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Nexy Karis M and M+ reviews |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I'm not sure I should use the word slow to describe it anymore (I used that word in my review). Coming from MX-P it seems that why at first because I was accustomed to nonlinear rubbers. With more time I now get plenty of pace when I want it. Oldtimers may remember a rubber called Visco. I remember having some of the same impressions about it. Of course that was very long ago.
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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I never played with Yasaka Visco, but used Yasaka Mark V for few years, and my vague recollections from over three decades ago (when I used Mark V) point to meaningful similarities in feel and playing performance between Karis and glued Mark V. |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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@fatt - please take my comments on the similarities of Karis and Mark V with a grain of salt, because as I mentioned in my post, my recollections of Mark V are vague due to passage of time. Also, I glued my rubbers only lightly, so those who poured lots of glue on their rubbers might comment that there aren't really any modern rubbers comparable in feel to a heavily glued Mark V.
Having said so, like Mark V, I believe that Karis M is very versatile, predictable/controllable attacking rubber suitable to a wide variety of players of different skill levels. It's also grippy enough to allow for generating very good amount of spin, while not being particularly sensitive to incoming spin, especially in short game.
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bogeyhunter
Gold Member Joined: 02/22/2006 Location: Jacksonville, F Status: Offline Points: 1245 |
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It can generate more than enough spin on serves at 2250-2300 level. Here are raw clips, uncut of real match. Start at 2.40 - I started using no spin/underspin serve and took control of this match from this point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDHNt-gCZ80 Took many easy points from "simple" serves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZAix3DQ24
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
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Wow - I used to play with Visco (loved it) and speed-glued Mark V (also loved it). If what you are writing is correct, you'll see one giddy guy out on the circuit.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I also loved Visco, especially on my BH. The thing is, I used it in the 90s, so who knows if my memory is correct.
However, that feeling of being able to cope with pretty much anything while still being able to attack effectively (which is what I had with glued Visco) is also what I get with Karis M. NL described it as "Neo In the Matrix". That's is the kind of confidence it gives me. Almost certainly the way Karis achieves this is completely different, and of course I used Visco with 38 mm balls with speed glue. I have to go back even further to when I used Mark V. High school. Surbek was in his prime, and speed gluing was still a Hungarian secret. But Visco is the one thing that comes to mind in terms of the mental state Karis gives me while I'm playing. As for spin on serves, I generate as much as ever with Karis, but I never find that too rubber-dependent. I need to spend some time to adapt more to maintain my very long serves, though. With Karis, they are a touch too short. |
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Magic_M
Platinum Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2220 |
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Today I also received my Karis rubbers. Shipping from Korea was not really cheap (21€), but crazy fast. Only 3 (working-) days from Nexy head quater to my home. Seems to be a kind of express-delivery.
Now my question: which kind of blade fits best to Karis M/M+ ? My impression from the first reviews: the blade should be clear Off. But which outer veneer fits the best? The softer limba or koto? Composite or all wood blade? Edited by Magic_M - 01/16/2017 at 4:27pm |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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My sheets of Karis arrived today. Strangely, my sheet of Karis M+ Black 2.2mm is about 4mm shorter in height and width than the Karis M Red 2.0mm. These sheets obviously share much superficially with other recent Made In Japan rubbers. Here is a picture of (top to bottom): Karis M+ Black 2.2 (67.61g weight) Karis M Red 2.0 (59.88g weight) Airoc M Red 1.9 Samba 19 Red 1.9 I enjoyed using Airoc M when it first came out on my BH side, but its odd shiny topsheet didn't suit my brushy FH at all. Most of what I liked about it came from the sponge - it's really interesting in comparison with many other porous sponges. If you detach the topsheet from the sponge (from a cut-off obviously), the sponge doesn't have huge elastic strength but it does stretch on and on for a long time before it breaks. Unlike most ESN and tenergy sponges which feel brittle in comparison and break up easily. It gives a very smooth feel - no unexpected jumpiness, very linear delivery. Airoc's downside for me was that topsheet - better than Calibra Tour for sure, but it just wasn't spinny enough for me in comparison with other options. This suits other players more of course, but not for me. The Samba 19 had a different topsheet feel and was more matte and had some better early grab, but had a grainy, rough texture which reminds me of budget rubbers (it actually reminded me of Joola Zack's topsheet in many ways, and I don't mean in a good way). Top-end spin was poor on that one. And here comes Karis. These sponges are all good IMO, and bring some interesting qualities - all it needs to do is bring better topsheet grip and I'm sold. Early signs (by finger-poking only so far) are good, and I'm looking forward to giving them a proper run-out. The pips definitely look very short in comparison with the others (and with most rubbers in general), and the topsheet material looks much improved (no plastic-y initial slip like Airoc, a very smooth texture unlike Samba). So it's all positive so far. I'll be back with at-the-table impressions as soon as I can.
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Gauguin123
Beginner Joined: 05/23/2014 Location: B.C. Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Just got my M & M+ rubbers today, both in MAX thickness!!!! As a few members mentioned already, surface seems similar to Joola Rhythm, Xiom Vega II or Yasaka Mark V but with different sponge layer. My initial set up will be on a Stiga Rosewood NCT V, Karis-M on Forehand and Karis-M+ on Backhand at 179 g, before trying them on the RubiCon and Primorac Carbon. I used Elmer's Rubber Cement as glue, knowingly that is recommended to use water based glue applying it in thin layer, but wanted to try it with what I normally use as glue anyway. I did noticed some reduction in size by contractions, so maybe wait a few minutes before cutting it would be best...
Jan. 18th - Just have my first practice with Karis M and M+ on a Stiga Rosewood V, the pop sound that produced remind me of Tibhar Nimbus. The set-up was on the heavy side at 182.8 g, feel that need more time to figure them out, so far 8.2 in Speed, 8.7 in Spin and 2.9 & 2.2 in tackiness... A bit overly sensitive to incoming spin on M+... Jan. 22nd - Karis M & M+ paired w/ Primorac Carbon at 182.3 g!! Definitely a faster combination than w/ Stiga Rosewood, a better set up for mid distance from the table, the Carbon layer help giving that extra gear on the Rubbers, good control for short games and pushes, will keep same set up for another practice... Jan. 25th - On today practice, I have had a better idea on using Karis on my Primorac Carbon, is turned out that M+ worked best on my Forehand and M on my Backhand. M + helped my Forehand attack from short games, smash, and mid distance loops. While Karis M on my Backhand was more control on the slower pace, best for re directing incoming loops and counter-attack... Feb. 1st - Next set-up with be Andro Plasma and Karis M on Primorac Carbon at 175.9 g!!! After today practice, there were not a big difference with Karis M+ and M on Primorac Carbon compare to Plasma plus Karis M, both set ups worked fine on blocking and mid distance loops, very controllable to incoming side spin balls. Personally, I like both Karis rubbers on the Carbon blade so far. Feb. 5th to 12th - Up next 5 practice with Nexy RubiCon with Nexy Karis M+ and M at 179.4 g!!! After a few practice with this set ups, I have M+ on my backhand which was generally consistence on defensive plays, specially on block shots!!!! Also liked it on flips and backhand smashes. While I find it Karis M all right on my forehand, I would have prefered Karis M+ also in my forehand or another Tension Rubbers instead!!!! CONCLUSION: I have had the Nexy Karis M and M+ for almost a months now, tried a numbers of blades and rubbers combinations as well on about 10 practice sections. My best set up would be the Nexy RubiCon with Tenergy 05 FX and Karis M+, excellence in short blocks for counter attacks, mid distance loops and smashes. The Nexy Karis M and M+ are a good options for a recreational and developing player like myself, and would totally recommend them to others players. Only wish that the price would be closer in the US $ 40 range. Finally, I would like to extend my thank you to Nexy and Member arg0 for organizing this testing event!!!! Many thanks... Side note: Also want to mention that I am just a recreational player over the past 5 years, some time playing 2 - 3 days per week at about 2 1/2 hours per section. My game based on 3rd Ball attack and close to 1.5 m away from the table. Not rank anywhere and do not participate in competitions of any kind, really practice Table Tennis for fun and exercise at 45+ years old !!! Edited by Gauguin123 - 02/12/2017 at 10:05pm |
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Primorac Carbon FL
FH: Andro Plasma (B) BH: Xiom Vega II (R) |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I know you are a blade expert but Baal likes Koto, I like limba. You figure it out and let us know.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I have no idea what blade you should use. I don't know if I like koto better than limba because I don't pay much attention to woods in blades I try. I know that the blades I like (Viscaria and its cousins) are koto blades. I like those better than Maze, but may that is the handle more than anything else. I certainly like composite blades -- for the most part. Some are too fast, and I have an old Hans Alser Stiga Offensive from the 80s that is amazing.
Seriously, unless you want to know about the subtle differences between various Viscaria-like blades, don't ask me about blades. I just don't know anywhere as much as a lot of people here. But I do like Karis M on my ALC blades, which are on the high end of OFF or the low end of OFF+. Maybe over time, as I get more accustomed to Karis, I may try gradually trying slightly slower blades too. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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The rubbers and blade in action...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqm2Ehi3a6c
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Reaper
Super Member Joined: 01/11/2016 Location: Colombia Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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You applied the glue and the rubber shrunk? how is that possible?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Applied glue and rubber shrank? Weird, but then again, Gauguin used a glue not widely used these days for TT.
I applied water-based glue (Butterfly Free Chack II) to rubber and blade (ZJK-ALC). Two coats on each. I let the glue dry completely on blade and rubber (until it is colorless). I then attached rubber to blade without using any real pressure, making sure to not stretch rubber. I then trimmed the rubber (I like to use carpet pad shears). There has been no sign of shrinking at all. None. The rubber is completely flat on the blade, and it is unusually easy to cut (compared to wide pored sponges like Tenergy or MX-P). Elmer's contact cement, which Gauguin used, is different from normal table tennis water-based latex glues. You can find the Manufacturer's safety data sheet here for that glue: http://elmers.com/docs/default-source/sds's-(safety-data-sheets)/se1014.pdf?sfvrsn=2 That shows that the glue contains methyl ethyl ketone, acetone, and xylenes! So it is rich in VOCs and therefore it is not surprising that the rubber reacts in unexpected ways. With WBG I have not experienced any shrinkage on the blade. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I still wonder sometimes why people like to be cheap about table tennis glue but I will not dwell on it.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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You can get almost all the same results with Donic Varioclean. And you don't need to leave it out a full night either.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Gauguin123
Beginner Joined: 05/23/2014 Location: B.C. Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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It just happen that in the Club I practice over the past 5 years, everybody used Rubber Cement for gluing, so, I just follow the trend!!!! We are not professional players, and only a few of those are in the Top 150 in the Quebec Provincial Ranking and participate in competitions. I tested over 50 blades and rubbers, so, I was constantly switching them, it is cheap as some mentioned, and re gluing is easy. The rubbers shrank just a bit, maybe because they were new or I pressed the roller a bit too hard!!! I guess we can use any glue that we want to right??? Or did I commit a crime in here...BTW, thanks Baal for the precise explanation!!!!! Also curious that if there are over 300 millions people worldwide who practice TT, how many use Rubber Cement or similar products instead of Water Based Glue...
Edited by Gauguin123 - 01/19/2017 at 10:06pm |
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Primorac Carbon FL
FH: Andro Plasma (B) BH: Xiom Vega II (R) |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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No, you didn't commit a crime. You only got what you asked for. And I have played around with 4 sheets of M and 4 sheets of M+ - I have never even felt they were capable of shrinking, though I am obviously biased.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Over the course of a year, modern rubbers cost more than my blades. So, I figure, when two sheets of Karis cost $100 plus shipping (more than my DTC), I want to get the best possible result gluing them down. I am not going to take any risks with glue and so I use a WBG I am familiar with and that I know is easy to use -- my favorites are Free Chack II or Finezip. (I am sure Vario Clean is fine too, along with other glues). By contrast, Tearmender is tricky in my experience (and time consuming to get it right). There a gazillions of Tearmender threads, so no need to rehash. The thing is, it is similar to TT glue, but the formula was definitely not optimized for that purpose.
I want glues that are very consistent in their behavior. Free Chack 2 is really easy. Two coats on rubber and blade, attach, that's it. Always works. Never a problem. For me personally, getting the rubber off the back of a rubber is not so important. Tearmender in my experience doesn't behave consistently, you need to apply a lot of coats, you need to worry about it drying too fast, clumping, etc. etc. and it just doesn't justify the savings, since TT glue is not really that expensive. I know some people like Tearmender, but I decided a long time ago that it's just not worth the trouble or risk of a poor and uneven attachment. If you are really worried about getting glue off of the rubber, I suggest Revolution 3 (still a bit time consuming, but very consistent result). One thing to keep in mind is that these new rubbers like Karis were certainly not designed with VOC glue in mind (like rubber cements), so how they will react to those solvents is pretty unpredictable. So Gauguin, I don't think you did anything wrong or illegal or anything, but because of the glue you used, your results will not be typical. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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One nice thing about Karis is it is actually a lot easier to attach to a blade than Tenergy or MX-P, and I think you can get away with a much more liquid glue. That in turn may be useful to know for people testing this new Nexy blade with the fragile top ply.
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Any one experience lot of dust on rubber after playing for a while ???
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I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Hmm. Not more than usual, or at least it didn't catch my attention. I will try to pay attention tonight.
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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I've been playing with M+/M combination for about a month, and haven't noticed anything unusual, either way, relative to other inverted rubbers I've used in the past in how dust accumulates on Karis
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99% practice
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Definitely no dust issues. I clean the rubbers because I can see the dust but not because there is more of it.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Another observation. Karis performs well in exceptionally high humidity, like today at my club in Houston.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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It is not about cost - it is about absolute ease of use and consistency. How do you apply it? I use this and it works fine: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BMGAFI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I have no problems paying more for branded glue - I have 2 tubes of Nittaku Finezip that shall stay unused. I tried it and went back to TM. Finezip takes small bits of sponge out when you remove rubber from blade. I don't get the 'too many layers bit'. Nowadays, even on Spruce outer blades, I use max 2 thin layers of TM on blade and 2 thin layers on sponge. That is not too much. The keys are:
That is all. Works like a charm. |
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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For the majority here for whom Karis is the final answer, Apparently some top CNT guys have adopted it as well (Fang Bo and Yan An).
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Have you used Karis, slevin?
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Not for me [Tearmender]. I am not opposed to paying less. I just had too many bad glue jobs with that stuff. That's really all I can say. I don't think I am unusually bad at gluing rubber but at one point I just said, enough is enough. I'm not a bit rubber changer or tester (I'm really not much of an EJ for quite a few years now). I just want the glue to optimize the properties of expensive rubber that I do use. I personally don't care if the glue ever comes off the sponge afterwords. As for Raksa X, I can't comment. I've never tried it. I am not as good as guys on CNT (!!!!), so their choices may not work as well for me. Maybe it is awesome, I have no idea. I can say, as a guy that has used Tenergy or MX-P on ALC blades for over a decade, and who speed glued Bryce back in that era --- Karis M is not too slow on the blades I use. I really did not expect to like Karis. But I like it more each time I use it. I would suggest to people who are used to Tenergy etc. that they give Karis a week of play before making any decision. I liked it even the first time I used it, but I did have to make some adjustments. |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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I use tearmender for putting on test rackets and donic blue contact for my regular paddle. The reason being tearmender is the easiest to remove from the rubbers, however the bond is pretty weak and starts falling off in 2 weeks, I haven't tried multiple coats, it seems like it's tough to get that right. |
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