|
|
|
My backhand topspin |
Post Reply 
|
Page 12> |
| Author | ||
Rainer87 
Super Member 
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: My backhand topspinPosted: 11/22/2011 at 5:17pm |
|
|
I have been working lately on my backhand topspin. As a goal I have taken on learning backhand topspin from Ma Long :), actually from his training video.
His video: He are some backhands of my own from todays training match: I am fairly satisfied with what I see. I know I should work more on my hip rotation and moving more forward rather than up. My hip rotation is actually near to zero in matches (both FH and BH), I didnt notice it before and I have been working on it for few weeks. It is very difficult to break up from old habbits I must say. Extra advice is always welcome, so maybe anybody from here can write few pointers. Thanks! Edited by Rainer87 - 11/22/2011 at 5:18pm |
||
 |
||
| Sponsored Links | ||
|
||
|
razortt
Silver Member 
Joined: 07/09/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 504 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/22/2011 at 7:03pm |
|
|
Good effort and keep working at it. Ma Long's stroke don't look much, but don't be fooled. Within MaLong's shoe, there's a very experienced and hidden weight transfer and light hop thats happening to execute the shot, and Ma's backhand topspin is forward and very relaxed, not upward and sideway like yours. He can do that all day and not even feeling tired. Your muscle is too tensed and its very powerful shot, but its all brute force. Depending on your physical condition, one may get tired and/or get sore/injured shoulder very quickly if doing this for long period of time. I would suggest you to relax a little and very light hop when execute this shot. |
||
|
||
|
Hookshot
Gold Member 
Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/22/2011 at 7:58pm |
|
|
Your stroke is not even close to Ma's.
Watch for "End of Stroke Position."
|
||
|
||
|
Hookshot
Gold Member
Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/22/2011 at 9:29pm |
|
|
If you want to learn strokes from videos, you must be able to "see" what you are looking at and then be able to compare to what you are actually doing. The key points to watch for on strokes are, "Start" of stroke and "End" of stroke bat position.
At o:20 in the first vid, he is telling him not to come up so much but go into it.  Edited by Hookshot - 11/22/2011 at 9:34pm |
||
|
||
|
ZJKandMLfan
Super Member
Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/22/2011 at 9:43pm |
|
|
good effort but theres a big problem here... like the others said before, you';re going up and ur not using waist rotation.
the brute force part is always very true
|
||
|
Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
||
|
||
|
chrisgrace
Member 
Joined: 11/17/2011 Location: New York, NY Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/22/2011 at 11:07pm |
|
|
Wang Hao looks sad picking up the balls.
|
||
|
||
|
Thaidog
Gold Member
Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1661 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/22/2011 at 11:26pm |
|
|
You need to incorporate more wrist in to the motion. If you watch his motion you will notice that the wrist starts bent and that the stroke in general is more horizontal due to how fast he rotates the wrist through the hitting area. Try to think less arm movement more wrist rotation. In your slow motion notice the separation of your elbow from the side of the body and try to minimize that as a swing thought.
This is an over the table shot so the elbow separation stays wide but it gives a good example of wrist set:    Think wrist, rotor-cuff and triceps... minimize deltoids. |
||
|
Timo ALC FL
Tibhar Grip S MAx Tenergy 64 FX National 2.1mm He never boosts... of course he never had to... |
||
|
||
|
cotdt
Gold Member
Joined: 10/19/2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 1:34am |
|
 |
||
|
Nittaku Resound
FH: Joola Timeless BH: Joola Timeless |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 1:39am |
|
I didnt say it was! |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 1:59am |
|
To all: I am not compering myself to Ma Long, I am just trying to learn from him. Being tense is in my body, I can get rid of it just so easly. I have had problems with tense back muscles for long time. For that I need to visit masseur very often, but lately I havent had time or money for that. Because I am mostly behind desk at work, it is putting more pressure on my back, shoulders and neck. Last week I was practising this shot with robot for an hour in row and I didnt feel that I got mor tense or something. I thnik I can relax myself more when I am doing drills, but yes, being tense is my big concern as well. Feels like a strange question, but how should I work more on forward motion? Is it in my waste rotation or something with leg movement, like pushing forward with toes? :D Anyway, thanks for your tips! Edited by Rainer87 - 11/23/2011 at 2:34am |
||
|
||
|
Hookshot
Gold Member
Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 2:01am |
|
|
No offense intended.
