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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

about what rallies are you talking about? They serve return isn't great, but their third ball attack shots are awesome, so to expect a rally after that would be a mistake. They should be around 2100 or a little bit up imho.

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 12:37am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

about what rallies are you talking about? They serve return isn't great, but their third ball attack shots are awesome, so to expect a rally after that would be a mistake. They should be around 2100 or a little bit up imho.

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.

chiquita returns aren't really a "super advanced" technique and are commonly seen in the 2000-2100 range. i did not see the amazing counterloops you speak of at least nothing that would shock me at that level. 

as someone else said, choice of shots and quality dont always tell the whole story for level
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 12:58am
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

about what rallies are you talking about? They serve return isn't great, but their third ball attack shots are awesome, so to expect a rally after that would be a mistake. They should be around 2100 or a little bit up imho.

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.

chiquita returns aren't really a "super advanced" technique and are commonly seen in the 2000-2100 range. i did not see the amazing counterloops you speak of at least nothing that would shock me at that level. 

as someone else said, choice of shots and quality dont always tell the whole story for level

See point at 1:56 which was a full blown counterlooping rally, I would love to see any 2000 level player attempt this at this kind of quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 1:32am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

about what rallies are you talking about? They serve return isn't great, but their third ball attack shots are awesome, so to expect a rally after that would be a mistake. They should be around 2100 or a little bit up imho.

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.

chiquita returns aren't really a "super advanced" technique and are commonly seen in the 2000-2100 range. i did not see the amazing counterloops you speak of at least nothing that would shock me at that level. 

as someone else said, choice of shots and quality dont always tell the whole story for level

See point at 1:56 which was a full blown counterlooping rally, I would love to see any 2000 level player attempt this at this kind of quality.

majority of 2000-2200 level adult players would be able to have a counter looping rally like that one time in a match, but it seems you are still missing the point. shot quality and 1 counter looping rallying in an entire match tell little of the story




Edited by idk - 12/06/2020 at 1:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 4:45am
That "full blown counterlooping rally" starts with a block and a fish. It looks more like an exhibition style rally to me nothing impressive at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 5:27am
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

about what rallies are you talking about? They serve return isn't great, but their third ball attack shots are awesome, so to expect a rally after that would be a mistake. They should be around 2100 or a little bit up imho.

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.

chiquita returns aren't really a "super advanced" technique and are commonly seen in the 2000-2100 range. i did not see the amazing counterloops you speak of at least nothing that would shock me at that level. 

as someone else said, choice of shots and quality dont always tell the whole story for level

See point at 1:56 which was a full blown counterlooping rally, I would love to see any 2000 level player attempt this at this kind of quality.

majority of 2000-2200 level adult players would be able to have a counter looping rally like that one time in a match, but it seems you are still missing the point. shot quality and 1 counter looping rallying in an entire match tell little of the story



If they can do that, there's nothing a 2000-2100 level player would be able to really hurt them. Shot quality is in fact one of the primary determining factors of playing level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 5:58am
It is really hard to tell how good someone is from watching a match.  Until you feel what kind of spin they produce on their serve or the force behind their loop guessing the rating won't be an easy task.  If you go to youtube you can find all kinds of matches between professionals where one player for whatever reason destroys the other player.  Watching that game may make the loser look like they are rated low but in fact they are quite good.  I have seen a few 2700 players lose games 11-1 or 11-0.  They looked bad simply because they were playing someone who was 2800+. 

If you didn't know who these people were, how good would they look?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRs4eJqZiX8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 6:25am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

It is really hard to tell how good someone is from watching a match.  Until you feel what kind of spin they produce on their serve or the force behind their loop guessing the rating won't be an easy task.  If you go to youtube you can find all kinds of matches between professionals where one player for whatever reason destroys the other player.  Watching that game may make the loser look like they are rated low but in fact they are quite good.  I have seen a few 2700 players lose games 11-1 or 11-0.  They looked bad simply because they were playing someone who was 2800+. 

If you didn't know who these people were, how good would they look?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRs4eJqZiX8

+1 exactly, which is why I like to look at shot quality. Those so called "consistent blockers" will find themselves in huge trouble when faced with loops of these quality (look at the bounce after the opening loop, you can tell that there's shitloads of spin on them)... They look like they're receiving poorly and blocking poorly but a lot of it is due to the quality from their opponent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 7:41am
If these players play at a simillar level shouldn't they be able to deal with each others shots ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 7:49am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

If these players play at a simillar level shouldn't they be able to deal with each others shots ?

Not necessarily. The higher level you are, the more the offensive player  has an advantage. Like what I mentioned earlier, even Ma Long vs Xu Xin can be an ugly 3rd ball festival, same like other matchups like Ryu Seung Min vs Ma Lin with almost no rallies and tons of "unforced" errors....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 7:52am
yeah, need to play with them to make a guess.
Or at least with somebody)))
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 7:59am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

If these players play at a simillar level shouldn't they be able to deal with each others shots ?

Not necessarily. The higher level you are, the more the offensive player  has an advantage. Like what I mentioned earlier, even Ma Long vs Xu Xin can be an ugly 3rd ball festival, same like other matchups like Ryu Seung Min vs Ma Lin with almost no rallies and tons of "unforced" errors....

this is true but imho your definition of shot quality to define playing level is wrong. to define level Shot quality has more to do with the consistency that you can score with a certain type of shot, it's not about having an amazing forehand with great technic that scores you 2 out of 11 points. 


Edited by Skyline - 12/06/2020 at 8:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 8:15am
here's another video.
people talk about the consistency of 2200... these guys are probably 2250 by now and none of the points go beyond 3 or 4 shots, with more than 50% of the points reaching just 2 or 3 shots total.




Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 8:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 8:19am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

If these players play at a simillar level shouldn't they be able to deal with each others shots ?

Not necessarily. The higher level you are, the more the offensive player  has an advantage. Like what I mentioned earlier, even Ma Long vs Xu Xin can be an ugly 3rd ball festival, same like other matchups like Ryu Seung Min vs Ma Lin with almost no rallies and tons of "unforced" errors....

this is true but imho your definition of shot quality to define playing level is wrong. to define level Shot quality has more to do with the consistency that you can score with a certain type of shot, it's not about having an amazing forehand with great technic that scores you 2 out of 11 points. 

They rarely miss their FH loop...and that is also because of the immense amount of spin they put on the ball. Anyone can hit hard, but to spin a ball so intensely is a skill not many posses, and is usually a good indicator of playing level. Usually, more topspin = more consistency. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 10:29am
All such threads should mention how much time the players have played each other before. You look better against someone you know very well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 10:54am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

about what rallies are you talking about? They serve return isn't great, but their third ball attack shots are awesome, so to expect a rally after that would be a mistake. They should be around 2100 or a little bit up imho.

The serve/receive level is super high from both imo. The penholder guy did a side-under chiquita and knows how to vary both of them, which is a super advanced technique. Also there were quite a few rallies there, and amazing counterloops. There was even a long fishing + counterloop rally too. I think your 2100 players will absolutely get smoked by these guys.

chiquita returns aren't really a "super advanced" technique and are commonly seen in the 2000-2100 range. i did not see the amazing counterloops you speak of at least nothing that would shock me at that level. 

as someone else said, choice of shots and quality dont always tell the whole story for level

See point at 1:56 which was a full blown counterlooping rally, I would love to see any 2000 level player attempt this at this kind of quality.

majority of 2000-2200 level adult players would be able to have a counter looping rally like that one time in a match, but it seems you are still missing the point. shot quality and 1 counter looping rallying in an entire match tell little of the story



If they can do that, there's nothing a 2000-2100 level player would be able to really hurt them. Shot quality is in fact one of the primary determining factors of playing level. 

again you seem more impressed by their shot quality than you should be. it is pretty good but nothing that would be a surprise at the 2400+ level you estimate, and shot quality must always be considered equally with consistency and other factors of which theirs is terrible. in another post you equate consistency with blocking which is confusing. 


as said,  "full blown counterlooping rally" is not a good description of that point at 1:56 and most people in the 2000-2200 range could easily do that. it was not impressive at all. 

these guys are prime examples of all or nothing players who are limited by their obsession with trying to crush the ball, or as another user said "trying to look like the CNT without the footwork or fundamentals". very common in the 1900-2200 range. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 10:55am
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

here's another video.
people talk about the consistency of 2200... these guys are probably 2250 by now and none of the points go beyond 3 or 4 shots, with more than 50% of the points reaching just 2 or 3 shots total.



these guys are 2150-2200 which is in the range of most estimates posted here.


Edited by idk - 12/06/2020 at 3:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:00am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Yeah I saw that message too. To me that meant a 1900 Chinese rating seems is a lot stronger than a 1900 US rating haha.

But yeah, it's impossible to say for sure in these threads so it's all just for fun! But having that information is good because maybe there are other people with a Chinese and US rating that we can use to compare with.

Anyone have any experience between the two?

lgxb, or anybody else know how a 1900 chinese rating converts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:23am
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

here's another video.
people talk about the consistency of 2200... these guys are probably 2250 by now and none of the points go beyond 3 or 4 shots, with more than 50% of the points reaching just 2 or 3 shots total.



I actually counted the points.
here are the results:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
serve return error: 21 times
unfortunately at 2200 this is the most likely thing to happen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
serve return achieved - next ball missed: 16 times
third most likely thing to happen
this would look like... serve-push-loop missed
                  or... server-loop-block missed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 18
second most likely thing to happen
in general this would look like.... serve-push-loop-block missed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 11 times
these are not very common
in general this would look like.... serve-push-push-loop-block missed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 3 times
these are very rare.
could look like serve-push-push-loop-block-loop missed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
serve return achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball achieved - next ball missed: 1 time
this actually happened because there was a net in the point
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really


Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 11:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:26am
if we had the full match video of the original post, the counts would probably look the same
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:31am
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

if we had the full match video of the original post, the counts would probably look the same

this pattern stays the same at least until 2400
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:38am
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

if we had the full match video of the original post, the counts would probably look the same

this pattern stays the same at least until 2400

not entirely true. do you play in the USA?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:52am
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

if we had the full match video of the original post, the counts would probably look the same

actually the pattern is not that similar.

serve return error for the chinese: 0 (21 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball missed: 3 times (16 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 13 (18 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 9 (11 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 7 (3 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 3 (1 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 1 (none for US)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct -next ball missed: 1 (none for US)
-------------------------------------------------------
if both matches lasted 70 points (real duration of the US match) it would look like this:

serve return error for the chinese: 0 (21 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball missed: 6 times (16 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 26 (18 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 18 (11 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 14 (3 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 6 (1 for US2200)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball missed: 2 (none for US)

serve return correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct - next ball correct -next ball missed: 2 (none for US)


Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 


Edited by Tt Gold - 12/06/2020 at 12:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

the difference is the first two balls after serve.
serve receive and an eventual 3rd ball attack.

in 2200 50% of the points end before this 3rd ball attack is done successfully.

in pros and also the chinese video most of the points reach this area of 3rd ball successful attack.

from there yes, it will never go much further (in average).... even at world class level.


Edited by astaroyd - 12/06/2020 at 1:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

the difference is the first two balls after serve.
serve receive and an eventual 3rd ball attack.

in 2200 50% of the points end before this 3rd ball attack is done successfully.

in pros and also the chinese video most of the points reach this area of 3rd ball successful attack.

from there yes, it will never go much further (in average).... even at world class level.

do you play tournaments in the US, at these levels? seems like the international crowd gets a very wrong idea of certain levels of play when all they see is various highlight videos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

Precisely, and this is why shot quality (serve, receive, loop) is so important in terms of measuring playing level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

the difference is the first two balls after serve.
serve receive and an eventual 3rd ball attack.

in 2200 50% of the points end before this 3rd ball attack is done successfully.

in pros and also the chinese video most of the points reach this area of 3rd ball successful attack.

from there yes, it will never go much further (in average).... even at world class level.

do you play tournaments in the US, at these levels? seems like the international crowd gets a very wrong idea of certain levels of play when all they see is various highlight videos.

I just analyse the videos.... the hard cold data.
I avoid my memories, my imagination, my wonderings because it gets pretty subjective.
if you have other videos I can analyze please share them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

Precisely, and this is why shot quality (serve, receive, loop) is so important in terms of measuring playing level. 

how would you compare the serve and receive in the OPs video to that in the match between the two 2400 juniors posted earlier on this thread? 




Edited by idk - 12/06/2020 at 3:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lgxb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Yeah I saw that message too. To me that meant a 1900 Chinese rating seems is a lot stronger than a 1900 US rating haha.

But yeah, it's impossible to say for sure in these threads so it's all just for fun! But having that information is good because maybe there are other people with a Chinese and US rating that we can use to compare with.

Anyone have any experience between the two?

lgxb, or anybody else know how a 1900 chinese rating converts?

Sorry, unfortunately I don't.
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