Critique my game #3
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Topic: Critique my game #3
Posted By: dingyibvs
Subject: Critique my game #3
Date Posted: 11/09/2011 at 11:22pm
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So, it’s been a few months since my last video post asking for critique. Thanks to everyone once again for giving me some very good advice! Previous threads: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42471&title=critique-my-game - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42471&title=critique-my-game http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43991&title=critique-my-game-2 - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43991&title=critique-my-game-2 I’ve been able to make some improvements in technique, mostly in the following areas: 1) Backhand – My BH loops have become more powerful, and I can launch them more naturally now without thinking. Still far from being fluid, but I’ve made some improvements in both power and control. 2) Forehand – I ended up completely revamping my FH motion, especially against backspins. Right now, I think my new motion is still a bit stiff and limited to the arms(gonna have to work on these), but it’s helped a ton regarding consistency and placement. 3) Footwork – I’ve made some improvements in this area, though it’s been coming on slow. At least now I can step around to hit FH shots much more often, resulting in me attempting less BH shots. I still get lazy too often and stop moving though. Grip - Almost forgot to mention, I also made a fairly big change in my grip. I used to have very different grips for the FH and BH. On FH, I used to have the index finger ride almost vertically up the rubber, and I held the handle fairly low. On BH, I used to hold just the bevel, very loosely, with the thumb and the index finger so my racket could rotate quite a bit in my hand. Now, I have the same grip(standard shallow grip, with the thumb on the bevel and not the rubber) for both FH and BH. For comparison’s sake, the following two videos are against the same opponent I played in the last two threads. At the time of the first thread, I beat the guy once in basically never. At the time of the second thread, I beat him maybe once in 10-15 tries. As of now, thanks in no small part to everyone’s help, I’ve finally risen above him! These days, I basically never lose to him as long as I try and I’m not trying out some drastically new equipment/technique. Anyhow, here are the two matches I played against him last night(2nd match's audio sync is a bit off): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-3fgM3GCVQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-3fgM3GCVQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWKI9keKFlQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWKI9keKFlQ Any suggestion is welcome, thanks! ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Replies:
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 11/09/2011 at 11:40pm
| Nothing wrong with your forehand loop so you probably want to stop using it so much and concentrate on getting an over the table bh flip instead of a push and a hit the backhand a bit more to get that up to the same level. I see a couple times you got boxed in on the backhand trying to hit a forehand and a good player would mess you up doing that. But yeah doing well so far, just try and get some more variation and more shots |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:07am
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Your game is looking good! Pretty much what bluebucket said would be good to work on. Also, you could work on more aggressive pushes and definitely more serves. But, I would love to see you play some other people like some standard two wing loopers that are close to your level. You probably play the Jpen guy alot I would assume. Jpen players can have some wicked serves. Your forehand looks much better now and you have good backhand motion. I appreciate your vids, thanks again for posting. ------------- |
Posted By: ikaros
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:07am
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you are doing so much better than before. when you use your forehand loop. get back a little more and use your waist instead of your arm alone. that would give you more power and spin. ------------- Galaxy Yinhe W6 penhold Fh: Yasaka Rakza 7 2.0 Bh: Butterfly Cermet 2.1 |
Posted By: stefashka
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:28am
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Looks good. Yeah, some flicks from FH and BH in the table play would be great. Also, I think you need to improve recovery after FH loops - you seem to stay with your hand above your head for too long and this lessens time preparing for the next shot. With faster opponents, slow recovery can cause more trouble. Maybe it's connected with what you call "stiffness" in your loop - try to relax your hand right after the ball leaves the racket. Also, try to get the ball a bit more in front of your body - it''ll improve quality of your shots. ------------- Darker 7P-2A CP - Dignics 09c, TSP Curl P3α |
Posted By: Blossomoo
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 12:33am
| i tried to stealthedit my post to include links to xbox live keys but instead got pwnd by the moderators. |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 1:00am
| So many 清天白日满地红. Where's your club located? |
Posted By: esnift
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 2:35am
You're game is looking good. The only feedback I would give is that when you hit a forehand loop, your momentum seems to pause at the end of your stroke like you don't expect the ball to come back (which it didn't most of the time  ). Once you start playing opponents that can return a loop, you might be in a precarious situation if the end-of-stroke-pause becomes a habit. Just bring it back to ready position after a big loop. ------------- YE Hurricane III Tenergy 05fx |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 3:12pm
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Thanks folks! Yea the slow return to ready position is quite a problem for me, gives me a lot of trouble when the opponent returns the ball back very quickly, I'll definitely have to correct that. I think it'll help if I loosen up a bit. I have some BH flicks, but my FH flicks are in the early development phase still, I only used it once in the matches I posted, I think. This particular opponent, Shek, plays me pretty often obviously so he knows that very well. If you'll notice, he almost never serves to my BH side, because he knows that long or short, it'll be attacked(he did it so rarely it sometimes caught me off guard in the two matches I posted). If he can serve it short to my FH though, he knows I can only push, which is why he almost always serves short(or at least try to) to my FH. He actually used to serve almost exclusively to my BH, the man adapts quickly! I think this'll be the last vid I post of me against this guy, I'll try to record myself against better, more aggressive players next time. My club is in Miami, seems to be run by mostly people from Hong Kong? Those flags do suggest Taiwan though! ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: Kashuken
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 3:39pm
| @dingyibvs you have very good consistent loop but I noticed that your elbow ends up too high. IMHO this is (partially) because you are looping more upward instead of more forward. See if you can get a feeling of throwing your hand (as if you are drawing a circle) instead of elbow for your forehand loops. |
Posted By: Stoi
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 7:32pm
| Is your equipment on your signature the one you used to play this game? I think your bh is faster then your fh. Also you have two red rubbers?!? |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 8:39pm
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You are definetly improving and members have given you good advice, I would suggest you add in some more variety in your serves which all tend to go long, it may have suited this game as your opponent didn't attack too many giving you a good chance of looping third ball, but against better players that may attack your long serve it won't be as effective, so some two bounce serves and using the angles better ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 8:51pm
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Yea, I'm still afraid of missing, so I kind of finish upward more than forward, I'm gonna start trying to finish my motion a bit more forward now.
Yes, I'm playing with the setup in my sig, and yes the moon is quite a bit quicker, less effort is needed to extract speed out of it, which is why I'm keeping it on my BH. On full speed strikes the moon offers little speed advantage but has less spin and dwell. As an aside on equipment, I think the F3/T88-I combo is extremely good for someone learning a FH stroke, as it's very soft(the blade is ayous-basswood-carbokev-kiri construction) and pretty flexible. Amazing control near and off the table, and great power if I can get a full swing, which unfortunately, I didn't execute a single one of in my 2 videos. After I learn how to extract power better on my own, I'll switch to a harder, 5-ply wood blade my cousin recommended me(Hurricane H-WN, KLH/P500/OC structure), so I have some crispness in the closer to the table attacks. He also recommended me using H3P 39 on FH and Donic F1 on BH, so I might switch rubbers to that too. As for the 2 red rubbers, I didn't get a sheet of black Moon 38 until yesterday, so I had to play with 2 red rubbers that day. I do have a bit trouble of keeping spinny services short, but against this opponent I intentionally served long with little spin to counter his LP returns. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 11:24pm
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Two things: First, and more important, use antiperspirant of some kind; this is gross, and I wouldn't wana play near you. Second, your FH, even though pretty good with respect to speed and % on the table, is coming a bit late. I keep getting the feeling that the ball is about to pass you and you definitely missed it this time, but somehow you manage to swing just on time and make it. I feel you shouldn't wait so much. ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: delfam
Date Posted: 11/10/2011 at 11:52pm
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kinda mechanical and doesn't seem you have a good feel for the game in general, but I guess that'll come in time. Not very light on your feet. You do need a backhand loop though. You just push it everytime and in times when you have the advantage you have to go on the attack which you can't do it seems on your backhand.
