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having trouble looping! |
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oliverpink
Member Joined: 02/12/2011 Location: Ilford Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: 02/12/2011 at 11:11am |
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Hi everyone,
im using DHS hurricane king blade with DHS G888 on both sides. im a attacking driving player but want to loop more and having trouble. I can however loop with a lighter bat that has neos sound rubbers, any advice on what should i change(the rubbers or the blade)??????? |
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MindTrip
Super Member Joined: 02/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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It sounds like you're better at looping with softer rubbers. I'd change the rubber and see how it goes.
Looping with hard tacky rubbers requires a level of finesse that many of us can not attain. Softer rubbers suit the rest of us. |
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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3 Andro R42 |
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oliverpink
Member Joined: 02/12/2011 Location: Ilford Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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thanks, nothing to do with the weight then?
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Work on strokes, not equipment.
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Speedstick
Super Member Joined: 10/28/2010 Location: K.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 342 |
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+1 .. this advice works for me as well |
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JOOLA Stellwag; Xiom Sigma Euro/Stiga Almana Sound ST
BUTTERFLY Red Kim Taek Soo; XIOM Omega IV Lord, Grant what You command, and command what You will. -ST.AUGUSTINE |
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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Amen to this. Equipment will only give you so much of an advantage (and not much of one). Make sure you are focusing on drilling, getting the right technique down and just playing a lot. This is a repetitious sport that requires a lot of practice. Do you know any experienced players that can watch you and give you advice? Or you could make a video of yourself and post it on here for people to analyze and critique for your own benefit. Also in regard to softer rubbers switching to those only make your game worse if you are trying to learn and develop a loop. Soft rubbers are really good for hitting the ball really hard with some control but when it comes to variation in spin and such you'll learn softer rubbers aren't going to be that good. Medium to hard rubbers will be the equipment to look at and just focus on your skills more than the equipment. |
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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I also moved this topic into the coaching section
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TheRobot99
Silver Member Joined: 10/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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I could use some help looping. On both wings too. Can someone give an overview of what should be happening on either loop, please?
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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bull_harrier
Platinum Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2436 |
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So what exactly are you asking here? Let me ask you this, what are you struggling with when trying to perform your loops? |
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TheRobot99
Silver Member Joined: 10/21/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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I was asking for a description of what your body should be doing as you take a forehand or backhand loop or counterloop. Usually I struggle with not using proper form on a lot of shots I miss. |
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Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias
Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
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Phot0n
Super Member Joined: 09/17/2010 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Here are some rules I try to follow when looping:
1) Get into position quickly, be grounded. Uber important. Need to predict ball trajectory. 2) Start your swing with your paddle by your knee. 3) Always watch the ball, even to the last second before you swing and hit it. Stay on target! 4) Hit the ball around hip-level, even if that feels uncomfortably low. 5) Concentrate on hitting the ball with the flattest paddle angle, even if it has back-spin, you'll naturally adjust during your swing to be more vertical to compensate. 6) Finish near your opposite shoulder or head (depending on lift), follow through is important even though it slows you down. To me, the first three is not just loops but any table tennis hit. |
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Palio TC6 | Globe 999T FH & BH Palio TCT | Hadou FH, HK1997 BH Galaxy T-4 | 729 Focus-II FH & BH |
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oliverpink
Member Joined: 02/12/2011 Location: Ilford Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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If people read what i said at first, i can loop but not with my own bat!?!
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Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Get a lighter bat with Neos sound rubbers?
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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I would bet that I can loop with your blade with little problem. I am sure the many on this forum can also. The problem must be your stroke and timing. I find the hardest part when looping close to the table is timing. Others have pointed out the problem with estimating the ball trajectory and having the perfect timing to brush the ball. My suggestion is to practice, practice, practice. Find someone that wants to practice serving long back spins. You loop the balls back. This is how I started except I practiced against a Newgy. At first I looped the balls back without enough speed and spin and the third ball would give me troubles when playing real people. Now looping longs back spin serves is something I do often. As much as I have practiced I still miss a ball when it takes a sudden unexpected bounce.
What kind?
The weight of the bat shouldn't have that much effect for just a few strokes. If the weight really bother's you then perhaps your stroke isn't smooth. I know that was my problem a year ago because I wasn't getting back into position quickly enough to be ready for the next ball. This comes with practice. A good coach will probably speed things up a bit. Even a session or two may help a lot if your concentrate on loops. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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You can stick it out and learn to loop with that gear.
or you can switch gear to loop easier. In either case there will be tradeoffs. The question comes down to how much time and effort you have to devote and what you want to focus on. Switching gear will only make some things easier and some things more difficult. After years of pushing and pick hitting, I don't enjoy practice pushing, so I chose a forehand rubber that is easy to push with, but requires effort to smash with (in part because I'd rather practice smashing than pushing). |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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Switching gear is not the answer. What oliverpink has is more than good enough for looping.
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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I dunno, a hurricane king with older, hard tacky rubbers on both sides isn't exactly an easy setup to use for looping, especially if you are trying to loop euro style, it just doesnt work the same way.
I just think it's pretty darn hypocritical for all of us to insist that switching equipment is wrong and isn't the answer...cause you know...we all do it constantly.
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dragon kid
Premier Member Joined: 07/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 2947 |
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First of all, G888 and Neos are really different. One is tacky slow rubber, the other is grippy medium speed. It reqires different technique. I use tacky rubbers on FH, i can loop with grippy rubbers but I will play like cr@#..
