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[Video] Playing when I'm frustrated...

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Topic: [Video] Playing when I'm frustrated...
Posted By: ohhgourami
Subject: [Video] Playing when I'm frustrated...
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 3:58am
I decided to put get my gf to record me playing today.  My game was totally off but I gotta work with what I got and I'm just going to post it anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_N0KJUMhuQ&feature=youtube_gdata - http://youtu.be/n_N0KJUMhuQ - http://youtu.be/n_N0KJUMhuQ



While playing I knew I was making some silly mistake and had no idea why my service receives sucked so much (like I was constantly surprised).  Guess, what...I wasn't ready!  Maybe my friend is serve rushing me or I'm just out of it, but I should be ready every time!  Comment if you want, this was a mess.


This is me after I finally chilled out a bit.  Shots start going in more often and I'm willing to be a bit more aggressive.  Also I'm not surprised by serves.

http://youtu.be/aOVoqZenSs8 - http://youtu.be/aOVoqZenSs8


Just out of curiosity, what do you think my opponents rating is?  What about me?


More videos to be posted this Thursday.


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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g



Replies:
Posted By: DeIgado
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 8:24am
It is very hard to guess rating based on video, no offense if you are higher but I'm gonna go with 1400 because your serves are very good but you are too aggressive. You could easily go up 200 points just by picking your shots better and being more patient with your game. It is obvious that you will go up very quickly very soon, but from that video, I am gonna vote on 1400. 

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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising


Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 9:06am

I would change that set-up, I know your love for HK but that blade I 've played with was too hard for my playing style some blades are not for everyone they don't fit their particular style of play. I suggest you try a softer blade AVX or similar and take your game from the basic stage up like I have ...you can only get better.



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      AVALOX BLUE THUNDER


Posted By: qynthnghm
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 10:14am
Yo dawg,

I'm no coach or anything but here's my observations: I'm going to agree with the first two posters as well as add that you should shorten your swing, i.e., make it more compact. You have a very large backswing but there is very little arm speed nor power behind it. For the short spinny balls that you try to topspin, you arm is almost always completely straight out, and you get no snap from your elbow. I watched both matches as well as your training videos and I think you need to retool your FH stroke. You have lots of waist rotation which is good but you aren't transferring the power properly.

It seems like for every topspin ball off the table you have only one answer to it, but there are many different kinds of loops that you need to practice and incorporate, not just the full-out power loop. You also need to realize that your current stroke requires a massive recovery time and good footwork in order to pull off consecutive, accurate shots. Otherwise, most of your loops can easily be blocked back towards your center or elbow and pin you down (which happens a few times in the video).

Some good points: Your service timing is very good, so keep that up. I would say that you should not try to return every serve with your forehand though. Try returning/opening up more with the backhand so you don't have to force yourself so far off to the left. I'd have to agree with Delgado and go with 1400 from what I just watched. Your friend is probably lower than you but he played more patiently and had much better control over his service returns. I'm sure he mostly relied on your over-aggressiveness and errors to win.

Thanks for sharing!


Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 10:24am
not bad but the posters above me pretty much summed it up..

you really need to work on your footwork.  for example in the beggining, the guy served a couple of serves to your bh side short and you kept moving with your right foot forward.  although on most occasions you should be moving your right leg forward to receive the short ball, if he is serving to the very corner of your bh side (short) your left foot should moev forward.  

if you move your right foot forward, ull be out of position for your next shot and you won't receive that shot well either.  

the example im talking about is at 1:23


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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX
BH: Tenergy 64, MAX


Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 10:25am
o and also, your forehand swing is much too big and your arm is too straight.  contact the ball closer to your body whereas in your training videos, you contact the ball way too much too far frmo ur body

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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX
BH: Tenergy 64, MAX


Posted By: zheyi
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 10:33am
your set up seems too fast for you.. or your strokes goes hair wired?


