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Topic ClosedPushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 7:53am
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Thomasson Thomasson wrote:

Ur gonna teach your kid those words?

Calm down, like u said hes new to the forum, maybe its SiD?
Why so serious!?

I had a severe allergic reaction to smartass and break out into rage whenever I come into contact with it.
Ah yes, I have a same kind of allergic reaction to unsporty (unworthy?) opponents.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 9:31am
Oliver, there are exceptions to people that are hard workers and honestly work for every win they win.  I would believe that you fall under this category especially if those 2000 players are still wondering why the heck you keep beating them.

Jonan, you clearly have no knowledge of long pips cuz ur a stupid idiot that sees things in a way nobody does.

If long pips, sponge or no sponge was able to loop 5-7 feet from the table what the hell would we need inverted rubbers for. 

do you even know what spin your long pips will get after looping with them?  

You're clearly a fricking idiot that doesn;t know anything their talking about.  LONG PIPS CANNOT DO WHAT INVERTED DOES DUMBASS.  Say u chop with inverted off a underspin ball frmo ur opponent , then your ball will go back underspin (unless u don't even know how to chop).

IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin.

UR stupid jonan, please don;t say u play long pips because if u honestly do, it just further proves how stupid you are.

Do your homework of long pips, and then come talk to me


Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/21/2011 at 9:32am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 10:17am
The Internet: serious business. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:05am
I'm going to ask ya'll to be a bit more civil.

Namecalling does not further the discussion.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:32am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:



IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin.



Firstly, how do you 'chop' a backspin ball? I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:42am
Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:54am
I dunno... Usually when someone with LP casually pushes a backspin push it comes back with little or no spin or even slight top spin. If the push is short but they still have time to dig in and juice up the spin, like a chop, thats a different thing.

With inverted you can casually push back a push and that small jolt will be enough to cause backspin. With LP you have to be more deliberate to re-spin the ball, otherwise it will come back as no spin or slight top spin.



Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 01/21/2011 at 12:05pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:55am
LP in general is relatively immune to incoming spin, so chopping an incoming ball with a considerable amount of underspin will not send the ball into the net if executed correctly. The chop will counteract the original underspin just a bit, depending on the grip of the pips and the chopper's swing, but usually not enough to reverse it. The receiving end of the chop will see an incoming ball with topspin, the amount of which depends on many factors, but in this scenario, will have fewer rpms than the original backspun ball.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:56am
I suggest a "MYTT Grudge Match Tournament" and the winner will have bragging rights. LOLLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:08pm
did you just say that if u push underspin with long pips, that generates underspin with good technique?

please, please go do a bit of learning on long pips.  LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes.

this is the general rule of long pips (VERY GENERAL): If i give you topspin and you hit with long pips, it will come back with a underspin (how heavy the underspin depends on how heavy my topspin is)

If i give you underspin and you hit with longpips it will cmoe back as topspin (how heavy your topspin depends on how heavy my underspin was)

thats the VERY general rule.  i hope that clears up ppl's misunderstanding.

If u guys don't believe me, it's very simple.  throw a long pips sheet on, get sum1 to serve underspin to you and push back with the samem otion you would push with inverted.  U will be able to experience first hand what i'm talking about
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:10pm
Btw, when i say certain strokes i mean if you are a very advanced long pips player like oliver for example, you know certain strokes where the general spin reverse does not apply.  For example, When people smash with long pips regardless of incoming spin, the ball will result in the ball kind of dropping a little (and people don't haev a term for this so they just say a bit of underspin)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:13pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink


 
It all depends on the rubber that they are using.. There are still rubbers out there that give you decent reversal (like DTecS, Pogo, Palio CK531a etc.)
It also depends on timing.. If you push off the bounce, you will get more reversal than if you push at or behind the table.. The earlier you make contact and the shorter the dwell time, the more reversal you'll get..


Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 12:19pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

did you just say that if u push underspin with long pips, that generates underspin with good technique?

please, please go do a bit of learning on long pips.  LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes.

this is the general rule of long pips (VERY GENERAL): If i give you topspin and you hit with long pips, it will come back with a underspin (how heavy the underspin depends on how heavy my topspin is)

If i give you underspin and you hit with longpips it will cmoe back as topspin (how heavy your topspin depends on how heavy my underspin was)

thats the VERY general rule.  i hope that clears up ppl's misunderstanding.

If u guys don't believe me, it's very simple.  throw a long pips sheet on, get sum1 to serve underspin to you and push back with the samem otion you would push with inverted.  U will be able to experience first hand what i'm talking about


I realize you're new here so I'll muster some patience. But...

You really need to work on your tone. You kinda come across as an arrogant ass. Many of us have played against LPs and subsequently know what we're talking about. Jonan does indeed play with LPs on his backhand and has for quite a while, so he's not "stupid" regarding them, nor is it necessary that you call him names. I don't think he's an extremely high-level player, which you claim to be (and I strongly doubt simply based on your tone), but he's no newbie either.

In any case, you are just plain wrong. You said, "IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin." I've experienced it firsthand as I'm sure others have. Pushing with LPs can result in backspin. It may not always, which can be a function of both technique and the type of LPs being used (as Pushblocker mentioned). But to make the generalized statement that you did, imply it applies all the time, and suggest people are stupid if they doubt it, is both utterly incorrect and totally rude.

So please stick around and continue to post if you have something valuable to add. But in the meantime, work on manifesting a greater degree of civility. Wink



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink


 
It all depends on the rubber that they are using.. There are still rubbers out there that give you decent reversal (like DTecS, Pogo, Palio CK531a etc.)
It also depends on timing.. If you push off the bounce, you will get more reversal than if you push at or behind the table.. The earlier you make contact and the shorter the dwell time, the more reversal you'll get..

Thank you.  Now the ppl that'll keep telling me that you won't reverse the ball will finally understand sigh
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

did you just say that if u push underspin with long pips, that generates underspin with good technique?

please, please go do a bit of learning on long pips.  LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes.

this is the general rule of long pips (VERY GENERAL): If i give you topspin and you hit with long pips, it will come back with a underspin (how heavy the underspin depends on how heavy my topspin is)

If i give you underspin and you hit with longpips it will cmoe back as topspin (how heavy your topspin depends on how heavy my underspin was)

thats the VERY general rule.  i hope that clears up ppl's misunderstanding.

If u guys don't believe me, it's very simple.  throw a long pips sheet on, get sum1 to serve underspin to you and push back with the samem otion you would push with inverted.  U will be able to experience first hand what i'm talking about


I realize you're new here so I'll muster some patience. But...

You really need to work on your tone. You kinda come across as an arrogant ass. Many of us have played against LPs and subsequently know what we're talking about. Jonan does indeed play with LPs on his backhand and has for quite a while, so he's not "stupid" regarding them, nor is it necessary that you call him names. I don't think he's an extremely high-level player, which you claim to be (and I strongly doubt simply based on your tone), but he's no newbie either.

In any case, you are just plain wrong. You said, "IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin." I've experienced it firsthand as I'm sure others have. Pushing with LPs can result in backspin. It may not always, which can be a function of both technique and the type of LPs being used (as Pushblocker mentioned). But to make the generalized statement that you did, imply it applies all the time, and suggest people are stupid if they doubt it, is both utterly incorrect and totally rude.

So please stick around and continue to post if you have something valuable to add. But in the meantime, work on manifesting a greater degree of civility. Wink




anton, like i said before.  I don't claim im a high lvl player by any means but just sum1 who understands long pips enough to beat them.

And i arleady said in my post that the general rule is the spin will reverse.  I ALSO said that if u are a high lvl long pips player and know more than just the basic strokes of LP, that rule might not apply.

When i use an unforgiving tone, i expect people to reply to me with an unforgiving tone as well.  However, if you're going to claim i made statements, read my post properly first

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:37pm
ZJKandMLfan: GOOD. you have learnt the basic about LPs.

Now you need to work on different types of LPs, and different players, and resultant possibilities in spin.... as your advanced lesson. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:40pm
I was only stating the basics for the people that kept saying that long pips will not reverse the spin by any means.

Thanks for your "lesson" though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

ZJKandMLfan: GOOD. you have learnt the basic about LPs.

Now you need to work on different types of LPs, and different players, and resultant possibilities in spin.... as your advanced lesson. Smile
 
I think he needs to learn manners first and foremost. Social Engineering 101.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.

THIS RIGHT HERE, has been what i've been saying for the last 8 posts.  But i have no idea nobody believes this theory.  

Thank you so much zingyDNA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:



anton, like i said before.  I don't claim im a high lvl player by any means but just sum1 who understands long pips enough to beat them.

And i arleady said in my post that the general rule is the spin will reverse.  I ALSO said that if u are a high lvl long pips player and know more than just the basic strokes of LP, that rule might not apply.

When i use an unforgiving tone, i expect people to reply to me with an unforgiving tone as well.  However, if you're going to claim i made statements, read my post properly first



I didn't "claim you made statements", I quoted you... literally. I cut and pasted your comment into my post. It's not a claim, it's a demonstration.

This isn't Youtube where we all come to trash talk and instigate arguments into vicious crescendos of name-calling. If that is your conversational strategy and you refuse to alter it while communicating on this forum, then go somewhere else.

And you did claim to be higher level, stating that you beat a 2300 rated player, which is definitely high enough to be considered "high level" in most places. Or are we to believe it was a fluke? (That's rhetorical, btw.)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.
 
It's difficult to generalize because of so many factors:
 
type and length of the pips, hardness and thickness of the sponge. If OX, then that's another can of worms.Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:


... I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin.


+1

I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. Wink




If you push heavy backspin to them, there's no way they can return a backspin to you. The most they can do is rub the spin off and give you a dead ball. And that requires a LPs with certain level of friction.

THIS RIGHT HERE, has been what i've been saying for the last 8 posts.  But i have no idea nobody believes this theory.  

Thank you so much zingyDNA


Okay... sorry guys, your strongly worded arguments have trumped my personal experience. It simply must be that when I play my LP friends at least once a week for the last 3 months a quantum wormhole is opening up causing the pips to defy physics. Ermm


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:50pm
Okay anton, theres clearly some miscommunication so let me fix this for you.

If you read my posts, (which i'm sure you did) I already said that the general rule of LP is thati t will reverse the spin.  Let me go copy and paste that:

"LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes."

Okay, so we have that cleared no?

Next, i already said that a much loewr rated player can be beat high lvled long pips player if they understand LP.  Ill copy and paste that for you as well:

"I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME." (Page 10)

It is no different in my case.  Ill clear this up right now, I am not saying im better than any1 here. What i'm trying to say is, i understand the theory of long pips so there is a possible chance of upset.

anton, what's your usatt rating?  I'm sure that by all means you have beaten players that are 200-300 rating aboev you before.  It might not mean fluke but rather you play particularly well against that style or they weren't playing their game while you definitely were.

This thread is not a matter of who is better and who's not.  It's just the concept of understanding LP

And one last thing, Although my tone might be rude i don't mean disrespect to any1.  If you look up in my posts, i didn't even start the "name calling" until Jonan started.  I said his post was stupid and he was completely clueless.  I dont think that falls under name calling.

AFTER, he posted his second post with name calling, i lit off.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Okay anton, theres clearly some miscommunication so let me fix this for you.

If you read my posts, (which i'm sure you did) I already said that the general rule of LP is thati t will reverse the spin.  Let me go copy and paste that:

"LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes."

Okay, so we have that cleared no?

Next, i already said that a much loewr rated player can be beat high lvled long pips player if they understand LP.  Ill copy and paste that for you as well:

"I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME." (Page 10)

It is no different in my case.  Ill clear this up right now, I am not saying im better than any1 here. What i'm trying to say is, i understand the theory of long pips so there is a possible chance of upset.

anton, what's your usatt rating?  I'm sure that by all means you have beaten players that are 200-300 rating aboev you before.  It might not mean fluke but rather you play particularly well against that style or they weren't playing their game while you definitely were.

This thread is not a matter of who is better and who's not.  It's just the concept of understanding LP

And one last thing, Although my tone might be rude i don't mean disrespect to any1.  If you look up in my posts, i didn't even start the "name calling" until Jonan started.  I said his post was stupid and he was completely clueless.  I dont think that falls under name calling.

AFTER, he posted his second post with name calling, i lit off



You are correct--there is some miscommunication. However, I would argue that it is stemming from the confusion in your own mind, as demonstrated in this post.

First, you say, "LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes." This implies that you're open to the possibility that it is GENERAL and that there are exceptions. Yet when someone points out an exception, you call their comment stupid and suggest they're clueless. Yes, that is confusing and I see how it could lead to "miscommunication".

Second, are you really suggesting that you don't understand how calling someone's statement "stupid" and saying they're "clueless" about something is insulting? I will concede that it's not specifically "name-calling" but you're utterly missing the point. The issue isn't specifically name-calling, it's being rude, which you don't seem to understand.

Third, beating someone "
200-300 rating aboev" you would still make you 2000-2100, which is still a higher level player. So you are suggesting that you're a higher level player, which I will still doubt because very few people who are really good at... anything become so reactive and rude when discussing their area of expertise. Granted, there are exceptions and perhaps you're one of them.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:07pm
Anton, How could i possibly think that the exceptions r stupid?  I pointed out examples by myself.  The only things i called stupid was the ppl that kept saying that it will DEFINITELY not reverse the spin.  That is one thing i definitely called stupid.

Im not the only one confused here (i dont even see how im confused but u think so) because u clearly don't interpret my posts well.

I said the general rule is reverse except for some situations and strokes and i even point out the situations.

Also, I already said, my tone might make me really rude but i'm not earnestly insulting any1. 

anywayss, theres no point argueing about that because ur gonna say im rude and im just gonna keep saying i don't really mean that.

Also, im just putting an examle of 200-300.  Thats just a general rating.  this rating could go up to 5-600.  Im sure we've all seen upsets where say 2200 player lsoes to a 1600 player because the 1600 player could have been underrated or he was completely on his game, confidant playing agaisnt the higher rated player's style and the higher rated player was not playing well.

and quite honestly, I think i would qualify as 2000 usatt rating and i don';t think thats HIGH AT ALL.

I won u-1800 division 2 years ago wen i thought i was completely garbage in pensylvania.  Im much, mnuch better now and i think 2000 would be my lvl.

Now all of u r gonna go ahead and reply to my posts sayin im being cocky becuz i think im 2000.

2000 in my mind is absolutely nothing.  Players that are qualified as "good" shud be a minimal of 2200.  

Improving players always strive for high goals.  If i'm ever fortunate enough to get to 2200, im gonna think 2200 is garbage and 2400 is what i wanna be.  That applies for every1 im sure.

If everybody is offended by my posts then ill say I'M SORRY
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:10pm
Now I know who's clueless. Wink
Photino /TBS Black Tag: D05 (FH)/Attack 8 pips(BH)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:


Thank you.  Now the ppl that'll keep telling me that you won't reverse the ball will finally understand sigh
 
There are just a vast selection of long pips on the market and there are long pips that almost act like short pips and will generate chop when pushing but most blockers at the table use low friction pips which will usually produce dead balls or topspin against underspin.. However, like I said, it depends on the material used and blockers USUALLY use the lowest friction pips available.. I only know one blocker who uses a very grippy long pips rubbers (Phantom 007) and that would be John-Mark Wetzler.. All the other top long pips blockers use low friciton pips..
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Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 1:13pm
I completely agree PB.  Some people may have misinterpreted my posts buti 've been saying that the whole time.

If you look at the abundance of LP players playing tournaments today almost nobody uses very grippy long pips rubbers.

and i know John Wetzler.  I played against him in erie once as a practice game after he finished playing the rest of my team.  He did extremely well and was a VERY good player.  He beat my buddy who is a provincial player down in Canada and im sure that his style would probably beat me at that time too.  Im just hoping that i would fare better playing him now although i don't exactly remember how he plays.

Just remember he was great defensively
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