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Pushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR) |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:35pm | ||
anton, like i said before. I don't claim im a high lvl player by any means but just sum1 who understands long pips enough to beat them. And i arleady said in my post that the general rule is the spin will reverse. I ALSO said that if u are a high lvl long pips player and know more than just the basic strokes of LP, that rule might not apply. When i use an unforgiving tone, i expect people to reply to me with an unforgiving tone as well. However, if you're going to claim i made statements, read my post properly first |
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:32pm | ||
Thank you. Now the ppl that'll keep telling me that you won't reverse the ball will finally understand sigh
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:31pm | ||
I realize you're new here so I'll muster some patience. But... You really need to work on your tone. You kinda come across as an arrogant ass. Many of us have played against LPs and subsequently know what we're talking about. Jonan does indeed play with LPs on his backhand and has for quite a while, so he's not "stupid" regarding them, nor is it necessary that you call him names. I don't think he's an extremely high-level player, which you claim to be (and I strongly doubt simply based on your tone), but he's no newbie either. In any case, you are just plain wrong. You said, "IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin." I've experienced it firsthand as I'm sure others have. Pushing with LPs can result in backspin. It may not always, which can be a function of both technique and the type of LPs being used (as Pushblocker mentioned). But to make the generalized statement that you did, imply it applies all the time, and suggest people are stupid if they doubt it, is both utterly incorrect and totally rude. So please stick around and continue to post if you have something valuable to add. But in the meantime, work on manifesting a greater degree of civility. |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:17pm | ||
It all depends on the rubber that they are using.. There are still rubbers out there that give you decent reversal (like DTecS, Pogo, Palio CK531a etc.)
It also depends on timing.. If you push off the bounce, you will get more reversal than if you push at or behind the table.. The earlier you make contact and the shorter the dwell time, the more reversal you'll get.. Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 12:19pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:13pm | ||
Guys,
Lay down your swords and check this out: http://www.gregsttpages.com/gttp/index.php/Long-Pimples/long-pimples-for-beginners.html |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:10pm | ||
Btw, when i say certain strokes i mean if you are a very advanced long pips player like oliver for example, you know certain strokes where the general spin reverse does not apply. For example, When people smash with long pips regardless of incoming spin, the ball will result in the ball kind of dropping a little (and people don't haev a term for this so they just say a bit of underspin)
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 12:08pm | ||
did you just say that if u push underspin with long pips, that generates underspin with good technique?
please, please go do a bit of learning on long pips. LONG PIPS's spin depends on the ball you're receiving AND GENERALLY reverses the spin except in certain strokes. this is the general rule of long pips (VERY GENERAL): If i give you topspin and you hit with long pips, it will come back with a underspin (how heavy the underspin depends on how heavy my topspin is) If i give you underspin and you hit with longpips it will cmoe back as topspin (how heavy your topspin depends on how heavy my underspin was) thats the VERY general rule. i hope that clears up ppl's misunderstanding. If u guys don't believe me, it's very simple. throw a long pips sheet on, get sum1 to serve underspin to you and push back with the samem otion you would push with inverted. U will be able to experience first hand what i'm talking about
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Online Points: 4946 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:56am | ||
I suggest a "MYTT Grudge Match Tournament" and the winner will have bragging rights.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:55am | ||
LP in general is relatively immune to incoming spin, so chopping an incoming ball with a considerable amount of underspin will not send the ball into the net if executed correctly. The chop will counteract the original underspin just a bit, depending on the grip of the pips and the chopper's swing, but usually not enough to reverse it. The receiving end of the chop will see an incoming ball with topspin, the amount of which depends on many factors, but in this scenario, will have fewer rpms than the original backspun ball.
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LOOPMEISTER
Platinum Member Joined: 11/13/2008 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 2486 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:54am | ||
I dunno... Usually when someone with LP casually pushes a backspin push it comes back with little or no spin or even slight top spin. If the push is short but they still have time to dig in and juice up the spin, like a chop, thats a different thing.
With inverted you can casually push back a push and that small jolt will be enough to cause backspin. With LP you have to be more deliberate to re-spin the ball, otherwise it will come back as no spin or slight top spin. Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 01/21/2011 at 12:05pm |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:42am | ||
+1 I play with a couple people who use LPs on their backhand. When they push a backspin ball, it comes back with backspin. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone. |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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PanPong
Beginner Joined: 01/01/2011 Location: Nippon Status: Offline Points: 61 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:32am | ||
Firstly, how do you 'chop' a backspin ball? I suppose you mean push, in which case with proper technique it should still be backspin. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 11:05am | ||
I'm going to ask ya'll to be a bit more civil.
