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alternative for korbel/primorac |
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king_pong
Silver Member Joined: 06/29/2010 Location: Minneapolis Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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Posted: 11/02/2021 at 1:36pm |
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I keep reading about this blade. My buddy recently got one. It appears that they've thickened it slightly for the new ball. Read somewhere recently on an asian sight (it was translated, I remember that) that it was designed by a joint effort between Banda & Nittaku when Waldner was still sponsored by them. Then when he shortly thereafter left them for Donic, the design followed him and became the blade we know today. While for Nittaku's efforts, the design became the Acoustic
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Stiga Infinity VPS (Master): fh/bh - Nittaku Hammond CR max
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Fedex78
Member Joined: 10/13/2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Thanks stiltt and doraemon.
Really interesting the BBC blades! I might order the Hinoki ghost. As for the adidas challenge, the analysis is spot on, they are nearly the same. While i'm still collecting info, I've decided to try applying grip tape on Korbel. Anyway for us big hands players is really difficult to find the right handle...
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Viscaria FL
Omega VII Pro 2.0 Black FH Omega VII Euro 2.0 Red BH |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 985 |
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Try a BBC Hinoki Ghost, it has a dream softish feel. The spin is high and the blocking game gets vastly improved. Even at 82gr they are still super solid with no vibrations, it's a really good design and possibly Charlie's masterpiece.
Pay attention to Rocketman's reviews. He is a friend of Charlie's but he really thinks what he writes and I agree with it, he just likes the blade very much and he supports his friend too. Here is a live test from a forum member (the looping stud): I recommend you buy one. If you do not like it, somebody will snatch it here in the FS section at a slight discount 😂 --- edit: look at that! BBC Ghost Hinoki ST w. 2x Gewo EL Pro 48 - $90
Edited by stiltt - 10/23/2021 at 3:13pm |
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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Butterfly discontinued Hadraw series. So if you try and like Hadraw, once your blade is broken, you have to find something new again. Innerforce ALC.s, has arylate carbon near the core. It is thinner, closer to Primorac thickness, and it has spruce as the outer layer (not limba, like Korbel), so it feels softer and rather flexy. I think there is one blade which is very close to Korbel technically (not in term of feeling): Korbel vs. Adidas Challenge Force (it is now ITC Challenge Force): Composition: limba-limba-ayous-limba-limba vs. limba-limba-ayous-limba-limba Head size: 158x152 vs. 157x150 Thickness: 5.9 mm vs 6.0 mm Handle: slim handle vs. normal handle Stiffness: moderate vs. moderate (but you still feel that it is a bit stiffer than Korbel) Feeling: Korbel feeling vs. closer to Primorac feeling (minus the flexiness of Primorac). The other contender is Donic Waldner senso v1 (yellow handle), but it is in between Korbel and Primorac. And also it has hollow handle (kind of Stiga's WRB). It is also a limba-limba-ayous-limba-limba blade.
Edited by doraemon - 10/21/2021 at 7:58pm |
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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
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Fedex78
Member Joined: 10/13/2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I suspected that... I was studying the Butterfly Blade Comparison Chart, and near the Korbel there are to consider those blades: - Diode V (but too big and heavy blade, designed for defenders) - Innerforce Layer ALC.s - Hadraw VK The Hadraw VK is, Butterfly marketing here, a modern Korbel, but it has koto instead of limba as last layer. Near the Primorac, but with less vibration, Hadraw SK could be considered. Did anyone have experience with the blades listed above? You guys are really helpful anyway
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Viscaria FL
Omega VII Pro 2.0 Black FH Omega VII Euro 2.0 Red BH |
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Fedex78
Member Joined: 10/13/2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Thanks for your suggestion, I might give it a try but this is my last option, I'd prefer not to use the overgrip/grip tape, it dampens the feel and alter the blade balance.
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Viscaria FL
Omega VII Pro 2.0 Black FH Omega VII Euro 2.0 Red BH |
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achoomai
Silver Member Joined: 11/09/2004 Status: Offline Points: 730 |
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Try GEWO ZOOM PRO , it is as good as the previous version of PRIMORAC.
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My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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No.. I have tried Xiom Offensive S and Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. They are constructed similarly to Korbel, but a bit thicker. So in term of feeling, they don't really give the Korbel feel. I don't know whether it is real or just psychological, but I always think that they can't replace my original Korbel.
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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
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Jpenjunkie
Beginner Joined: 11/25/2019 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Have you tried just adding some grip tape or one of these to your Korbel handle? Seems like an easier fix to add handle girth rather than change your blade:
US $1.64 31% Off | 1 pair overgrip for table tennis racket handle tape heat-shrinkable ping pong set bat grips sweatband Accessories
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Fedex78
Member Joined: 10/13/2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I have the same problem of OP:
I love my Korbel FL (Made in Japan, 2020 production), particularly as for feel and short game but the handle is too thin and I switched to Primorac (2018 production, made in japan, so stiff and fast). Primorac is nearly as good as Korbel BUT: - it doesnt have the feel in the short game of the Korbel - it vibrates a lot causing me soreness on wrist and elbow, a problem that i don't have when using not vibrating blades such as Korbel, SK7, Viscaria, Dynaryz Freeze and so on Could tibhar stratus powergood give me Korbel feel? I tried the new Maze Advance, great handle but it's a brick, too fast and hard. Should I consider some Stiga blade as alternative? |
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Viscaria FL
Omega VII Pro 2.0 Black FH Omega VII Euro 2.0 Red BH |
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ThijsG
Beginner Joined: 01/06/2014 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I had the Korbel with FL handle and bought the ST handle. Better but still quite small... I didn't use it and started to use the Primorac after that. Bummer... |
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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I think Korbel is a blade that you can use your whole life. As a matter of fact, few high ranked players are still using Korbel. The problem with Korbel is that its handle is too slim.
Donic Waldner Senso Carbon, is a very popular blade, it is also used by many high ranked players. Even Waldner himself used it (as claimed by many fellow members here). The FL and ST handles are comfortable (better than Korbel). Although it is a carbon blade, but overall it still retains the all wood feeling, due to the type of carbon used, and the position of the carbon within the layers. The problem is that it has hollow handle, thus can be head heavy if you are using thick heavy rubbers. Waldner Senso Carbon has black handle and is different than Waldner Senso v1 which has yellow handle and has no carbon. Timo Boll Spirit is a good blade, but I don't use it much because it has kind of "muted" feeling, unlike Waldner Senso Carbon. Never try EPox Offensive Donic Persson Powerplay is 7-ply blade but looks like and feels like 5-ply blade (it has "foil" inside). It is a good and balanced blade. But somehow I like Korbel better. If you want something slower than Korbel but about the same speed as Primorac Off-, then I suggest Tibhar Samsonov Alpha SGS (has foam in the handle) or the new Tibhar Samsonov Alpha (blue color solid handle). It is a very versatile blade for allround attacker. Do not get the old Samsonov Alpha (grey handle) because the head dimension is too small. |
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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
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ThijsG
Beginner Joined: 01/06/2014 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Much appreciated.
And that’s what I think is so strange. I played the Primorac and then the Korbel with the same rubbers. For me, the Korbel feels faster (not a huge difference but still). But the lower weight is really better. Little less controllable than the Primorac, little more speed. Korbel is rated OFF Primorac OFF- Butterfly blade chart in the catalogue claims the Primorac to be faster but then again I can find most blade charts online say the opposite about that. Probably not the best place to have reliable information, but before joining this forum, I got most rubber/blade information from tabletennisdb.com I asked the Korbel replacement question to a big store (who does all brands and they suggested Andro Temper Tech OFF-? my blade list: primorac, korbel, donic waldner senso carbon (love this one but afraid to use it in competition), timo boll spirit, donic epox offensiv, donic persson powerplay |
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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OK, the reason I specified thickness was because:
You want to replace your current blade (Primorac Off-), and it has limba - limba - ayous - limba - limba composition. There are lots of other blades with the same composition, so I gave you the thickness of each blade (it's impossible for me to list each layer's thickness) so that at least you have a better picture, which blade (same composition) that might be similar to your current blade. As the thickness increases, the blade is logically stiffer. Regarding the speed of the blade, yes, thicker blade is supposed to be faster as well, but it is not always like that, because the weight of the blade plays important factor too. For example, if you have 90 grams Primorac Off- but you buy 76 grams Korbel (European made, as stated long time ago by fellow member here), then your Korbel might be slower than your Primorac, although it is thicker. Edited by doraemon - 12/15/2015 at 2:46am |
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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
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ThijsG
Beginner Joined: 01/06/2014 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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noob question: more thickness = faster & less suitable for spinny topspin if talking about the same material? The thickness of the individual layers themselves could be different (thicker center layer and thinner outer layers <---> vice versa) so if this is the case, the total thickness is maybe not the best citeria? enlighten me |
