Some games between me and Robin
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Category: Coaching & Tips
Forum Name: Video of me playing
Forum Description: Post your playing videos and get tips and suggestions from other members.
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Topic: Some games between me and Robin
Posted By: APW46
Subject: Some games between me and Robin
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 4:12pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG7gnwQxxUQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG7gnwQxxUQ
You can do the USATT rating thing if you like, But I'm told I'm about 2350 to 2450, Robin a bit less, I'm the blonde guy. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Replies:
Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 4:40pm
| Backhand chop. I've been doing it often as well, do you think its better to BH chop or fish it back when in a defensive position on backhand. |
Posted By: Stoi
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:04pm
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You both hold the racket in a kinda strange way. The blue shirt guy holds it weird and backhand comfortable while you more properly and forehand comfortable (Timo Boll like). I can't rate you but the video was worth watching (i don't usually watch others than top near-top players). As for the fishing or chopping i think it depends more on the opponent unless you have an extraordinary ability that will confuse most players, btw Andy, nice chopping. I feel safer fishing or counter attacking. An advice to the blue shirt guy, when he is chopping you better topspin or at least do a decent backspin return don't try to stop the ball near the net. Hilarious play at 4:50, love these points! Nice play both. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:25pm
I only chopped/ fished in games where I was so far infront. We played 24 games, Honey won the first two, then I won the next 22. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
kenneyy88 wrote:Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:32pm
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both of u r great players but not 2350 for sure. maybe 1900-2000 ------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:45pm
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zomg they're definitely not sub 2000!!! are you guys mad?! def 2200+! if they can sustain rallies like that consistently with that much pace and spin, then they blow most average people out of the water. serve deception is crazy enough. but then they follow it up with consistent attacks, no silly pushes that go on forever. still using tenergy andy? ------------- www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis Timo Boll Spirit FL H3 Blue Sponge Black FH Tenergy 64 Red BH |
Posted By: Nori
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:54pm
I would agree. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:00pm
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Ha, I played a USATT 2200 rated player over a whole wkend last year and he won one game out of about 40...Also in Uk I was ranked one place above Ben Johnson last time he was in UK, http://www.usatt.org/history/rating/History/ - http://www.usatt.org/history/rating/History/ Playing him In the English premier division, USATT 2000 is an insult Guys! ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: melarimsa
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:02pm
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Good video. Thanks for posting. In my opinion you guys are at least 2100+ ... Few service and service returns shots where wrong, but otherwise it is all good. One of my videos people make fun of me or my partners as I have also few service or service return problems, and I am way below you guys (1300+ in WEST or 1600+ in the EAST American Rating) Cheers ! ------------- http://www.youtube.com/100NiTenis" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/100NiTenis |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:09pm
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: melarimsa
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:15pm
Well Andy, I made my opinion on this game that I watched. I may be wrong, and I am sure I am wrong for rating, but your opponent had some good shots also, and gave you some nice returns ... You are definitely better than him for at least 200 points, as I can see you have better control of the ball, than him. I hope this will clear "you guys"  ------------- http://www.youtube.com/100NiTenis" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/100NiTenis |
Posted By: debraj
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:42pm
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you may be 2300 ...but definitely this game doesn't show it. it is completely inappropriate to judge someone by watching his game video.. because we miss out a lot of things. on this video i, personally see technical errors in holding the racket, arm movement etc.. and feels like 1800-1900. but then another 1800-1900 guy may look like 2200, because in spite of being technically strong he may have a major weakness. you guys may be good players and this video may not do justice to your actual level, ... but I wouldn't call your styles 'mainstream'. ------------- 729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH) http://youtu.be/y9y9nE9g778" rel="nofollow - vid1 http://youtu.be/xqNy786yGOs" rel="nofollow - Vid 2 |
Posted By: ghostzen
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 8:23pm
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Cool Video, Honey has come on quite a bit hasn't he!. havent seem him play for quite a while. His service is starting to look pretty good. needs to keep it a tiny bit shorter/tighter if he can. Some really good rallies as well. I want your backhand loop! .... really natural shot.
Rating wise erm Rob 2000-2100 I guess.... he's defo on the up playing wise.
As for APW46 erm borderline 800 maybe on a good day!