Namecalling does not further the discussion. Silly Radagast, Trolls are for Hobbits. |
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myfault
Beginner Joined: 10/14/2010 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 49 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 10:17am | ||
The Internet: serious business.
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Primorac OFF-
FH - Yasaka Rakza7 soft 2.5 BH - Sriver EL 2.1 |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 9:31am | ||
Oliver, there are exceptions to people that are hard workers and honestly work for every win they win. I would believe that you fall under this category especially if those 2000 players are still wondering why the heck you keep beating them.
Jonan, you clearly have no knowledge of long pips cuz ur a stupid idiot that sees things in a way nobody does. If long pips, sponge or no sponge was able to loop 5-7 feet from the table what the hell would we need inverted rubbers for. do you even know what spin your long pips will get after looping with them? You're clearly a fricking idiot that doesn;t know anything their talking about. LONG PIPS CANNOT DO WHAT INVERTED DOES DUMBASS. Say u chop with inverted off a underspin ball frmo ur opponent , then your ball will go back underspin (unless u don't even know how to chop). IF U CHOP WITH LONG PIPS OFF A UNDERSPIN BALL, ur shot will go back close to nospin and maybe a LITTLE bit of topspin. UR stupid jonan, please don;t say u play long pips because if u honestly do, it just further proves how stupid you are. Do your homework of long pips, and then come talk to me
Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/21/2011 at 9:32am |
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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Thomasson
Gold Member Joined: 03/30/2010 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 7:53am | ||
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Blade: TB ALC
FH: Tenergy05 2.1 BH: Tenergy64 1.7 |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 7:22am | ||
Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 10:46am |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 4:59am | ||
I had a severe allergic reaction to smartass and break out into rage whenever I come into contact with it.
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Thomasson
Gold Member Joined: 03/30/2010 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 4:54am | ||
Ur gonna teach your kid those words? Calm down, like u said hes new to the forum, maybe its SiD?Why so serious!?
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Blade: TB ALC
FH: Tenergy05 2.1 BH: Tenergy64 1.7 |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 4:51am | ||
Hey sh*tface, I've been playing with longpips for almost 2 years, I have several rackets with ox and with sponged long pips and I know the difference asshole. I didn't say they could do it as well, I said they can do it, no rubber does everything as well as another rubber, even if they are both inverted, but you can still loop, hit, chop, block with a rubber no matter if its inverted, short or long pips, to different degrees. And my example is Jimmy Kimple beating Joey Cochran in the 2008 Lindenwood open, Jimmy was 2021 before the tournament and Joey was 2395. Jimmy plays with a Donic Dotec Carbokev with Omega 3 FH and ox longpips backhand, twiddles, and stands about 5 feet from the table and loops with both from either side, he plays every week at my club. You'd have a problem when facing a super spiny inverted your first time too. Anyone can show tons of examples of people beating other people who are rated higher than them no matter what equipment they use.
Edited by Jonan - 01/21/2011 at 4:57am |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 3:17am | ||
You understand LPs so well that you beat most LP players at or higher than your rating? I find it highly unlikely... Prove it. Talk is not just cheap. It's free.
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Thomasson
Gold Member Joined: 03/30/2010 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 3:03am | ||
I sometimes beat people with LP!!!
Well I mostly beat them since like a year
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Blade: TB ALC
FH: Tenergy05 2.1 BH: Tenergy64 1.7 |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:57am | ||
Jonan, with your post you clearly lack any knowledge of long pips at all LMFAO.