By showing the two vids, you implied you wanted a comparision.
If you want to learn the stroke, I would suggest going to multiball. Then you can concentrate on the stroke. Also, start with less power.
Good luck. |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 2:08am |
|
I was actually thinking about taking my laptop to practise and look at Ma`s videos, then recording my own and then try to analyze my moves. It is quite a big hussle, but it might be worth it. Shame that we dont have a proper coach over there. Yes, my strokes are too long and I should minimize them. About long strokes, I asked the same question from semi-pro player after our match and he said that long strokes are actually not so bad, because with long strokes you are more consistent. Short strokes need more accuracy and a lot of practise. Your opinions about what he said? |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 2:19am |
|
I was not offended. Well, it might have come out as a comparision, but i didnt intend to do that. I started looking at his backhand video and wanted to learn from it. I just pointed out the video, so you guys would know what I was talking about. I have been doing multiball with robot, maybe I will record next session and will show you guys as well, please dont expect that I will be a lot better than now :D. I have been trying to do multiball with my partner, but it is very difficult to learn, I mean feed balls (what is right term for that?). About less power. In game I also intend to hit too hard esspecially when I am late and I rarely get it on the table. But when I would put less power, doesnt the ball end in net. With less power movement has to be defferent from the stroke with normal power stroke to get it over the net, or am I wrong? Edited by Rainer87 - 11/23/2011 at 2:47am |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 2:24am |
|
yes, my wrist movement is nearly non-existing as well. I have being trying to learn it, but I cant get the right feel of it. I mean, when I am working on my wrist, then everything else is falling apart, it is very diffcult to put all new thing in action at once, but i will keep working on it. Thanks for the foils. How should I work more on wrist motion, is there some special exercises? "Think wrist, rotor-cuff and triceps... minimize deltoids" Can you or anyone else refrase the answer. I know the meaning of the words separetly, but dont understand what do you want to say. Edited by Rainer87 - 11/23/2011 at 6:20am |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 2:57am |
|
True, point taken! |
||
|
||
|
Imago
Premier Member 
Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 3:06am |
|
|
Your forearm brachialis must be two times bigger on the right hand. Pump it.
PS. By serving 10000 times the reverse pendulum serve. Per week. Edited by Imago - 11/23/2011 at 3:09am |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 3:15am |
|
I dont understand, are you off topic, are you trying to be funny, or what are you talking about? What brachialis means? Can you point out what you are talking about in the video? OK, practising serve is always good. Edited by Rainer87 - 11/23/2011 at 3:17am |
||
|
||
|
dingyibvs
Gold Member
Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 6:01am |
|
|
I disagree with most of the comments. Yes, Rainer should add more wrist rotation and body weight transfer, but those are slight variations that he can add quite easily after he's got the basic motion down. The key difference between his stroke and Ma Long's is actually much smaller than it looks. I know because I'm going through the exact same transition from his current stroke to one more like Ma Long's.
Rainer, the stroke you have right now is a very good start, and can is in fact an intermediate between what Thaidog posted, which is an over the table BH loop often used by ZJK, with the focus almost entirely on spin and what Ma Long's doing, which is an all out loop drive, with the focus on speed. As an intermediate form, you're hitting more than the ZJK loop, but brushing more than the ML loop. In order to transition to Ma Long's stroke, you can start by hitting high backspin balls. If you can find a training partner, have him give you a few somewhat high backspin balls, preferably around twice the height of the net or less. Basically high enough to flat hit rather comfortably but not so high that you can smash easily. Cock your wrist and have your racket roughly perpendicular to the table, and just hit it flat on, no spin whatsoever, until you can land a good percentage of it(you can use this exercise to help establish your wrist motion as well). This way you get a good feel of how it's like to hit the ball. Now, you should try to blend your current motion with the hitting motion. It's impossible to describe exactly how to hit that shot, but when you hit it, it should feel and sound very much like a flat hit, like Ma Long's. Note that based on my experiences, moving from your current stroke to ML's takes a LOT of time. There'll be a GREAT decrease in consistency that'll take you a very, very long time to master. I'd start with a slower motion first. Once you got that down, you can work to limit your motion so that it's shorter as in Ma Long's video. This cuts down on the speed a little bit, but gives you much better control and recovery time.
|
||
|
Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 6:51am |
|
|
I am going with my mate to gym already today.
