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Topic ClosedPushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by Gr8GrZ Gr8GrZ wrote:

What is said above might be true, but however it is the LP player that does not have a well rounded game, not the other way around.


Are you talking about all LP players or just Pushblocker? 


good point! Nobody who has Joo S Hyuk or Chen Weixing in mind will say all LP players are not well-rounded. :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

  PB has shown plenty of arrogance in his posts, no doubt... But both of you have shown plenty of ignorance by slinging mud anonymously against him and the LP style.  Statements like "u don't have any technique" and  "shows how much U rely on the long pips" are utterly ridiculous and baseless.

I would put my money on PB against both of you.  Put up your videos or shut up for once.  Wink
 
Perhaps if I had accomplished what PB has done, I'd also be arrogant/proud. There's a thin/fine line between the two. 
I'd love to be a State Champion. I think I need to move to the Big Island.LOL


Big Island is tough too... Big smile
Adam Bobrow (who beat PB in San Diego) went to Big Island Open a few weeks ago to conquer it all, but lost in the semifinals to the eventual runner-up... There's a video of the match somewhere.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Big Island is tough too... Big smile
Adam Bobrow (who beat PB in San Diego) went to Big Island Open a few weeks ago to conquer it all, but lost in the semifinals to the eventual runner-up... There's a video of the match somewhere.
 
I did pretty well there at the Hilo Club this summer. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Big Island is tough too... Big smile
Adam Bobrow (who beat PB in San Diego) went to Big Island Open a few weeks ago to conquer it all, but lost in the semifinals to the eventual runner-up... There's a video of the match somewhere.
 
I did pretty well there at the Hilo Club this summer. Wink


I love Big Island.  My wife and I went there last year and snorkeled every day for an entire week.  LOL

Perhaps the three of us (you, PB and I) could play in a Big Island Open next year.  That should be fun!  Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Big Island is tough too... Big smile
Adam Bobrow (who beat PB in San Diego) went to Big Island Open a few weeks ago to conquer it all, but lost in the semifinals to the eventual runner-up... There's a video of the match somewhere.
 
I did pretty well there at the Hilo Club this summer. Wink


I love Big Island.  My wife and I went there last year and snorkeled every day for an entire week.  LOL

Perhaps the three of us (you, PB and I) could play in a Big Island Open next year.  That should be fun!  Tongue
I'd love to play the Hawaii Open.. Both, me and my wife love the Big Island.. We were there in 2008.. I hope to make it there in the next 1 - 2 years.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:


I love Big Island.  My wife and I went there last year and snorkeled every day for an entire week.  LOL
Perhaps the three of us (you, PB and I) could play in a Big Island Open next year.  That should be fun!  Tongue
 
I'd love to go back!! It was one of my BEST vacations.
 
 
We did the snorkling near Capt Cook's Monument, rode the helicopter and endless Mai Tai's.ClapClap
So nice when you wake up to 80 degrees in the morning and take a dip in the ocean.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2010 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:


That would be great if you could get to a new level for the style you play. Being the best at what you do in the county would be something special.



I believe that CURRENTLY, I'm the highest rated NON-ATTACKING long pips blocker in the country. However, one player like that has reached a higher level in 2005 than I'm currently at..
 

In a ranking of ALL long pips blockers, including those who attack a lot, I'm usually between 5th and 7th in the country.. Right now, none of them is in the 2400's.. We have Sakda Timsuwan, Rob Van Lier, John-Mark Wetzler, Robert Shahnazari and Duc Loi who are currently higher rated than me.. However, all of them frequently attack.
While watching this video (and others in the past) I was often wondering why you BH LP pushed on high short balls that seemed like obvious sitting ducks for a BH LP hit or roll which as you noted elsewhere in this thread, are rarely returned. What is your strategy in those situations?

Also, I'm wondering how you fare against attacking players who use MP or SP on their backhands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2010 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by nathanso nathanso wrote:

While watching this video (and others in the past) I was often wondering why you BH LP pushed on high short balls that seemed like obvious sitting ducks for a BH LP hit or roll which as you noted elsewhere in this thread, are rarely returned. What is your strategy in those situations?

