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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sahiggs100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2011 at 7:29pm
There are more factors to consider anyway, like how high of a tentative rating they receive.  If they receive a pretty high tentative rating and play bad, even losing all their matches they will still get a decent rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2011 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks the guy w/o a hat is clearly better? His BH is very consistent. Even though they split the games, the other guy's FH attack % won't keep up to win the match... I don't really think either of them should use carbon blades, though. I think the guy w/o a hat is prolly in the 1400s and the other guy is 100-200 pts lower. Both of them could be anywhere between 1100 and 1600, though.
I thought the one with the hat had a lazy backhand especially late in the games and lost the game because of it, he would realy benifit with a inverted rubbers and a small step to the left when the other player plays to his BH corner
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2011 at 11:46pm
One with hat is clearly better, (He is beter at keeping it on the table) but would be 1300 max, depending on what region of USA he plays. One without hat 1250 with same disclaimer. I would be very surprised to to see them rated any higher. If so, I would have to go over there for a tourney to bag me sum rating points.
 
The ammount of money these guys would spend in USA with a USATT 2400-2500 level coach to reach 1800 would be insanely high and make that coach's assests high enough to fund a hostile takeover of a major corperation. They could take that money, pay for tickets to Korea, train there, and still have ample funds after two years of coaching and living expenses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2011 at 11:58pm
OK, my guess is 1430 for one and 1500 for the other.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2011 at 12:15am
My guess is 1259 and 1342 (maybe 1370)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2011 at 1:32am
They both look like division 3 in my league. Of course they might look worse if they play players they aren't used to. They look like they would get about 25-50% in division 3 based on this video. 
If they went to tournaments to get a rating/ranking in UK I would imagine they wouldn't even get on there lol (no offence)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2011 at 8:35am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

One with hat is clearly better, (He is beter at keeping it on the table) but would be 1300 max, depending on what region of USA he plays. One without hat 1250 with same disclaimer. I would be very surprised to to see them rated any higher. If so, I would have to go over there for a tourney to bag me sum rating points.
 
The ammount of money these guys would spend in USA with a USATT 2400-2500 level coach to reach 1800 would be insanely high and make that coach's assests high enough to fund a hostile takeover of a major corperation. They could take that money, pay for tickets to Korea, train there, and still have ample funds after two years of coaching and living expenses.

"fund a hostile takeover of a major corporation" wth, ahahhhahaha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomkat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2011 at 11:25am
Cap guy 1500,jean shorts 1550. Jean shorts guy's serves are quite illegal(no ball toss and in front of the endline). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2011 at 4:25pm
icontek,
 
Have you any videos of LP against anti?
 
Does anyone have videos of 2000+ level LP against anti gameplay?
 
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2011 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

One with hat is clearly better, (He is beter at keeping it on the table) but would be 1300 max, depending on what region of USA he plays. One without hat 1250 with same disclaimer. I would be very surprised to to see them rated any higher. If so, I would have to go over there for a tourney to bag me sum rating points.
 
The ammount of money these guys would spend in USA with a USATT 2400-2500 level coach to reach 1800 would be insanely high and make that coach's assests high enough to fund a hostile takeover of a major corperation. They could take that money, pay for tickets to Korea, train there, and still have ample funds after two years of coaching and living expenses.

"fund a hostile takeover of a major corporation" wth, ahahhhahaha
 
Just saying it would take a LOT of $$$ is boring and doesn't effectively convey that it would indeed take a LOT of $$$ and that a number of US coaches are in it for the "cash cow". These coaches "milk" the player for a lot of expensive lessons and do not level up the players a whole lot. How many times have you seen a semi-rich dude get top coaching and all the coach really does is be a highly paid blocker? Most who come to Korea and get a couple years club membership with light training of 3x a week multiball lessons reach anywhere from USATT 1500-2100 starting out as a 1000 level newb. They do that with any equipment. The coaching, matches, and tourneys bring up the rest.
 
Maybe I should have said they could move to Hookshot's town and buy him a new ride and get free coaching for a couple years and shoot up 400-600 USATT points. Hookshot doesn't mess around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2011 at 7:56pm
I coach at a college and am not allowed to charge money. (only when at the college).
 I see many people with wierd games. Most have played enough basement play that the strokes are now habit. I have tried to help some of these when I first started coaching. Now, I would refuse to spend time trying to help some of these.

I do try to help anybody learn how to do good serves. Also some tactics even with strange strokes. 
 
My best students have always been someone that has not played at all or very little. Once in a while, I get someone that is very good. One guy from Nepal, (was on thier Junior National team) was the best. He was only here for one year and transferred to a bigger school out of state.

If I was charging money, would I coach anybody? Don't know. It is frustrating when you spend hours showing something and as soon as he gets in a game, it is gone. All the old habits are back.
With new students, I start by showing a training vid so they know what we are trying to learn. I only teach double inverted. I will use my Seemiller setup so they can see what it is like to play against anti.  Smile

I would not try to coach either player in the vid. They are too set in thier ways. For me to do them any good, they would have to change thier strokes, grip, footwork, stance, well, almost everything.


