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Topic ClosedPushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:53am

You feed off peoples mistakes,your game thrives from the confused state you put them in. I have watched your opponents faces go from "one full of confidence " to one of "uncertainty "  your game does that.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:55am
I totaly agree with your analysis. Why people felt that Korean cocky, only because he is higher level player?? He just tried very hard to adjust his attack to deal with a very unconventional push attack. Instead of showing frustration on his face, he kept cool and trying to smile as much as he can when he could not return pushblock's fast push especially heavy one with some kind of backspin. People don't realize that his push over the opponont's topspin more or like backspin attack that is not equivalent to simple backspin push.
 
I personally enjoy to watch this game more than watching some other high level professional players' game, very entertaining and fun to watch.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:56am
Pushblocker,

People often give you suggestions on how to improve your game (add this or that). I want to turn the question around. What parts of your game (if any) do you ever think "well if that player just did this or that that I do they would be better?"

I am thinking of players who may use LP to chop with or SP, but maybe you have some suggestions for inverted players??

thanx in advance
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:00am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

bear with me for a minute while I speculate about strategy that is way out of my depth.

i know that you (oliver) have entertained the possibility of developing an attacking forehand - and I was also intrigued when someone mentioned the possibility of a twiddling BH attack (especially considering your BH oriented stance).

it was also mentioned in this thread that you perform best against players who try to use power.

So the question becomes, can you develop a selective attacking style that
a) allows you to put away weak balls outright for winners
and
b) allows you to "encourage" counterattacking that you can then pushblock

In the first scenario, opponent mistakes would be punished and you would create more tension in your opponent. This alone would be disruptive to the psychology of playing a controlled slower/less spinny game against you.

In the second (if it is in fact possible) you would help generate the faster pace on which you can more easily capitalize.

In both cases, you could selectively create disruptions in opponent rhythm.

And in some ways, your practice environment would be ideal for this (2-3 hours of matches against weaker players) as you could run up the scores (2-0 in games) and then selectively play the third game trying to integrate one of those two types of attacks.

But again, forgive me, I know I am talking out of my depth here, but I am genuinely convinced that having a weapon to finish weak points and another weapon to create points that favor your game would benefit you.
My problem is that I really don't have too much time for table tennis at all. Twice a week ain't enough. Against weak players, I can already attack pretty good as they are giving me a lot more attackable balls than stronger players. Being able to attack against lower rated players doesn't mean anything.. Good players will give me very few openings to attack. Of course, I do have to take those openings and kill them to keep the opponent real. If they know that they can play it very safe, I'm screwed.. If you watch my match against Bryan Michaud, I had a few attacks which caused him to take slightly more risk on his shots.. Against attackers, all I need is to keep them real.. It's mostly against slower styles and other pips players that I have to attack frequently..  I'm consistently working on my game but at tournaments, I usually play more conservative than in training..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:05am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Pushblocker,

People often give you suggestions on how to improve your game (add this or that). I want to turn the question around. What parts of your game (if any) do you ever think "well if that player just did this or that that I do they would be better?"

I am thinking of players who may use LP to chop with or SP, but maybe you have some suggestions for inverted players??

thanx in advance
 
The key for a attacker to play against me is to slow down the game, place the ball well and DEEP (I love short balls as I can use the angles) and wait for the right ball to attack. To pick your hits is the key.. It's recommended that WNEH you go for the kill, hit it hard enough and place it well enough so that it doesn't come back.. However, you have to wait for that opening. If you try to attack the wrong ball or if you attack to weak, I will have an advantage.. My game is to get my opponents to push to me so that I can push aggressively against their push. I don't like slow topspin. Do a search for the match of heavyspin (Larry Bavly) against me.. He does all the right thing.. He topspins with medium pace against me until he gets an opening for the kill.  With other words.. Don't take risks and wait for your chance.. Of course, a understanding of long pips is required too..
Another thing.. Serve long, fast and without spin deep into the backhand of the long pips blocker.. That might create a opening for a 3rd ball attack..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/03/2010 at 9:06am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:23am

[/QUOTE]
 
The key for a attacker to play against me is to slow down the game, place the ball well and DEEP (I love short balls as I can use the angles) and wait for the right ball to attack. To pick your hits is the key.. It's recommended that WNEH you go for the kill, hit it hard enough and place it well enough so that it doesn't come back.. However, you have to wait for that opening. If you try to attack the wrong ball or if you attack to weak, I will have an advantage.. My game is to get my opponents to push to me so that I can push aggressively against their push. I don't like slow topspin. Do a search for the match of heavyspin (Larry Bavly) against me.. He does all the right thing.. He topspins with medium pace against me until he gets an opening for the kill.  With other words.. Don't take risks and wait for your chance.. Of course, a understanding of long pips is required too..
Another thing.. Serve long, fast and without spin deep into the backhand of the long pips blocker.. That might create a opening for a 3rd ball attack..
[/QUOTE]

I am actually not asking how to play you, but what techniques I (or others) can use to incorporate them in our games against more standard style players. Without becoming full time pushblockers....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 9:30am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:


I am actually not asking how to play you, but what techniques I (or others) can use to incorporate them in our games against more standard style players. Without becoming full time pushblockers....
I think that pace change and being "unpredictable" helps a lot. Practice the down the line shots frequently as those are great to throw off your opponent. Block the ball early off the bounce (even with inverted) as the ball will come faster to the opponent than a block at the table. You also don't need to adjust your racket angle when blocking off the bounce against topspin.. Just try it and you'll be surprised..  Penholders often live off that type of block.. They block off the bounce with 90 degree racket angle.. Works with just about all types of rubber. Disrupting the opponents timing is key to making them miss.  Thal Leibovitz is a great example of changing pace and throwing off opponents.. His game looks fairly  common but if you pay close attention, there is some great pace change  and great placement.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 1:07pm
Nice video Pushblocker. Good quality.

Its not boring for me because I can relate to the looper's experience in that match. There are versions of your game at every level. Where I'm at there's a handful of anti-spin bh blockers who use a similar technique of pushing/blocking from side to side with control, forcing the "loopers" to run back and forth between fh and bh. Footwork is almost the most important aspect of playing against that style. (If not the most important aspect against any style.)

I don't think the Korean guy is cocky. He's a good player who wanted to win without looking like he's trying too hard. You almost got him to look like he was trying... He was smiling and laughing to himself nervously, but he had just enough poise to finish you off before the panic set in.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 3:31pm
I generally like playing LP/Anti players because like what Pushblocker mentioned, I always look to control the match with slow topspin to their defense side. If anyone has seen He Zhi Wen play a chopper you know it is the same exact thing. Just slow, as safe as possible loops or rolls to their defense over and over and over and over until I get the right ball to kill (and/or maybe find a good time to change the angle completely the other way). Obviously I still wouldn't beat Pushblocker because the rating difference is just too much, but I think adapting this strategy against that style opponent easily is like giving me a 100 point handicap or much more. It only becomes difficult when they can twiddle, consistently step far around to FH attack, or have very fast aggressive blocks. When it comes back slow and you have all the time in the world to just safe loop and repeat it is pretty comfortable.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.


I actually think dtecs are about $40? but truer words were never uttered ^^
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.

Would you prefer it being a video of a $30 sheet of rubber killing you and your $300+ butterfly racket with him not even trying hard?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.

Would you prefer it being a video of a $30 sheet of rubber killing you and your $300+ butterfly racket with him not even trying hard?


let's keep it civil please. this is getting close to fuel / fire mix.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2010 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.

Would you prefer it being a video of a $30 sheet of rubber killing you and your $300+ butterfly racket with him not even trying hard?


You're implying that a sheet of rubber is a person and that it can actually try. I think your logic is slightly flawed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

let's keep it civil please. this is getting close to fuel / fire mix.
The long pips haters will never give up hating.. I'm used to that. They can keep hating and I keep going up in the rating and keep winning State Championship and such Wink
It's usually the players that play a brainless style who can't adapt to different material who are the biggest haters..

Edited by Pushblocker - 12/05/2010 at 6:24pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Fruit loop Fruit loop wrote:

You're implying that a sheet of rubber is a person and that it can actually try. I think your logic is slightly flawed.
So, a rubber wins you a match.. Ok then.. I'd like to see you play with a combination bat against a 2200+ player and lets see how you would do.. It's soooo easy to play with long pips, especially at 2200+ level, right LOL
Anybody would get to 2200+ with a long pips rubber without any talent or skill, right?

Edited by Pushblocker - 12/05/2010 at 6:28pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 7:09pm

disregard..



Edited by Pushblocker - 12/05/2010 at 7:11pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.

Would you prefer it being a video of a $30 sheet of rubber killing you and your $300+ butterfly racket with him not even trying hard?
 
Lol, and now we're making assumptions about my level?  Our club is littered with high level 2000+ long pip blockers and choppers.  I can earnestly say their style doesn't bother me at all having learned to play against them from the point I picked up a paddle and began playing.
 
p.s. - My racket costs no where near $300+, nice try at an anti-Butterfly jab though...lol
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.

Would you prefer it being a video of a $30 sheet of rubber killing you and your $300+ butterfly racket with him not even trying hard?
 
Lol, and now we're making assumptions about my level?  Our club is littered with high level 2000+ long pip blockers and choppers.  I can earnestly say their style doesn't bother me at all having learned to play against them from the point I picked up a paddle and began playing.
 
p.s. - My racket costs no where near $300+, nice try at an anti-Butterfly jab though...lol
So, what's your rating??  Where are you located?? I'd like to play you and videotape it and post it here for everyone to see.. You shouldn't have a problem with me if you are so good against long pips.. I play tournaments all over the US.. I'm sure that I'll be near you whereever you are!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 8:18pm
I would like to see this one... trash talk leading to a videotaped match!! The tension is building and anticipation of "you can the talk the talk but can you walk the walk?"   

Edited by ttkenny - 12/05/2010 at 8:19pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by ttkenny ttkenny wrote:

I would like to see this one... trash talk leading to a videotaped match!! The tension is building and anticipation of "you can the talk the talk but can you walk the walk?"   
Most of those internet heroes will never reveal their true identity.. Everyone is 2900 rated behind the keyboard..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:


p.s. - My racket costs no where near $300+, nice try at an anti-Butterfly jab though...lol

Well your blade costs $125, slap a couple of those $75 tenergies on there and add shipping, BAM $300 setup.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 9:02pm
  Having played many styles in my time i think there is a s misconception that playing LP or Anti is mindless or easy.  I think  a lot of younger players get upset with LP/Anti since it is usually older players that use it and in any other sport youth dominates (faster/stronger).  I may not be able to run around like the younger players but i have more knowledge of the game plus i can read ball spin.  It takes skill to play LP/Anti  you actually need to think about what you are doing.Is it more skillful to FH and BH loop everything as compared to pushing/chopping/blocking?  I think not.  I know it is not the style that everyone wants to see(including ITTF)   but a 2200 rated DEF is just as good as a 2200 rated looper.  Just remember if you really love TT and plan on playing it all your life you will most likely switch to DEF/ALL sooner or laterWink   Nice video Pushblocker
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 10:22pm
I can sort of understand this disdain for LP and anti-spin playing styles, as I've lost many matches trying to play against them - it's quite a frustrating experience. Still, the players that use them still have to know how to use them. I can't deny the skill needed to make the styles work. They're not the prettiest styles to watch, but they are nonetheless VERY effective - any opponent that is not ON their game will probably lose. Maybe some here would disagree, but I think a win is still a win.

I used to have little respect for the Seemiller grip players (twiddling using anti) until I saw some great matches by Danny Seemiller and Eric Boggan. They played the style with a lot of finesse at a very high level and won a lot. What they did definitely could not be achieved by just mindlessly standing around and blocking.