 ..... |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 8:35pm
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Andy, you know you are going to catch more flack than this vid than the you vs Rob debate, yet you went ahead and posted it, even with the knowledge that 3/4 of this forum does not know you are near 2400 USATT level and wouldn't know if it fell out the sky and clocked them upside their forehead. What is remarkable is that you said Honey was significantly behind you a few years ago. You kinda inferred he was WAY behind. Honey appears to have very quickly tidied up things from your prior comments on other TT forums and developed some offense that can trouble you on a lot of points. He looks like another two years from putting you on the wrong end of the scoreline sometimes. You did not get as much profit from your short serve game. He had a high percentage of sucsessful flicking. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 8:39pm
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Unless Honey totally sucks rocks vs other styles, like long pips defenders or blockers, there is NO WAY Honey is only 2000 USATT. There are boatloads of 2000 level players who cannot flick to save their life nor can counterloop or stay in the point like Honey does consistantly. Agree with the rating assigned to Andy though... hehe. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 10:25pm
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2100-2300.
Sound strokes, consistency, good power on APW46's FH. Very good feel for the ball, especially APW.
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Posted By: DeIgado
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 10:40pm
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I feel like the guy in the blue shirt is around 2100 because although he had a solid backhand and some strong shots, I feel like he had poor shot selection. There were many times when he had time to step around to fh and generate more power but decided to stay with his back hand. Also, he rarely looped hard to you back hand. The points that he did, he won. He generally gave you a slow spinny loop to your BH or a fast loop to your FH which you crushed back because it seemed predictable. Now on to you, I would say b/w 2300 and 2400. My reasoning behind this is that your BH is consistent and powerful. Your FH is deceptive on location and powerful in counterlooping/ counterhitting. On one hand I want to say 2300 because it seems like you have a strong bh to compensate for your lack of movement. However, at the 2400 lvl having good movement is absolutely necessary, regardless of shot strength imo. I want to say 2400 because although you don't move all that much, you predict shots and react to them very very well, I am not sure if that is because you play with the other guy alot, or if your instincts are that good. I could be way off, this is just my opinion. ------------- Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx 2059 and rising |
Posted By: Jonan
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 10:51pm
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Anytime I see people saying someone is low rated, I think they need to look up videos of US 2500 players, whole matches, and see how many weak points, unforced errors, and short rallies they have. Also I can get games off of people who are technically 1000 points higher than me, or realistically 4-500 points higher. |
Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 11:06pm
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woah woah woah lolll. Just cuz i feel ur 19-2000, u dont have to take me seriously. I feel that ur 19-2000 and thats just my opinion. Ofc you may agree or disagree. Being US 2000 is not an insult by any means. 2000 us is a very good rating and that rating really means you are a very good player already. After you openly replied by saying you beat a 2200 player by like 39-1 pretty much, i thought about it and maybe i was honestly wrong about you. I went to look at the video again and honestly i still feel you're 19-2000. Guys, just because they have some good services, some good service returns and some good rallies, THAT DOES NOT qualify them as like 2200+. Not to criticize but I've seen 1800 players have some amazing rallies as well. It';s the fact that for the most part, you're rallies are honestly good quality just not 2200 quality. also, in the first set during the video, I was counting the number of rallies in each point. Therewere only two points in that first game where the two of you had over 3 rallies. I'm sorry but even 2100 players have many many points in each set where they go over 3 rallies. The two of you aren't even really blasting the ball past each other although i really do have to admit that the both of you have some very nice shots. it seems that the two of you usually win the point off you're opening loop and for the most part, that's about it. Once again though, I could be right, i could be wrong. ------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 11:26pm
| If you think rally count has anything to do with level of play, then you don't know much about table tennis. They do get a little sloppy after a while, but they are playing a lot of games here. |
Posted By: Jonan
Date Posted: 07/22/2011 at 11:41pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cXVkeWi_Q - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cXVkeWi_Q Hey, these guys are no name people, what would you say their ratings are? I mean, look at all those bad serve returns and missed loops! I mean hardly any rally made it past 5 hits and those serve errors...what noobs! |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:01am
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1979 U.S. National Champion Attila Malek (in yellow shirt) against Larry Bavly at last year's U.S. Nationals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muK2v1ftTqU&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muK2v1ftTqU&feature=related *Attila - rated 2123 *Larry - rated 2140 I think Attila can give Andy a good match...  Not to say Andy does not deserve a 2350-2450 rating (I think it's not out of line), but the fact is many players here in SoCal do not actually have that rating, even though they should. It's not that easy to earn your deserved rating, actually. Too many ringers and dumpers around who will upset you here and there to pull your rating down in no time. |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:30am
hahaa..... I'm sorry but I don't think you've seen very many 2300-2400 players play each other before.
