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Some games between me and Robin |
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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Bold and well said. I'm terrible with names, don't remember the uk lad's.
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Tinykin_2
Silver Member Joined: 01/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 540 |
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What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament.
About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.
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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
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tdragon
Platinum Member Joined: 01/26/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2060 |
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Edited by tdragon - 07/25/2011 at 7:19pm |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I don't know one way or the other who would win. I'd probably bet on Seemiller because he competes more frequently (I think) and is more fit. Also, he's from the U.S. :^) If we backed the clock up to 2008 or earlier, I'd be even more inclined to bet on Seemiller. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't rate Wiggy around 2400. As for ratings, any actual rating should be considered as +/- 50 points - at a minimum. For players who play often enough to have fairly stable ratings numbers, being within that 100 point range means essentially being the same level. Style match-ups and how much each player is on his game is what will decide the match. When the gap spreads to between 100-200 points, you can start betting money. You'll lose from time to time, but you'll win a lot more. Past 200, you can predict the outcome with even greater confidence. After 300 points you are in the better than 90% chance of predicting the outcome range. But even at these more extreme ratings gaps, I think style match-ups loom large and have a huge impact on outcomes. I saw two nearly 400 point upsets last weekend in best of five matches. Danny Seemiller has lost to a player rated below 2300 twice in the last two years. It's a rare event, but it happens. Edited by wturber - 07/25/2011 at 9:24pm |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
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well said
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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Tinykin_2
Silver Member Joined: 01/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 540 |
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Two things. Seemiller would beat you if he seriously prepared for a tournament. He's just too good a player despite his age. The ratings doesn't take that into account. This is a guy who was about the same level as Alan Cooke at his best with similar type of results. In fact I've seen him beat Desmond Douglas twice. At the same time you both would have similar ratings +/- 50. The second para was me trying to put a USA 2300 player into a ETTA ranking context. Jay, saying that Seemiller lost to 2300 players is not unusual and says very little. Tell me about the players he lost to. Where are they now? How old were they? If they were Seemiller's age it means one thing. If they were upcoming sharp, trained juniors, it's another. Seemiller must be pushing 60. Was he prepared or was he just playing for fun? It's all about context. Rating is just a small part, yet US forumers make it the biggest part. Have you seen Waldner's record? You wouldn't believe the low rating of some of the players he lost to, even at his peak. That's why I said that you have to look at tournaments where both players have prepared for. And look at the players themselves. Ratings is just one part. Even in Wiggy's case, his rating/ranking does not take account of the vast majority of his matches. Same for most in Europe.
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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Tinykin, you have to take into account age and the fact that the game advances, I recently beat John Hilton, Now I don't for a minute believe that it was for any other reason than the fact that he's 65 yrs old, Its the same with Danny Seemillar, I think he was quoted because of how he plays NOW, not 25 yrs ago, when he would be in the top 3 in USA.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Was he left handed? sounds like Mike Levene, played him many times, when he was in UK he was ranked around 180.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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If APW46 only uses 1.9 on BH, then I better stay off the MAX . APW46 - if you can share the reason for using 1.9 on the BH, it would be great, as I see that you have a very strong BH, and often play away from the table, I would think 2.1 would be better for you. (I am not questioning your choice of rubber, just trying to understand it for my own benefit). |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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1.9 is the normal thickness of Tenergy to use on the BH, either that or 1.7 for most Europeans, they are much more sensible when it comes to sponge than Americans are.
You want to be able to get the ball on the blade at your full power soooooo many players cant do that with max sponge. Tenergy makes a distinctive sound when it's at it's limits and it's not something you hear very often amongst tenergy users. I would say at least 90% of club players can't hit hard enough to qualify for 2.1 T05 |
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ZJKandMLfan
Super Member Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
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i went up to erie to play a couple times where seemiller and his group of juniors regularly go up there to play.
seemiller does not prepare for tournaments nor does he practice hard. he just coaches his players and trains with them. you will not really see him drill to upgrade or maintain his own standards. It's the fact that danny has such a good foundation that even with limited practice, he can keep up with most. also, look at danny's match history. very rarely does he lost to senior players who are his age or lower. he mainly loses to juniors
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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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More control, it allows me to play a heavy topspin to a quick incoming ball, so I can slow the tempo of the rally in my favour, it probably does not come across too well in the clips, but my b/hand topspin is loaded, and I also like the feeling of the ball bottoming out when I flat hit. So my b/hand is constantly varying and working the ball, the f/hand is just the hammer that knocks the nail in.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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I see. I found that I too play better with 2.0 or less on the BH, but I thought that was because I punch, block, and hit more than loop. It's good to know that even for someone playing top spin like you, thinner rubber on the BH is still a benefit. Thank you for the clear response. |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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That is not what I said. I quite clearly said that it was "a rare event."
Danny Seemiller is 56 or 57 years old. Four to five years older than me. The most recent of those two losses was to Fred Cantarelli. Fred is a college player, but is not having a rapid climb in level. He has improved less than 100 points over the last three years. The other was Tung D. Phan who has been between 2200-2300 for the last 16 years. I don't know his age.
I've never seen Danny Seemiller just play for fun in a tournament. That's one thing I really like about him - his intensity, drive and focus. Yes, context and situation matter. So do playing styles. I went through a fair bit of trouble to say that and to give some idea of the degree of precision that you can expect from a USATT rating. You said that there was "no way" that Wiggy would beat Seemiller in a serious tournament. I'm simply saying that it is certainly possible if their levels are even in the ballpark of each other. I'd still bet on Seemiller (sorry Wiggy). Knowing a person's rating gives you an idea of what is possible and likely. But it isn't the final say by a long shot. That's why we play the match. I was surprised to see Seemiller lose this match even though the ratings levels were similar between the players. Seemiller did beat Avishy a month later in straight games at the 2010 US Open. Sorry for the shaky video. I was on the way out, ready to drive back to Arizona, when I saw this close match ending and had no tripod available. Edited by wturber - 07/26/2011 at 1:36pm |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Sure. Sakda was rated 2376 to Seemiller's 2461. If your rating is within 100 points of your opponent, you need to take each other very seriously. Of the four matches between these two, this one that Seemiller lost was the one where the ratings gap was narrowest. Ratings do convey some degree of useful information - even if far too many players overestimate what is being communicated. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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stevejackson900
Member Joined: 09/06/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thats awesome i would agree. Thumbs up for this one
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collins.latag
Super Member Joined: 05/10/2012 Location: CA US Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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I think you are at 2400. Your style of play is not all flashy but the consistency is indeed there.
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PPisLife
Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic |
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collins.latag
Super Member Joined: 05/10/2012 Location: CA US Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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Wow... the great Ernesto Ebuen. :) He is indeed a very good player and a very good coach! His dad who is also named Ernesto is fun to watch as well. :)
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PPisLife
Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic |
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collins.latag
Super Member Joined: 05/10/2012 Location: CA US Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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LOL... i'm sure they are ranked way higher than me. (just to be on the safe side) :P. Anyone could feel the power they emphasize to open each rally. :)
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PPisLife
Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Will take this to heart going forward - it will be my inspiration for how to develop my game. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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