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Pushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Topic: Pushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)
Posted By: Pushblocker
Subject: Pushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 7:42am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AbZlxvuzIw -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AbZlxvuzIw
 
 
This was a match at the 2010 NA Teams between me and a strong Korean player.. (estimated 2550 rating)
 
 


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand



Replies:
Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 8:12am
Awesome video Oliver! Thanks for sharing it, I will be studying it.


Posted By: Derf59
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 8:55am
Pushblocker, I think you should change your blade (Firewall+) to an other (TSP Toccata Def ou Dr Neubauer Bulldog). You make a lot of mistakes due to this combo.


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:03am
that kid was not even trying!


Posted By: stereotip
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:16am
His game without forehand is very boring. 


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:44am
Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Pushblocker, I think you should change your blade (Firewall+) to an other (TSP Toccata Def ou Dr Neubauer Bulldog). You make a lot of mistakes due to this combo.
I'm pretty happy with my combo.. I make mistakes as I try to push very hard and sometimes I miss the table. Against players of that level, I need to be aggressive with my pips or otherwise they'll kill me..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: GSP-glamour
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:44am
Hey !

Seems like that Korean player can play more effective ,but       shows no big wish to play . Impolite behavior however.

Wish you luck !Smile

    

-------------
You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:47am
Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

His game without forehand is very boring. 
 
So, only forehand dominated styles are acceptable??
 
I wonder what  your playing level is and if you would be able to beat that boring style that I'm playing..
90+% of the guys criticizing my style would probably make less than 5 points per game against me.. LOL


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:50am
oliver you are my hero, playing 100% regardless of cocky players who play 50%.
you are the true defintion of blue collar table tennis.

i played at a very late age, no coaching, but still surviving!


-------------
i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy



Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:57am
Originally posted by theman theman wrote:

oliver you are my hero, playing 100% regardless of cocky players who play 50%.
you are the true defintion of blue collar table tennis.

i played at a very late age, no coaching, but still surviving!
I never had any formal coaching.. I'm a self tought player and there are very few that have gotten above 2200 that way.. I'm proud of what I have accomplished.. I did play for a while but I never learned table tennis correctly. I developed my own style and it seems to be fairly effective!


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: stereotip
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:57am
  No offense, but you make points only becouse your backhand rubber is deceptive.. No skills in your game.  


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:57am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

His game without forehand is very boring. 
 
So, only forehand dominated styles are acceptable??
 
I wonder what  your playing level is and if you would be able to beat that boring style that I'm playing..
90+% of the guys criticizing my style would probably make less than 5 points per game against me.. LOL


This is true.


@people saying cho wasn't trying - no, he wasn't. Quite frankly, it wasn't necessary for him because of his level, and though it may seem rude, I'm sure he was only concerned about saving energy for the more intense matches. Also, some may find it rude to completely rip the person by going 100% when its not necessary.


Posted By: stereotip
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:58am
 
Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

No offense, but you make points only becouse your backhand rubber is deceptive. No skills in your game.


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:59am
Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

No offense, but you make points only becouse your backhand rubber is deceptio. No skills in your game.


Only backhand rubber?

Stick a long pip rubber on a table alone and see how many points it wins Clap


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:03am
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

His game without forehand is very boring. 
 
So, only forehand dominated styles are acceptable??
 
I wonder what  your playing level is and if you would be able to beat that boring style that I'm playing..
90+% of the guys criticizing my style would probably make less than 5 points per game against me.. LOL


This is true.


@people saying cho wasn't trying - no, he wasn't. Quite frankly, it wasn't necessary for him because of his level, and though it may seem rude, I'm sure he was only concerned about saving energy for the more intense matches. Also, some may find it rude to completely rip the person by going 100% when its not necessary.
 
It's a boring match. Cho is not even trying and Pushblocker makes to much mistakes. What's the use of this video?


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:03am
Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

  No offense, but you make points only becouse your backhand rubber is deceptive.. No skills in your game.  
 
Deceptive?? Long pips are just as predictable as regular rubbers. However, they react DIFFERENT than inverted. NO rubber is unpredictable. If you play the same stroke against the same spin, the result will ALWAYS be the same.. That goes for all rubbers..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Vladovich
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:03am
Why the Korean made so many unforced errors, when balls didn't look so difficult, it looks like there were no lot of backspin, nor variation in the spin, better footwork and some more consistent topsins with  more rotation of the torso would do the work for the Korean. 
Sorry, I always cheer for more offensive player :D


-------------
Tibhar Defense Plus

FH: Joola Phenix

BH: Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.5mm



"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be…unnatural."


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:05am
Skyline, if you find it boring, don't watch, simple.

Are there supposed to be "a use" to every video? Maybe he felt like watching his match Shocked

Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Why the Korean made so many unforced errors, when balls didn't look so difficult, it looks like there were no lot of backspin, nor variation in the spin, better footwork and some more consistent topsins with  more rotation of the torso would do the work for the Korean. 
Sorry, I always cheer for more offensive player :D


Because its more deceptive at the table than on video.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:07am
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

His game without forehand is very boring. 
 
So, only forehand dominated styles are acceptable??
 
I wonder what  your playing level is and if you would be able to beat that boring style that I'm playing..
90+% of the guys criticizing my style would probably make less than 5 points per game against me.. LOL


This is true.


@people saying cho wasn't trying - no, he wasn't. Quite frankly, it wasn't necessary for him because of his level, and though it may seem rude, I'm sure he was only concerned about saving energy for the more intense matches. Also, some may find it rude to completely rip the person by going 100% when its not necessary.
I've taken players of that level to 5 games before. Had Geovanny Coello (2521 rated at the time) 2:0 in games and lost close, 11:8 in the fifth. Had Yosmely Vadillo (2009 Badger Open 4* Tournament winner and mid to upper 2400's rated) 2:1 this year and lost 11:8 in the fifth against him. I have beaten a 2500 player in training and other 2400 players before.  Because of my style, players tend to underestimate me but most players are fooled by the way my style looks.. The kid played it fairly safe as it was difficult for him to play a power game against my style.. My style is FEEDING off my opponents power. The more power I get, the more effective my game. Playing it slower and controlled is THE strategy against my style.. Wild attacks would have lost him the match.
Those 2400 - 2500 players who beat me were losing when power looping.. They ended up beating me because they slowed down their game..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: stereotip
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:08am
I'm not from English language are, so maybe my post is lost in translation.  I want to say that his game is very simple and points  that he wins is only based on deception  of his rubber.  


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:08am
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Skyline, if you find it boring, don't watch, simple.

Are there supposed to be "a point" to every video? Maybe he felt like watching his match Shocked

Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Why the Korean made so many unforced errors, when balls didn't look so difficult, it looks like there were no lot of backspin, nor variation in the spin, better footwork and some more consistent topsins with  more rotation of the torso would do the work for the Korean. 
Sorry, I always cheer for more offensive player :D


Because its more deceptive at the table than on video.
 
I actually expected a serious match. Not some cocky top player fooling around with pushblocker.


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Skyline, if you find it boring, don't watch, simple.

Are there supposed to be "a point" to every video? Maybe he felt like watching his match Shocked

Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Why the Korean made so many unforced errors, when balls didn't look so difficult, it looks like there were no lot of backspin, nor variation in the spin, better footwork and some more consistent topsins with  more rotation of the torso would do the work for the Korean. 
Sorry, I always cheer for more offensive player :D


Because its more deceptive at the table than on video.
 