I agree that the best way to settle things is at the table. I would also love to see a videotaped match between Pushblocker and Carbon TT. Talk is cheap. Let's see the games.


Edited by Bennybenny - 12/05/2010 at 10:24pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 10:36pm
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[Deng Xiaoping]
 
Won't TT be horrible & boring if everyone just play the same style?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 11:00pm
Just let us know when the match will be so maybe some of us that are local to the area can come and personally watch!  Maybe we might be in the area during that time for vacation we can stop by?  A recorded match is still the best so we can see the action over and over again as a reminder of "2900 internet TT level" posters caught red handed!

Haven't seen any responses from CarbonTT either...hmmm.. Wink


Edited by ttkenny - 12/05/2010 at 11:01pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2010 at 11:12pm
Wow, the haters will just it hate even if they lost to the same type of player like them. Too bad frictionless LP is out of the window, THANKS TO YOU ALL WHINING LOSERS but they're still around in garage and unsanctioned local tournament. 

If I feel like wanting to lose 11-0, no matter how hard I try because they're just damn weird, I will seek one of these monster in a closet. They're annoying type but I think I can make my world bigger with them around. 

So to all freaking LP/SP haters, BACK OFF, just sit there and bite the bench. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2010 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by LobbedYoud0wn LobbedYoud0wn wrote:

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
 
Nah, now that I think about it I enjoyed watching a $30 sheet of rubber get killed by a player who wasn't even trying...thanks for the suggestion though lol.

Would you prefer it being a video of a $30 sheet of rubber killing you and your $300+ butterfly racket with him not even trying hard?
 
Lol, and now we're making assumptions about my level?  Our club is littered with high level 2000+ long pip blockers and choppers.  I can earnestly say their style doesn't bother me at all having learned to play against them from the point I picked up a paddle and began playing.
 
p.s. - My racket costs no where near $300+, nice try at an anti-Butterfly jab though...lol
So, what's your rating??  Where are you located?? I'd like to play you and videotape it and post it here for everyone to see.. You shouldn't have a problem with me if you are so good against long pips.. I play tournaments all over the US.. I'm sure that I'll be near you whereever you are!!
 
haha and you will never hear a response from  him again!
 
I think the korean in this video was not being cocky. He was having fun with the match, and got a kick out of Olivers' team's playful enthusiasm and encouragement. I think there was even a point in the video when oliver missed a serve or something, and the korean gave a little fist pump cho and a smile aimed at the team. He was just enjoying himself and the atmosphere- which helps against that style of play.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2010 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by stereotip stereotip wrote:

  No offense, but you make points only becouse your backhand rubber is deceptive.. No skills in your game.  
 
Deceptive?? Long pips are just as predictable as regular rubbers. However, they react DIFFERENT than inverted. NO rubber is unpredictable. If you play the same stroke against the same spin, the result will ALWAYS be the same.. That goes for all rubbers..


Don't get mad.  He's right.  Without long pips, you wouldn't be anything.  Let's see you put on some normal inverted rubber and see what your rating is after a year of playing tournaments like that.

Oh, you're not willing to do that?  Then admit it - you're only "good" because you have a deceptive rubber.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2010 at 2:56am

It's not that he's good BECAUSE of the rubber, he's good because he started playing with that rubber and has revolved his game around using that rubber. In other words- he knows how to use it and is good at using it. the same as the other guy is good at using his inverted rubber. You're right, he wouldn't be near as good with normal inverted on his BH because you can't pushblock everything with that stuff. If he wanted to use inverted rubber we wouldn't be calling him pushblocker. I'm at my level because I have played with certain style of equipment and have stayed with it. As a result- I've developed a looping style of play because of my inverted rubber. If I decide to go put some DTecs on my racket, I will instantly drop in level. Does this mean that I'm only "good" because I have inverted rubber?

Nostalgic Offensive
EL-S
Vega Japan
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