Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Friendly Match US1260 vs US1537
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Friendly Match US1260 vs US1537

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
kenneyy88 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4074
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2011 at 12:51am
lmao at your opponent, hes pretty funny. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
richrf View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/02/2009
Location: Stamford
Status: Offline
Points: 1522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2011 at 1:43am
Hi,

Thanks for sharing your video. 

Here is what I would recommend that you focus on (this and nothing else for the next few months):

1) Conditioning: you need to be in an athletic position at all times. That means, feet wider apart, on the balls of your feets, leaning slightly forward, and slightly bent at the waist. This is imperative to see the ball correctly, get to the ball in a correct position, and hitting the ball with the maximum speed. Some of the balls that are being returned to  you can be smashed right by the opponent if you had position and speed in your shots. 

2) Speed: Speed overcomes spin and everything else. That is why the Chinese practice speed. Look at the videos of coachtt123 on youtube. Find the ball in your power zone and hit it using a short forward topspin arc using the torque of your body. Feel your body winding up inside, nice and strong, and then release it into the point of contact. Practice this feeling over and over again. You can shadow practice in front of a mirror. Fast, faster, faster! Take a look at your videos and compare it to your favorite player. Don't be satisfied until you see that sudden release of power into the ball. Speed in releasing and recovery will improve your game dramatically. This is what I am solely working on right now in my game. 

3) Footwork: Stay on the balls of your feet, get to the ball correctly,  and hit every forehand with that same motion (beautiful arc) that you use in your warm-ups. Don't give up! Keep moving and get to that ball. Then turn your body using that athletic turn and release it into that ball! Get  good topsin and drive it right past your opponent. If he hits it back, then keep training until he learns that lob means a lost point. One smash and kill it right past him. There is a 1900 player at the club I go to who can whip me with no problem for a variety of reasons. But if there is a lob, I smash it right past him. Next time I see a video, I want to see that power smash that is the result of conditioning, speed and great footwork! Good luck!




Edited by richrf - 12/24/2011 at 2:02am
Back to Top
ohhgourami View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/12/2008
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 2341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2011 at 2:12am
I noticed in this vid something I never noticed in the others - your fh mechanics are much much worse than I thought.  Instead of looping the ball by swinging your arms, snapping elbow, or snapping wrist, you extend your arm forward to hit the ball.  YOUR ELBOWS ARE ALWAYS BENT BEFORE YOU START YOUR STROKE!!!!  How can you possibly get any power?  The only options you have then are only rotating your torso or extending your arms - both of which you will do instead of swing into the ball.  Because you do that, the chances of landing a ball is slim.  No wonder your game consist of excessive pushing.  Until you get a ball that is smashable, you don't even loop since your mechanics don't even allow you to.  Having power to put into your stroke lets you create spin, speed, or ideally a combination of both.  You have completely restricted your own movement so you can't do either.

This also applies to how you hit bh also.  Instead of naturally unwinding your arm while hitting a bh, you keep it retracted so all you are left is a weak bump.  Don't expect to be able to learn a flick any time soon until you break this habit.

As of stroke mechanics, this is one of the worst flaws.  This and not being able to create power from your legs.
Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g
Back to Top
richrf View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/02/2009
Location: Stamford
Status: Offline
Points: 1522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/2011 at 2:22am
Observe Jean Philippe Gatien in slow motion (interspersed in the video). Observe how he achieves spin and speed. This is classic athletic motion which is used in all sports including martial arts. 


Compare to  the modern tennis forehand stroke:


Here Cheng Yinghua gives some instruction



Edited by richrf - 12/24/2011 at 2:53am
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2011 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I agree with hookumsnivy's and mhnh007's comments.

I don't agree with NextLevel. It isn't the rubber.   Icontek needs to think differently (aggressively).   I can think aggressively with Reflectoid on my FH or with a hard bat.   Icontek needs a different opponent that plays very aggressively. Such an opponent would not give you much of a chance to push more than once before putting him on the defensive.



Short replies are liable to be misinterpreted.  My comment had very little to do with the rubber.  My comment had more to do with that he needed to work with stronger players and in the absence of stronger players, he had to regularly change equipment to understand how to improve his stroke.  Picking equipment that he is comfortable with will never force him to change his game.  However, learning to keep the ball on the table with faster rubbers will give him far greater margin for error when he goes back to slower rubbers.  It is the same tip recommended for serving - increase the risk of your serves in practice and it translates over to your game.

