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Some games between me and Robin

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    Posted: 07/22/2011 at 4:12pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG7gnwQxxUQ

 You can do the USATT rating thing if you like, But I'm told I'm about 2350 to 2450, Robin a bit less, I'm the blonde guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 4:40pm
Backhand chop. I've been doing it often as well, do you think its better to BH chop or fish it back when in a defensive position on backhand. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:04pm

You both hold the racket in a kinda strange way. The blue shirt guy holds it weird and backhand comfortable while you more properly and forehand comfortable (Timo Boll like). I can't rate you but the video was worth watching (i don't usually watch others than top near-top players). As for the fishing or chopping i think it depends more on the opponent unless you have an extraordinary ability that will confuse most players, btw Andy, nice chopping. I feel safer fishing or counter attacking.

An advice to the blue shirt guy, when he is chopping you better topspin or at least do a decent backspin return don't try to stop the ball near the net.

Hilarious play at 4:50, love these points!

Nice play both.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Backhand chop. I've been doing it often as well, do you think its better to BH chop or fish it back when in a defensive position on backhand. 
 I only chopped/ fished in games where I was so far infront. We played 24 games, Honey won the first two, then I won the next 22.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:32pm
both of u r great players but not 2350 for sure.  maybe 1900-2000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:45pm
zomg they're definitely not sub 2000!!! are you guys mad?! def 2200+! if they can sustain rallies like that consistently with that much pace and spin, then they blow most average people out of the water.

serve deception is crazy enough. but then they follow it up with consistent attacks, no silly pushes that go on forever.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

both of u r great players but not 2350 for sure.  maybe 1900-2000


I would agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:00pm
Ha, I played a USATT 2200 rated player over a whole wkend last year and he won one game out of about 40...Also in Uk I was ranked one place above Ben Johnson last time he was in UK, 


Playing him In the English premier division, USATT 2000 is an insult Guys!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote melarimsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:02pm
Good video. Thanks for posting. In my opinion you guys are at least 2100+ ...  Few service and service returns shots where wrong, but otherwise it is all good. One of my videos people make fun of me or my partners as I have also few service or service return problems, and I am way below you guys (1300+ in WEST or 1600+ in the EAST American Rating) Cheers !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by melarimsa melarimsa wrote:

Good video. Thanks for posting. In my opinion you guys are at least 2100+ ...  
How can you say, ''you guys'' the score was 22-2 in games, surely that makes a distinction?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote melarimsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:15pm
Well Andy, I made my opinion on this game that I watched. I may be wrong, and I am sure I am wrong for rating, but your opponent had some good shots also, and gave you some nice returns ... You are definitely better than him for at least 200 points, as I can see you have better control of the ball, than him. I hope this will clear "you guys" Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 6:42pm
you may be 2300 ...but definitely this game doesn't show it. 

it is completely inappropriate to judge someone by watching his game video.. because we miss out a lot of things. on this video i, personally see technical errors in holding the racket, arm movement etc.. and feels like 1800-1900. but then another 1800-1900 guy may look like 2200, because in spite of being technically strong he may have a major weakness. 

you guys may be good players and this video may not do justice to your actual level, ... but I wouldn't call your styles 'mainstream'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 8:23pm

Cool Video, Honey has come on quite a bit hasn't he!. havent seem him play for quite a while. His service is starting to look pretty good. needs to keep it a tiny bit shorter/tighter if he can. Some really good rallies as well.

I want your backhand loop! .... really natural shot.
 
Rating wise erm Rob 2000-2100 I guess.... he's defo on the up playing wise.
 
As for APW46 erm borderline 800 maybe on a good day! WinkWink  .....
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 8:35pm
Andy, you know you are going to catch more flack than this vid than the you vs Rob debate, yet you went ahead and posted it, even with the knowledge that 3/4 of this forum does not know you are near 2400 USATT level and wouldn't know if it fell out the sky and clocked them upside their forehead. What is remarkable is that you said Honey was significantly behind you a few years ago. You kinda inferred he was WAY behind. Honey appears to have very quickly tidied up things from your prior comments on other TT forums and developed some offense that can trouble you on a lot of points. He looks like another two years from putting you on the wrong end of the scoreline sometimes. You did not get as much profit from your short serve game. He had a high percentage of sucsessful flicking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 8:39pm
Unless Honey totally sucks rocks vs other styles, like long pips defenders or blockers, there is NO WAY Honey is only 2000 USATT. There are boatloads of 2000 level players who cannot flick to save their life nor can counterloop or stay in the point like Honey does consistantly. Agree with the rating assigned to Andy though... hehe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 10:25pm
2100-2300.
 
Sound strokes, consistency, good power on APW46's FH. Very good feel for the ball, especially APW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeIgado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 10:40pm
I feel like the guy in the blue shirt is around 2100 because although he had a solid backhand and some strong shots, I feel like he had poor shot selection. There were many times when he had time to step around to fh and generate more power but decided to stay with his back hand. Also, he rarely looped hard to you back hand. The points that he did, he won. He generally gave you a slow spinny loop to your BH or a fast loop to your FH which you crushed back because it seemed predictable.

Now on to you, I would say b/w 2300 and 2400. My reasoning behind this is that your BH is consistent and powerful. Your FH is deceptive on location and powerful in counterlooping/ counterhitting. On one hand I want to say 2300 because it seems like you have a strong bh to compensate for your lack of movement. However, at the 2400 lvl having good movement is absolutely necessary, regardless of shot strength imo. I want to say 2400 because although you don't move all that much, you predict shots and react to them very very well, I am not sure if that is because you play with the other guy alot, or if your instincts are that good. I could be way off, this is just my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 10:51pm
Anytime I see people saying someone is low rated, I think they need to look up videos of US 2500 players, whole matches, and see how many weak points, unforced errors, and short rallies they have.

Also I can get games off of people who are technically 1000 points higher than me, or realistically 4-500 points higher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 11:06pm
woah woah woah lolll.  Just cuz i feel ur 19-2000, u dont have to take me seriously.  

I feel that ur 19-2000 and thats just my opinion.  Ofc you may agree or disagree.

Being US 2000 is not an insult by any means.  2000 us is a very good rating and that rating really means you are a very good player already.

After you openly replied by saying you beat a 2200 player by like 39-1 pretty much, i thought about it and maybe i was honestly wrong about you.  I went to look at the video again and honestly i still feel you're 19-2000.

Guys, just because they have some good services, some good service returns and some good rallies, THAT DOES NOT qualify them as like 2200+.  

Not to criticize but I've seen 1800 players have some amazing rallies as well.  It';s the fact that for the most part, you're rallies are honestly good quality just not 2200 quality.  

also, in the first set during the video, I was counting the number of rallies in each point.  Therewere only two points in that first game where the two of you had over 3 rallies.  I'm sorry but even 2100 players have many many points in each set where they go over 3 rallies.

The two of you aren't even really blasting the ball past each other although i really do have to admit that the both of you have some very nice shots.  it seems that the two of you usually win the point off you're opening loop and for the most part, that's about it.

Once again though, I could be right, i could be wrong.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 11:26pm
If you think rally count has anything to do with level of play, then you don't know much about table tennis. They do get a little sloppy after a while, but they are playing a lot of games here. 

Edited by kenneyy88 - 07/22/2011 at 11:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2011 at 11:41pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cXVkeWi_Q

Hey, these guys are no name people, what would you say their ratings are? I mean, look at all those bad serve returns and missed loops! I mean hardly any rally made it past 5 hits and those serve errors...what noobs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:01am
1979 U.S. National Champion Attila Malek (in yellow shirt) against Larry Bavly at last year's U.S. Nationals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muK2v1ftTqU&feature=related

*Attila - rated 2123
*Larry - rated 2140

I think Attila can give Andy a good match... Smile  Not to say Andy does not deserve a 2350-2450 rating (I think it's not out of line), but the fact is many players here in SoCal do not actually have that rating, even though they should.  It's not that easy to earn your deserved rating, actually.  Too many ringers and dumpers around who will upset you here and there to pull your rating down in no time.


Edited by roundrobin - 07/23/2011 at 12:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:30am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

woah woah woah lolll.  Just cuz i feel ur 19-2000, u dont have to take me seriously.  

I feel that ur 19-2000 and thats just my opinion.  Ofc you may agree or disagree.

Being US 2000 is not an insult by any means.  2000 us is a very good rating and that rating really means you are a very good player already.

After you openly replied by saying you beat a 2200 player by like 39-1 pretty much, i thought about it and maybe i was honestly wrong about you.  I went to look at the video again and honestly i still feel you're 19-2000.

Guys, just because they have some good services, some good service returns and some good rallies, THAT DOES NOT qualify them as like 2200+.  

Not to criticize but I've seen 1800 players have some amazing rallies as well.  It';s the fact that for the most part, you're rallies are honestly good quality just not 2200 quality.  

also, in the first set during the video, I was counting the number of rallies in each point.  Therewere only two points in that first game where the two of you had over 3 rallies.  I'm sorry but even 2100 players have many many points in each set where they go over 3 rallies.

The two of you aren't even really blasting the ball past each other although i really do have to admit that the both of you have some very nice shots.  it seems that the two of you usually win the point off you're opening loop and for the most part, that's about it.

Once again though, I could be right, i could be wrong.  

 
hahaa..... I'm sorry but I don't think you've seen very many 2300-2400 players play each other before.
 
I've played plenty of guys at 1900 to 2000, I can beat them once in a while even. But this is NOT 2000 level play. for so many reasons.
 
2300 easy. Funny thing is that I'm pretty sure he used to be a good deal better than he is now too.
 
Just because his strokes don't look like a chinese province player or something says nothing about his game and shot making.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:44am
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

If you think rally count has anything to do with level of play, then you don't know much about table tennis. They do get a little sloppy after a while, but they are playing a lot of games here. 

you're absolutely correct.  however, this was a response to many ppl saying they haev consistent rallies.

also, rallies do play a part.  it's a fact that 2100+ players are steady and have a good number of rallies often.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:46am
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

woah woah woah lolll.  Just cuz i feel ur 19-2000, u dont have to take me seriously.  

I feel that ur 19-2000 and thats just my opinion.  Ofc you may agree or disagree.

Being US 2000 is not an insult by any means.  2000 us is a very good rating and that rating really means you are a very good player already.

After you openly replied by saying you beat a 2200 player by like 39-1 pretty much, i thought about it and maybe i was honestly wrong about you.  I went to look at the video again and honestly i still feel you're 19-2000.

Guys, just because they have some good services, some good service returns and some good rallies, THAT DOES NOT qualify them as like 2200+.  

Not to criticize but I've seen 1800 players have some amazing rallies as well.  It';s the fact that for the most part, you're rallies are honestly good quality just not 2200 quality.  

also, in the first set during the video, I was counting the number of rallies in each point.  Therewere only two points in that first game where the two of you had over 3 rallies.  I'm sorry but even 2100 players have many many points in each set where they go over 3 rallies.

The two of you aren't even really blasting the ball past each other although i really do have to admit that the both of you have some very nice shots.  it seems that the two of you usually win the point off you're opening loop and for the most part, that's about it.

Once again though, I could be right, i could be wrong.  

 
hahaa..... I'm sorry but I don't think you've seen very many 2300-2400 players play each other before.
 
I've played plenty of guys at 1900 to 2000, I can beat them once in a while even. But this is NOT 2000 level play. for so many reasons.
 
2300 easy. Funny thing is that I'm pretty sure he used to be a good deal better than he is now too.
 
Just because his strokes don't look like a chinese province player or something says nothing about his game and shot making.  

beeray, i train and practice at a table tennis club where they host some of the nation's best juniors for their age group.

i see players play at 23-2400 lvl DAILY and i know exactly what it takes for ppl to get to that level.  i grew up watching some of my friends develop from 1800 players to high 2300 hundred players.

guys im not trying to be rude.  im just stating my opinion and once again, i could be wrong.  

i should also clarify what i mean when i brought up that rally count.  you guys are correct for the most part.  rallies, for the most part, don't dictate your skill.  Also Jonan, although I know you're trying to look smart, I will acknowledge your post because you bring up a good fact.
In Jonan's video, T.W and J.B do not have points where their rally count is high.  that is very true.  However, the pace at which the two juniors were playing at, was much faster and much higher level than the pace and level of the video shown here.

Just my 2 cents/


Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 07/23/2011 at 5:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 4:52am
awesome!!hands down!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 4:56am
APW46 if you think that 2000 is an insult then just don't ask the people in this forum don't be insulted on other's opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vassily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 5:40am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

Not to criticize but I've seen 1800 players have some amazing rallies as well.  It';s the fact that for the most part, you're rallies are honestly good quality just not 2200 quality.  


I think you have watched too much youtube highlights.

High amateur level TT is firstly about the brain, then service, receive and touch. Winning epic 50-50 rallies actually means almost nothing, less than 5% of points are won that way. Even at top level its just someone getting caught out and stuffing up the short game (with some different definition of stuffing up) and then getting ripped. Sometimes they get a block or minicouterloop back. Or they get predicted and killed. Counterlooping like a god is extremely fun but unfortunately ultimately neligible.

Also, older people can make up for it. If an older player looks even remotely good, they are usually terrifying. Most juniors look good running around, superfast feet to opening loop, counterloop, etc. But during a game, experience is everything. When to change tactics, what tactics to use, etc etc. Sometimes the juniors get help from being coached so it can mitigate the experience issue somewhat, but generally people play without coaches.

@Wiggy that is some monstrous power from no backswing lol. 30 years worth of touch required to do that?




Edited by Vassily - 07/23/2011 at 5:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 6:25am
The reason that there are not many rallies is because honey is not quite of the standard go go with them, thats really why the game score is 22-2 in my favour, I'm a rally player, not always looking to put balls past players, but to wear them down with consistent topspin, its the way I've always played, even when I was younger and fitter, what does not transmit well on clips like this is the amount of topspin, and ball placement, however what you should maybe do, is think about where Honey would be rated, and then work out how much higher a player would have to be to win 20 games on the trot. There is a Youtube clip of me playing the ex world no 33 in 2002 ( Matt Syed) i'll see if I can find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2011 at 6:29am
Originally posted by Vassily Vassily wrote:

[QUOTE=ZJKandMLfan]


@Wiggy that is some monstrous power from no backswing lol. 30 years worth of touch required to do that?


 
 Thanks Vassily, emphasis on sweet timing and 'borrowing the power' is the secret.
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