Also, I'm wondering how you fare against attacking players who use MP or SP on their backhands.
I really don't like to attack with my long pips except for short and high balls. If I attack, I prefer to twiddle to inverted and attack.. If I'm not quick enough to decide to twiddle, I play it safe and push the ball back.. I actually have a fairly good record against SP players.. Some of the matches against those players are in my youtube account.. There are several short pips players:
 
Won all matches against those below.. 
 
Xue Di (SP penholder) 2038 Rating
Thor Truelson (SP backhand) 2215 Rating
Puerto Rican Junior (SP backhand) approx. 2050 rating
Mark Napartovich (SP backhand) 2227 Rating
Santos Shih (SP penholder)  2188 rating
I also beat Carlos Estrada I (SP hitter) last year at a tournament) 2144
 
I did win against Thomas Yu (penhold player) but I'm not sure if he used SP or inverted)
The last time that I lost to someone with SP (or MP.. not sure)) was Rocky Wang (rated over 150 points higher than myself) at the Cary Cup. 8 ,9 ,-8 ,8
Wang, Rocky 2381 8 ,9 ,-8 ,8
 
I doubt that I've ever played against a MP player in a tournament, so I can't say how I do against them.. I do extremely well against most defensive LP styles. I do have problems against long pips attackers but there are extremely few.. I also have troubles against twiddlers and several modern defenders who can play fairly offensive from the long pips side..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/30/2010 at 1:59pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2010 at 2:12pm
Rocky Wang uses LP last I heard (something from TSP) though his aggressive style with his BH might lead one to believe otherwise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2010 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by nathanso nathanso wrote:

Rocky Wang uses LP last I heard (something from TSP) though his aggressive style with his BH might lead one to believe otherwise.
 
I wasn't sure.. I really found his backhand to be his weak side and I played just about everything into the pips (whatever they were). That was the only way to keep up with him.. I had my chance to win but  lost very close..
His pips were not deceptive and that's why I thought that they were short or medium.. It's probably TSP Curl P2 pips.. that's what Dickie Fleisher uses..
The problems that I had with Rocky wasn't his pips, it was his quickness and forehand.. He is very quick and was able to avoid his backhand many times..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/30/2010 at 2:34pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 10:44am
Although many people underestimate your game Oliver, I don't think you should be so confidant in saying you can easily bash the people that disregard your game.

I can honestly say that i understand LP VERY, VERY WELL considering for the last 3 years almost on a daily basis, i've played against 1900-2000 sometimes 22-2400+ (U.S) LP players although in my case, it wud be 25-2800 long pips players (since i live in canada and the rating system is different).

Long pips especially a style like yours IS EXTREMELY difficult to play the first couple times playing it (and i can see the korean was not taking you lightly because he was confused by how well your placement was and the spin, which he is definitely not used to).

HOWEVER, Once you understand the theory of long pips, and you play multiple times against is executing a strategy, (no offense) it gets rather easy to play.

a 2200 LP player and a 2200 inverted player IS VERY DIFFERENT.  I can honestly say out of experience, that while a 2200 LP player has the potential to upset much higher rated players because of their unique style, THEY CAN ALSO, lose to a much lower rated player that is an extremely experienced player against LP

I have seen these kind of upsets happen ALL THE TIME, where an 1800 player will upset a 2200 LP player because they have a very good strategy against LP AND is very experienced playing it.

A 2200 inverted player however, is much less likely to lose against much lower rated players AND much less likely to beat a much higher rated player.

I play in a house league at my club with players ranging from about 1900-2500 (U.S rating) players and on my team there are 3 long pips players that play with Tibhar Grass.

I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME.

Long pips should be valued and it is a great addition to our table tennis game because it's just another variation of playing.  People that struggle with it should learn how to deal with it rather than just saying it's stupid and inverted is the way to play.

And LP players SHOULD NOT think so confidently saying they can beat 90% of the ppl because of the fact that more and more people are learning how to play against long pips properly.

Just an example, a couple years back, me and two of the loewr rated LP players from my club went with me to Milcreek Open in PA.  

One of the LP Players, Philip Poon beat Dan Seemiller JR (executing A VERY GOOD game much like Oliver's).  a 1900 LP player beating a 2200 player that is well coached is a very good win.