Posted By: shihjye
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 11:47am
Dang, it's not fair. I want to train in California. D: You're facility looks so spacious, and I took a peek at the coaching one and that looks like gerfloor stuff. :P

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Stiga Rosewood XO
FH: H3 Neo
BH: Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta


Posted By: DeIgado
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 11:56am
Alot of people here are telling you to change your setup. Don't change it there's no reason, control is all relative. A friend of mine went from a 900 to a 1500 with a TBS w/ T05 on both sides and is only getting better. Your FH stroke may be a bit elongated but your form is perfect and your handspeed will increase in time. Like I said in my first post, push more and pick better shots to open up on. Your game is fine you just need more experience.

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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising


Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 12:17pm
+1 delgado. i'm gonna make sure u and i play next time i'm in the orlando area!

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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH



Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by JyeChen JyeChen wrote:

Dang, it's not fair. I want to train in California. D: You're facility looks so spacious, and I took a peek at the coaching one and that looks like gerfloor stuff. :P

This is practice at school, which is in a gym.  In my training vids, yup that stuff is like gerfloor.  Mmmm I love playing on that stuff.  Plus it's easier on the legs.


BTW, you guys are funny!  My opponent is over 2000 USATT.  I absolutely hate receiving serves from him since they are these mid short topspin serves to my bh which are slightly off position for my push flick technique, but very difficult for me to return with bh.  The reason why I receive fh on every ball on every serve is because I can vary my returns a lot more as I can turn topspin serves into short underspin, flick, or something else.  Also its slightly out of my range to powerfick (or at least use more power) since anything that weak gets killed.  Of all the serves I have to receive, his is one of the hardest to return for me as it exposes one of the biggest flaws in my service return - my bh.




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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: shihjye
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 12:27pm
Practice at school? o.O Like high school? Or college. Either way, it's much nicer than when I got to "play", not practice, in hs... and it's also nicer than what we have in college.... > .>

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Stiga Rosewood XO
FH: H3 Neo
BH: Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta


Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 12:37pm
College of course man...I'm a 3rd year and my opponent is a grad student.

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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: kyle90
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 12:44pm
you must  be rated under 1100. you're missing too many shots to be any higher. just concentrate on keeping the ball on the table for now, and eventually you'll get your strokes to fall into place at the right moment during a point


Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 2:12pm
delgado, i actually disagree with that.  Although some people may still improve very quickly with fast equipment, statistically, the players that use slower equipment because they need to fix their strokes, improve faster (in general).  Im sure for every 10 people, therem ight be 2-3 that improve with fast equipment but it is well known to everyone, that plaeyrs that need to fix their strokes need slower and better controlled equipment.

It's the fact that wiht fast equipment, you won't get the feeling of loops, punches, blocks, etc because the ball bounces off ur equipment too quickly.  In order for you to perfect your strokes, You need to have that touch and feeling.  

One of my former coaches was a beijing provincial player.  His backhand is simply amazing.  He didnt play for 2 and a half years, picked up his racket and could block and topspin better than 22-2300 u.s players just because of his feeling for the ball.  That feeling needs to be attained by every player if they want to get better.

nothing against your post but just another idea i guess.


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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX
BH: Tenergy 64, MAX


Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 2:13pm
You seem to concentrate much more on maintaining a proper form during execution of a stroke than on keeping the ball on the table. The problem with this approach is that you really cannot be sure at all if your form is actually “proper” until you achieve a (high) level of consistency with your strokes. Keep in mind that you are in a process of grooving a stroke which – in the future - is supposed to serve you against much stronger opponents and much more difficult balls – and that (barring some obvious errors) the quality of your play will always be judged by sheer number of points won – not by the purity of your form. You risk that – since you neglect your strokes’ consistency now – all your hard work will end up in grooving a beautiful stroke which will never make the ball land on the table. 

I know that you heard this already, but imo you need either slower equipment or revising your stroke’s technique to make them spinnier. 



Posted By: DeIgado
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

delgado, i actually disagree with that.  Although some people may still improve very quickly with fast equipment, statistically, the players that use slower equipment because they need to fix their strokes, improve faster (in general).  Im sure for every 10 people, therem ight be 2-3 that improve with fast equipment but it is well known to everyone, that plaeyrs that need to fix their strokes need slower and better controlled equipment.