I actually expected a serious match. Not some cocky top player fooling around with pushblocker.



Good point stereo, we offensive players only win points because of the speed and spin of ours Clap


Again Skyline, the guy wasn't cocky, he just didn't go 100% because he had to save energy for other matches and didn't need to. I don't see him doing anything else that seems unsportsmanlike.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:18am
Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!

-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!


I'm not a hater LOL

Matter fact I kind of like this...people like stereotip who say you only win because of your deception and then has no response to me saying that offensive players only win because of their rubbers' spins and speeds. People can suck with long pips, I don't see why people see it as an unfair advantage instead of just another type of weapon.

But its the same clueless people who obsess about "throw angles", every .1 degree of sponge hardness, and other unimportant stuff that don't realize that the return seems alot easier to make when you're behind the keyboard instead of behind the table.


Posted By: Vladovich
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:25am
Yes, there is nothing more annoying for me than hitting of the table or into the net against something that looks to me as easy ball to kill. And when I get frustrated, I am just playing worse, and loose the game at the end Angry.

-------------
Tibhar Defense Plus

FH: Joola Phenix

BH: Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.5mm



"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be…unnatural."


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:25am
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!


I'm not a hater LOL

Matter fact I kind of like this...people like stereotip who say you only win because of your deception and then has no response to me saying that offensive players only win because of their rubbers' spins and speeds. People can suck with long pips, I don't see why people see it as an unfair advantage instead of just another type of weapon.

But its the same clueless people who obsess about "throw angles", every .1 degree of sponge hardness, and other unimportant stuff that don't realize that the return seems alot easier to make when you're behind the keyboard instead of behind the table.
 
I wasn't refering to you!


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:28am
Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Yes, there is nothing more annoying for me than hitting of the table or into the net against something that looks to me as easy ball to kill. And when I get frustrated, I am just playing worse, and loose the game at the end Angry.


Looks like you need to broaden your skills.


I know pushblocker, just rantin'



Posted By: Vladovich
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:30am
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Yes, there is nothing more annoying for me than hitting of the table or into the net against something that looks to me as easy ball to kill. And when I get frustrated, I am just playing worse, and loose the game at the end Angry.


Looks like you need to broaden your skills.




Yes, I am working on it Geek.


-------------
Tibhar Defense Plus

FH: Joola Phenix

BH: Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.5mm



"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be…unnatural."


Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:49am
It was interesting watching the different reactions from each of you during the match.  
He was quite reserved and cocky.
You on the other hand did a fist pump and/or a yell after every point you won.
You treated it like a championship match and he treated it like any other match.

All that being said, you play a very solid, albeit unorthodox, game and it works quite well against a ton of players.  It would work against me as I'm not consistent enough.

I think if you worked in an occasional forehand you would do even better against players of this caliber.  As you said the way these guys beat you is by slowing down the game.  Your opponent didn't seem worried about leaving a ball too high because you showed that you would continue to push instead of trying to finish the point.   If you could reliably forehand smash one of those high balls, they would have to work a little harder to keep the ball down thus making it a little more likely that they'll make a mistake.

 


Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:55am
It might look like Cho was not trying, but I think he was playing a perfect game.  It may not show on the video, but in reality it is very hard to play against player like Pushblocker, to win you must consistently keeps the pressure on, and that is hard.  The moment you smelled blood, and went for a kill, it might be your own blood that you smelled Smile.  Notice that Pushblocker can block the ball back at almost the same constant speed, regardless of how fast or slow it was thrown at him, this break up the tempo of the attacker, and is very hard to deal with.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:58am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

It was interesting watching the different reactions from each of you during the match.  
He was quite reserved and cocky.
You on the other hand did a fist pump and/or a yell after every point you won.
You treated it like a championship match and he treated it like any other match.

All that being said, you play a very solid, albeit unorthodox, game and it works quite well against a ton of players.  It would work against me as I'm not consistent enough.

I think if you worked in an occasional forehand you would do even better against players of this caliber.  As you said the way these guys beat you is by slowing down the game.  Your opponent didn't seem worried about leaving a ball too high because you showed that you would continue to push instead of trying to finish the point.   If you could reliably forehand smash one of those high balls, they would have to work a little harder to keep the ball down thus making it a little more likely that they'll make a mistake.

 
 
You are 100% right about using my forehand.. I need to work on that but the problem is that at the clubs that I play, we only play matches and no time to drill..
I usually do extremely well against very powerful players and much worse against control, slow looping players.. My best wins were all over power-loopers and my worst losses to players of slower offensive styles or other unusual styles.  If I would only play against power-loopers, I would probably be rated well into the 2300's but unfortunately, only a small part of my opponents play the real power game..
My worst loss at the Teams was against a slow looping player from Colorado (Wallace Liu) who pushed and slow looped for the entire match to beat me 15:13 in game 5...
Looked at his results and he also beat another top long pips blocker a couple years ago.. (Robert Shahnazari), so he knows exactly what to do atainst that style.. He said that they have tons of long pips blockers at his club and he plays against that style all the time..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Derf59
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Pushblocker, I think you should change your blade (Firewall+) to an other (TSP Toccata Def ou Dr Neubauer Bulldog). You make a lot of mistakes due to this combo.
I'm pretty happy with my combo.. I make mistakes as I try to push very hard and sometimes I miss the table. Against players of that level, I need to be aggressive with my pips or otherwise they'll kill me..

I write this because it's not easy to use Firewall+ and GDT.
The big balsa ply of the Firewall+ catapult too much with the GDT.
So sometimes the ball fly over the table.

You should try a blade more "hard" and without balsa.
Carbon blade is very efficient with GDT because you keep a low trajectory ;)




Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Pushblocker, I think you should change your blade (Firewall+) to an other (TSP Toccata Def ou Dr Neubauer Bulldog). You make a lot of mistakes due to this combo.
I'm pretty happy with my combo.. I make mistakes as I try to push very hard and sometimes I miss the table. Against players of that level, I need to be aggressive with my pips or otherwise they'll kill me..

I write this because it's not easy to use Firewall+ and GDT.
The big balsa ply of the Firewall+ catapult too much with the GDT.
So sometimes the ball fly over the table.

You should try a blade more "hard" and without balsa.
Carbon blade is very efficient with GDT because you keep a low trajectory ;)


 
My DTecs is slower as I removed the glue sheet.. Without the tension on the rubber, the rubber is only half the speed.. I pushed long many times because I was pushing too hard. I personally don't like blades that feel "Hard" and are heavy. I'm not comfortable with any blades over 85 grams.. I prefer blades that weight less than 70 grams. The trajectory on the DTecS with the Firewall plus is fairly low.. Had no problems with that.. I actually have another sheet of DTecS on the same blade with even lower trajectory. However, I tend to put a lot of shots into the net with it..  The only difference between those 2 sheets of DTecS is that one of them had the sponge removed and one of them had the glue sheet removed.. I like the one with removed glue sheet better. I will check the Dr. Neubauer Bulldog to see if it's something that I can play with and I'll let you know!