The one thing that forces you to change your game is playing against stronger players and picking up tips and corrections from them.  Most people who are responding with comments from afar like yours (he needs to be more aggressive etc.) underestimate the role of stronger players in your development.  I think the rest of your response points that out.

The other thing that makes these comments a bit unfair is that he is playing a defensive player and a defensive player makes everyone look good.  What would be more insightful would be how Icontek would match up against a mid-distance looper.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2011 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

I noticed in this vid something I never noticed in the others - your fh mechanics are much much worse than I thought.  Instead of looping the ball by swinging your arms, snapping elbow, or snapping wrist, you extend your arm forward to hit the ball.  YOUR ELBOWS ARE ALWAYS BENT BEFORE YOU START YOUR STROKE!!!!  How can you possibly get any power?  The only options you have then are only rotating your torso or extending your arms - both of which you will do instead of swing into the ball.  Because you do that, the chances of landing a ball is slim.  No wonder your game consist of excessive pushing.  Until you get a ball that is smashable, you don't even loop since your mechanics don't even allow you to.  Having power to put into your stroke lets you create spin, speed, or ideally a combination of both.  You have completely restricted your own movement so you can't do either.

This also applies to how you hit bh also.  Instead of naturally unwinding your arm while hitting a bh, you keep it retracted so all you are left is a weak bump.  Don't expect to be able to learn a flick any time soon until you break this habit.

As of stroke mechanics, this is one of the worst flaws.  This and not being able to create power from your legs.


The forehand comment is very true - however, I have an equally bad stroke and I have worked for almost 6 months to improve my patience in waiting for the ball to come off the table and use my waist and legs to add power into the shot and this is with a 2400 coach that I pay $25 per lesson and the instruction and side comments of all the 1200-2200 players at my club.

Developing a good forehand loop is very difficult for someone who has not been correctly trained.  I've been there so I understand what he is going through much more than people who take for granted all the things that Icontek doesn't have.  If Icontek has the resources, he should spend some time getting professional coaching and that will solve his problems.  Otherwise, more limited recommendations make sense.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2011 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

Observe Jean Philippe Gatien in slow motion (interspersed in the video). Observe how he achieves spin and speed. This is classic athletic motion which is used in all sports including martial arts. 


Compare to  the modern tennis forehand stroke:


Here Cheng Yinghua gives some instruction



Icontek,

If you have a robot, I recommend you study and implement these videos.  I developed bad technique as a child so I'm used to reaching out in front of me for the ball like you and for this same reason,  my backhand is much better than my forehand (like for you).

What you need to realize is that very often, you can wait for the ball to enter your "hitting zone" and take it there.  However, it takes excruciating practice (patience mostly), problems with your shoulder and other issues to realize that there is no alternative way to loop properly.  However, with a robot, it is not that hard to learn.  When you start to take the ball from the same spot ( a spot closer to your body line where you can generate power, as oppsed to reaching out for it in front of you), then your game changes ridiculously.

Another problem you had in your games is that you rarely let the ball drop below the net/table to pick it up with a loop (forehand or backhand). This is probably the biggest indicator that a person does not appreciate the power of the loop and you haven't realized the full potential of your rubbers and your body for creating the stroke that shaped the modern game.

However, these are difficult things to incorporate without pro-coaching.  But if you have a robot, watching the third video will teach you a lot (I worked with my coach on similar things).
Back to Top
ohhgourami View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/12/2008
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 2341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/26/2011 at 12:24am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:


The forehand comment is very true - however, I have an equally bad stroke and I have worked for almost 6 months to improve my patience in waiting for the ball to come off the table and use my waist and legs to add power into the shot and this is with a 2400 coach that I pay $25 per lesson and the instruction and side comments of all the 1200-2200 players at my club.

Developing a good forehand loop is very difficult for someone who has not been correctly trained.  I've been there so I understand what he is going through much more than people who take for granted all the things that Icontek doesn't have.  If Icontek has the resources, he should spend some time getting professional coaching and that will solve his problems.  Otherwise, more limited recommendations make sense.

There are ways to compensate for having a poor stroke.  The way you compensated for your lack of a powerful swing was to utilize you legs and waist - that makes sense.  What do you notice to your shots when you don't use your legs and waist?  That is what icontek is doing for 90% of his shots.  There is no one way to properly do a stroke but there was many "ideal" strokes for certain people.  icontek is not utilizing any of those models.  What makes it even worse is that he uses H3 on fh which means he really has to produce power well.

Like you said you had to practice for 6 months and waiting for the ball to come off the table to be consistent and have a decent fh.  Having a more effective swing would let you take the ball earlier and even short balls above the table even if the ball is net height.

I do understand that icontek is in a difficult situation.  He lacks quality coaches and training partners to let him be able to build a quality form for good shots.  None of the opponents in his videos even come close to having solid fundamentals so I don't expect them to even block 10 balls for him.  There are some simple drills that I have mentioned to icontek in order to build his basics and his training partners so they mutually improve.  I can try to help him as much as I could by giving simple yet very effective drills but it ultimately comes down to him to implement them.

For the two years of tt, my fh form was all over the place.  I did have less bad habits but my form was constantly changing.  It took me over a year to develop a consistent fh and that is with a great coach.  I used up a lot of money and time by doing 200 mile round trip road trips every week in order to get 1 hour lessons to get to my current form.  Even with solid fundamentals my official rating is still ~950 since I don't play much.  I never had too much time to play tt in college especially now since it is my last year.
Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g
Back to Top
dingyibvs View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/09/2011
Location: California
Status: Online
Points: 1401
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/26/2011 at 2:38am
Eh...none of these technical advice means jack shiz if he doesn't use it.  His first order of business, as he's correctly doing, is to work on being more aggressive.  If aggression is priority 1A, then looping backspins should be priority 1B.  I see way too many lower level players practice looping against blocks, which for them is just a waste of time.  You need to be able to make an opening loop first before you'll get a block back!!!  I can understand him not having enough opportunities to train making opening loops, but I can't understand him not trying to make up for it by looping every long push coming to his FH side.  All players who wish to play an attacking/looping game needs to focus at least 80% of their efforts on looping backspins until they reach at least 1500.  People below that level often get one-shot killed by an opening loop, and even when they block it back it's usually a return that's more fit for a smash than a second loop.

EDIT:

In short, in order to use all the things he practices in drills, he needs to 1) actually try to use them in games, and 2) create situations where he could use them in games.  That means being more aggressive and developing an effective opening loop.


Edited by dingyibvs - 12/26/2011 at 12:52pm
Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max
BH: D09C max
Back to Top
icontek View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
This is FPS Doug

Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: Maine, US
Status: Offline
Points: 5222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2011 at 12:22pm
First off, I appreciate all of the time that people have invested in analysis.

Here's what I've gathered:

-ready position to neutral
       -recover faster after stroke
-movement - skip step
       -get in position, especially for BH and line up the shot to my body's centerline
-stay lower
-relax grip
-focus on opening loop

I can most of this with a friends robot. Perhaps it's time for a good reboot. I've been hesitant to use a robot only because I don't have anyone to correct what I am doing wrong. And practice makes permanent.

I live in an area with no coaching, and closest local players (within an hour drive) are US1400-1500. I haven't found anyone to do multiball yet.

But... am joining a Gym next month, hope to develop some core strength and flexibility over the next 12 months and drop a few pounds to get lighter on my feet.
US1260.RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42
Back to Top
richrf View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/02/2009
Location: Stamford
Status: Offline
Points: 1522
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2011 at 2:07pm
I too am working on fast coiling, releasing, and recovery of the core. I spend time in front of the mirror just going back and forth to time. I also release my breadth at supposed impact. This is something a Chinese trained player once told me to do. Despite constant flexibility training (yoga) my back still hurt this morning after 2.5 hours of practice last night. But it is worth it. Very steady and accurate. Also, as I increase speed I need hit the ball at more of an angle to drive the ball down. I expect that you will find the same. 
Back to Top
pnachtwey View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/09/2010
Location: Vancouver, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2035
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2011 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


I can most of this with a friends robot.

Me too but it is different in a game.


Quote
I've been hesitant to use a robot only because I don't have anyone to correct what I am doing wrong. And practice makes permanent.

I use my video camera.  It can work wonders because often you are more critical about yourself than others would be.
 
Quote
I live in an area with no coaching, and closest local players (within an hour drive) are US1400-1500. I haven't found anyone to do multiball yet.

That 1400-1500 should be good.  You should be able to win a few games and matches here and there.
Can't you buy a bag or box of balls for use in that place you show in the videos?

Quote
But... am joining a Gym next month, hope to develop some core strength and flexibility over the next 12 months and drop a few pounds to get lighter on my feet.

Good but I agree with the comments above about being more aggressive.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.