It's the fact that wiht fast equipment, you won't get the feeling of loops, punches, blocks, etc because the ball bounces off ur equipment too quickly.  In order for you to perfect your strokes, You need to have that touch and feeling.  

One of my former coaches was a beijing provincial player.  His backhand is simply amazing.  He didnt play for 2 and a half years, picked up his racket and could block and topspin better than 22-2300 u.s players just because of his feeling for the ball.  That feeling needs to be attained by every player if they want to get better.

nothing against your post but just another idea i guess.


I can see where your coming from and I agree with some of it. However, I tend to look at it this way. If you start with a slow blade you will most likely move on to a fast blade later in your game however your transition period between your slow and fast blade will take a lot of time as you are not used the speed. If you start with a fast blade, you won't have a reason to change blades to anything faster so you will keep that blade and get used to it. It may take a longer amount of time in the beginning to get used to that blade but you will be able to skip switching to a faster blade later on.

Basically what I'm saying is  that using a faster blade in the beginning will take longer to get good and using a slow blade to start will increase your skill faster but also cause you to waste time later on when you switch to a faster blade.  It doesn't matter if you go on route A or B, the end result is the same.

imo


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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising


Posted By: Ndragon88
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 3:22pm
Hey ohhgouramiSmile
Well firstly I would like to point out that your opponent looks like a good player. He serves well and has very good anticipation. He is better than you? it seems that way anyway.
So if anyone is wondering why so many mistakes, apart from the fact that he is obviously having an off game as the title implies anyway, he is also playing someone of a decent standard with good quality shots.

Secondly I would like to say that I love your serves. I am even going to try learning them now lol. 

Lastly I would like to say I can totally feel where your coming from having a bad day or session (had one last night on my last match night). I know how hard it can be to get back into the game when you have already lost concentration. This causes many many unforced errors.

My advice would be. You BH needs improving, straight up. You try to receive too many shots with your FH because of the bad BH, which isn't bad as long as your going to have good contact and most importantly good footwork.
I remember saying in one of your training videos that your FH stroke looks extremely wide. I don't know if its bad technique but it seems to put u at a disadvantage against this opponent. Very slow recovery and difficult to change the angle of the stroke depending on what's coming at you.
Would be interesting to see you paired up against someone more on your level (excuse my manners if you and him are already of the same level).

Looks alright though in all honesty. Just keep at it.
You can't expect to be WLQ without putting in the same work as him ^_^. How long have u been playing anyway?


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Stiga Clipper
Skyline TG3 NEO/Palio Thors
www.youtube.com/ndragon88


Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by DeIgado DeIgado wrote:

Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

delgado, i actually disagree with that.  Although some people may still improve very quickly with fast equipment, statistically, the players that use slower equipment because they need to fix their strokes, improve faster (in general).  Im sure for every 10 people, therem ight be 2-3 that improve with fast equipment but it is well known to everyone, that plaeyrs that need to fix their strokes need slower and better controlled equipment.

It's the fact that wiht fast equipment, you won't get the feeling of loops, punches, blocks, etc because the ball bounces off ur equipment too quickly.  In order for you to perfect your strokes, You need to have that touch and feeling.  

One of my former coaches was a beijing provincial player.  His backhand is simply amazing.  He didnt play for 2 and a half years, picked up his racket and could block and topspin better than 22-2300 u.s players just because of his feeling for the ball.  That feeling needs to be attained by every player if they want to get better.

nothing against your post but just another idea i guess.


I can see where your coming from and I agree with some of it. However, I tend to look at it this way. If you start with a slow blade you will most likely move on to a fast blade later in your game however your transition period between your slow and fast blade will take a lot of time as you are not used the speed. If you start with a fast blade, you won't have a reason to change blades to anything faster so you will keep that blade and get used to it. It may take a longer amount of time in the beginning to get used to that blade but you will be able to skip switching to a faster blade later on.