However, scroll down and take a look at his losses (btw this is 2008 Milcreek Open) he loses to Richard chan, an 1800 player that i don't think even deserved 1800 at the time.  

Richard, despite his low rating, PLAYED AN EXCELLENT game against LP.  He served a deep no-spin ball and no matter how Philip hit that third ball back, Richard had a great understanding which led to an easy third ball attack.

despite philip's great placement with his chops and mind you, he kept most of them short, I could see Richard was too well experienced against the LP.  He knew exactly what the spin was so no matter how many variations it looked like Philip was doing, he cud return the ball well enough for him to think of a way to attack later on in the point.

That was 2008 ladies and gentlemen and today, its 2011.  I can see that even at my own club, almost everybody knows the basics of playing LP now and for philip, it is much harder for him to win games.

LP has been around for a long time, and with each year, more and more people are learning how to deal with it


Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/20/2011 at 10:49am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

HOWEVER, Once you understand the theory of long pips, and you play multiple times against is executing a strategy, (no offense) it gets rather easy to play.
So, if this is the case, why do I still beat the same people (and other that I haven't beaten before) that I'm playing once or twice a week at the club?? Some of them played me 100's of times and still lose to me.. (and I play mostly against 2000 - 2200 level players at the club)?? There are plenty of players that used to beat me all the time and now I'm beating them all the time.. A  chopper rated in the 2100's at my club that used to beat me 80% of the time now has lost 12 consecutive matches against me including one at a tournament and 11 at the club)
 
Quote
a 2200 LP player and a 2200 inverted player IS VERY DIFFERENT.  I can honestly say out of experience, that while a 2200 LP player has the potential to upset much higher rated players because of their unique style, THEY CAN ALSO, lose to a much lower rated player that is an extremely experienced player against LP
 
This is MANY times the case but please look at my rating history on usatt.org and you will see that it is extremely rare that I lose to anybody much lower than my rating.. I did lose on paper to a 1980 rated player at the Teams but he was UNRATED and he lost to a significantly underrated player and therefore got a lower initial rating but that really wasn't his level..  I have not lost to anybody below 1960 rating in a tournament in 10 years.
 
Quote
I have seen these kind of upsets happen ALL THE TIME, where an 1800 player will upset a 2200 LP player because they have a very good strategy against LP AND is very experienced playing it.
 
Yes, it happens but again, feel free to check my rating history and all my wins and losses and you will see that there are no bad losses..
 
Quote
A 2200 inverted player however, is much less likely to lose against much lower rated players AND much less likely to beat a much higher rated player.
 
Again, that's often the case but not always.. I don't want to mention his name but there is a very well known 2150  - 2250 level looper who always loses to long pips blockers even if they are much lower rated than him.. He gets back to his rating at the next tournament when he doesn't play a long pips blocker.. Just like there are long pips blockers who have a weakness for certain styles, there are inverted players who have problems against certain styles..
 
Quote
I play in a house league at my club with players ranging from about 1900-2500 (U.S rating) players and on my team there are 3 long pips players that play with Tibhar Grass.

I've seen them upset high rated players and lose to low rated players ALL THE TIME.
Again, I don't contest that this is the case with MANY long pips players, just not me.. I've been playing tournaments in this country  since 2000 and haven't been upset badly for the entire time.. Generally, you are right and this is the case but in my specific case, my results paint another picture.
 
Quote
Long pips should be valued and it is a great addition to our table tennis game because it's just another variation of playing.  People that struggle with it should learn how to deal with it rather than just saying it's stupid and inverted is the way to play.

And LP players SHOULD NOT think so confidently saying they can beat 90% of the ppl because of the fact that more and more people are learning how to play against long pips properly.
Again, how do you explain that I'm still beating the same people after a LONG time playing against them??
 
Quote
Just an example, a couple years back, me and two of the loewr rated LP players from my club went with me to Milcreek Open in PA.  

One of the LP Players, Philip Poon beat Dan Seemiller JR (executing A VERY GOOD game much like Oliver's).  a 1900 LP player beating a 2200 player that is well coached is a very good win.