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:07am
Unless your club matches affect your rating or are against other clubs, you can work on your forehand during the match.  The worst thing that happens is that you lose.  Which is more important:  winning a meaningless match in the club or working to make yourself better?

One day at my club I used only 1 serve because I wanted to work on it and the response to that specific service return.  I lost more matches than usual that day, but I like to think it helped my game in the long run.


Posted By: ztec
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:18am
You've probably been asked this before Pushblocker, but how does your style match up against good short pips players? I may be mistaken but your game thrives off inverted players who may not have the discipline to consistently execute again and again, do short pips give you more trouble?




Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:21am
Nice match, I liked it. Pretty good scores against the Korean. Your teammates are quite hilarious, maybe they distracted you in the end. 


Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:22am
To add to ztec's question, what happens when you play another long pips blocker?  I'd imagine it would be a very boring match to watch.


Posted By: tablet92
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:11pm
Maybe it's just me but you sound very arrogant... :( And be proud of playing close sets against this guy then from his body language is very clear that he was just fooling around... 


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Unless your club matches affect your rating or are against other clubs, you can work on your forehand during the match.  The worst thing that happens is that you lose.  Which is more important:  winning a meaningless match in the club or working to make yourself better?

One day at my club I used only 1 serve because I wanted to work on it and the response to that specific service return.  I lost more matches than usual that day, but I like to think it helped my game in the long run.
Well, the problem at the club is that you have to get back in line when you lose but you stay on the table if you win.. Usually, there is only one table on which the good players play and if I'll lose, I'll have to wait for 30 minutes to play again.. If I win, I get to play tons of matches.. I usually spend 2 - 3 hours at the club.. I recently won almost all my matches and get a actual playing time of 2- 3 hours.. IF I lose, I might get about 20 minutes of playing time..  We usually have 4+ players waiting on the table with the good players.

-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by ztec ztec wrote:

You've probably been asked this before Pushblocker, but how does your style match up against good short pips players? I may be mistaken but your game thrives off inverted players who may not have the discipline to consistently execute again and again, do short pips give you more trouble?


 
I used to have a problem against it.. Some of my best wins are against short pips. Beat Thomas Yu, Thor Truelson and several other short pips players lately. In the final of Div 5, I played a short pips hitter rated in the 2000's (and might even get adjusted as he had a GREAT tournament) and beat him 3:0.  The key against short pips is NOT to give the opponent short and high balls.. I try to push low and deep and it seems to work great!


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Nice match, I liked it. Pretty good scores against the Korean. Your teammates are quite hilarious, maybe they distracted you in the end. 
We had a lot of fun against the A-Team.. We were joking around as we really didn't take the match seriousely as we knew that we will very likely lose 5:0, so we just had fun. I did NOT expect to get that many points off the guy..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

To add to ztec's question, what happens when you play another long pips blocker?  I'd imagine it would be a very boring match to watch.
 
I do EXTREMELY well against other long pips blockers as all I'm doing is to give them dead balls into their pips and try to outlast them and wait for their mistake.. I usually outlast them as they lose their patience and attack and miss..
 
My recent results against long pips blockers (all at the club)..
 
Played Robert Shahnazari 3 times at his club (Grace Lin) this year  in California and beat him: 3:0, 3:1 and 3:2
Played Duc Loi (2214 rated long pips blocker) at his club (LATTA) this year in California and beat him 3:0
 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Well, the problem at the club is that you have to get back in line when you lose but you stay on the table if you win.. Usually, there is only one table on which the good players play and if I'll lose, I'll have to wait for 30 minutes to play again.. If I win, I get to play tons of matches.. I usually spend 2 - 3 hours at the club.. I recently won almost all my matches and get a actual playing time of 2- 3 hours.. IF I lose, I might get about 20 minutes of playing time..  We usually have 4+ players waiting on the table with the good players.

That's why the club I'm at has a rule that you play 2 matches win or lose (except if it's the 1st match for both players in which case winner stays on).  It spreads out the table time and gives you more variety in opponents.  Using this method, everyone has a chance to improve their game because they don't have to worry about their playing time.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Well, the problem at the club is that you have to get back in line when you lose but you stay on the table if you win.. Usually, there is only one table on which the good players play and if I'll lose, I'll have to wait for 30 minutes to play again.. If I win, I get to play tons of matches.. I usually spend 2 - 3 hours at the club.. I recently won almost all my matches and get a actual playing time of 2- 3 hours.. IF I lose, I might get about 20 minutes of playing time..  We usually have 4+ players waiting on the table with the good players.

That's why the club I'm at has a rule that you play 2 matches win or lose (except if it's the 1st match for both players in which case winner stays on).  It spreads out the table time and gives you more variety in opponents.  Using this method, everyone has a chance to improve their game because they don't have to worry about their playing time.
Unfortunately, we don't have the rules except for the tables with the weaker players.. At the Tampa Club, the front 3 tables (where the good players usually play) are winner stays and the rear 3 tables are 2 wins max... However, there usually aren't too many quality opponents.. I hardly lose any matches at the club at the tables with the good players, so playing with the weaker players would be boring.


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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: melarimsa
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:05pm
Overall great match Oliver.

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http://www.youtube.com/100NiTenis" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/100NiTenis



Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:24pm
Nice game Pushblocker, thanks for the vid.
1. You seem tense and trying too hard, that is why you made a lot of mistakes. You even missed a few serves, which is vital, especially when the games are tight like the 2nd set. Win one and you will wipe that cocky smile from his face.. Evil Smile
And you misread quite a few serves there because you over eager to return the ball as soon as you can and not try to read the spin he put on his serves.
2. You need a plan B, when you plan A does not work. The plan B should be occasional FH that can make your opponents worry. Playing with pips will get you a lot of attackable ball, but with your style that take the ball really early sometimes it's hard to switch your play to FH, because of your standing position (mostly your right leg is in front). Maybe you can work on a few attackable serves to surprise your opponent, some floats or side top serve will be useful. Another way is to give a ball to one side than quick ball to the other side (one to the short FH, then a quick one deep to the BH), then step around to hit a FH.

I think you might beat me, that will depends on how I can adapt to your quick blocks. but most probably I will score more than five.. LOL


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655H3PClassicAcudaS1
'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody'


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Nice game Pushblocker, thanks for the vid.
1. You seem tense and trying too hard, that is why you made a lot of mistakes. You even missed a few serves, which is vital, especially when the games are tight like the 2nd set. Win one and you will wipe that cocky smile from his face.. Evil Smile
And you misread quite a few serves there because you over eager to return the ball as soon as you can and not try to read the spin he put on his serves.
2. You need a plan B, when you plan A does not work. The plan B should be occasional FH that can make your opponents worry. Playing with pips will get you a lot of attackable ball, but with your style that take the ball really early sometimes it's hard to switch your play to FH, because of your standing position (mostly your right leg is in front). Maybe you can work on a few attackable serves to surprise your opponent, some floats or side top serve will be useful. Another way is to give a ball to one side than quick ball to the other side (one to the short FH, then a quick one deep to the BH), then step around to hit a FH.