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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OK, Butterfly has the following limba - limba - ayous - limba - limba blades:
Primorac Off- --> thickness = 5.5 - 5.6 mm Primorac EX --> thickness = 5.7 - 5.8 mm Korbel ---> thickness = 5.9 - 6.0 mm Other brands with the same composition: DONIC: Appelgren Allplay --> thickness = 5.5 - 5.6 mm Waldner Senso v1 --> thickness = 5.8 mm ADIDAS: Force Challenge --> 6.0 mm JOOLA: K-5 --> 5.8 mm TIBHAR: Stratus Power Wood --> 6.1 - 6.2 mm XIOM: Allround S --> ???? Offensive S ---> ????? If you want slightly different composition (limba - ayous - ayous - ayous - limba), then you can choose: Donic Persson Powerallround (6.0 mm) Stiga Allround Evolution (6.0 mm) Tibhar Samsonov Premium Contact (~6.0 mm) Yasaka Extra and Extra 3D have anegre - limba - ayous - limba - anegre. Thickness = 5.9 - 6.0 mm (newer version) |
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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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He was originally asking for something slightly slower. Both good blades. I've still got an Allround S at the back of my cupboard of dreams. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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I prefer the Offensive S as Korbel sub to the Allround S. The Offensive S is an OFF- blade as well.
Edited by NextLevel - 12/14/2015 at 9:36am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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The Waldner Senso Carbon is the carbon one. The Waldner Senso is the...you get the idea. Another vote for the Stratus Powerwood. Also, the Xiom Allround S is somewhere in between the Primorac and Korbel, and has a nice handle.
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ThijsG
Beginner Joined: 01/06/2014 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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isn't the Waldner senso a carbon blade? will be difficult for pushes, no? I had a persson powerplay but wasn't happy with it but heard good comments on the persson powerplay senso V1. would it be such a big difference... |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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Try adidas challenge force.
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Tabmini
Super Member Joined: 10/15/2013 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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Yasaka Extra 3d is another choice.
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My feedback :
mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77680&PID=959859 |
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king_pong
Silver Member Joined: 06/29/2010 Location: Minneapolis Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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Donic Waldner Senso V1 & V2 has the same wood plies and is supposed to be in same class as Korbel. If it's too fast, then maybe the Donic Persson Powerallround could be up your alley.
Edited by king_pong - 12/14/2015 at 3:22am |
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Stiga Infinity VPS (Master): fh/bh - Nittaku Hammond CR max
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1527 |
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Adidas Challenge Force - Fantastic blade with great balance
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adishorul
Super Member Joined: 08/19/2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 368 |
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You should try primorac EX is a japanese primorac but a bit thicker 5.7 mm compared with original japanese primorac 5.5 mm. Primorac ex is right beetween korbel and old primorac stiffer and softer more speed.
Edited by adishorul - 12/12/2015 at 2:52am |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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I was just going to suggest this. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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Tibhar Stratus Powerwood.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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garwor
Silver Member Joined: 06/02/2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 730 |
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Where could I buy flexy korbel with thin handle?
Btw, I've played for years with primoracs and korbels. Now I cant find flexy korbel and I play with galaxy w6 (it should be same like yasaka extra), not same feeling (harder and no dampening effect and slightly springier, speed is between) but good for looping play like with these two btty blades. |
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JoeB
Super Member Joined: 07/30/2015 Location: usa kentucky Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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I would concur with Sevin that the OSP virtuoso is an amazing off- blade for control. I feel so in control of the ball speed and touch. By getting the rubber right for you, you can make this blade be whatever speed you want outside of off+. Very solid and finished well.
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Joe B BBC Hinoki/carbon
BBC Hinoki |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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If you want to treat yourself to the best similar blades you can buy, buy a OSP Virtuoso OFF- or OSP Virtuoso+.
Nittaku Acoustic is slightly different (it has Kiri core instead of Ayous) so it is bouncier. |
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Trade feedback:
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