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Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 11/11/2011 at 12:42am
lol, I wish antiperspirants were the answer! I bring like 5 headbands to the club each time, and I run through them all in 4 hours  The trick is really to wear a ping pong specific shirt, as they're much more breathable and sweat doesn't show.I agree I hit too late, I think it ties into my entire FH mechanics. The slow return to ready position forces me to take the ball late, for one. The upward motion also favors taking the ball late, while a more forward motion would favor taking the ball a bit early. I don't now if it's because of my upward looping motion that I take the ball late, or it's because I'm not ready in time that I favor an upward motion. Maybe it's just a vicious cycle, but I'm gonna work on both at the same time to make sure that's taken care of. Delfam: I think the observation that I don't have a great feel for the ball is very right...my motions just don't look fluid in general. Hopefully you're right that it'll come with time. I've only been playing for a year really(in my pre-teen years I played some at school with friends so I wasn't quite starting at 0), and I've been adjusting my technique and unfortunately also equipment quite often, so it's been tough to be comfortable around the table. As for my BH, I actually used to attack almost everything that comes that way. You can see that especially well in the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nLgOT39Hvs - 2nd and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vciMlaJL78s - 3rd video in the 2nd "Critique my game" thread. I don't play matches to win, per se, I play them for practice purposes. During the time of my 2nd "Critique" thread, I was focusing on improving my BH. Right now, I'm focusing on footwork and getting comfortable with my revamped FH. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
assiduous wrote:Posted By: rpbnakata
Date Posted: 11/11/2011 at 4:44am
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First thing I noticed was the same esnift did: your recovering time after forehanding is too long. You should stroke and be ready in position again right after that. And your legs+hips are slightly stiff. Do the same ZJK does: bounce togheter with the ball. ------------- Phenom st/BW3/Ω3Euro ● Photino st/Ω4Pro/R7S ● Speed 90 fl/Vega Euro/S3 |
Posted By: delfam
Date Posted: 11/11/2011 at 7:19am
| ok, saw the backhand in that video. It's pretty good but you need to feel like your pushing outwards with the bh and then flick the wrist. Looks like your using your arm and swinging to much, going in like a circular motion. Should me more of a slight arc than a looping motion. |
Posted By: dalamchops
Date Posted: 11/11/2011 at 7:26am
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haven't a tighter serve will help your game tremendously. Contact point is too high.
------------- Stiga Titanium 5.4 Cpen Andro Hexer Pips 2.1 Donic Acuda S2 Max |
Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 11/12/2011 at 9:59am
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the rafa nadal top spin dingy just works to your partner. it is not good to play tennis instead of table tennis. maybe it is fun but try your partner and you to concentrate a little more to be more competitive. -------------  EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh);  InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 01/07/2012 at 8:09pm
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Played in my first tournament today! As luck would have it, Shek happened to be in my group. It felt good beating him in a real tournament :D Since it was my first tournament, I couldn't advance past the group stage, but I did beat the everyone in my group, including the highest rated guy in my category(U-1900), an 1800+ guy. I felt like I was too nervous and played too stiff, and I had way too much trouble than I should have against the 1800 guy and Shek(handled the 3rd guy, some 1450 player, pretty easily). Tomorrow I'll play in the U-2300, where I'll no doubt get destroyed, but there'll be no pressure so I can just play loose at least! ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 01/07/2012 at 10:50pm
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Congratulations on the group win; taking down a US1800+ player in your first tournament is tremendous! Good luck in the U2300; pull off a big upset win! ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/07/2012 at 11:17pm
| Congrats. So you are now at least 1800! Lose tomorrow and you get placed somewhere in between your lowest loss and a highest win. |
Posted By: kickass
Date Posted: 01/07/2012 at 11:27pm
| did your opponent in the video have pips (LP?) in the backhand? |
Posted By: tpgh2k
Date Posted: 01/07/2012 at 11:36pm
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lol are you using 2 red rubbers?? ------------- www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis Timo Boll Spirit FL H3 Blue Sponge Black FH Tenergy 64 Red BH |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 01/08/2012 at 12:24am
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Thanks for the congrats! I was having some doubts when I lost the first set of the first match and was down 8-10 in the second. I really struggled getting my mindset right, as I was super uptight in the beginning, then I tried to think about other things to calm my nerves and I became completely distracted. I'd say I ended up playing at around the same level as in the video, even though I've improved considerably since then. My opponent does play with LP's, Grass D. Tecs, on his BH. Haven't played against him or any other LP player since the club in the video shut down a few weeks ago, almost forgot how to play it today! I was indeed playing with 2 red rubbers in the video, since I was searching for rubbers to match my new blade(back then, the Sanwei F3) and the two that worked the best together were both red. I'm using the setup in my sig now, just got the T64 last week :) ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 01/08/2012 at 1:59am
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Hi, Great game and congratulations on your success so far. If I may be so bold, I would make a couple of comments. 1) In terms of recovery, I think that what might help you is that if you make your recovery part of your full swing pattern. Notice here how Ma Long in practice is recovering with his full body after the stroke and the racket recovery plane is different from the forward hitting plane. The whole body including is hands comes back to the ready position as part of the overall pattern. http:///www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8JEwwA0Jl4 - http:///www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8JEwwA0Jl4 So in terms of practice, it might help you to make sure that when you recover, you are recovering into the neutral position using a different plane of recovery. However, the body is still turning. You would not be just dropping the blade. Maintaining unity of motion is critical to creating the smooth flow that you are seeking. 2) This may be controversial but I believe that your swing is too long for the modern game. I think it would help you if you can shorten the swing but still maintaining your great feel and spin by accelerating into the ball using a complete release of your full body after compressing it during the preparation stage. Again, Zhang Jike and Ma Long videos is helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUkg3e-jRss - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUkg3e-jRss http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpXuiYap94 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpXuiYap94 Both loop strokes have a more forward with tremendous acceleration (super human speed), and recoveries are effortlessly quick probably because relax the body very quickly after contact. Of course, there are many players that have longer swings and if you can recover quickly enough, it doesn't really matter. But I've been taught that the modern game does suggest shorter strokes. Hope this helps somewhat. And thanks for sharing some great videos!
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Posted By: IanMcg
Date Posted: 01/08/2012 at 2:04am
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You have a very good loop, but as the others said you need to recover faster
What I learned to do is think of the recovery as part of the stroke (thanks to whoever told me that-I can't quite remember) And it does work! |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 01/08/2012 at 2:57am
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Zhang Jike has a pretty compact motion, but Ma Long has a pretty long stroke when he's not up against the table like in the video. In contrast, I think the modern game actually favors a longer stroke, but our definitions of modern might be different since I'm still pretty young and back-in-the-days to me is the 90's. I've definitely worked on my recovery considerably the past couple of months. I haven't really gotten to the more forward motion part though. If you've read some of my other posts, you'd know that I prefer to work on one or two things at a time, and mostly I've been working on putting all parts of my game together fluidly since this video. I'm still in the process of integrating my BH strokes into my game, including transitioning between FH and BH. I do use more strokes that have a lot of forward motion right now, akin to the one I used in my earlier videos, but I don't have anything really in between right now. I hadn't really worked on my FH looping vs. topspin in quite a while until very recently, because I identified the opening loop as the most important aspect at my level. I mean, how often do you see low level players being able to warm-up like a champ and then get into the game and struggle to land a single loop? Heck, take the 1450 player I played today, I swear the guy looped like he was 2000 during warmups, and then the game started and he couldn't loop worth shiz. I think he only managed one sucessful opening loop the whole match, and that was a weak one that I drove right back. Even now, I try to work on my opening loop from both wings whenever I can. Recently though, I've been playing at a club with many 2000+ level players, and they don't give weak blocks back when I land an opening loop, so I've had a lot of practice with quicker recovery and counter-looping(still not good enough to really use in games unless the incoming loops are weak). I'll have to record a new one soon to judge my progress.