I think you might beat me, that will depends on how I can adapt to your quick blocks. but most probably I will score more than five.. LOL
The higher the level of player that I'm up against, the more risky I have to play. If I give him a slower push or block, he'd kill it. I missed too many serves as I misread them. He had lots of sidespin on some of them. Sometimes he'd serve dead and I'd block long. My positioning is the reason why my blocks are so effective as I'm lined up perfectly for those blocks. To play forehand, I have to turn 180 degrees which is difficult, especially when you have to do it quickly.. I do prefer to attack from the backhand by twiddling to inverted. I usually don't make this amount of unforced errors but I did have to keep my pushes long, low and deep to keep him in check..


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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:40pm
Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?

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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P


Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

It might look like Cho was not trying, but I think he was playing a perfect game.  It may not show on the video, but in reality it is very hard to play against player like Pushblocker, to win you must consistently keeps the pressure on, and that is hard.  The moment you smelled blood, and went for a kill, it might be your own blood that you smelled Smile.  Notice that Pushblocker can block the ball back at almost the same constant speed, regardless of how fast or slow it was thrown at him, this break up the tempo of the attacker, and is very hard to deal with.

You got it perfect. Cho was playing very intensely. He had to keep himself very relaxed in order to fight his natural inclination to get into playing a more attacking game. 

This is what Oliver wanted:

Pushblocker said "I usually do extremely well against very powerful players and much worse against control, slow looping players.. My best wins were all over power-loopers and my worst losses to players of slower offensive styles or other unusual styles."  

It's a good lesson in how to play LP blockers. Cho looks very young and it's typical of the tactics that good juniors/young players of that standard use against 'pushblockers'.


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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V


Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:01pm
BTW, Oliver, was anyone in your team from the Caribbean? I think I detected a bit of an accent.

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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

BTW, Oliver, was anyone in your team from the Caribbean? I think I detected a bit of an accent.
 
My teammate Errol Lattiosh is of Jamaican heritage!!  He has been in Florida for about 10 years..
It was the 2nd time that we played together on a Team.. In 2001 we made it to Division 3 Final where we lost..


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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:25pm
I figured so when I heard the 'Yah, Man!" at the start.

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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V


Posted By: cls2222
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:28pm
Playing power against a LP blocker requires one shot kills with great placement, which is only if you want to play power. If the Korean would of tried to attack everything, he would have a lot of trouble if the ball came back to him with reversed spin right away. It looks like he is not trying, but playing power is not what you do against LP players, especially since they won't try to kill a shot that you may place long or high every time. I know 1900 level "pushblockers" who beat 2200 rated juniors just because they put the ball back on the table and wait for the junior to try to kill it.


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Korbel
Stiga Boost TX   



Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:46pm
The worst loss that I"ve ever had was against a well coached player from the Domincan Republic. The guy was only mid 2400's rated but he made me look like a abolute beginner. His coach is a very strong long pips player (Carlos Sosa who is still in the 2400's in his 50's).
That guy (Juan Antonio Vila Jr.) made it look like a match between master and student.. He would slow loop with high arch deep into my backhand and kill my return into the forehand and also the other way around. He repeated it over and over again.. He would score at will and never before have I been that helpless in a match. His placement and use of the entire table was PHENOMENAL!! Luckily, most players can't place the ball as well as he does.. Otherwise, I'd be in trouble..


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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Vladovich
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by cls2222 cls2222 wrote:

Playing power against a LP blocker requires one shot kills with great placement, which is only if you want to play power. If the Korean would of tried to attack everything, he would have a lot of trouble if the ball came back to him with reversed spin right away. It looks like he is not trying, but playing power is not what you do against LP players, especially since they won't try to kill a shot that you may place long or high every time. I know 1900 level "pushblockers" who beat 2200 rated juniors just because they put the ball back on the table and wait for the junior to try to kill it.

I think they just have to play smarter, if you make strong fast loop, and he chop it back, then your next shot have to be strong, but slow topspin, more upward then forward movement, and after couple of safe top spin shots you try topspin killer again.


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Tibhar Defense Plus

FH: Joola Phenix

BH: Dr. Neubauer Bison 1.5mm



"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be…unnatural."


Posted By: Ndragon88
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:53pm
I played a medium pips twiddler tuesday night. Didnt twiddle a lot but enough to make sure u watch his bat.

I really hate pips players but i never underestimate them. thats when u are setting urself up for failure. My opponent made me look sh*t. someone watching the game had no idea he was a pips player. They commented to me after how they were wondering why i looked scared to hit the ball or just confused like i was unsure of my shots. When i explained how the pips worked they realised lol. then they watched their daughter play him and get beaten easily.
I just about won 11-8 in the 5th set

He was just able to block things so easily with his bh and could loop the ball with the other rubber if he needed too. I did get frustrated but i had to keep myself together otherwise i would surely have lost.

Believe me guys. Dont underestimate a played like pushblocker. you will be very shocked at how good he is when u play him. or should i say how BAD you are at playing against that style


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Stiga Clipper
Skyline TG3 NEO/Palio Thors
www.youtube.com/ndragon88


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:02pm
There are actually several players on this board who have played me.Hope that they might chime in!!

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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:04pm
 What a great game by Cho Yoon Je! People who say that he is not even trying  don't realise how hard it is to play against players like Mader.

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Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen


Posted By: Heimdallalso
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


Is this our own roundrobin? He must be a skilled attacker. Viva la short-pips.Clap

I never underestimate long-pips players.
My fundamentals are sufficiently lacking as to severely lessen my chances against them.
This refers to sub 2000 guys.
How would I fare against you?
I might get 4 points off you!Embarrassed


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NEXY Lissom st 85g
fh/ Andro Impuls Speed max
bh/ Palio Flying Dragon 1.8


Posted By: cls2222
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Originally posted by cls2222 cls2222 wrote:

Playing power against a LP blocker requires one shot kills with great placement, which is only if you want to play power. If the Korean would of tried to attack everything, he would have a lot of trouble if the ball came back to him with reversed spin right away. It looks like he is not trying, but playing power is not what you do against LP players, especially since they won't try to kill a shot that you may place long or high every time. I know 1900 level "pushblockers" who beat 2200 rated juniors just because they put the ball back on the table and wait for the junior to try to kill it.

I think they just have to play smarter, if you make strong fast loop, and he chop it back, then your next shot have to be strong, but slow topspin, more upward then forward movement, and after couple of safe top spin shots you try topspin killer again.


If you are confident that your loop is more consistent than a block by a pushblocker like Madier, and that you can read the spin coming off his racket, than you can play that way. I know what you mean by playing short strong topspin and then trying a "killer" topspin when you get the chance, but that is a tactic used mostly against LP modern and classic defenders; playing a LP blocker is a completely different game. My view on playing a pushblocker is to place the ball wide to the corners with a controlled loop (not to the middle), which is not necessarily a strong topspin. Once you force the pushblocker to make a weak return, then you can kill it. There is no point to testing the consistency of a pushblocker's block Dead


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Korbel
Stiga Boost TX   



Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by cls2222 cls2222 wrote:

Originally posted by Vladovich Vladovich wrote:

Originally posted by cls2222 cls2222 wrote:

Playing power against a LP blocker requires one shot kills with great placement, which is only if you want to play power. If the Korean would of tried to attack everything, he would have a lot of trouble if the ball came back to him with reversed spin right away. It looks like he is not trying, but playing power is not what you do against LP players, especially since they won't try to kill a shot that you may place long or high every time. I know 1900 level "pushblockers" who beat 2200 rated juniors just because they put the ball back on the table and wait for the junior to try to kill it.

I think they just have to play smarter, if you make strong fast loop, and he chop it back, then your next shot have to be strong, but slow topspin, more upward then forward movement, and after couple of safe top spin shots you try topspin killer again.


If you are confident that your loop is more consistent than a block by a pushblocker like Madier, and that you can read the spin coming off his racket, than you can play that way. I know what you mean by playing short strong topspin and then trying a "killer" topspin when you get the chance, but that is a tactic used mostly against LP modern and classic defenders; playing a LP blocker is a completely different game. My view on playing a pushblocker is to place the ball wide to the corners with a controlled loop (not to the middle), which is not necessarily a strong topspin. Once you force the pushblocker to make a weak return, then you can kill it. There is no point to testing the consistency of a pushblocker's block Dead
 
What many don't realize when they are talking about killing my first return is that my placement is VERY good. I will be able to catch my opponent most of the time out of position for that attack and they will miss many times. People should check my other videos who I'm beating strong players who usually play very well but they look weak against me.. It's very difficult to see what's going on when watching a video. If you are playing yourself people will notice that playing me is not as easy as it seems.. People who don't know me think that I"m about 1700 but I haven't been below 2000 rating since 2001...


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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: ghostzen
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:34pm
Good game to watch. He seems to have the timing and power to loop strongly when needed. Some great blocks off loops mind and good angels. You are right about the all out power not being able to get past you but he picks his balls well. What standard is the other guy?.


Posted By: cls2222
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:36pm
It seems that way too. Not too many people have an idea of how to play pushblockers and think that they should play the same game they use against choppers. An outstanding example is the German girl, "Solja," who destroys a lot of attackers because she can place the ball well with her antispin rubber.


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Korbel
Stiga Boost TX   



Posted By: rustyfo
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:42pm
Haven't read the comments to the thread, but watched most of the video. sh*t man your pushes look f**king brutal - I would really be in trouble against your style - frustration just kicks in so fast as a schooled looping player when you meet someone who just destroys your rhytm like you do. I'm impressed by how calm the Korean dude managed to stay instead of just going for his big forehands, which will definitely have been his main instinct.

The two things that would do wonders for your game are in my opinion:
1. Improve consistency with the backhand - I realise you had to stay agressive because of your opponent being stronger than you, but in any case it's something you need to improve if you wan't to take your game to the next level.
2. After you've pushed deep deep into your opponent's FH, practise counterlooping/blocking his weak/slow diagonal opening loop. This is first of all a much more effective shot instead of stepping way over with your BH-pips, and also it will put you in a much better position when he finally manages to open to your BH corner.
You might/probably know this, but it's important to note that almost all loopers will FH-loop diagonally when under a lot of pressure - like when you push super deep+fast+low to the FH corner, which seems to be your most effective shot.

anyway just my 2cents, hopefully they can be of some use.


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Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha

FH: Tenergy 05

BH: Acuda S1


Posted By: Jonan
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 4:08pm
I'm just beginning to learn the push block and chop block strokes the last couple weeks, I discovered it kinda by accident, just sticking my long pips out there as a reflex and it slid over, but a very effective and important part of pips play to figure out what to do when you cant chop something straight up, so helpful video to try to understand what I'm supposed to be trying to do...

But it's easy to sit here and tell someone why they lost to a pro player, actually keeping the hundreds of little things that can cause you to lose points in check the whole match yourself, thats a whole other matter now isn't it?


Posted By: Metallis
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 4:36pm
I hate pips. They all should be banned. I think table tennis is the only sport that someone can win just because of the equipment hes using. A pip player just stand there returning the ball, they dont even have to move, and still win. Wheres the fun? I rather lose than winning like that.


Posted By: rawrtje
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Metallis Metallis wrote:

I hate pips. They all should be banned. I think table tennis is the only sport that someone can win just because of the equipment hes using. A pip player just stand there returning the ball, they dont even have to move, and still win. Wheres the fun? I rather lose than winning like that.

Have you ever tried playing with pips? Not a stroll in the park, my friend.


Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Metallis Metallis wrote:

I hate pips. They all should be banned. I think table tennis is the only sport that someone can win just because of the equipment hes using. A pip player just stand there returning the ball, they dont even have to move, and still win. Wheres the fun? I rather lose than winning like that.
 Biggest joke around! How about this one:
I hate iverted rubbers. They all should be banned. Table tennis is the only sport where you can win using the advantage of your inverted rubber. An inverted player just stays there and power loops everything. They don't even have to think most of the time. They rely on their equipment to do the job.  Better lose with pimple out rubber than win with inverted.


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Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen


Posted By: LobbedYoud0wn
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Metallis Metallis wrote:

I hate pips. They all should be banned. I think table tennis is the only sport that someone can win just because of the equipment hes using. A pip player just stand there returning the ball, they dont even have to move, and still win. Wheres the fun? I rather lose than winning like that.


Yeah, because you can be suddenly pro with long pips without training with them just as hard as any other player.


Posted By: ghostzen
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 4:48pm
Pimple effects can easily be dealt with if you have the understanding of how the rubber works. It's having a plan to stop them, the pimps player with also have their plan to stop you btw. When you reach a higher level very few players are actually good enough to bank on the pimps winning the match alone. They normally set up a spun or loop drive winner of some kind. certain balls can be difficult for them. it's putting it all together. But ...Pimples are hard to use and even harder to master.


Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:01pm
All I can say 'pushblocker' is how you dream at night your best shots, I mean, I can, we all can remmember our best shots, dissapearing into the void of our oppo
nents gap. How do you dream about your best shots? It surely can't be so satisfying? its all about the oppo making a mistake, You surely can't see what we all do, a winning 'past the opponent' shot, a pure winner, a satifying clean snap, your game is about spoiling, what then gets you off...Just results?   I mean what bit of the beutiful game relly gets you going...............

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The Older I get, The better I was.


Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:18pm
It is perverted to have inverted or extroverted rubber dreams.


Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

All I can say 'pushblocker' is how you dream at night your best shots, I mean, I can, we all can remmember our best shots, dissapearing into the void of our oppo
nents gap. How do you dream about your best shots? It surely can't be so satisfying? its all about the oppo making a mistake, You surely can't see what we all do, a winning 'past the opponent' shot, a pure winner, a satifying clean snap, your game is about spoiling, what then gets you off...Just results?   I mean what bit of the beutiful game relly gets you going...............


People are different. When I recall my good matches, I don't really remember my "superhuman" shots. I just recall general feeling of having fun and enjoying the game itself. I can imagine that Pushblocker gets enough enjoyment out of his style - otherwise I bet he would have switched to table hockey or poker a long time ago.


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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member

Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...


Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Heimdallalso Heimdallalso wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


Is this our own roundrobin? He must be a skilled attacker. Viva la short-pips.Clap

I never underestimate long-pips players.
My fundamentals are sufficiently lacking as to severely lessen my chances against them.
This refers to sub 2000 guys.
How would I fare against you?
I might get 4 points off you!Embarrassed


Olivier visited our club two times... A super nice guy and a true ping pong lover.  He's the kind of guy that if you talk table tennis to him his eyes would light up like the mothership from Close Encounters Of The Third Kind.
I am very fortunate to have many high-level LP and SP players to practice with at LATTA, so I actually love to play them... Olivier's main weapon is the push-jab off your any-spin shot, so the key is to back him off with deep placements to take away his speedy pushes off the bounce.  Many high-level players are used to serve short and push short to start the game, a big no-no against Pushblocker, as he would take those shots off-the-bounce and move his opponents like drunken sailors.  LOL  Further, some of these high-level players would try to loop Olivier down with heavy spin, another no-no against him as the ball will come back buzzing with reversed spin.  It's best to loop softly with some minimum controlled spin as deep as possible to take away his angles.  As long as the ball you looped is deep, his blocks will come back very slow and easy to control or re-loop.  Once he knows you mean business to play long points he can get frustrated... Still, you must be able to put away weak returns from him with enough power and consistency.
As I use short and long pips I don't produce much spin for him to "pin" me down, so I was able to place his speedy pushes back deep to his body and corners to force a weak no-spin long push from him to attack with my short pips.


Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

I mean what bit of the beutiful game relly gets you going...............
If it were me it would be the frustrated look on the opponents face.


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I TT therefore I am


Posted By: Jonan
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Metallis Metallis wrote:

I hate pips. They all should be banned. I think table tennis is the only sport that someone can win just because of the equipment hes using. A pip player just stand there returning the ball, they dont even have to move, and still win. Wheres the fun? I rather lose than winning like that.

heh, you play against a few pip players regularly, and you just learn to read spin *gasp* and they the deadballs and such are nothing. If you get problems playing them, just play a few more matches against them and it's pretty easy honestly, unless they are just good -players with pips. I didn't suddenly start winning matches because I had pips, I won more matches playing with pips because I played a more controlled, slower game and didn't try to just smash everything. They aren't simple to learn, they have sooooo many different shots to learn, it takes a ton of time to just begin to understand what you're doing with them, but they are slower and have little spin, so it's a big disadvantage given in exchange for control, which I now <3


Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 5:58pm
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not critisising the stye of play, at all, just the percieved ideology from the protaginised view, I get off on hitting a winner, what I am saying is how get off playing the perfect block.

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The Older I get, The better I was.


Posted By: Jonan
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not critisising the stye of play, at all, just the percieved ideology from the protaginised view, I get off on hitting a winner, what I am saying is how get off playing the perfect block.

You'd have to experience the standing there and doing a chop block just nullifying their "winner" back across the table as they flail in their big followthrough and their look of victory turn to a look of dismay as it hits the table out of their reach.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Heimdallalso Heimdallalso wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


Is this our own roundrobin? He must be a skilled attacker. Viva la short-pips.Clap
 
 
I usually don't have problems with short pips (at least lately) but when you play roundrobin, you never know when he'll twiddle to short pips and attack. He is kind of unpredictable to play against. You can't play it safe against him as he will just attack with his short pips by twiddling...
 
Quote I never underestimate long-pips players.
My fundamentals are sufficiently lacking as to severely lessen my chances against them.
This refers to sub 2000 guys.
How would I fare against you?
I might get 4 points off you!Embarrassed
Maybe you'll do better than you think... Maybe we will get to play some time.. My schedule (outside of FL) will be Cary Cup in March, US Open in Wisconcin, at least one tourney in California near LA and the Teams in Baltimore as also next years Nationals if I'll have enough remaining vacation..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

All I can say 'pushblocker' is how you dream at night your best shots, I mean, I can, we all can remmember our best shots, dissapearing into the void of our oppo
nents gap. How do you dream about your best shots? It surely can't be so satisfying? its all about the oppo making a mistake, You surely can't see what we all do, a winning 'past the opponent' shot, a pure winner, a satifying clean snap, your game is about spoiling, what then gets you off...Just results?   I mean what bit of the beutiful game relly gets you going...............


People are different. When I recall my good matches, I don't really remember my "superhuman" shots. I just recall general feeling of having fun and enjoying the game itself. I can imagine that Pushblocker gets enough enjoyment out of his style - otherwise I bet he would have switched to table hockey or poker a long time ago.
I generally enjoy competing. Table Tennis is a very competitive sport. Some people get nervous when competing.. I get excited (in a positive way).. I know that my game is ugly but it is effective and makes many opponents underestimate me.. I'm actually very comfortable when people underestimate my game. Of course I also enjoy the socializing part of table tennis. I've made many friends but also a few enemies.. well.. at least people who don't like me.. but that's ok.. Life is not a popularity contest. I'm aware that I play a style and equipment that is not very popular with the opponents and they are taking shots at me for that reason but I'm a fairly thick skinned person, so it doesn't bother me!

-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by Heimdallalso Heimdallalso wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


Is this our own roundrobin? He must be a skilled attacker. Viva la short-pips.Clap

I never underestimate long-pips players.
My fundamentals are sufficiently lacking as to severely lessen my chances against them.
This refers to sub 2000 guys.
How would I fare against you?
I might get 4 points off you!Embarrassed


Olivier visited our club two times... A super nice guy and a true ping pong lover.  He's the kind of guy that if you talk table tennis to him his eyes would light up like the mothership from Close Encounters Of The Third Kind.
I am very fortunate to have many high-level LP and SP players to practice with at LATTA, so I actually love to play them... Olivier's main weapon is the push-jab off your any-spin shot, so the key is to back him off with deep placements to take away his speedy pushes off the bounce.  Many high-level players are used to serve short and push short to start the game, a big no-no against Pushblocker, as he would take those shots off-the-bounce and move his opponents like drunken sailors.  LOL  Further, some of these high-level players would try to loop Olivier down with heavy spin, another no-no against him as the ball will come back buzzing with reversed spin.  It's best to loop softly with some minimum controlled spin as deep as possible to take away his angles.  As long as the ball you looped is deep, his blocks will come back very slow and easy to control or re-loop.  Once he knows you mean business to play long points he can get frustrated... Still, you must be able to put away weak returns from him with enough power and consistency.
As I use short and long pips I don't produce much spin for him to "pin" me down, so I was able to place his speedy pushes back deep to his body and corners to force a weak no-spin long push from him to attack with my short pips.
Your game really drives me crazy.. I'm glad that most people don't play like you as I would be losing a lot of matches. You play very unpredictable and I have no clear strategy against you.. I have strategies against most other style that work very well but I haven't found one against you, mostly due to your twiddling on your backhand.  Usually when I play long pips blockers, I can just outlast them by pushing pips to pips but it won't work against you as you will twiddle and attack with the short pips. I have to be very alert and realize when you are ready to twiddle so that I can put the ball to the other side. I wish that you were closer and that I could practice more against you to figure something out.. I know that Robert Shahnazari feels the same way against your style. You give both of us a lot of trouble!!  I will probably see you again some time next summer as I'm planning another tournament visit in Cali this coming year!

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2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 9:00pm
For those who complain about this being a boring video and pips players have no skills and have advantages, all I can say is Pushblocker does not become a 2200 player without any skills.  Playing with pips have a different set of skills as inverted loop players.  Even playing with different LP's require subtlely different strokes/skills.
 
As in baseball, besides fast balls, a hitter has to deal with curve balls, change-ups and knuckle balls.  So many good college players come out of college but cannot make it to the big league because all they can hit are fast balls.  If table tennis is limited to only loop drives, I would find that boring.  But then, my opinion is biased (ready my sig) :)
 


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The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda




Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by ztec ztec wrote:

You've probably been asked this before Pushblocker, but how does your style match up against good short pips players? I may be mistaken but your game thrives off inverted players who may not have the discipline to consistently execute again and again, do short pips give you more trouble?


Here's a video against a short pips flat hitter..
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0YZb8u6db8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0YZb8u6db8
 
Video is still processing, so it might be a few minutes until it's available (10:19 PM Eastern Time)
 
The opponent is only rated in the mid 2000's but he had a great tournament, beating mid 2100 players (at least one that I know of)


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: friendship
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 5:02am
Originally posted by rustyfo rustyfo wrote:

Haven't read the comments to the thread, but watched most of the video. sh*t man your pushes look f**king brutal - I would really be in trouble against your style - frustration just kicks in so fast as a schooled looping player when you meet someone who just destroys your rhytm like you do. I'm impressed by how calm the Korean dude managed to stay instead of just going for his big forehands, which will definitely have been his main instinct.

The two things that would do wonders for your game are in my opinion:
1. Improve consistency with the backhand - I realise you had to stay agressive because of your opponent being stronger than you, but in any case it's something you need to improve if you wan't to take your game to the next level.
2. After you've pushed deep deep into your opponent's FH, practise counterlooping/blocking his weak/slow diagonal opening loop. This is first of all a much more effective shot instead of stepping way over with your BH-pips, and also it will put you in a much better position when he finally manages to open to your BH corner.
You might/probably know this, but it's important to note that almost all loopers will FH-loop diagonally when under a lot of pressure - like when you push super deep+fast+low to the FH corner, which seems to be your most effective shot.

anyway just my 2cents, hopefully they can be of some use.
 
yeah...
 
korean player doesn't look cocky to me at all certainly not if he wasn't fully in the match. he looks puzzled, amused and smiling in disbelief how he is unable to attack anything with consistency bigger than sole shot, and he can't do anything but smile while feeling powerless. but he was calm enough. i'm impressed he was able to produce his best play when losing 7:10 in third, that was pure quality when he has shown his class and ability to play best when needed most. if he'd lost third, match could have easily gone into five sets
 
this is also because of the fact that style of pushblocker is unique. ok, it is pushblocking, but the placement, varying of shots, agressiveness, this is no school approach, but dirty, effective, unpleasant way, against which even skilled and certainly against different materials and styles quite experienced korean player, had most difficult time. he won it on serves and patience. and if pushblocker was able to read correctly his spins on serves, I think he would probably lose this match


Posted By: friendship
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 5:10am
Originally posted by Metallis Metallis wrote:

Wheres the fun? I rather lose than winning like that.
 
these are good question. but...to be better than someone and to win in most matches is always fun for itself. it is different quality what is needed with this style. consistency is always needed as well as skill, but offensive style is demanding in terms of speed and footwork. me personally, i would hate if player blessed with speed and mobility plays this way, but for someone lacking this basic qualities it is the way for acheiving high level of play anyway, and in this case i understand the choice perfectly
 
also where is fun...there is fun in this style also, but fun is different. this is thinking game. this is also reason why me, asd being recreative player, hate playing against this style. because i have to think way too much that i would want in game. i like to play to relax, not to overheat the f*** brain Big smile


Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 6:37am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

All I can say 'pushblocker' is how you dream at night your best shots, I mean, I can, we all can remmember our best shots, dissapearing into the void of our oppo
nents gap. How do you dream about your best shots? It surely can't be so satisfying? its all about the oppo making a mistake, You surely can't see what we all do, a winning 'past the opponent' shot, a pure winner, a satifying clean snap, your game is about spoiling, what then gets you off...Just results?   I mean what bit of the beutiful game relly gets you going...............


People are different. When I recall my good matches, I don't really remember my "superhuman" shots. I just recall general feeling of having fun and enjoying the game itself. I can imagine that Pushblocker gets enough enjoyment out of his style - otherwise I bet he would have switched to table hockey or poker a long time ago.
I generally enjoy competing. Table Tennis is a very competitive sport. Some people get nervous when competing.. I get excited (in a positive way).. I know that my game is ugly but it is effective and makes many opponents underestimate me.. I'm actually very comfortable when people underestimate my game. Of course I also enjoy the socializing part of table tennis. I've made many friends but also a few enemies.. well.. at least people who don't like me.. but that's ok.. Life is not a popularity contest. I'm aware that I play a style and equipment that is not very popular with the opponents and they are taking shots at me for that reason but I'm a fairly thick skinned person, so it doesn't bother me!
 A good well defended answer IMO, I can see you like to wipe the smile off a few facesLOL

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The Older I get, The better I was.


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 7:19am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

[ A good well defended answer IMO, I can see you like to wipe the smile off a few facesLOL
 
I mostly enjoy taking down players who talk crap about my game..  I also love to prove others wrong..  When I started playing in this country, they told me that I played about 1700 level.. Well, my initial rating was 1881 which was also my lowest ever. Many told me that I couldn't get to 2000 with my game and a few months later, I broke 2000 for the first time.. Many told me that I couldn't get past 2100 with my game.. I did..and even got past 2200 (even though a little below it right now).  I have played a few players who said that they can beat me easy and it didn't turn out good for them.. I have taken down tons of players who are so called long pips specialists. The satisfaction that I get out of that is priceless..
I do agree with those saying that it's easier to get to a higher level with long pips but what many don't realize is that it's actually more difficult to get past a certain level with that style and type of equipment. There are EXTREMELY few long pips pushblockers who get past 2000 at all.  There are maybe about 20 - 25 long pips blockers above 2000 rating in the country and there are less than 10 above 2100.. 8 of those 10 do attack frequently and there are only 2 who are above 2100 who do NOT attack too much, if at all and that's me and Peter Chen..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:11am
Yes, I think we share a similar personality pushblocker, I am a driven soul too, especially when someone tells me I have a limitation which is within the bounds of realistically surpassing.

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The Older I get, The better I was.


Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:41am
bear with me for a minute while I speculate about strategy that is way out of my depth.

i know that you (oliver) have entertained the possibility of developing an attacking forehand - and I was also intrigued when someone mentioned the possibility of a twiddling BH attack (especially considering your BH oriented stance).

it was also mentioned in this thread that you perform best against players who try to use power.

So the question becomes, can you develop a selective attacking style that
a) allows you to put away weak balls outright for winners
and
b) allows you to "encourage" counterattacking that you can then pushblock

In the first scenario, opponent mistakes would be punished and you would create more tension in your opponent. This alone would be disruptive to the psychology of playing a controlled slower/less spinny game against you.

In the second (if it is in fact possible) you would help generate the faster pace on which you can more easily capitalize.

In both cases, you could selectively create disruptions in opponent rhythm.

And in some ways, your practice environment would be ideal for this (2-3 hours of matches against weaker players) as you could run up the scores (2-0 in games) and then selectively play the third game trying to integrate one of those two types of attacks.

But again, forgive me, I know I am talking out of my depth here, but I am genuinely convinced that having a weapon to finish weak points and another weapon to create points that favor your game would benefit you.


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http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . AVX P500 : 007pro + rasant


Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:53am

You feed off peoples mistakes,your game thrives from the confused state you put them in. I have watched your opponents faces go from "one full of confidence " to one of "uncertainty "  your game does that.



Posted By: Sigma
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:55am
I totaly agree with your analysis. Why people felt that Korean cocky, only because he is higher level player?? He just tried very hard to adjust his attack to deal with a very unconventional push attack. Instead of showing frustration on his face, he kept cool and trying to smile as much as he can when he could not return pushblock's fast push especially heavy one with some kind of backspin. People don't realize that his push over the opponont's topspin more or like backspin attack that is not equivalent to simple backspin push.
 
I personally enjoy to watch this game more than watching some other high level professional players' game, very entertaining and fun to watch.


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:56am
Pushblocker,

People often give you suggestions on how to improve your game (add this or that). I want to turn the question around. What parts of your game (if any) do you ever think "well if that player just did this or that that I do they would be better?"

I am thinking of players who may use LP to chop with or SP, but maybe you have some suggestions for inverted players??

thanx in advance


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:00am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

bear with me for a minute while I speculate about strategy that is way out of my depth.

i know that you (oliver) have entertained the possibility of developing an attacking forehand - and I was also intrigued when someone mentioned the possibility of a twiddling BH attack (especially considering your BH oriented stance).

it was also mentioned in this thread that you perform best against players who try to use power.

So the question becomes, can you develop a selective attacking style that
a) allows you to put away weak balls outright for winners
and
b) allows you to "encourage" counterattacking that you can then pushblock

In the first scenario, opponent mistakes would be punished and you would create more tension in your opponent. This alone would be disruptive to the psychology of playing a controlled slower/less spinny game against you.

In the second (if it is in fact possible) you would help generate the faster pace on which you can more easily capitalize.

In both cases, you could selectively create disruptions in opponent rhythm.

And in some ways, your practice environment would be ideal for this (2-3 hours of matches against weaker players) as you could run up the scores (2-0 in games) and then selectively play the third game trying to integrate one of those two types of attacks.

But again, forgive me, I know I am talking out of my depth here, but I am genuinely convinced that having a weapon to finish weak points and another weapon to create points that favor your game would benefit you.
My problem is that I really don't have too much time for table tennis at all. Twice a week ain't enough. Against weak players, I can already attack pretty good as they are giving me a lot more attackable balls than stronger players. Being able to attack against lower rated players doesn't mean anything.. Good players will give me very few openings to attack. Of course, I do have to take those openings and kill them to keep the opponent real. If they know that they can play it very safe, I'm screwed.. If you watch my match against Bryan Michaud, I had a few attacks which caused him to take slightly more risk on his shots.. Against attackers, all I need is to keep them real.. It's mostly against slower styles and other pips players that I have to attack frequently..  I'm consistently working on my game but at tournaments, I usually play more conservative than in training..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:05am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Pushblocker,

People often give you suggestions on how to improve your game (add this or that). I want to turn the question around. What parts of your game (if any) do you ever think "well if that player just did this or that that I do they would be better?"

I am thinking of players who may use LP to chop with or SP, but maybe you have some suggestions for inverted players??

thanx in advance
 
The key for a attacker to play against me is to slow down the game, place the ball well and DEEP (I love short balls as I can use the angles) and wait for the right ball to attack. To pick your hits is the key.. It's recommended that WNEH you go for the kill, hit it hard enough and place it well enough so that it doesn't come back.. However, you have to wait for that opening. If you try to attack the wrong ball or if you attack to weak, I will have an advantage.. My game is to get my opponents to push to me so that I can push aggressively against their push. I don't like slow topspin. Do a search for the match of heavyspin (Larry Bavly) against me.. He does all the right thing.. He topspins with medium pace against me until he gets an opening for the kill.  With other words.. Don't take risks and wait for your chance.. Of course, a understanding of long pips is required too..
Another thing.. Serve long, fast and without spin deep into the backhand of the long pips blocker.. That might create a opening for a 3rd ball attack..


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:23am

[/QUOTE]
 
The key for a attacker to play against me is to slow down the game, place the ball well and DEEP (I love short balls as I can use the angles) and wait for the right ball to attack. To pick your hits is the key.. It's recommended that WNEH you go for the kill, hit it hard enough and place it well enough so that it doesn't come back.. However, you have to wait for that opening. If you try to attack the wrong ball or if you attack to weak, I will have an advantage.. My game is to get my opponents to push to me so that I can push aggressively against their push. I don't like slow topspin. Do a search for the match of heavyspin (Larry Bavly) against me.. He does all the right thing.. He topspins with medium pace against me until he gets an opening for the kill.  With other words.. Don't take risks and wait for your chance.. Of course, a understanding of long pips is required too..
Another thing.. Serve long, fast and without spin deep into the backhand of the long pips blocker.. That might create a opening for a 3rd ball attack..
[/QUOTE]

I am actually not asking how to play you, but what techniques I (or others) can use to incorporate them in our games against more standard style players. Without becoming full time pushblockers....


Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:30am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:


I am actually not asking how to play you, but what techniques I (or others) can use to incorporate them in our games against more standard style players. Without becoming full time pushblockers....
I think that pace change and being "unpredictable" helps a lot. Practice the down the line shots frequently as those are great to throw off your opponent. Block the ball early off the bounce (even with inverted) as the ball will come faster to the opponent than a block at the table. You also don't need to adjust your racket angle when blocking off the bounce against topspin.. Just try it and you'll be surprised..  Penholders often live off that type of block.. They block off the bounce with 90 degree racket angle.. Works with just about all types of rubber. Disrupting the opponents timing is key to making them miss.  Thal Leibovitz is a great example of changing pace and throwing off opponents.. His game looks fairly  common but if you pay close attention, there is some great pace change  and great placement.


-------------
2010 Florida State Champion

Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand


Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 1:07pm
Nice video Pushblocker. Good quality.

Its not boring for me because I can relate to the looper's experience in that match. There are versions of your game at every level. Where I'm at there's a handful of anti-spin bh blockers who use a similar technique of pushing/blocking from side to side with control, forcing the "loopers" to run back and forth between fh and bh. Footwork is almost the most important aspect of playing against that style. (If not the most important aspect against any style.)

I don't think the Korean guy is cocky. He's a good player who wanted to win without looking like he's trying too hard. You almost got him to look like he was trying... He was smiling and laughing to himself nervously, but he had just enough poise to finish you off before the panic set in.



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Posted By: Slade
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 3:31pm
I generally like playing LP/Anti players because like what Pushblocker mentioned, I always look to control the match with slow topspin to their defense side. If anyone has seen He Zhi Wen play a chopper you know it is the same exact thing. Just slow, as safe as possible loops or rolls to their defense over and over and over and over until I get the right ball to kill (and/or maybe find a good time to change the angle completely the other way). Obviously I still wouldn't beat Pushblocker because the rating difference is just too much, but I think adapting this strategy against that style opponent easily is like giving me a 100 point handicap or much more. It only becomes difficult when they can twiddle, consistently step far around to FH attack, or have very fast aggressive blocks. When it comes back slow and you have all the time in the world to just safe loop and repeat it is pretty comfortable.


Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.


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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P



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