I've played plenty of guys at 1900 to 2000, I can beat them once in a while even. But this is NOT 2000 level play. for so many reasons.
2300 easy. Funny thing is that I'm pretty sure he used to be a good deal better than he is now too.
Just because his strokes don't look like a chinese province player or something says nothing about his game and shot making.
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Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:44am
you're absolutely correct. however, this was a response to many ppl saying they haev consistent rallies. also, rallies do play a part. it's a fact that 2100+ players are steady and have a good number of rallies often. ------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:46am
beeray, i train and practice at a table tennis club where they host some of the nation's best juniors for their age group. i see players play at 23-2400 lvl DAILY and i know exactly what it takes for ppl to get to that level. i grew up watching some of my friends develop from 1800 players to high 2300 hundred players. guys im not trying to be rude. im just stating my opinion and once again, i could be wrong. i should also clarify what i mean when i brought up that rally count. you guys are correct for the most part. rallies, for the most part, don't dictate your skill. Also Jonan, although I know you're trying to look smart, I will acknowledge your post because you bring up a good fact. In Jonan's video, T.W and J.B do not have points where their rally count is high. that is very true. However, the pace at which the two juniors were playing at, was much faster and much higher level than the pace and level of the video shown here. Just my 2 cents/
------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: ninglei23
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 4:52am
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awesome!!hands down!
------------- Yinhe V-14 FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
Posted By: ninglei23
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 4:56am
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APW46 if you think that 2000 is an insult then just don't ask the people in this forum don't be insulted on other's opinion
------------- Yinhe V-14 FH:Xiom Vega Pro BH:Donic Baracuda |
Posted By: Vassily
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 5:40am
I think you have watched too much youtube highlights. High amateur level TT is firstly about the brain, then service, receive and touch. Winning epic 50-50 rallies actually means almost nothing, less than 5% of points are won that way. Even at top level its just someone getting caught out and stuffing up the short game (with some different definition of stuffing up) and then getting ripped. Sometimes they get a block or minicouterloop back. Or they get predicted and killed. Counterlooping like a god is extremely fun but unfortunately ultimately neligible. Also, older people can make up for it. If an older player looks even remotely good, they are usually terrifying. Most juniors look good running around, superfast feet to opening loop, counterloop, etc. But during a game, experience is everything. When to change tactics, what tactics to use, etc etc. Sometimes the juniors get help from being coached so it can mitigate the experience issue somewhat, but generally people play without coaches. @Wiggy that is some monstrous power from no backswing lol. 30 years worth of touch required to do that? ------------- Nittaku Acoustic FL T05 Acuda S2 2.0mm |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 6:25am
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The reason that there are not many rallies is because honey is not quite of the standard go go with them, thats really why the game score is 22-2 in my favour, I'm a rally player, not always looking to put balls past players, but to wear them down with consistent topspin, its the way I've always played, even when I was younger and fitter, what does not transmit well on clips like this is the amount of topspin, and ball placement, however what you should maybe do, is think about where Honey would be rated, and then work out how much higher a player would have to be to win 20 games on the trot. There is a Youtube clip of me playing the ex world no 33 in 2002 ( Matt Syed) i'll see if I can find it. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 6:29am
Thanks Vassily, emphasis on sweet timing and 'borrowing the power' is the secret. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: mart1243
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 6:47am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-L_ktKP7c - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-L_ktKP7c
Look especially at the second set where Wiggy is playing very well. As for the comments about his rating all I can say is it shows that most US players doesn't have a clue about table tennis.
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Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 7:18am
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Thanks mart1243 you beat me to it, the difference in that clip is of course its in real competition, I had to win my group, then get through 3 rounds of competition before I earned the right to play him, it was the only time I ever made it to the final stages on my national competition. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 7:38am
I only played Honey once previously, that was about 2 yrs ago, he's from another city. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: tomas.gt
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 8:01am
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Here we go again. APW, you dont look like "pro", so no way you can have such high rating. The same old story... I would do probably the same as robin did against you, good chances to win, but not enough. Good play ------------- Kokutaku Bishu no.1 ST - H3N red , BTfly Spinart 2.1 black |
Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 9:30am
I'm saying in a specific defensive position on backhand, do you think a backhand chop or fish is better, or equal or depends on situation or opponent? I've been doing the BH chop recently and was wondering if its a bad habit to develop.
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Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 10:07am
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Definitely depends on the opponent, but on the whole in modern TT and with reverse rubber, a fish is safer against a quality player, but a chop, especially a float/chop works well if you are comfortable. I can think of players that I have to play regularly who would crucify any of the chops I put in against Honey, so I'd be fishing back against them. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: slaplink_pat
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 10:42am
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If I was to rate Andy and Honey... Andy is clearly a 2300+(<2450) level player in USATT ratings and Honey would be at a minimum of 2050. ------------- Blade: Xiom AZX FH: Xiom Omega VII China Guang BH: DHS PF4 Blade: Donic Alligator Combi FH: TIbhar MXP BH: Spinlord Zeitgeist |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 10:58am
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Andy, how in the name of all that's holy do you produce that high quality chop with the fast inverted rubber you are using? If I could learn that stroke, I would be as happy as a pig in the barnyard. I absolutely love playing games where I break my opponents rhythm (many of my opponents are blockers) by switching between chop defense and attacking. However, a year ago, when I switched from Mendo 1.8mm to Acuda S3 2.0mm the only shot that I suddenly lost (going from firm sponge to soft, from allround thickness to 2.0mm) was a consistent chop. Everything else (soft touch play, blocking, attacking and counterattacking) is at least equal or better... But the elasticity and catapult of this modern tensor makes chopping a nightmare for me. Sad to say, but I have to break out another whole set of equipment (a slower blade with reflectoid 1.5mm) if I want to produce spinny, controlled chops. I would love to be able to do it without switching gear. So is it just your years of experience with the stroke? What sort of adjustments are necessary when you compare thin inverted chopping to chopping with obviously offensive rubber? ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 11:29am
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Don't try and chop too hard, too low and play as deep as you can, but most of all, don't be scared of the spin, execute a positive stroke. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: Jonan
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:05pm
I wouldn't call them juniors...however the American mentality seems to be, go as hard as you can, as soon as you can, so we don't appreciate the more European mentality of touch and finesse. It's a different style and set of skills, different strategies. The players here push really hard to keep the other person from being able to make his really hard opening loop, so they both make a lot of errors. Just because someone else doesn't adhere to doing every shot as hard as they can, and build up a point without risking it all on every shot, doesn't make them worse... |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:05pm
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Out of all your strokes, I've always admire your BH Wiggy.. I wish I can learn that.. I like how you use short swing to loop the ball even far from the table, and it is very consistent too.. Probably the secret is on the wrist. It is one of your strong point IMO. And boy, I think this is the first time I see you kill so many opening ball on the FH, your timing is excellent. ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 2:20pm
you have some very good points but i definitely do not agree with the way you talk about high amtateur tt. brain -> service -> receive -> touch? I've never heard of such an order. Mental toughness and using ur brain in matches is VERY important but not nearly as important as your table tennis touch. You can be very smart,mentally tough, but if you haev not developed a good table tennis touch, it is impossible for you to execute good shots. After watching the second video of APW playing, I definitely agree now that he not quite worth the 19-2000 rating i gave him previously. It is because he has good table tennis touch he is able to rip his bh so effectively. Forgive me, In that first video I felt like you looked that way (19-2000). However, my rating was only given to judge that video. That video may not display all his skill thus i gave him a lower rating. ------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: Vassily
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 7:06pm
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Hmm, I think my writing was a bit off. I was trying to say that brain is the most important, then followed by the other 3 in some order. Of course if someone has hopeless touch then they are screwed. But then if they are hopeless at serve receive they are screwed too. Or if they are hopeless at standing on their feet. So I am talking about most matches of TT, where usually both sides have some chance to win. In those matches it is usually brain, i.e. the level of concentration (which goes up and down for both), mindset, nervousness control, etc which is the main decider. TT is very psychological. ------------- Nittaku Acoustic FL T05 Acuda S2 2.0mm |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/24/2011 at 4:00pm
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next part If anyone is interested; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukB16_giHUo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukB16_giHUo ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: Speedplay
Date Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:39pm
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From what I've seen of USATT rated players, Honey would be well above 2000. Biggy would most likely hoover around 2400.
Impressive reactions and not only are you able to get to the ball, you also find the time to counter. I know one thing is for sure, if I ever get to play you, I wouldn't try to beat you with speed, al though I don't think you are a hack when it comes to dealing with spin either. ------------- The holy grail |
Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:40pm
A reason for the wild comments on his rating, is because you guys are using unfamiliar euro technique. Most high rated players here use flamboyant long strokes(japanese/korean/chinese style) I remember the first time a lad from the uk came to our club, I also severely underrated him, that is until I played him :D
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Posted By: Stoi
Date Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:45pm
| Andy your game is ok but Robin needs to work on many things as he gives you many easy shots and lose easy points, though you know each others game very well. Do you also train or you just play games? |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:46pm
who was He? ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:48pm
No we don't train with each other at all, that was the first time we played for about 2 yrs, before that never. I don't know about Honey, I think he trains quite a bit, I have a coaching school, so I coach mainly thesedays, but In the past I've trained virtually full time, a long time ago though.
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 12:03am
Good observation. This mentality exists in American tennis as well. Just look at Roddick and Blake's style --- a lot of effort and hustle without much results. They're two charging bulls compared to the gazelle like Federer. Thanks to coaches like Nick Bollettieri, the American tennis factory will continue to produce players like them. In TT, Chen Wei Xing and Bastien Steger come to mind. There's nothing graceful about their games. |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 12:53am
And the stamina is there. This is what matters. Ratings are subjective and therefore empty.
BTW, all dharmas are empty.
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Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 1:02am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtTgk-yv5rg&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtTgk-yv5rg&feature=related
this is another good video- VS Greg Letts.
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Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 4:59am
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: addoydude
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 10:39am
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Allround Classic? Wow, that's a painfully slow blade! ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon H3 NEO / 388-D1 |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 11:29am
| Slow but powerful. And the feel is superb. |
Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 11:46am
Nice videos. relentless bh.  -------- I'd say its accurate you are between 2350-2499 USATT rating...... Maybe mid-2400. You are probably just above these guys: But probably lower than these guys because they are more athletic and have more power: ------------- 
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Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 1:10pm
Yes it is, but can you hear the dwell? great for counter-looping and being pro-active with incoming topspin, rather than having to block/ play passively. I used to play with slow blade and loads of sp/glue, T05 gives me the nearest feeling to that. Also, The slow blade allows for a higher arcing loop trajectory, something that many opponents find quite hard top deal with, but is less risky for me. Basically Fatt summed my game up perfectly, I'm not too dynamic, but if you want to trade loops I go with it, rather than try to stop it. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 4:22pm
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For those looking for some honest perspective, please note that Wiggy is ranked around 80 in the UK. Competitive table tennis is generally more popular in the UK than the US. I'm going to guess that the UK has at least as many regular competitive players as we have here. A quick sort of male player ratings on the USATT site shows the number 80 player rated at 2411. The 200th players is rated 2262. The US equivalent of Wiggy might be a player more like Danny Seemiller from the standpoint of playing history, age and level. I do think the playing style throws many people off. What they don't catch so easily is that Wiggy seems to almost always be in a good position to make a good play on the ball. He's well ahead of the play. A sure sign of experience and high level. People here often talk about strokes, power and gear. But simply staying on balance, reading how the play is unfolding, and making sure you are in the right position to make a play are all huge components of good play. I have some "wonderful" video clips of me making blocks that are nearly impossible from the standpoint of human reflexes. But its hard to find players who are much better than me exhibiting such shots. The reason is simple. They avoid the necessity by being in better position (especially table distance). High level table tennis is not necessarily flashy of flamboyant. It is also difficult to judge spin via video. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 4:31pm
Just another example that you don't need especially fast gear to play at a high level. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 4:53pm
