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AndySmith View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/13/2015 at 12:21pm
Email from TeesSport, will likely be seen by many in the next few hours:

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Butterfly Announce New 3 Star 40+ Plastic Ball Made in Germany

Most of the feedback that we have received from our customers over the last year has been concern about the quality, performance, durability and cost of the 40+ plastic balls.  Good news is on the way.

 

Butterfly, the world famous manufacturer, have announced the launch of a new Butterfly plastic ball range manufactured in Germany.  Up to now all of the plastic balls have been manufactured in China – both the ones with and without a seam. 

 

The new Butterfly 3 Star 40+ is scheduled to be available next month.  It’s round, hard, durable, has a higher bounce and is at a cost which is much closer to the current celluloid Butterfly 3 Star.  Butterfly, who have exclusivity over all of the production of this particular ball, predict that it will quickly become the most popular ball worldwide.  Butterfly will be selling it everywhere, including both in Japan and China.  The quantities available should be sufficient to meet the demand.

 

This could be the answer that we have all been hoping for.

 

With Butterfly the new ball will be at three levels:

 

a)    The Butterfly 3 Star 40+ which has an introductory price of

 

Box of 3                  £3.99

Box of 12              £15.75

Box of 72              £95.00

b)    The Butterfly 40+ training ball with an introductory price

Box of 72 £34.99 (one size only)

c)    The Easy 40+ hobby ball targeted mainly at the recreational market with an introductory price of:

Box of 6                  £1.99

Box of 120           £39.50

 
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All Hail AndySmith, bearer of good news....LOL

Ok, i will buy some when its available....Thanks
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Weener balls are here to save us all lolz.

Doesn't sat if they are seamed or seamless though. Has anyone received their "easy ball" competition prize yet?
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It being exclusively a butterfly ball is bad news. Hopefully, sound business sense and an option to let the ball be used by others will prevail. Or we will be stuck with DHS forever...
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Tibhar is starting to sell a seamless ball.  Can the others be far behind?
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Prices seem cheaper than Nittaku 40+ Premium Made in Japan. But pricing doesnt make sense, shouldnt prices drop if you buy larger quantities.  Lets hope it can live up to our expecting standards.



Box of 3                  £3.99 = $6.18 U.S. dollars and around $2.06 per ball
Box of 12              £15.75 = $24.39 U.S. dollars and around $2.03 per ball
Box of 72              £95.00 = $147.14 U.S. dollars and around $2.04 per ball
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Nittaku premium are out of stock everywhere for months.....
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Originally posted by kakapo kakapo wrote:

Nittaku premium are out of stock everywhere for months.....

Kakapo, Nextlevel pointed out to me it available at ttnpp. I made a order last week, hope it gets here soon.
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Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

Prices seem cheaper than Nittaku 40+ Premium Made in Japan. But pricing doesnt make sense, shouldnt prices drop if you buy larger quantities.  Lets hope it can live up to our expecting standards.



Box of 3                  £3.99 = $6.18 U.S. dollars and around $2.06 per ball
Box of 12              £15.75 = $24.39 U.S. dollars and around $2.03 per ball
Box of 72              £95.00 = $147.14 U.S. dollars and around $2.04 per ball
It's cheaper in pounds, but the savings are progressively less the more you buy.
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On another note, in the latest(July, 2015) ITTF approved list, Joola has finally opted for the seamless ball by Palio/XSF.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

On another note, in the latest(July, 2015) ITTF approved list, Joola has finally opted for the seamless ball by Palio/XSF.


Seamless seems to be winning the battle. Is this the beginning of the end?
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It is a good thing.  DHS/DFish have monopolized the supplies of table tennis balls for so long.  Apart from low competitions, qualities have dropped tremendously the past several years yet prices have increased like three-fold.  With the seamless ball feud, they and ITTF have shot themselves in the foot and now it comes back to haunt them.

Edited by zeio - 07/13/2015 at 5:42pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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so is it seamed or seamless?????
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Proof will be when some of us get to try them.  They are seamed but may have a different material than the Chinese ones (although I do not know this for certain, it is an educated guess).

Again I am just guessing, it may well be that Btfly is not happy with the ones they have been selling so far.  The comment in their publicity statement about the higher bounce got my attention.  That is the biggest problem I have with Chinese seamed balls.
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The Weener balls are seamed, that is according to the ITTF document.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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GREAT BARGAIN OF CELLULOID...

We have now decided to go on with celluloid till some later day that plastic manufacturers stop ripping peoples out of money. Hell insane pricing set now for plastic, indeed.