HK with G888 (max thickness i presume) both sides is a bit on a heavy side. This will hinder your movement and your recovery. HK is a good blade, you can do a bit of everything with it.. So my advice is either you decide to move to Neos or stick with the G888 but try to change the BH rubber to something lighter.. If you pick the latter, you need to be patience, when you switch gear you will need an adjustment period. How long is that period? That depends on yourself.. |
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'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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How exactly are you supposed to loop with a tacky medium to hard Chinese rubber vs a grippy soft to medium European or Japanese rubber?
I've looped with 729 Super FX, Palio CJ8000 Two Wing Loop, Sriver, Roundell, and Desto F3. Yes, some rubbers are faster, have more throw, and generate more spin than others, but except for finding the appropriate swing angle for a particular rubber, everything else about my stroke stays the same: I shift my weight onto my right leg while turning my upper torso to bring the paddle back. I then push off of my right leg while rotating my upper torso to bring the arm forward. I contact the ball during the elbow snap, swinging the paddle on edge, and end in the traditional salute position. |
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dragon kid
Premier Member Joined: 07/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 2947 |
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I think that topic is already discussed in the Chionese vs Euro loop thread...
And the rubber you mentioned is not a pure Chinese hard tacky like Hurricanes, or Skylines. PAlio CJ8000 is only mildly tacky, sponge is relatively soft. I am not sure which 729 super FX version you use, if it is the new version you are talking about, has a very soft sponge like euro rubbers, and not nearly as tacky as the classic 729 FX.. Edited by dragon kid - 02/13/2011 at 2:22am |
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'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Dragon,
It's the classic 729 Super FX. At least I think it is. It's this one here:http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=r-f-729fx. Does it sound like I have the Chinese loop or European loop? I loop like this guy here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AlTgHPERT4. He's a Chinese instructor, so I guess I have the Chinese loop. In which case, my point is my "Chinese" loop does not stop working when using European or Japanese rubbers. I'll have to find someone with a Hurricane rubber to test it out. |
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dragon kid
Premier Member Joined: 07/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 2947 |
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That does look like the classic. There are the blue sponge and orange sponge version with the blue sponge a bit softer, livelier and springy. The orange sponge is as hard as commercial Hurricanes. if you can loop with that, than your loop must be quite powerful.. 729 FX classic is a great rubber
The thing is I so used to using hard sponge, hard topsheet rubber. Of course I can loop with european rubbers (I can loop with Hexer on my other side of the blade), but my loops will not be as good, spin, speed and placement wise.. That video is a classic.. there are a few of them, showing different strokes like pushing, looping, etc.. I understand the guy is some kind of professor in sport or something like that... |
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'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Last time I checked, the guy was the president/dean/principal, one of those, of the Beijing Athletic University.
@OP, maybe the video can help you. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Sorry, my main point is that soft, grippy tensors (like acuda s3, donic f3, andro plasma 380, joola energy) are stupidly easy to loop with (and you can use any variation of loop technique, it doesn't have to be textbook, or even good) and rubbers like classic H3, G888 or 729 Super FX require more exacting technique and greater effort, but can produce significant power (and much greater spin VARIATION) when you develop a compatible stroke.
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toortool
Member Joined: 09/18/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I too love my HK... genuine . I think it's cheaper to try other rubbers than replace a blade that suits your style/game.
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teach me tt
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Icontek,
You've almost convinced me to go back to 729 Super FX, if it can consistently force me to swing with perfect technique. I don't like it, though, because it requires so much maintenance during play! Every 30 minutes I have to wipe it clean of the waxy powder from the balls or it completely loses its grip. For some reason, my rubbers are also wearing very fast; too fast for my play frequency, which is about 5 hours per week. There are some spots on them that are completely non-tacky and non-grippy. Slippery bald spots they are! I had the rubbers for both FH and BH, on a Yasaka Extra. Many have commented that this setup is slow and also not ideal for looping. I really have no opinion on that, because as I've said, I loop the same way with nearly identical results with the different blades and rubbers that I've tried, though I have not had the chance to try blades or rubbers that are super fast or super slow. Do you have any blade recommendations? How 'bout the Primorac? Thanks. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Chinese rubber + breath + sweat + wipe = clean. Or just keep a damp sponge at the table :)
What rubbers are you using? I have seen this with some Gambler, LKT, YinHe and 729 rubbers. Genuine DHS topsheets seem to be more immune (assuming ingame cleaning as above)
Yasaka Extra is the best pure looping blade I have ever owned. The 15 year old model I have plays like a more controlled Avalox BT550 and loops well with any rubber I've tried on it (H3/Mark V, Mendo, Acuda S3, Gambler Shadow, etc)... It would be a bit slow with 729 Super FX, but nothing you couldn't make up for with big swings. And they would land on the table, to boot. |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Regarding early wear, it's my 729 Super FX rubbers, especially the black one. Paired with my YE, the setup produces an almost hollow sound on contact. |
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gatorling
Super Member Joined: 06/09/2010 Location: Florida, USA Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Ph0ton has the loop technique described pretty accurately. That type of loop should produce a slow spinny loop. You know that you're doing it right when the first bounce is closer to the net and kicks off very hard.
To add to the technique , right before the loop I squat down a bit and when I perform the looping action I thrust up with my legs at the same time I make the loop action with my arm. To start off with you want the motion to be slower and concentrate on generating a crap ton of spin. But yes, like others said. All rubbers will have pros and cons, you need to decide which route you'll go down. For me, I've tried both hard rubbers (Cream Transcend, MRS) and soft rubbers (Dawei Inspirit, Quattro and Srivers) and I prefer the soft rubbers by far. It's a lot easier to produce a lot of spin and it's a lot easier to loop. Pushing becomes quite a bit harder though. I've used Quattro UL for about 6 months now, before that I used Inspirits for about a year. |
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