Basically what I'm saying is  that using a faster blade in the beginning will take longer to get good and using a slow blade to start will increase your skill faster but also cause you to waste time later on when you switch to a faster blade.  It doesn't matter if you go on route A or B, the end result is the same.

imo

good point but i think that the time it takes to get used to a faster blade is much less than being frustrated with missing all your shots and virtually getting no feeling in the beggining


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Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX
BH: Tenergy 64, MAX


Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Ndragon88 Ndragon88 wrote:

Hey ohhgouramiSmile
Well firstly I would like to point out that your opponent looks like a good player. He serves well and has very good anticipation. He is better than you? it seems that way anyway.
So if anyone is wondering why so many mistakes, apart from the fact that he is obviously having an off game as the title implies anyway, he is also playing someone of a decent standard with good quality shots.

Secondly I would like to say that I love your serves. I am even going to try learning them now lol. 

Lastly I would like to say I can totally feel where your coming from having a bad day or session (had one last night on my last match night). I know how hard it can be to get back into the game when you have already lost concentration. This causes many many unforced errors.

My advice would be. You BH needs improving, straight up. You try to receive too many shots with your FH because of the bad BH, which isn't bad as long as your going to have good contact and most importantly good footwork.
I remember saying in one of your training videos that your FH stroke looks extremely wide. I don't know if its bad technique but it seems to put u at a disadvantage against this opponent. Very slow recovery and difficult to change the angle of the stroke depending on what's coming at you.
Would be interesting to see you paired up against someone more on your level (excuse my manners if you and him are already of the same level).

Looks alright though in all honesty. Just keep at it.
You can't expect to be WLQ without putting in the same work as him ^_^. How long have u been playing anyway?

Thanks for the compliment on my serves.  I getting close to my 3rd of tt.  First year was with almost no coaching where I spend most of my time finding my style.  My 2nd year consisted of coaching during my breaks after every quarter, but that was it.  Worked on basics of fh for the longest time.  The second half of my 2nd year (this time around) was when I drove back to my hometown every Friday (200 miles round trip) for about 10 weeks to get coaching which I posted videos of.  I felt I had my biggest jump then.  And between all of that, I usually get about 4.5hr/week of practice, which is pretty unproductive since no one can block properly for me to work on my loops.

Yes, my opponent is significantly better than me.  I'd be lucky to get a game off him.  I feel there's a style mismatch (with the advantage going to him) since I need to start off points playing his bh.  His bh is significantly better than mine so I am forced to try to use my fh (which IMO is better than his fh).  Because his level is so much higher than mine, he can control my game so I can't use my fh effectively.  He has told me how afraid of my fh he is.  Until I have a bh that can match his or lightning fast footwork so I can murder him with my fh, I don't see how I can possibly win.

My biggest issue yesterday was my footwork, I couldn't get myself to bend as low as I usually do.  When I am moving fast enough, my big fh becomes a weapon, without my footwork, its a liability...

Thanks a lot for actually reading my first post before/after you watched my video and noticed I was having an off day.


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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 4:48pm
i think I completely agree with the comment I read earlier- you need to have more than just one kind of forehand. When the ball is in the right place and when you are in the right place, your forehand is a money shot. But repeating it seems difficult for you. You also have very little variation in your forehand. You can do a lot more with it. But at the same time, it seems you've been trying to acheive something very specific with it lately, and therefore probably only working on one kind of forehand. If that's the case, then it's understandable and you are just trying to apply what you're working on into your match.

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Nostalgic Offensive
EL-S
Vega Japan


Posted By: duchoangle
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 5:07pm
Based on your accuracy, I'd say you play around 1350-1400. On a good day you can beat much higher rated players, but that doesn't happen too often, I imagine. I don't think your opponent is playing to his true ability, but based on his form and consistency I'd say he's at least 1850.


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Donic Epox Offensiv - Tenergy 05-FX 2.1mm (BH) - Tenergy 80 2.1mm (FH) | USATT: 1831
http://www.youtube.com/user/lehoangduc1990/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1" rel="nofollow - My Videos


Posted By: Ndragon88
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 6:19pm
@ohhgourami - Well considering you have only been playing 3 years with limited time/coaching I would say your doing pretty well Smile

Keep it up and you definitely will get pretty good. I can see 2000 minimum for you. Your FH is very effective when it is successful. So on a good day it will be much more consistent and you will play at a higher standard. and over time you will improve over all and you will become a lot better and more dangerous.