However, scroll down and take a look at his losses (btw this is 2008 Milcreek Open) he loses to Richard chan, an 1800 player that i don't think even deserved 1800 at the time.  

Richard, despite his low rating, PLAYED AN EXCELLENT game against LP.  He served a deep no-spin ball and no matter how Philip hit that third ball back, Richard had a great understanding which led to an easy third ball attack.

despite philip's great placement with his chops and mind you, he kept most of them short, I could see Richard was too well experienced against the LP.  He knew exactly what the spin was so no matter how many variations it looked like Philip was doing, he cud return the ball well enough for him to think of a way to attack later on in the point.

That was 2008 ladies and gentlemen and today, its 2011.  I can see that even at my own club, almost everybody knows the basics of playing LP now and for philip, it is much harder for him to win games.

LP has been around for a long time, and with each year, more and more people are learning how to deal with it
Again, you are right and in MOST cases it is like that but like I said, I have been around the block a few times and play many times against really good players over and over again and there is nobody that is doing much better against me than when we first started playing each other.. OK, there is ONE single player who is now doing better against me but his rating has also come up nicely as he is improving.. Those whose rating stayed about the same still have the same results or worse against me than they used to.

BTW, the Florida State Closed (State Championship) was held at my club and  most of the players that I beat to win the State Championsihip were from my club! They all know me and play me on a weekly basis..


Edited by Pushblocker - 01/20/2011 at 12:50pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 1:05pm
This is quite pointless. Nothing like reading 2 Alpha-males cyber-jabbing each other. LOLLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 1:24pm
 

It's always easy to use strategy to beat someone who has no strategy, but if someone is actually using strategy and adapts theirs because they realize and are aware of what you are trying to do...it goes back and forth. Inverted with good strategy can beat a long pip player with no strategy just sticking his pips out there and not really aware of what he's doing or the other guy is doing, but a long pip player with multiple strategies who adapts or neutralizes the other persons' strategy and thus game, he's gonna have the upper hand.


Edited by Jonan - 01/20/2011 at 1:28pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

 

It's always easy to use strategy to beat someone who has no strategy, but if someone is actually using strategy and adapts theirs because they realize and are aware of what you are trying to do...it goes back and forth. Inverted with good strategy can beat a long pip player with no strategy just sticking his pips out there and not really aware of what he's doing or the other guy is doing, but a long pip player with multiple strategies who adapts or neutralizes the other persons' strategy and thus game, he's gonna have the upper hand.
IF the inverted player has the SKILLS to overcome a good strategy of the long pips blocker, then they will win.. Without those skills, even the best strategy won't help..  For example, the only style that gives me significant trouble are players who can consistently loop with good spin and medium speed from BOTH sides against deep , low and aggressive pushes.  Based on my experience, there are VERY FEW players below 2200 level that can do that consistently from BOTH sides. My style exploits weaknesses and if a opponent has a weaker side, I will be able to exploit that and no strategy will help... Again, I know very few that can do it.. Larry Bavly is one example of someone who can.. I have the highest respect for his game!!


Edited by Pushblocker - 01/20/2011 at 1:45pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 2:37pm
I don't believe pushblocking is a complex or difficult style at all. However it adds some dimension to the game and I think it would be fun to play a few.

But why only trouble against two-winged loopers? I imagine a defender with a strong attack could destroy any pushblocker. Quite simply because the LP's could be used to take any spin off, roll shots on the backhand and so forth.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by PanPong PanPong wrote:

I don't believe pushblocking is a complex or difficult style at all. However it adds some dimension to the game and I think it would be fun to play a few.

But why only trouble against two-winged loopers? I imagine a defender with a strong attack could destroy any pushblocker. Quite simply because the LP's could be used to take any spin off, roll shots on the backhand and so forth.

IF the attacking defender can attack with the pips or is good at twiddling and attacking from the backhand side, he will be dangerous for pushblockers. If he can't attack too well from the backhand side, I would put every ball wide to his backhand and exploit that weakness. I do have problems against players who can attack with long pips or anti but there are VERY few that can do that consistently.. Never ran into someone at a tournament that could..
 