First of all, I didn't say i was a high lvl player but just a player that understood the theory of long pips well enough to win against long pips players. please refer to my earlier posts about much lower rated players upsetting high rated LP players. Second, Long pips being able to doing everything inverted can is the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life. So if i was to serve heavy underspin with my inverted rubber, could the number 1 LP player in the world do that? IF SO, y don't I see Joo See Hyuk or chen weixing do that. Im sure LP generating HEAVY BACKSPIN by itself would be a great advantage, no? And LP IS CLEARLY strength in some cases and a weakness in some cases. Please ask Oliver yourself, A PERSON (NO MATTER WHAT RATING YOU ARE) will have DEFINITE trouble playing against a good LP player IF IT IS YOUR FIRST TIME ever playing against long pips. And if you wanna make the argument of how long pips can not POSSIBLY be a weakness, please bring up stats to show it because i clearly have stats that show long pips can be a weakness. I can show you SO MANY MATCHES were 1900 long pips players lose to 1700 inverted players according to CTTA (Canadian Table Tennis Association) ratings AND same with USATT rating history. Please read the rest of my posts before you post something stupid. And if you';re about to tell me that a 2100 rated player at your club OUTLOOPED 2400 rated double winged loopers with his long pips than either those players ARE NOT 2400 or you're lying and it's not even long pips. Before we even get into an argument, I;m just gonna ask u a very basic question. Do you know whats the difference between long pips with sponge and long pips without sponge. If you cannot even answer such a simple question then im not gonna bother argueing with you because based on your post, I think you talk like you know the first thing about LP when you are honestly completely clueless
Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/21/2011 at 3:02am |
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:46am | ||
Pics or it didn't happen. It's easy to come on and claim in your 2nd post to be a high level player, but for all we know your just an alter-account of some pips hater summed up to give credibility to his arguments with conjured up examples. Also, LP isn't a weakness or a strength, there is no magic secret that all long pip players know that if found out by outsiders they are helpless and unable to adapt...you can use longpips in every way you can use inverted, the only question is if the person knows how, same with inverted. You don't beat them just because they have long pips, you beat them because of superior strategy executed by superior skill, otherwise they would just adapt at that level. There's a 2100 rated player at my club who uses OX long pips and he just loops with them away from the table twiddling them on either side, has outlooped 2400 rated double winged loopers before with his long pips. You can use long pips in a dizzying amount of ways, the only question is if you have the ability.
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:25am | ||
I can agree to the fact that Oliver is an extremely hard worker, constantly improving his tactics and mental toughness.
However, I still stand by my opinion that if people who lose to long pips honestly go home, think about why they lose, try and understand the theory of long pips, and execute an effective game plan, LP is not hard to deal with. And i did eventually beat those people that i play with. I played against a roughly (putting back into u.s rating prolly 2300) indian player who had a VERY, VERY strong forehand plus a very good backhand LP and push much like Oliver's. Right from the get-go, i knew i cud beat this guy although he was much higher rated than me. I studied his game before hand and i knew that despite he had great lp defense, he was most likely to use his LP for placement shots only and blast me with his FH. the whole game was controlled by me because all i did was isolate his long pips. I did not let him use his forehand whatsoever (of course he had some forehand shots) but i limited his opportunities to use fh as much as possible by explotiong his LP. Like i said, LP is a weakness rather than a strength ONCE YOU understand how it works and you haev good experience + a good strategy against it. Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/21/2011 at 2:26am |
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
Posted: 01/20/2011 at 11:56pm | ||
Well skill is a given, strategy you can't execute is just a pipedream.
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Posted: 01/20/2011 at 3:34pm | ||
It's not that simple. Do you eventually beat all the people that you play often? |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
Posted: 01/20/2011 at 3:28pm | ||
Well, as a pushblocker you always have to find new ways to win. If I'd play the same strategy over and over again, I'd get killed.. It's like radar and a radar gun.. Opponents figure out how to play against 1 strategy and then it's up to me to find another strategy that works.. Finding ways to win is very important.. I did improve my game but it's mostly a improvement in my head rather than my strokes.. I do work a lot on strategies and playing patterns and I do work hard on my serve.
I think that a key to being successful with my style is to be able to adapt to players who adapt to my game.. I have to be quick in realizing what they are trying to do and then come up with a counter-measure.. While in videos, it might all look the same, there are slight variatin that are hard to catch.. For example, I can throw off opponents by varying the speed and lengths of my blocks/pushes.. It looks fairly unimpressive on video as it only looks like suddenly, without reason, the opponent misses.. However, it's my goal to make the opponent mess and I'm looking for ways to do that. As you know, my style is very liminted to what I can do, so I only have limited amount of things that I can do but using the right shot at the right time helps..
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 01/20/2011 at 3:17pm | ||
If people that constantly play your style but still lose, it could result in two simple reasons.
a) ur improving ur game while they r'nt b) their not doing their hw |
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
Posted: 01/20/2011 at 2:57pm | ||
IF the attacking defender can attack with the pips or is good at twiddling and attacking from the backhand side, he will be dangerous for pushblockers. If he can't attack too well from the backhand side, I would put every ball wide to his backhand and exploit that weakness. I do have problems against players who can attack with long pips or anti but there are VERY few that can do that consistently.. Never ran into someone at a tournament that could..
A good pushblocker will find the weak spot of the opponent and exploit it.. If there is no weak spot, it doesn't look good for the pushblocker.. Edited by Pushblocker - 01/20/2011 at 2:59pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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