Thanks for posting. and keep it up, and KEEP taking vids. I can't stress enough how much it helps. especially when u don't get coaching.


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Stiga Clipper
Skyline TG3 NEO/Palio Thors
www.youtube.com/ndragon88


Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 8:15pm
you have a great forward swing for sure. sometimes i just see that you don't upswing...so there's less spin and the ball doesn't dip as much. either do a bit more of an upswing or close your bat angle more initially and carry it more...

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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH



Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 8:25pm
Ohh keep it up ,We can all do good shots but the key is moving to do the good shot as higher level players won't make it easy for you
 I think your backhand will be a strength just keep using it, as you try and take some serves with your forehand and then have to do a reaching shot far right that depowers your next forehand Chinese loop, So just spin the ball up with your backhand to give yourself confidence, don't worry about the scores but get your backhand working that way you are in a great postion to recieve the next shot


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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website


Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 8:26pm
You need more control over your arm. Its just sticking out, you'll get a lot more balls on the table if you snap your forehand.


Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 8:48pm
@tpgh2k  thanks, I noticed that too especially after hitting 2 white GoGO balls into the net.  More upswing would take power away from the shot.  I feel the most powerful and controlled shot would be with a more closed angle with more power coming from the legs (which I couldn't use yesterday *sigh*).  From close table, you usually don't want to "carry" the ball, but you use your legs to dig deep if not all the way into the sponge to get the dwell.

@smackman I'll try to use my bh a bit more.  My coach trained me on using a special push flick to handle most serves that come to my bh but it doesn't work well on this one.  I suppose I'm supposed to smack this serve with my bh since it already has a lot of topspin on it.  Anything equivalent to just spinning up would get killed by his bh.


I will try to get some video of me playing an opponent closer to my level.  Hopefully my leg mechanics will be fine by then.


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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 9:09pm
if it has a lot of topspin, then you NEED to counterloop. i tried hitting (punch) and that sucker keeps on going off the table. so i think (in my opinion) that you'd need to spin on top of the ball a bit...

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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH



Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 9:18pm
hmmm good point...I will have to try this next time.  Last week I tried to fh his serves by stepping around.  Although hard as hell to do, it was getting some in, then I hit my fingers on the table...so I opened up a wound and bled...

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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: Ikaros21
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 9:24pm
sometimes you just have to keep the ball in play and your opponent could miss those returns too. plus if your trying to loop  a heavy backspin shot with your forward stroke take the ball on the rise and not when is descending or do yourself a favor and lift the ball with more sping rather than speed. like someone said before you're trying to look more technical instead of focusing in the real game !Smile

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I'm going up 1986 NooB
Blade: Galaxy T4
FH: Globe 999
BH: Butterfly Cermet I'm not re-gluing anymore


Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

if it has a lot of topspin, then you NEED to counterloop. i tried hitting (punch) and that sucker keeps on going off the table. so i think (in my opinion) that you'd need to spin on top of the ball a bit...


i'm sure counterlooping heavily spun balls is the preferred method at some levels of play. i'm just not certain if that level is 2200 or if it's higher than that.

saying that you can't punch something so you must have to counterloop it is like saying that you are having trouble killing flies with chopsticks, so you NEED to catch it with a needle and thread instead.

a basic block or counter is a heckuva lot easier (and can be performed more consistently) than a counterloop. all you have to worry about is placement and you can move your opponent around and force them to make a weaker shot that you can then attack. it's like using a flyswatter.

while i'm not in any position to give any sort of feedback on technique, the tactical decisions that some players make often leave me scratching my head. choosing a high risk/low percentage shot might feed the ego every so often, but it doesn't win games. and believe me that I've lost enough games going for the wrong stroke from the wrong position to back that one up.


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http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . Virtuoso AC : K1 + EL-P


Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 11:17pm
very true tek. it was my mistake since i was not specific in my post. i was referring to returning the topspin serves that ohh's getting from his 2000 friend to the bh side. the short topspin serves are hard to flick since you need to be somewhat aggressive with it. if not, it gets killed. 