A good pushblocker will find the weak spot of the opponent and exploit it.. If there is no weak spot, it doesn't look good for the pushblocker..


Edited by Pushblocker - 01/20/2011 at 2:59pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 3:17pm
If people that constantly play your style but still lose, it could result in two simple reasons.

a) ur improving ur game while they r'nt
b) their not doing their hw
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

If people that constantly play your style but still lose, it could result in two simple reasons.

a) ur improving ur game while they r'nt
b) their not doing their hw
 
Well, as a pushblocker you always have to find new ways to win. If I'd play the same strategy over and over again, I'd get killed..  It's like radar and a radar gun.. Opponents figure out how to play against 1 strategy and then it's up to me to find another strategy that works.. Finding ways to win is very important.. I did improve my game but it's mostly a improvement in my head rather than my strokes..  I do work a lot on strategies and playing patterns and I do work hard on my serve. 
 
I think that a key to being successful with my style is to be able to adapt to players who adapt to my game.. I have to be quick in realizing what they are trying to do and then come up with a counter-measure.. While in videos, it might all look the same, there are slight variatin that are hard to catch.. For example, I can throw off opponents by varying the speed and lengths of my blocks/pushes.. It looks fairly unimpressive on video as it only looks like suddenly, without reason, the opponent misses.. However, it's my goal to make the opponent mess and I'm looking for ways to do that. As you know, my style is very liminted to what I can do, so I only have limited amount of things that I can do but using the right shot at the right time helps..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

If people that constantly play your style but still lose, it could result in two simple reasons.

a) ur improving ur game while they r'nt
b) their not doing their hw

It's not that simple.  Do you eventually beat all the people that you play often?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2011 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

IF the inverted player has the SKILLS to overcome a good strategy of the long pips blocker, then they will win.. Without those skills, even the best strategy won't help..  

Well skill is a given, strategy you can't execute is just a pipedream.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:25am
I can agree to the fact that Oliver is an extremely hard worker, constantly improving his tactics and mental toughness.

However, I still stand by my opinion that if people who lose to long pips honestly go home, think about why they lose, try and understand the theory of long pips, and execute an effective game plan, LP is not hard to deal with.

And i did eventually beat those people that i play with.  I played against a roughly (putting back into u.s rating prolly 2300) indian player who had a VERY, VERY strong forehand plus a very good backhand LP and push much like Oliver's.  

Right from the get-go, i knew i cud beat this guy although he was much higher rated than me.  I studied his game before hand and i knew that despite he had great lp defense, he was most likely to use his LP for placement shots only and blast me with his FH.

the whole game was controlled by me because all i did was isolate his long pips.  I did not let him use his forehand whatsoever (of course he had some forehand shots) but i limited his opportunities to use fh as much as possible by explotiong his LP.

Like i said, LP is a weakness rather than a strength ONCE YOU understand how it works and you haev good experience + a good strategy against it.




Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/21/2011 at 2:26am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:46am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

I can agree to the fact that Oliver is an extremely hard worker, constantly improving his tactics and mental toughness.

However, I still stand by my opinion that if people who lose to long pips honestly go home, think about why they lose, try and understand the theory of long pips, and execute an effective game plan, LP is not hard to deal with.

And i did eventually beat those people that i play with.  I played against a roughly (putting back into u.s rating prolly 2300) indian player who had a VERY, VERY strong forehand plus a very good backhand LP and push much like Oliver's.  

Right from the get-go, i knew i cud beat this guy although he was much higher rated than me.  I studied his game before hand and i knew that despite he had great lp defense, he was most likely to use his LP for placement shots only and blast me with his FH.

the whole game was controlled by me because all i did was isolate his long pips.  I did not let him use his forehand whatsoever (of course he had some forehand shots) but i limited his opportunities to use fh as much as possible by explotiong his LP.

Like i said, LP is a weakness rather than a strength ONCE YOU understand how it works and you haev good experience + a good strategy against it.



Pics or it didn't happen. It's easy to come on and claim in your 2nd post to be a high level player, but for all we know your just an alter-account of some pips hater summed up to give credibility to his arguments with conjured up examples.

Also, LP isn't a weakness or a strength, there is no magic secret that all long pip players know that if found out by outsiders they are helpless and unable to adapt...you can use longpips in every way you can use inverted, the only question is if the person knows how, same with inverted. You don't beat them just because they have long pips, you beat them because of superior strategy executed by superior skill, otherwise they would just adapt at that level. There's a 2100 rated player at my club who uses OX long pips and he just loops with them away from the table twiddling them on either side, has outlooped 2400 rated double winged loopers before with his long pips. You can use long pips in a dizzying amount of ways, the only question is if you have the ability.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 2:57am
Jonan, with your post you clearly lack any knowledge of long pips at all LMFAO.

First of all, I didn't say i was a high lvl player but just a player that understood the theory of long pips well enough to win against long pips players.  please refer to my earlier posts about much lower rated players upsetting high rated LP players.

Second, Long pips being able to doing everything inverted can is the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life. 

So if i was to serve heavy underspin with my inverted rubber, could the number 1 LP player in the world do that?  IF SO, y don't I see Joo See Hyuk or chen weixing do that.  Im sure LP generating HEAVY BACKSPIN by itself would be a great advantage, no?

And LP IS CLEARLY  strength in some cases and a weakness in some cases.  Please ask Oliver yourself, A PERSON (NO MATTER WHAT RATING YOU ARE) will have DEFINITE trouble playing against a good LP player IF IT IS YOUR FIRST TIME ever playing against long pips.

And if you wanna make the argument of how long pips can not POSSIBLY be a weakness, please bring up stats to show it because i clearly have stats that show long pips can be a weakness.  

I can show you SO MANY MATCHES were 1900 long pips players lose to 1700 inverted players according to CTTA (Canadian Table Tennis Association) ratings AND same with USATT rating history.

Please read the rest of my posts before you post something stupid.

And if you';re about to tell me that a 2100 rated player at your club OUTLOOPED 2400 rated double winged loopers with his long pips than either those players ARE NOT 2400 or you're lying and it's not even long pips.

Before we even get into an argument, I;m just gonna ask u a very basic question.

Do you know whats the difference between long pips with sponge and long pips without sponge.

If you cannot even answer such a simple question then im not gonna bother argueing with you because based on your post, I think you talk like you know the first thing about LP when you are honestly completely clueless


Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 01/21/2011 at 3:02am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 3:03am
I sometimes beat people with LP!!!
Well I mostly beat them since like a year Geek
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 3:17am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Jonan, with your post you clearly lack any knowledge of long pips at all LMFAO.

First of all, I didn't say i was a high lvl player but just a player that understood the theory of long pips well enough to win against long pips players.  please refer to my earlier posts about much lower rated players upsetting high rated LP players.

Second, Long pips being able to doing everything inverted can is the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life. 

So if i was to serve heavy underspin with my inverted rubber, could the number 1 LP player in the world do that?  IF SO, y don't I see Joo See Hyuk or chen weixing do that.  Im sure LP generating HEAVY BACKSPIN by itself would be a great advantage, no?

And LP IS CLEARLY  strength in some cases and a weakness in some cases.  Please ask Oliver yourself, A PERSON (NO MATTER WHAT RATING YOU ARE) will have DEFINITE trouble playing against a good LP player IF IT IS YOUR FIRST TIME ever playing against long pips.

And if you wanna make the argument of how long pips can not POSSIBLY be a weakness, please bring up stats to show it because i clearly have stats that show long pips can be a weakness.  

I can show you SO MANY MATCHES were 1900 long pips players lose to 1700 inverted players according to CTTA (Canadian Table Tennis Association) ratings AND same with USATT rating history.

Please read the rest of my posts before you post something stupid.

And if you';re about to tell me that a 2100 rated player at your club OUTLOOPED 2400 rated double winged loopers with his long pips than either those players ARE NOT 2400 or you're lying and it's not even long pips.

Before we even get into an argument, I;m just gonna ask u a very basic question.

Do you know whats the difference between long pips with sponge and long pips without sponge.

If you cannot even answer such a simple question then im not gonna bother argueing with you because based on your post, I think you talk like you know the first thing about LP when you are honestly completely clueless

You understand LPs so well that you beat most LP players at or higher than your rating?  I find it highly unlikely...  

Prove it.  Talk is not just cheap.  It's free.  Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 4:51am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Jonan, with your post you clearly lack any knowledge of long pips at all LMFAO.

First of all, I didn't say i was a high lvl player but just a player that understood the theory of long pips well enough to win against long pips players.  please refer to my earlier posts about much lower rated players upsetting high rated LP players.

Second, Long pips being able to doing everything inverted can is the stupidest thing i've ever heard in my life. 


And if you';re about to tell me that a 2100 rated player at your club OUTLOOPED 2400 rated double winged loopers with his long pips than either those players ARE NOT 2400 or you're lying and it's not even long pips.

Before we even get into an argument, I;m just gonna ask u a very basic question.

Do you know whats the difference between long pips with sponge and long pips without sponge.

If you cannot even answer such a simple question then im not gonna bother argueing with you because based on your post, I think you talk like you know the first thing about LP when you are honestly completely clueless

Hey sh*tface, I've been playing with longpips for almost 2 years, I have several rackets with ox and with sponged long pips and I know the difference asshole.

I didn't say they could do it as well, I said they can do it, no rubber does everything as well as another rubber, even if they are both inverted, but you can still loop, hit, chop, block with a rubber no matter if its inverted, short or long pips, to different degrees.

And my example is Jimmy Kimple beating Joey Cochran in the 2008 Lindenwood open, Jimmy was 2021 before the tournament and Joey was 2395. Jimmy plays with a Donic Dotec Carbokev with Omega 3 FH and ox longpips backhand, twiddles, and stands about 5 feet from the table and loops with both from either side, he plays every week at my club. 

You'd have a problem when facing a super spiny inverted your first time too.

Anyone can show tons of examples of people beating other people who are rated higher than them no matter what equipment they use. 


Edited by Jonan - 01/21/2011 at 4:57am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 4:54am

Ur gonna teach your kid those words?

Calm down, like u said hes new to the forum, maybe its SiD?
Why so serious!?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 4:59am
Originally posted by Thomasson Thomasson wrote:

Ur gonna teach your kid those words?

Calm down, like u said hes new to the forum, maybe its SiD?
Why so serious!?

I had a severe allergic reaction to smartass and break out into rage whenever I come into contact with it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/21/2011 at 7:22am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

I can agree to the fact that Oliver is an extremely hard worker, constantly improving his tactics and mental toughness.

However, I still stand by my opinion that if people who lose to long pips honestly go home, think about why they lose, try and understand the theory of long pips, and execute an effective game plan, LP is not hard to deal with.

And i did eventually beat those people that i play with.  I played against a roughly (putting back into u.s rating prolly 2300) indian player who had a VERY, VERY strong forehand plus a very good backhand LP and push much like Oliver's.  

Right from the get-go, i knew i cud beat this guy although he was much higher rated than me.  I studied his game before hand and i knew that despite he had great lp defense, he was most likely to use his LP for placement shots only and blast me with his FH.

the whole game was controlled by me because all i did was isolate his long pips.  I did not let him use his forehand whatsoever (of course he had some forehand shots) but i limited his opportunities to use fh as much as possible by explotiong his LP.

Like i said, LP is a weakness rather than a strength ONCE YOU understand how it works and you haev good experience + a good strategy against it.


You are obviousely doing your homework.. It's a very good idea to study opponents games before playing them. I actually do the same.  Some people will just watch a player in real life and video and dismiss that persons game because it looks like they are not effective or good. However, how a game looks to the viewer can be very deceptive.. I think that one mistake that many make is to underestimate their opponents based on watching their game..  Those who do not dissmiss somebody's game but instead analyze it and try to find the weakness of a certain player will of course do much better. Luckily for me, most players don't do their homework..  However, like I said..I rarely lose to anybody much lower rated than myself.. I doubt that even the best prepared 2000 players will have a easy time against me.. Sure, if I play a 2000 player who has studied my game and prepared for me and one that hasn't, the one that has done his homework might win..
However,  I'm still waiting for the 2000 player that can beat me consistently..

Edited by Pushblocker - 01/21/2011 at 10:46am
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