Edited by Hookshot - 04/11/2011 at 8:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2011 at 5:48pm
Not really sure what their level is.  All depends how they handle spin.

TBH, just looking at their weird serves, they might beat me, if they can handle spin...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Takadigi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2011 at 6:31pm
Contrary to popular judgement in this thread, I think these guys are US 1700 to 1900 players or even higher. As APW46 mentioned, both of these guys appear to have been playing for a long time and have a very good feeling of the ball. But their completely uni-dimensional & flawed game will absolutely not let them improve any further. Those of you who are sub-1600 players and feel you can beat them, you may get a rude shock if you happen to get on to the table with them. I doubt a sub-1600 player can even take a single game from either of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2011 at 7:25pm
Wow, you're definitely going against the grain on this one.  1700-1900 seems WAY too high.  They are too many flaws in their game and unforced errors to be at that level.  Not to mention their questionable tactics. 
If you're right, I'll gladly eat my words.


Edited by hookumsnivy - 04/12/2011 at 7:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Takadigi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2011 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Wow, you're definitely going against the grain on this one.  1700-1900 seems WAY too high.  They are too many flaws in their game and unforced errors to be at that level.  Not to mention their questionable tactics. 
If you're right, I'll gladly eat my words.


I could very well be wrong as it is really difficult to accurately judge someone's level from a video particularly for those do not play conventional strokes. It will be interesting to wait and get confirmation of their real ratings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2011 at 9:21pm
Rating and match history posted on Page 1.


Thanks all for playing, there were some interesting observations in the thread.

Folks who pointed out that Scott's FH was effective were partially right (on table% needs to be higher)

Folks who pointed out that John had a strong BH were correct (push or counter, he will keep it in play).

I'll see if I can get a match of John vs. a more traditional opponent soon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iCanLoopHard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2011 at 10:47pm
nice this is fun i wasnt off by too much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomkat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 12:49am
WooHoo,what do I win! Smile I'm about 1600 myself and both players were making some shots that would "give me some problems",so I figured both were at the 1500-1600 level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 1:23am
Guys from around the same level and play these kind of guys at tournaments should have been able to get that pretty close and it seems they did. It's normal for player rated less than them to underrate guys above them in some crazy show of self confidence :). Guys above the players in the video probably under rate them also but to a lesser amount.  Players just like this without any formal training or having grown up playing good players become unorthodox naturally, these guys make up the bulk of every club and without them we wouldn't have the numbers and wouldn't have clubs so remember to celebrate the average player! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 8:30am
Tomkat I have an old sheet of fake provincial h3. How does that sound?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 8:48am
And without opponents like these I would get spanked by unorthodox styles at tournament time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomkat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 8:51am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Tomkat I have an old sheet of fake provincial h3. How does that sound?


Thanks but I play with junk rubber on both sides,anti on the BH and medium pips on the FH. Gotta keep em on their toes. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 9:00am
No points for getting their ratingscentral numbers right? ;)  I was lazy and didn't look up their usatt ratings before posting my guess.
Interesting that their ratingscentral rating is noticeably lower.

Those guys haven't played in a usatt event since may of 2008.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 9:03am
The most interesting thing here is that almost every one who guessed gave them a lower ranking then what they actually have.

Now, is this because so few have seen their own game on video and thinks they look so much better then these guys? Or, is it because this is the internet and it's so easy to put people down?

Sure, awkwards styles and a coach who wanted to teach them proper strokes would end up baldwith in an hour, but they where way more consistent then a lot of other ~1400-1600 players I've seen on vids.

I failed to see the strong fh, but the bh seemed to be a real weapon. Hardly a loop, but a good bh hit from one of the guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 11:19am
Thanx for the post and follow-up. I would have guessed the hatless guy (Mr. BackHand) was higher rated. 

It goes to show watching people play, drill, warm-up whatever can give you very different impressions compared to when you play them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote addoydude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 11:26am
yeah.. People watching me play always overrate me. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 12:22pm

This is a nice test how to rate player based on video. 

I can feel that John's rating is higher, because his playing is more stable, and tough to play with. But I did not give him enough point.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 12:28pm
Here is the thing - I watched the video and then tried to compare these guys to the people who play tournaments in Quincy and see who plays at approximately same level. And I frankly thought that people who have 1300-1400 rating would have no problem at all with both of these players. I was apparently wrong.

However - I should say two things

a) those ratings are very old
b) those ratings are from Maine-only tournaments while playing vs the same crowd. It would be very different for these guys when they come to another place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Interesting that their ratingscentral rating is noticeably lower.

Those guys haven't played in a usatt event since may of 2008.


I noticed when comparing rating central ratings of players at my recent tournament vs their USATT ratings that across the board the ratings were 200 and up to even 400 points lower on rating central.

Ratings that are 3 years old are pretty unreliable...younger players especially can advance 400 points in a single year or older players who stopped drilling can lose 100 points in a year easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chu_bun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2011 at 2:01pm
Maybe rating is relative to a region.  These guys appear to be more consistent that 1300-1400 level players I play with.  I'm on par with 1500-1600 players in my region, but I'm not so sure I can beat these two in a tournament.  
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