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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH



Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 11:18pm
I only really watched the first video, it seems you lack "sharpness", I don't mean you aren't being aggresive.  In all actuality you often seemed over commit far too early on some serve returns and you end up making a weak return.  By sharpness I mean intensity, it doesn't look like you are trying very hard, your strokes seem long and slow.  There is nothing wrong with being smooth, but as an attacker your goal is to make the ball listen to you, and to get it to listen well it needs a lot of spin, and to get a lot of spin it needs racket speed.
 
So far your serves seem to be the strongest part of your game, but try to make the contact more violent.  You want to be able to create maximum spin, even if at a particular instance your goal is none.  Try to make some serves with spin that is 10/10 in your mind.  If you only ever practice serves at 7/10 spin, or even less, that is the maximum you will ever be able to get in a match consistently.  If you practice going for 10/10 with a more risky, sharp contact, you can always back it down to 7/10 in a match to gain some reliability.
 
As far as rating is concerned (and it doesn't really matter other than for the ego, and forum chest puffing), I would estimate you around 1300-1500.  I put a larger range of rating because players around that level tend to fluctuate greatly game to game, even down to individual points or shots.
 
 
p.s. - It seems you are often brushing your hair out of your eyes, I won't really go anywhere with this comment other than that as your level grows, your movement will become faster and more abrupt as the rally transitions become more rapid and instantaneous and it could create problems.


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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P


Posted By: BMonkey
Date Posted: 04/19/2011 at 11:21pm
I watched the second vid because you said that was the better one of the two... My constructive criticism would be to work on your service game. For realz.

In that second video, the placement and the length of your serves is almost exactly the same every time. Plus in your service motion, you serve from belly height and bring your paddle up to head height then recover back down. It's extra time to recover that way and leaves you exposed for aggressive return of service, especially with the lack of variation in placement and length.


Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 12:13am
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

very true tek. it was my mistake since i was not specific in my post. i was referring to returning the topspin serves that ohh's getting from his 2000 friend to the bh side. the short topspin serves are hard to flick since you need to be somewhat aggressive with it. if not, it gets killed. 

Yup, I need to be aggressive with it.  I think at least 9/10 that I've bumped the ball over in the past, it was killed.  If my chances of making the ball in and getting the upper hand on the point is 1/10, I say that is a hell lot better than hoping he will miss his shot.  Plus, I'm not improving if I'm just bumping the ball and hoping he misses.


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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 12:54am
yea it just takes practice. if you can drill with him regularly then it'll be a lot of help to you. get him to serve short topspin to bh or fh and then you can have fun with it and see if u can return it.

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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH



Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 1:46am
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

very true tek. it was my mistake since i was not specific in my post. i was referring to returning the topspin serves that ohh's getting from his 2000 friend to the bh side. the short topspin serves are hard to flick since you need to be somewhat aggressive with it. if not, it gets killed. 

Yup, I need to be aggressive with it.  I think at least 9/10 that I've bumped the ball over in the past, it was killed.  If my chances of making the ball in and getting the upper hand on the point is 1/10, I say that is a hell lot better than hoping he will miss his shot.  Plus, I'm not improving if I'm just bumping the ball and hoping he misses.


Believe me, I know the fear of an opponents offense. I used to think that it was because they were higher level players that they had such monsterous shots. Then I started seeing lower level players that had equally powerful shots. However in matches against the lower level players the big kill shots simply disappeared. What was different?

It took me about three 3 (and one series of matches with a US1600 penholder) to figure out that putting the ball into the middle third of the table is suicide against anyone with decent movement.

And going for broke with a 1/10 shot is a sure fire way to lose 9 points.

Instead of giving in to the fear and lashing out, you can help him miss or create a weak ball..

Remember:

-The other person can only respond to a ball that you have put in play.
-If he is killing 9 out of 10 of your bumps, you might consider working on placement of the shot.
-Even US2000 players have weak spots where they can't hit their strongest shots.
-If they didn't have those weak spots, they would be much higher than 2000.
-And finally, if you can identify those spots, and then intentionally hit them with the ball, you can cause your opponent to create weak openings that can be exploited.