So little bit higher backspin balls and hit them with racket vertically to the table and using mostly wrist? Sound like good exercise. I will try it today. I know it all takes a lot of time and time in longer period I have. I have been playing for 3 years. My goal is to reach highest level of my game in 10 years. I just turned 30 on Monday and when I am 40 I want to be in first 100 in Estonia, at the moment I am 288, out of 600. Is it realistic goal if I keep on playing. Do you have videos of your backhand topspin? Edited by Rainer87 - 11/23/2011 at 7:03am |
||
|
||
|
icontek
Premier Member
This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 9:22am |
|
|
The coach who talked about big motion vs compact echoed what a US2300 coach said to me.
In order to create the waist rotation you want he insisted that the start position be with dropping the front shoulder in line with the incoming ball and the backswing starting at left hip. Then keep the rest of the big followthrough. If you work on recovery time, you can use it within a foot of the table all the way out to mid-distance and the stroke is consistent at those ranges against a variety of spins. I've tried, but can only use this stroke at mid-distance. Luckily, even from there it puts enough pressure on opponents to break their blocks within a few strokes and often makes them pop up weak balls that can be attacked with forehand. |
||
|
||
|
assiduous
Platinum Member 
Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 10:02am |
|
|
Ma long's BH is sick! Low chopped balls comes back at you like a smack of a popped ball. The sound from contact and the speed of the return resemble more people's smack than people's loops..
|
||
|
puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
|
||
|
||
|
harldhzx
Super Member
Joined: 07/10/2005 Status: Offline Points: 111 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 10:36am |
|
|
It's actually very difficult to do these fast full body shots like Ma Long - you need to be pretty well coordinated, otherwise the momentum from you hip turn etc does not get focused on the ball contact. That's also the problem with using wrist. You need wrist snap and the waist etc - and that's where it's getting difficult. Probably needs a coach to correct you for some period of time.
|
||
|
||
|
BeaverMD
Gold Member
Joined: 11/09/2007 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 11:10am |
|
That was actually pretty funny.
Ma Long: Yeah, pick up my balls, beyotch.
|
||
|
||
|
kenneyy88
Premier Member
Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 11:18am |
|
|
I would start trying to incorporate wrist into your bh vs block first. Eventually getting used to it, then adding more body parts to it as you get use to the motion, and eventually work up to loop vs backspin.
Basically cock your wrist back and bring your elbow forward and try to get the wrist to catch up with it and release the wrist forward. The Zhang Jike pictures are good to follow. Here is a better example of using the wrist from Ma Long. |
||
|
||
|
DreiZ
Platinum Member
Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2574 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 3:06pm |
|
+1 on that video. great slowmo vid on backhand. im trying to learn this as well.
|
||
|
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm USATT: 1725 |
||
|
||
|
Thaidog
Gold Member
Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1661 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 3:07pm |
|
|
Here is good clip of mid distance backhand looping:
http://www.alphatabletennis.com/clips/04-09.html Note the extreme wrist angle Thiago uses. I find that difficult to mimic 
|
||
|
Timo ALC FL
Tibhar Grip S MAx Tenergy 64 FX National 2.1mm He never boosts... of course he never had to... |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/23/2011 at 3:28pm |
|
+1 This video is also in my favorites! |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/25/2011 at 6:23am |
|
His wrist movement is extreme. I didnt have chance to try it myself at training yesterday, but I tried it at work with my returnboard. I didnt try to mimic Tiago or anybody else, I was just trying to put more wrist to it. Here is small clip how it came out: Edited by Rainer87 - 11/25/2011 at 6:26am |
||
|
||
|
Kolev
Gold Member
Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/25/2011 at 10:24am |
|
|
Way to go buddy. My only small remark would be about your feet position while doing the drill. I would suggest you rather left feet closer to the table, than the right one.Bending a bit more your knees would bring even more power to your BH.
|
||
|
Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
||
|
||
|
Rainer87
Super Member
Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11/25/2011 at 2:11pm |
|
You are right about the feet and body position. I was actually thinking about the same thing, when i watched my video. Keeping left leg closer to the table puts me in better position if next ball should be for my FH. |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |
Topic Options
chrisgrace wrote: