows more than me) try to just do counters while you get the legs moving. but i think your footwork is already there. which would then mean that this is the part where you're trying to put everything together. maybe try slowing down the pace so you can focus on getting it right? i dunno really....steven knows best =)

either way, you're doing a great job and definitely keep it up. you should be able to beat me in about 3-6 months if you progress really fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 2:14am
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

bh is really nice in the 3rd vid!!if you want to focus on the legs alone (probably did this already b/c steven knows more than me) try to just do counters while you get the legs moving. but i think your footwork is already there. which would then mean that this is the part where you're trying to put everything together. maybe try slowing down the pace so you can focus on getting it right? i dunno really....steven knows best =)either way, you're doing a great job and definitely keep it up. you should be able to beat me in about 3-6 months if you progress really fast.

thanks again. I'm still not satisfied with my bh yet. I just want to be enough stable so ppl won't pick on it during match.

There are a lot of things Steven has told me to do plus all the other tips you've guys have given me. I will need some time to put things together step by step. The only problem is that Steven is moving away to Rockville so I am pretty much left with no coach for now. A coach as good as him will be very hard to come by. Luckily he can still try to teach me stuff through webcamming and from vids I will constantly be recording. Although school has started, I am thinking about doing a few roadtrips back to LA for a few more lessons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 2:26am
The only problem is that Steven is moving away to Rockville so I am pretty much left with no coach for now. A coach as good as him will be very hard to come by.


I am sorry to hear your loss of a fine coach.    Disapprove

*If you are looking for new local coach/coaches, may I suggest:

-Cheng Yi Du for Chinese forehand.
-For backhand lessons I can't think of any other local coach better than Ben Johnson.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rodewan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 2:38am
where exactly do you play? your club looks awesome
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 3:26am
@roundrobin Yes, Jim is a possible coach but he charges a much higher price than Steven.  Steven is also a much more experienced coach who can speak english too.  I guess I can improve on my mandarin...  Where does Ben Johnson play?  Do you know any coaches that are located in the San Diego area that can coach Chinese forehand and charge a decent price?

@rodewan I play at Grace Lin TTC which is located in South El Monte.  paddleattack.com is their site.  Although it is not the biggest club, I feel it has the best environment for playing.  Steven and great playing environment plus the friendly people keep me from going anywhere else to play in LA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 3:27am
Originally posted by Hookshot Hookshot wrote:

I am surprized no one noticed how you dip your right shoulder so low. Good for brush loops but I think that is part of the reason you have a problem with body rotation. Smile
Actually, given that you have been playing for over 2 years, a bit of brushing wouldn't be a bad thing. Your current loops are really more like quasi-counterhits than loops: not much spin and little dip. Trying to get more spin on your loop could also help your to get more snap/speed through your shot. Your BH technique is looking good tho - just keep practicing and it will become very solid I suspect.


Edited by DDreamer - 01/03/2011 at 3:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 3:56am
If you watch the right shoulder, it is moving down, then up. Not forwards. I would slow everything down untill the stroke is better. You do not have to hit hard to learn loops. It is eaiser to spot things at a slower pace. Multiball is another option. Not fast multiball, hit one and the coach looks for things like stroke start and end position, feet position. body rotation. Make correction and then another ball. Repeat. When correct, then regular multiball. When that is working, then go to countering or looping blocks. If you don't make 10 or 20 in a row, you are going to fast.

This is the method I use for students. The reason for starting with one ball at a time is to give me the time to watch the students stroke. If I have to block the ball back, I can not see everything that is happening.  Once the stroke is correct, it is not hard to make 20 or more in a row.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/03/2011 at 7:49am
It looks like your arm is doing most of the work in your loop.  If you use more legs and hips the stroke will look a little more natural.

If I may suggest- when you loop, start your loop motion with your legs and hips, use your legs and hips to carry your arm towards the ball (at this point in the loop, the arm is relaxed and moves with the torso and shoulders); when the ball is in the strike zone use your forearm like you are going to yank a dumbbell towards your head, and don't force your arm to stop after you finish contact with the ball.

Your loop looks good, keep up the hard work.  It's great how you have good coach to work with!
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