Once I figured this out and started actively working on placement and control, it was liberating to finally realize that I could influence, reduce and even often prevent the effectiveness of my opponents attacks.

We can continue to agree to disagree, and that's fine.
There are different paths to winning.

Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

yea it just takes practice. if you can drill with him regularly then it'll be a lot of help to you. get him to serve short topspin to bh or fh and then you can have fun with it and see if u can return it.


This is good advice. Have him do the same serve, and work out at least 3 variations against the serve that you can do consistently (drop, push wide, flip, etc). If your opponent can't anticipate your choices, it's almost as good as having a hidden serve :D


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http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . Virtuoso AC : K1 + EL-P


Posted By: ohhgourami
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 2:22am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:



Believe me, I know the fear of an opponents offense. I used to think that it was because they were higher level players that they had such monsterous shots. Then I started seeing lower level players that had equally powerful shots. However in matches against the lower level players the big kill shots simply disappeared. What was different?

It took me about three 3 (and one series of matches with a US1600 penholder) to figure out that putting the ball into the middle third of the table is suicide against anyone with decent movement.

And going for broke with a 1/10 shot is a sure fire way to lose 9 points.

Instead of giving in to the fear and lashing out, you can help him miss or create a weak ball..

Remember:

-The other person can only respond to a ball that you have put in play.
-If he is killing 9 out of 10 of your bumps, you might consider working on placement of the shot.
-Even US2000 players have weak spots where they can't hit their strongest shots.
-If they didn't have those weak spots, they would be much higher than 2000.
-And finally, if you can identify those spots, and then intentionally hit them with the ball, you can cause your opponent to create weak openings that can be exploited.

Once I figured this out and started actively working on placement and control, it was liberating to finally realize that I could influence, reduce and even often prevent the effectiveness of my opponents attacks.

We can continue to agree to disagree, and that's fine.
There are different paths to winning.

Playing a control game against a player at a much higher level than you is a sure way to lose.  Working on placement and control is one thing and much easier said than done especially when your opponent is able to control YOUR game.  I don't think you realize the difference between a 1600 and a 2000.  In my case, I'm someone who isn't even a 1600 yet...

A controlled bump can only be a temporary solution.  I will not make me improve as a player and it is not a good way to learn how to beat 2000s.  Talking with my coach earlier, we have come up with a good solution on returning this serve.  One that will make me a more complete player without taking quick shortcuts.

Yes, there are two paths to winning, but there is one path that is cut short.


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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g


Posted By: qynthnghm
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 2:45am
Was this a serious match? It couldn't have been because of the great difference in skill. More of a friendly match, no? Therefore, losing the match shouldn't really be your concern, nor is winning the match. If you're not even at 1600 yet, then working on your consistency and control in the match is the greatest thing you can learn from it. Why are you concerned with beating 2000+ opponents at this point in your development? I'd be more concerned with keeping the ball on the table.


Posted By: Fruit loop
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 4:05am
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:



Believe me, I know the fear of an opponents offense. I used to think that it was because they were higher level players that they had such monsterous shots. Then I started seeing lower level players that had equally powerful shots. However in matches against the lower level players the big kill shots simply disappeared. What was different?

It took me about three 3 (and one series of matches with a US1600 penholder) to figure out that putting the ball into the middle third of the table is suicide against anyone with decent movement.

And going for broke with a 1/10 shot is a sure fire way to lose 9 points.

Instead of giving in to the fear and lashing out, you can help him miss or create a weak ball..

Remember:

-The other person can only respond to a ball that you have put in play.
-If he is killing 9 out of 10 of your bumps, you might consider working on placement of the shot.
-Even US2000 players have weak spots where they can't hit their strongest shots.
-If they didn't have those weak spots, they would be much higher than 2000.
-And finally, if you can identify those spots, and then intentionally hit them with the ball, you can cause your opponent to create weak openings that can be exploited.

Once I figured this out and started actively working on placement and control, it was liberating to finally realize that I could influence, reduce and even often prevent the effectiveness of my opponents attacks.

We can continue to agree to disagree, and that's fine.
There are different paths to winning.

Playing a control game against a player at a much higher level than you is a sure way to lose.  Working on placement and control is one thing and much easier said than done especially when your opponent is able to control YOUR game.  I don't think you realize the difference between a 1600 and a 2000.  In my case, I'm someone who isn't even a 1600 yet...

A controlled bump can only be a temporary solution.  I will not make me improve as a player and it is not a good way to learn how to beat 2000s.  Talking with my coach earlier, we have come up with a good solution on returning this serve.  One that will make me a more complete player without taking quick shortcuts.

Yes, there are two paths to winning, but there is one path that is cut short.


A controlled bump with good placement is just as effective since you're setting up for the next shot. With good placement you can change your opponents kill loop into a fast loop to where you're ready to counter attack it. It's about placing it so you can defend the next shot until you have the ability to really flick hard. Look at ma long, he's a great exponent of this.
I personally hate playing with people with that sort of attitude, it just wastes both our time picking up the ball. You should be practicing it on the practice table, not in a game.


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Timo Boll Spirit FL
Dr Evil ox both sides.


Posted By: Vassily
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 4:25am
You look like you are playing very loosely. Sort of just doing the standard motions because thats what you are trained to do. The ninja service return to his far FH is much better, you need to do more of these, i.e. have better decision making.

If there is a chance you have to go for it, but if theres no opening you cant just assume you are Ma Long and try for it and commit suicide. You might be thinking that you will practice being hyper-aggressive, then in time your technique will catch up, and you will be superman. But it doesnt really work like that. No matter how good you are, there will always be shots you can and cant do, and you need to be able to know the difference. In other words you will need to learn to dynamically "manage risk", i.e. know how good you are playing ON THAT DAY, and then take enough "risks" to play to up to that level and go no further.

Always give your opponent the chance to make their own mistakes. Dont think that the only way to win is if you can hit 11x4 straight 3rd/4th ball winners.

This is not to say that you should take up some super passive LP hope-they-miss game, that doesnt work at a higher level (and is very boring), but hyper-aggression is not the best (and is also a very boring playstyle, you might as well take up competitive coin flipping).




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Nittaku Acoustic FL    T05    Acuda S2 2.0mm


Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

A controlled bump with good placement is just as effective since you're setting up for the next shot. With good placement you can change your opponents kill loop into a fast loop to where you're ready to counter attack it. It's about placing it so you can defend the next shot until you have the ability to really flick hard. Look at ma long, he's a great exponent of this.
I personally hate playing with people with that sort of attitude, it just wastes both our time picking up the ball. You should be practicing it on the practice table, not in a game.
 
Michael Maze is also very good at this, during his matches he will drop shot 2-3 times in a row in a point, either trying to get them to drop it too high, or loop it at less than full power.  He does have extremely good touch though which is very important in this situation.


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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P


Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 12:01pm
Some people on here seem to believe his game is not relevant anymore but I will make this example anyways.  Go watch some matches of Waldner frow the last few years against much more "modern" players.  Pay attention to how competitive he is even though he has pretty bad footwork these days.  More importantly in this discussion, look at how many times he tries an aggresive flip, or the lack of how many times he does in reality.  You will almost always see him drop shot, or see him do one of his favorite returns, the deep push right to the body.  It is incredible how many times the players will run around to their forehand and not really get in a quality loop and Waldner just loops or blocks it past them down his backhand line.
 
Remember, just because you are not playing an aggresive flip or over the table loop does not mean you are forced into giving the opponent all of the initiative in the point.


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Primorac Carbon
MX-P | EL-P


Posted By: Penhold_Boy
Date Posted: 04/20/2011 at 1:16pm
Player in Black, you're ready stance, is  bad, you're racket should be more even with the table, not hanging at the floor. In case of a fast serve you would be screwed.

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Current Setup:
Grip - Penhold
Blade: Ma Lin Extra Offensive
FH: Adidas P7
BH: Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta

Old Setup:
FH: DHS Skyline 3 NEO
BH: Butterfly Sriver G3 FX






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