------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: strikewzen
Date Posted: 01/08/2012 at 6:40pm
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at the same time during backswing, might as well hop into a better position by the standard 2 step to create optimal arm span, so you don't get squeezed playing with forearm only and someone with your power output might consider using a much slower rubber against club players if you hit an outright winners... you miss out the practice, which you will need against pros someday i think you have what it takes to be pro... just need good coach man |
Posted By: Swiff
Date Posted: 01/08/2012 at 6:59pm
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Seems like you're playing pretty good! You're forehand seems very consistent. :) I agree with an above post that the recovery speed of your forehand attacks needs work. I imagine if some players block your 3rd ball forehand loop quickly you'll have trouble hitting the next ball. Anyway, keep it up! :D ------------- 
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Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 01/10/2012 at 1:14am
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Thanks for all the encouragement and advice! My second day at the tournament didn't go so well, didn't win a match. In fact, I'm kinda embarrassed that I didn't even win a single set :( I really shoulda beaten the lowest rated player I played on Sunday, an 1875 guy, but I do tend to struggle vs. his style(control player), as they tend to discover my weak backhand quickly and force everything there effective. If I step around, they'd hit wide to my FH, and right now I just don't have the consistency to overpower them. Anyhow, with my best win being against an 1810 guy and my worst loss being to an 1875 guy, I expect my initial rating to be somewhere around there. Anyhow, I'll try to record another one soon and see if I can get some more advice! BTW, working on recovery has really helped me quite a bit in FH rallies, I'm gonna have to get my BH up to speed and then work BH recovery and FH/BH transitions into my game more. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: seguso
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 6:03am
You have improved a lot since the first video, to the point you look like a different player. Forehand is good but it seems you could use your body a bit more. It looks like you think a lot before starting the swing. The racket also seems better, now it seems to have dwell. The pace of the game is very slow. I would like to see your recovery time against a close-to-table blocker with inverted rubbers. In general I'd like to see you against a good push-blocker. And I'd like to see you in fast rallies, to see how you change from forehand to backhand and viceversa. Kudos for the improvement! :) ------------- pg5x - mxd fh & bh - https://youtu.be/dBMqj0CN7XU" rel="nofollow - 2015 video |
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 12:16pm
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FH loop mechanics- The follow through on your stroke is causing your CG to shift to the back limit. You seem to be on the verge of falling off balance at he end of almost every shot. No doubt this has a big impact on your recovery time as you are using valuable time recovering your balance. I think part of the reason for this is because you are using a lot of muscles in your shoulder and upper arm to generate power for the swing instead of the legs and torso. A suggestion that may help is to "fold" at hip more. Make the angle formed by the right shoulder, hip and knee more acute on the back swing... Hold on. Just look at this vid of a kettle bell swing and imagine it is your loop stroke. Pay attention to the shoulder, hip and knee coordination. By the way this is how I weight train for my loop. Works really well because swinging the weight makes your more aware of momentum during the stroke. If you were swinging a weight the way you normally loop you would quickly realize how your stroke is taking you off balance. If you try this make sure you do not use a heavy weight to begin with(no more than 10-15lbs or 5-7kgs). Swing starts at 1:20. |
Posted By: L2Pivot
Date Posted: 02/16/2012 at 5:02pm
Second this. Your large backswing is causing you to go off balance meaning that you are only limited to your arm to make a decent stroke. What you want to do is to make your hitting area (or 'power pocket' if you've seen any of Brian Pace's videos  ) further in front of you. This means you can use more of your body mass to pile speed onto the ball.Take Zhang Jike's backswing for example. No matter how high the ball is, he still winds it up somewhere near his knee. That way, he ensures he always hits the ball in front of him with the most power possible: Or you can always switch to a Euro forehand and chicken-wing it relatively risk-free.  ------------- -YEO FL- (DHS H3 Neo Provincial 40°) (Butterfly Tenergy 64) ★★★★★ 中国,加油! |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 02/17/2012 at 12:28pm
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My back hurt just from looking at that video. But I can see the relevance to developing a powerful loop. Good find. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |