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Critique my game #3

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dingyibvs View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/09/2011 at 11:22pm

So, it’s been a few months since my last video post asking for critique.  Thanks to everyone once again for giving me some very good advice!

Previous threads:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42471&title=critique-my-game

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43991&title=critique-my-game-2

I’ve been able to make some improvements in technique, mostly in the following areas:

1)      Backhand – My BH loops have become more powerful, and I can launch them more naturally now without thinking.  Still far from being fluid, but I’ve made some improvements in both power and control.

2)      Forehand – I ended up completely revamping my FH motion, especially against backspins.  Right now, I think my new motion is still a bit stiff and limited to the arms(gonna have to work on these), but it’s helped a ton regarding consistency and placement.

3)      Footwork – I’ve made some improvements in this area, though it’s been coming on slow.  At least now I can step around to hit FH shots much more often, resulting in me attempting less BH shots.  I still get lazy too often and stop moving though.

Grip - Almost forgot to mention, I also made a fairly big change in my grip.  I used to have very different grips for the FH and BH.  On FH, I used to have the index finger ride almost vertically up the rubber, and I held the handle fairly low.  On BH, I used to hold just the bevel, very loosely, with the thumb and the index finger so my racket could rotate quite a bit in my hand.  Now, I have the same grip(standard shallow grip, with the thumb on the bevel and not the rubber) for both FH and BH.

For comparison’s sake, the following two videos are against the same opponent I played in the last two threads.  At the time of the first thread, I beat the guy once in basically never.  At the time of the second thread, I beat him maybe once in 10-15 tries.  As of now, thanks in no small part to everyone’s help, I’ve finally risen above him!  These days, I basically never lose to him as long as I try and I’m not trying out some drastically new equipment/technique.  Anyhow, here are the two matches I played against him last night(2nd match's audio sync is a bit off):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-3fgM3GCVQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWKI9keKFlQ


Any suggestion is welcome, thanks!



Edited by dingyibvs - 11/09/2011 at 11:43pm
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Acuda S3 Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2011 at 11:40pm
Nothing wrong with your forehand loop so you probably want to stop using it so much and concentrate on getting an over the table bh flip instead of a push and a hit the backhand a bit more to get that up to the same level. I see a couple times you got boxed in on the backhand trying to hit a forehand and a good player would mess you up doing that. But yeah doing well so far, just try and get some more variation and more shots
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:07am
Your game is looking good! Pretty much what bluebucket said would be good to work on.  Also, you could work on more aggressive pushes and definitely more serves.  But, I would love to see you play some other people like some standard two wing loopers that are close to your level. You probably play the Jpen guy alot I would assume. Jpen players can have some wicked serves.  Your forehand looks much better now and you have good backhand motion.  I appreciate your vids, thanks again for posting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ikaros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:07am
you are doing so much better than before. when you use your forehand loop. get back a little more and use your waist instead of your arm alone. that would give you more power and spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stefashka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:28am
Looks good. Yeah, some flicks from FH and BH in the table play would be great. Also, I think you need to improve recovery after FH loops - you seem to stay with your hand above your head for too long and this lessens time preparing for the next shot. With faster opponents, slow recovery can cause more trouble. Maybe it's connected with what you call "stiffness" in your loop - try to relax your hand right after the ball leaves the racket. Also, try to get the ball a bit more in front of your body - it''ll improve quality of your shots. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blossomoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:33am
i tried to stealthedit my post to include links to xbox live keys but instead got pwnd by the moderators.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 1:00am
So many 清天白日满地红. Where's your club located?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote esnift Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 2:35am
You're game is looking good. The only feedback I would give is that when you hit a forehand loop, your momentum seems to pause at the end of your stroke like you don't expect the ball to come back (which it didn't most of the time Smile ). Once you start playing opponents that can return a loop, you might be in a precarious situation if the end-of-stroke-pause becomes a habit. Just bring it back to ready position after a big loop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 3:12pm
Thanks folks!  Yea the slow return to ready position is quite a problem for me, gives me a lot of trouble when the opponent returns the ball back very quickly, I'll definitely have to correct that.  I think it'll help if I loosen up a bit.  I have some BH flicks, but my FH flicks are in the early development phase still, I only used it once in the matches I posted, I think.  This particular opponent, Shek, plays me pretty often obviously so he knows that very well.  If you'll notice, he almost never serves to my BH side, because he knows that long or short, it'll be attacked(he did it so rarely it sometimes caught me off guard in the two matches I posted).  If he can serve it short to my FH though, he knows I can only push, which is why he almost always serves short(or at least try to) to my FH.  He actually used to serve almost exclusively to my BH, the man adapts quickly!

I think this'll be the last vid I post of me against this guy, I'll try to record myself against better, more aggressive players next time.  My club is in Miami, seems to be run by mostly people from Hong Kong?  Those flags do suggest Taiwan though!
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kashuken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 3:39pm
@dingyibvs you have very good consistent loop but I noticed that your elbow ends up too high. IMHO this is (partially) because you are looping more upward instead of more forward. See if you can get a feeling of throwing your hand (as if you are drawing a circle) instead of elbow for your forehand loops. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 7:32pm
Is your equipment on your signature the one you used to play this game? I think your bh is faster then your fh. Also you have two red rubbers?!?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 8:39pm
You are definetly improving and members have given you good advice, I would suggest you add in some more variety in your serves which all tend to go long, it may have suited this game as your opponent didn't attack too many giving you a good chance of looping third ball, 
but against better players that may attack your long serve it won't be as effective, so some two bounce serves and using the angles better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 8:51pm
Yea, I'm still afraid of missing, so I kind of finish upward more than forward, I'm gonna start trying to finish my motion a bit more forward now.

Yes, I'm playing with the setup in my sig, and yes the moon is quite a bit quicker, less effort is needed to extract speed out of it, which is why I'm keeping it on my BH.  On full speed strikes the moon offers little speed advantage but has less spin and dwell.  As an aside on equipment, I think the F3/T88-I combo is extremely good for someone learning a FH stroke, as it's very soft(the blade is ayous-basswood-carbokev-kiri construction) and pretty flexible.  Amazing control near and off the table, and great power if I can get a full swing, which unfortunately, I didn't execute a single one of in my 2 videos.  After I learn how to extract power better on my own, I'll switch to a harder, 5-ply wood blade my cousin recommended me(Hurricane H-WN, KLH/P500/OC structure), so I have some crispness in the closer to the table attacks.  He also recommended me using H3P 39 on FH and Donic F1 on BH, so I might switch rubbers to that too.

As for the 2 red rubbers, I didn't get a sheet of black Moon 38 until yesterday, so I had to play with 2 red rubbers that day.

I do have a bit trouble of keeping spinny services short, but against this opponent I intentionally served long with little spin to counter his LP returns.
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 11:24pm
Two things:
   First, and more important, use antiperspirant of some kind; this is gross, and I wouldn't wana play near you.
   Second, your FH, even though pretty good with respect to speed and % on the table, is coming a bit late. I keep getting the feeling that the ball is about to pass you and you definitely missed it this time, but somehow you manage to swing just on time and make it. I feel you shouldn't wait so much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote delfam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2011 at 11:52pm
kinda mechanical and doesn't seem you have a good feel for the game in general, but I guess that'll come in time. Not very light on your feet.

You do need a backhand loop though. You just push it everytime and in times when you have the advantage you have to go on the attack which you can't do it seems on your backhand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2011 at 12:42am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Two things:
   First, and more important, use antiperspirant of some kind; this is gross, and I wouldn't wana play near you.
   Second, your FH, even though pretty good with respect to speed and % on the table, is coming a bit late. I keep getting the feeling that the ball is about to pass you and you definitely missed it this time, but somehow you manage to swing just on time and make it. I feel you shouldn't wait so much.

lol, I wish antiperspirants were the answer!  I bring like 5 headbands to the club each time, and I run through them all in 4 hours LOL  The trick is really to wear a ping pong specific shirt, as they're much more breathable and sweat doesn't show.

I agree I hit too late, I think it ties into my entire FH mechanics.  The slow return to ready position forces me to take the ball late, for one.  The upward motion also favors taking the ball late, while a more forward motion would favor taking the ball a bit early.  I don't now if it's because of my upward looping motion that I take the ball late, or it's because I'm not ready in time that I favor an upward motion.  Maybe it's just a vicious cycle, but I'm gonna work on both at the same time to make sure that's taken care of.


Delfam:

I think the observation that I don't have a great feel for the ball is very right...my motions just don't look fluid in general.  Hopefully you're right that it'll come with time.  I've only been playing for a year really(in my pre-teen years I played some at school with friends so I wasn't quite starting at 0), and I've been adjusting my technique and unfortunately also equipment quite often, so it's been tough to be comfortable around the table.

As for my BH, I actually used to attack almost everything that comes that way.  You can see that especially well in the 2nd and 3rd video in the 2nd "Critique my game" thread.  I don't play matches to win, per se, I play them for practice purposes.  During the time of my 2nd "Critique" thread, I was focusing on improving my BH.  Right now, I'm focusing on footwork and getting comfortable with my revamped FH.
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Acuda S3 Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rpbnakata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2011 at 4:44am
First thing I noticed was the same esnift did: your recovering time after forehanding is too long. You should stroke and be ready in position again right after that. And your legs+hips are slightly stiff. Do the same ZJK does: bounce togheter with the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote delfam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2011 at 7:19am
ok, saw the backhand in that video. It's pretty good but you need to feel like your pushing outwards with the bh and then flick the wrist. Looks like your using your arm and swinging to much, going in like a circular motion. Should me more of a slight arc than a looping motion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalamchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2011 at 7:26am
haven't a tighter serve will help your game tremendously. Contact point is too high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2011 at 9:59am
the rafa nadal top spin dingy just works to your partner.
 
it is not good to play tennis instead of table tennis.
 
maybe it is fun but try your partner and you to concentrate a little more to be more competitive.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2012 at 8:09pm
Played in my first tournament today!  As luck would have it, Shek happened to be in my group.  It felt good beating him in a real tournament :D

Since it was my first tournament, I couldn't advance past the group stage, but I did beat the everyone in my group, including the highest rated guy in my category(U-1900), an 1800+ guy.  I felt like I was too nervous and played too stiff, and I had way too much trouble than I should have against the 1800 guy and Shek(handled the 3rd guy, some 1450 player, pretty easily).  Tomorrow I'll play in the U-2300, where I'll no doubt get destroyed, but there'll be no pressure so I can just play loose at least!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2012 at 10:50pm
Congratulations on the group win; taking down a US1800+ player in your first tournament is tremendous!

Good luck in the U2300; pull off a big upset win!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2012 at 11:17pm
Congrats.  So you are now at least 1800!  Lose tomorrow and you get placed somewhere in between your lowest loss and a highest win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2012 at 11:27pm
did your opponent in the video have pips (LP?) in the backhand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2012 at 11:36pm
lol are you using 2 red rubbers??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2012 at 12:24am
Thanks for the congrats!  I was having some doubts when I lost the first set of the first match and was down 8-10 in the second.  I really struggled getting my mindset right, as I was super uptight in the beginning, then I tried to think about other things to calm my nerves and I became completely distracted.  I'd say I ended up playing at around the same level as in the video, even though I've improved considerably since then.

My opponent does play with LP's, Grass D. Tecs, on his BH.  Haven't played against him or any other LP player since the club in the video shut down a few weeks ago, almost forgot how to play it today!  I was indeed playing with 2 red rubbers in the video, since I was searching for rubbers to match my new blade(back then, the Sanwei F3) and the two that worked the best together were both red.  I'm using the setup in my sig now, just got the T64 last week :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2012 at 1:59am
Hi,

Great game and congratulations on your success so far.

If I may be so bold, I would make a couple of comments. 


1) In terms of recovery, I think that what might help you is that if you make your recovery part of your full swing pattern. Notice here how Ma Long in practice is recovering with his full body after the stroke and the racket recovery plane is different from the forward hitting plane. The whole body including is hands comes back to the ready position as part of the overall pattern. 


So in terms of practice, it might help you to make sure that when you recover, you are recovering into the neutral position using a different plane of recovery. However, the body is still turning. You would not be just dropping the blade. Maintaining unity of motion is critical to creating the smooth flow that you are seeking. 

2) This may be controversial but I believe that your swing is too long for the modern game. I think it would help you if you can shorten the swing but still maintaining your great feel and spin by accelerating into the ball using a complete release of your full body after compressing it during the preparation stage. Again, Zhang Jike and Ma Long videos is helpful. 


Both loop strokes have a more forward with tremendous acceleration (super human speed), and recoveries are effortlessly quick probably because relax the body very quickly after contact. Of course, there are many players that have longer swings and if you can recover quickly enough, it doesn't really matter. But I've been taught that the modern game does suggest shorter strokes. 

Hope this helps somewhat. And thanks for sharing some great videos!


Edited by richrf - 01/08/2012 at 2:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2012 at 2:04am
You have a very good loop, but as the others said you need to recover faster

What I learned to do is think of the recovery as part of the stroke (thanks to whoever told me that-I can't quite remember)

And it does work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2012 at 2:57am
Zhang Jike has a pretty compact motion, but Ma Long has a pretty long stroke when he's not up against the table like in the video.  In contrast, I think the modern game actually favors a longer stroke, but our definitions of modern might be different since I'm still pretty young and back-in-the-days to me is the 90's.

I've definitely worked on my recovery considerably the past couple of months.  I haven't really gotten to the more forward motion part though.  If you've read some of my other posts, you'd know that I prefer to work on one or two things at a time, and mostly I've been working on putting all parts of my game together fluidly since this video.  I'm still in the process of integrating my BH strokes into my game, including transitioning between FH and BH.  I do use more strokes that have a lot of forward motion right now, akin to the one I used in my earlier videos, but I don't have anything really in between right now.

I hadn't really worked on my FH looping vs. topspin in quite a while until very recently, because I identified the opening loop as the most important aspect at my level.  I mean, how often do you see low level players being able to warm-up like a champ and then get into the game and struggle to land a single loop?  Heck, take the 1450 player I played today, I swear the guy looped like he was 2000 during warmups, and then the game started and he couldn't loop worth shiz.  I think he only managed one sucessful opening loop the whole match, and that was a weak one that I drove right back.  Even now, I try to work on my opening loop from both wings whenever I can.

Recently though, I've been playing at a club with many 2000+ level players, and they don't give weak blocks back when I land an opening loop, so I've had a lot of practice with quicker recovery and counter-looping(still not good enough to really use in games unless the incoming loops are weak).  I'll have to record a new one soon to judge my progress.


Edited by dingyibvs - 01/08/2012 at 2:59am
Blade: DHS DM-1000 CPEN
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Acuda S3 Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote strikewzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2012 at 6:40pm
at the same time during backswing, might as well hop into a better position by the standard 2 step to create optimal arm span, so you don't get squeezed playing with forearm only

and someone with your power output might consider using a much slower rubber against club players

if you hit an outright winners... you miss out the practice, which you will need against pros someday

i think you have what it takes to be pro... just need good coach man
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