Celluloid still available on market worldwide in plenty. Dirty-cheap selling price.

Our local sports Center have just purchased DF celluloid from eacheng, carton of 100, 0.20$ a piece. Great bargain anyway. Oooole. oole, oole, oole...

Edited by igorponger - 07/13/2015 at 7:11pm
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Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Proof will be when some of us get to try them.  They are seamed but may have a different material than the Chinese ones (although I do not know this for certain, it is an educated guess).

Again I am just guessing, it may well be that Btfly is not happy with the ones they have been selling so far.  The comment in their publicity statement about the higher bounce got my attention.  That is the biggest problem I have with Chinese seamed balls.

I'm sure their resellers and official agents are sick of hearing complaints from customers.  This kind of feedback must have an impact at the upper levels too - BTY seem more bothered about their image than most TT manufacturers.

I can't speak for all the local leagues here in the UK but I was incredibly relieved when mine decided to "recommend" seamless at our pre-season AGM and supply a dozen for each team FOC in an effort to get them started.  Maybe it's more hope than expectation, but if that's a trend then companies like Joola and Tibhar are going where the demand is.

Strange that Xiom have gone in the other direction - they had a seamless ball first, and now they've got a seamed one too.
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Not strange as long as the DHS ball dominates international competition. It's pretty dumb not to have both. Then when DHS gets shown up, we can reasonably end this madness.
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Not strange as long as the DHS ball dominates international competition. It's pretty dumb not to have both. Then when DHS gets shown up, we can reasonably end this madness.

Yeah, good point.  Replace "strange" with "unfortunate reality" I suppose.

I'm just glad that some of the distributors will be offering options now.  Gives me hope to think that when Joola sponsor an event (for example) they might offer a choice to the tournament directors, rather than getting a sinking feeling of "oh no, not a Joola gig".
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Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Not strange as long as the DHS ball dominates international competition. It's pretty dumb not to have both. Then when DHS gets shown up, we can reasonably end this madness.

Yeah, good point.  Replace "strange" with "unfortunate reality" I suppose.

I'm just glad that some of the distributors will be offering options now.  Gives me hope to think that when Joola sponsor an event (for example) they might offer a choice to the tournament directors, rather than getting a sinking feeling of "oh no, not a Joola gig".

Yep - that will force the Seamed Chinese balls to improve or will kill them entirely.

I think that with the Nittaku Premium and what I saw of the Yasaka ball, there is room for a seamed ball - it just needs to be a universal standard because no one wants a ball that is specific to a particular event.
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We just finished a league season here in the DC metro area with the XSF seamless ball:

1. I liked the bounce, nice and high.

2. The sound of the ball was quickly ignored, no one ever brought it up.

3. Durability overall was good, we did have some streaks when higher level (2200-2500) players got on a string of hitting the ball with the edge of their racket and breaking it, we lost 3 balls in 15 minutes one time.

4. The number one problem was roundness. These are 3 star balls, over 90% of them wobbled at least slightly when you spin them on a flat surface. Compared to the Nittaku Premiums they were just not as round. Most people were not bothered by this, but a few players were quite upset. We went through two boxes (12 balls) during the finals and didn't find a single round ball.

jfolsen

edit for spelling


Edited by jfolsen - 07/13/2015 at 7:51pm
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Betamax vs VHS. It seems the seamless ball is definitely starting to win out over the seamed ball.  I've been playing with the Joola and Butterfly seamed poly balls since the local tournaments have been using them, but recently I played a couple of matches with the XSF seamless ball and I now prefer the seamless. It definitely felt more like a celluloid ball. The BTY balls and other seamed poly balls really don't have the bounce that the seamless ones do. I would also think that if they can get the balls to be perfectly round then seamless would be better than poly. It's great news about the new BTY balls, but I really hope the seamless ones win over in the end.
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Butterfly 3 star celluloid balls are top notch...

I'm impressed that Butterfly aim to maintain their quality reputation. Of course they don't want to loose their market share either...

Can't wait to try...
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Quote

Butterfly Announce New 3 Star 40+ Plastic Ball Made in Germany

Most of the feedback that we have received from our customers over the last year has been concern about the quality, performance, durability and cost of the 40+ plastic balls.  Good news is on the way.

 

Butterfly, the world famous manufacturer, have announced the launch of a new Butterfly plastic ball range manufactured in Germany.  Up to now all of the plastic balls have been manufactured in China – both the ones with and without a seam. 

 

The new Butterfly 3 Star 40+ is scheduled to be available next month.  It’s round, hard, durable, has a higher bounce and is at a cost which is much closer to the current celluloid Butterfly 3 Star.  Butterfly, who have exclusivity over all of the production of this particular ball, predict that it will quickly become the most popular ball worldwide.  Butterfly will be selling it everywhere, including both in Japan and China.  The quantities available should be sufficient to meet the demand.

 

This could be the answer that we have all been hoping for.

 

With Butterfly the new ball will be at three levels:

 

a)    The Butterfly 3 Star 40+ which has an introductory price of

 

Box of 3                  £3.99

Box of 12              £15.75

Box of 72              £95.00

b)    The Butterfly 40+ training ball with an introductory price

Box of 72 £34.99 (one size only)

c)    The Easy 40+ hobby ball targeted mainly at the recreational market with an introductory price of:

Box of 6                  £1.99

Box of 120           £39.50


When evaluating the claim of exclusivity of this ball, keep in mind that they got the information about all balls being made in China so far wrong.

As for the roundness of the seamless balls, I suspect that the issue isn't roundness as much as it is balance.  My bet is that they wobble when spun due to uneven distribution of material.  Roll one slowly on a very flat surface (like glass or a polished granite) and you can see the ball veer toward the heavy spot.


Edited by wturber - 07/14/2015 at 11:13am
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just received some of the KingNik poly balls that Zeropong sells and took them to the club last night to let some of the players play with them. Right from the start everyone agreed they preferred them to the Butterfly seamed poly balls as they bounced higher and had better spin. They seem to be pretty round when I spin them on the table, but sometimes I do seem to see a slight wobble. I only noticed it a couple of times, but all in all they are much better than the seamed balls.  If the manufacturers can just get them to be perfectly round consistently then they are a great ball. I asked my practice partner who is over 2200 if he could tell the difference between the KingNik seamless and a celluloid and he said he wouldn't have even known it was a poly ball if I hadn't told him.

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Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

s for the roundness of the seamless balls, I suspect that the issue isn't roundness as much as it is balance.  My bet is that they wobble when spun due to uneven distribution of material.  Roll one slowly on a very flat surface (like glass or a polished granite) and you can see the ball veer toward the heavy spot.

That makes sense to me, because this would be much harder for their sorting machines to measure, whereas roundness is quite easy to detect and discard.
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Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

We just finished a league season here in the DC metro area with the XSF seamless ball:

1. I liked the bounce, nice and high.

2. The sound of the ball was quickly ignored, no one ever brought it up.

3. Durability overall was good, we did have some streaks when higher level (2200-2500) players got on a string of hitting the ball with the edge of their racket and breaking it, we lost 3 balls in 15 minutes one time.

4. The number one problem was roundness. These are 3 star balls, over 90% of them wobbled at least slightly when you spin them on a flat surface. Compared to the Nittaku Premiums they were just not as round. Most people were not bothered by this, but a few players were quite upset. We went through two boxes (12 balls) during the finals and didn't find a single round ball.

jfolsen

edit for spelling


I have not had this problem to anything like this extent -- 90% deviating from roundness has simply never happened to me with XSF balls -- but I will agree that the NP40+ are really high quality.  Their lack of general availability makes it a moot point more or less.
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Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

s for the roundness of the seamless balls, I suspect that the issue isn't roundness as much as it is balance.  My bet is that they wobble when spun due to uneven distribution of material.  Roll one slowly on a very flat surface (like glass or a polished granite) and you can see the ball veer toward the heavy spot.

That makes sense to me, because this would be much harder for their sorting machines to measure, whereas roundness is quite easy to detect and discard.


Just asking, not questioning...
Couldn't a 'roll standard' test be easily incorporated into the QC checks?
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Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

s for the roundness of the seamless balls, I suspect that the issue isn't roundness as much as it is balance.  My bet is that they wobble when spun due to uneven distribution of material.  Roll one slowly on a very flat surface (like glass or a polished granite) and you can see the ball veer toward the heavy spot.

That makes sense to me, because this would be much harder for their sorting machines to measure, whereas roundness is quite easy to detect and discard.


Just asking, not questioning...
Couldn't a 'roll standard' test be easily incorporated into the QC checks?

They have a veer test which is rolling a ball down an incline.  The degree of veer helps determine the star rating.  I just don't know how that will tend to affect the way an unbalanced seamless ball rolls. I don't know how sensitive the test is to this kind of imbalance.
Also, if the heavy spot is inline with the direction of roll, then there would be no veer.  If it is at right angles to it, the veer would be more significant.  
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It could easily be a balance issue rather than roundness. When spun on a table many of the XSF balls will wobble.

jfolsen
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