Well thank you there wturber, for a good insight to the differences from each side of the pond. I think on a forum such as this it is important to share knowledge, but at times hard to put across as one would like it to be received. The reason I can be competitive to a good standard even at my age, and lets face it lack of mobility, is because of the way I play, I'm definitely not saying there is any kind of short cut ( I've put the hours in) but there are different ways of approaching the game, I know the general ethos in USA is to play a more positive Chinese style, we could look on numerous threads about Chinese vs Euro f/hands, But it really worries me when I see countless players trying to adopt a technique that they are never going to get anywhere near perfecting. I do regularly beat young players, faster, fitter, more mobile than me ( I also regularly lose to them), but I am always in the match, because the heavy topspin stops them steam-rollering straight through me, in effect it either slows them down to my pace, or they beat me, if they beat me, that is it, if I can ( through their FORCED errors) slow them down, I usually beat them, because I take them out of their comfort zone, and will counter loop on both wings consistently. In a nutshell, if you are 15, have money and resources to improve, ignore me, if you are 20 plus, have limited time and money to improve, follow my dictum. But most of all, If you are not part of a national elite program, and wish to play competitively after the age of 40, forget trying to develop a 'Chinese Loop' Putting yr back out at 32 is painful, and will signify the end of your career
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 5:40pm
| Bold and well said. I'm terrible with names, don't remember the uk lad's. |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 6:46pm
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What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament. About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player. ------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: tdragon
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 7:17pm
Please don't put any stupid comment about many people in general.
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Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 9:12pm
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 9:15pm
I don't know one way or the other who would win. I'd probably bet on Seemiller because he competes more frequently (I think) and is more fit. Also, he's from the U.S. :^) If we backed the clock up to 2008 or earlier, I'd be even more inclined to bet on Seemiller. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't rate Wiggy around 2400. As for ratings, any actual rating should be considered as +/- 50 points - at a minimum. For players who play often enough to have fairly stable ratings numbers, being within that 100 point range means essentially being the same level. Style match-ups and how much each player is on his game is what will decide the match. When the gap spreads to between 100-200 points, you can start betting money. You'll lose from time to time, but you'll win a lot more. Past 200, you can predict the outcome with even greater confidence. After 300 points you are in the better than 90% chance of predicting the outcome range. But even at these more extreme ratings gaps, I think style match-ups loom large and have a huge impact on outcomes. I saw two nearly 400 point upsets last weekend in best of five matches. Danny Seemiller has lost to a player rated below 2300 twice in the last two years. It's a rare event, but it happens. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/25/2011 at 10:19pm
well said ------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 3:35am
Two things. Seemiller would beat you if he seriously prepared for a tournament. He's just too good a player despite his age. The ratings doesn't take that into account. This is a guy who was about the same level as Alan Cooke at his best with similar type of results. In fact I've seen him beat Desmond Douglas twice. At the same time you both would have similar ratings +/- 50. The second para was me trying to put a USA 2300 player into a ETTA ranking context. Jay, saying that Seemiller lost to 2300 players is not unusual and says very little. Tell me about the players he lost to. Where are they now? How old were they? If they were Seemiller's age it means one thing. If they were upcoming sharp, trained juniors, it's another. Seemiller must be pushing 60. Was he prepared or was he just playing for fun? It's all about context. Rating is just a small part, yet US forumers make it the biggest part. Have you seen Waldner's record? You wouldn't believe the low rating of some of the players he lost to, even at his peak. That's why I said that you have to look at tournaments where both players have prepared for. And look at the players themselves. Ratings is just one part. Even in Wiggy's case, his rating/ranking does not take account of the vast majority of his matches. Same for most in Europe. ------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 5:19am
Tinykin, you have to take into account age and the fact that the game advances, I recently beat John Hilton, Now I don't for a minute believe that it was for any other reason than the fact that he's 65 yrs old, Its the same with Danny Seemillar, I think he was quoted because of how he plays NOW, not 25 yrs ago, when he would be in the top 3 in USA. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 5:23am
Was he left handed? sounds like Mike Levene, played him many times, when he was in UK he was ranked around 180. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 9:23am
If APW46 only uses 1.9 on BH, then I better stay off the MAX .APW46 - if you can share the reason for using 1.9 on the BH, it would be great, as I see that you have a very strong BH, and often play away from the table, I would think 2.1 would be better for you. (I am not questioning your choice of rubber, just trying to understand it for my own benefit). |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 9:55am
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1.9 is the normal thickness of Tenergy to use on the BH, either that or 1.7 for most Europeans, they are much more sensible when it comes to sponge than Americans are. You want to be able to get the ball on the blade at your full power soooooo many players cant do that with max sponge. Tenergy makes a distinctive sound when it's at it's limits and it's not something you hear very often amongst tenergy users. I would say at least 90% of club players can't hit hard enough to qualify for 2.1 T05 |
Posted By: ZJKandMLfan
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 10:08am
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i went up to erie to play a couple times where seemiller and his group of juniors regularly go up there to play. seemiller does not prepare for tournaments nor does he practice hard. he just coaches his players and trains with them. you will not really see him drill to upgrade or maintain his own standards. It's the fact that danny has such a good foundation that even with limited practice, he can keep up with most. also, look at danny's match history. very rarely does he lost to senior players who are his age or lower. he mainly loses to juniors ------------- Blade: Photino FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX BH: Tenergy 64, MAX |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 10:40am
More control, it allows me to play a heavy topspin to a quick incoming ball, so I can slow the tempo of the rally in my favour, it probably does not come across too well in the clips, but my b/hand topspin is loaded, and I also like the feeling of the ball bottoming out when I flat hit. So my b/hand is constantly varying and working the ball, the f/hand is just the hammer that knocks the nail in. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 11:45am
I see. I found that I too play better with 2.0 or less on the BH, but I thought that was because I punch, block, and hit more than loop. It's good to know that even for someone playing top spin like you, thinner rubber on the BH is still a benefit. Thank you for the clear response. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 1:31pm
That is not what I said. I quite clearly said that it was "a rare event."
Danny Seemiller is 56 or 57 years old. Four to five years older than me. The most recent of those two losses was to Fred Cantarelli. Fred is a college player, but is not having a rapid climb in level. He has improved less than 100 points over the last three years. The other was Tung D. Phan who has been between 2200-2300 for the last 16 years. I don't know his age.
I've never seen Danny Seemiller just play for fun in a tournament. That's one thing I really like about him - his intensity, drive and focus. Yes, context and situation matter. So do playing styles. I went through a fair bit of trouble to say that and to give some idea of the degree of precision that you can expect from a USATT rating. You said that there was "no way" that Wiggy would beat Seemiller in a serious tournament. I'm simply saying that it is certainly possible if their levels are even in the ballpark of each other. I'd still bet on Seemiller (sorry Wiggy). Knowing a person's rating gives you an idea of what is possible and likely. But it isn't the final say by a long shot. That's why we play the match. I was surprised to see Seemiller lose this match even though the ratings levels were similar between the players. Seemiller did beat Avishy a month later in straight games at the 2010 US Open. Sorry for the shaky video. I was on the way out, ready to drive back to Arizona, when I saw this close match ending and had no tripod available. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 2:52pm
Sure. Sakda was rated 2376 to Seemiller's 2461. If your rating is within 100 points of your opponent, you need to take each other very seriously. Of the four matches between these two, this one that Seemiller lost was the one where the ratings gap was narrowest. Ratings do convey some degree of useful information - even if far too many players overestimate what is being communicated. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: stevejackson900
Date Posted: 09/06/2012 at 2:21pm
| Thats awesome i would agree. Thumbs up for this one |
Posted By: collins.latag
Date Posted: 09/07/2012 at 9:25pm
I think you are at 2400. Your style of play is not all flashy but the consistency is indeed there. ------------- PPisLife Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic |
Posted By: collins.latag
Date Posted: 09/07/2012 at 9:30pm
Wow... the great Ernesto Ebuen. :) He is indeed a very good player and a very good coach! His dad who is also named Ernesto is fun to watch as well. :) ------------- PPisLife Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic |
Posted By: collins.latag
Date Posted: 09/07/2012 at 9:52pm
LOL... i'm sure they are ranked way higher than me. (just to be on the safe side) :P. Anyone could feel the power they emphasize to open each rally. :) ------------- PPisLife Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 09/07/2012 at 11:30pm
Will take this to heart going forward - it will be my inspiration for how to develop my game. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |