Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Some games between me and Robin
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Some games between me and Robin

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
popperlocker View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/24/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1734
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 5:40pm
Bold and well said. I'm terrible with names, don't remember the uk lad's. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Tinykin_2 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/30/2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 540
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin_2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 6:46pm
What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament. 
About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.
Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
Back to Top
tdragon View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 01/26/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by mart1243 mart1243 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-L_ktKP7c

Look especially at the second set where Wiggy is playing very well.
As for the comments about his rating all I can say is it shows that most US players doesn't have a clue about table tennis.
Well! Not sure about your level. But based on your coment. It seems that you don't know anything about table tennis too. Ouch
Please don't put any stupid comment about many people in general.

Edited by tdragon - 07/25/2011 at 7:19pm
Back to Top
APW46 View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament. 
About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.
 I don't really undertand what you are trying to say here tiny?
The Older I get, The better I was.
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament. 
About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.


I don't know one way or the other who would win.  I'd probably bet on Seemiller because he competes more frequently (I think) and is more fit.  Also, he's from the U.S.  :^)  If we backed the clock up to 2008 or earlier, I'd be even more inclined to bet on Seemiller.  But that doesn't mean I wouldn't rate Wiggy around 2400.

As for ratings, any actual rating should be considered as +/- 50 points - at a minimum.  For players who play often enough to have fairly stable ratings numbers, being within that 100 point range means essentially being the same level. Style match-ups and how much each player is on his game is what will decide the match.  When the gap spreads to between 100-200 points, you can start betting money.  You'll lose from time to time, but you'll win a lot more.  Past 200, you can predict the outcome with even greater confidence.  After 300 points you are in the better than 90% chance of predicting the outcome range. But even at these more extreme ratings gaps, I think style match-ups loom large and have a huge impact on outcomes.  I saw two nearly 400 point upsets last weekend in best of five matches.

Danny Seemiller has lost to a player rated below 2300 twice in the last two years.  It's a rare event, but it happens.


Edited by wturber - 07/25/2011 at 9:24pm
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil
Back to Top
ZJKandMLfan View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/19/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by tdragon tdragon wrote:

Originally posted by mart1243 mart1243 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg-L_ktKP7c

Look especially at the second set where Wiggy is playing very well.
As for the comments about his rating all I can say is it shows that most US players doesn't have a clue about table tennis.
Well! Not sure about your level. But based on your coment. It seems that you don't know anything about table tennis too. Ouch
Please don't put any stupid comment about many people in general.

well said
Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX
BH: Tenergy 64, MAX
Back to Top
Tinykin_2 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/30/2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 540
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin_2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 3:35am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament. 
About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.
 I don't really undertand what you are trying to say here tiny?

Two things. Seemiller would beat you if he seriously prepared for a tournament. He's just too good a player despite his age. The ratings doesn't take that into account. This is a guy who was about the same level as Alan Cooke at his best with similar type of results. In fact I've seen him beat Desmond Douglas twice. At the same time you both would have similar ratings +/- 50. 
The second para was me trying to put a USA 2300 player into a ETTA ranking context.

Jay, saying that Seemiller lost to 2300 players is not unusual and says very little. Tell me about the players he lost to. Where are they now? How old were they? If they were Seemiller's age it means one thing. If they were upcoming sharp, trained juniors, it's another. Seemiller must be pushing 60. Was he prepared or was he just playing for fun? It's all about context. Rating is just a small part, yet US forumers make it the biggest part. Have you seen Waldner's record? You wouldn't believe the low rating of some of the players he lost to, even at his peak. That's why I said that you have to look at tournaments where both players have prepared for. And look at the players themselves. Ratings is just one part. Even in Wiggy's case, his rating/ranking does not take account of the vast majority of his matches. Same for most in Europe.
Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
Back to Top
APW46 View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 5:19am
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

What Jay said shows up how silly this rating thing is. I think Wiggy would competitive against 2300+ players. But unless Seemiller is way out of practice, there's no way he could beat Seemiller in a significant tournament. 
About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.
 I don't really undertand what you are trying to say here tiny?

Two things. Seemiller would beat you if he seriously prepared for a tournament. He's just too good a player despite his age. The ratings doesn't take that into account. This is a guy who was about the same level as Alan Cooke at his best with similar type of results. In fact I've seen him beat Desmond Douglas twice.
 
 
 Tinykin, you have to take into account age and the fact that the game advances, I recently beat John Hilton, Now I don't for a minute believe that it was for any other reason than the fact that he's 65 yrs old, Its the same with Danny Seemillar, I think he was quoted because of how he plays NOW, not 25 yrs ago, when he would be in the top 3 in USA.
The Older I get, The better I was.
Back to Top
APW46 View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 5:23am
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

About 3 years back, there was a USA rated 2300 player at a Grand Prix tournament here, Michael [????]. Apparently he emigrated from the UK so learned his craft here. He was quite tricky with his SP backhand. He was eventually knocked out in Band 1 by Abdul Waraola, a very crafty player himself. I rated Michael as a 50-100 player.
 
 Was he left handed? sounds like Mike Levene, played him many times, when he was in UK he was ranked around 180.
The Older I get, The better I was.
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 9:23am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

what blade rubber combo are you using? and robin?

above 2200 no question. since in videos we always look like 200 below our raying the 2400 figure seems right to me.
 
 I use Stiga allround classic blade with T05 2.1 on f/hand and T05 1.9 on b/hand.

If APW46 only uses 1.9 on BH, then I better stay off the MAX Smile.

APW46 - if you can share the reason for using 1.9 on the BH, it would be great, as I see that you have a very strong BH, and often play away from the table, I would think 2.1 would be better for you.  (I am not questioning your choice of rubber, just trying to understand it for my own benefit).
Back to Top
bluebucket View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 02/20/2011
Location: 16
Status: Offline
Points: 2882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 9:55am
1.9 is the normal thickness of Tenergy to use on the BH, either that or 1.7 for most Europeans, they are much more sensible when it comes to sponge than Americans are. 

You want to be able to get the ball on the blade at your full power soooooo many players cant do that with max sponge. Tenergy makes a distinctive sound when it's at it's limits and it's not something you hear very often amongst tenergy users. I would say at least 90% of club players can't hit hard enough to qualify for 2.1 T05
Back to Top
ZJKandMLfan View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/19/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 10:08am
i went up to erie to play a couple times where seemiller and his group of juniors regularly go up there to play.

seemiller does not prepare for tournaments nor does he practice hard.  he just coaches his players and trains with them.  you will not really see him drill to upgrade or maintain his own standards.

It's the fact that danny has such a good foundation that even with limited practice, he can keep up with most.

also, look at danny's match history.  very rarely does he lost to senior players who are his age or lower.  he mainly loses to juniors
Blade: Photino
FH: Donic Acuda S1, MAX
BH: Tenergy 64, MAX
Back to Top
APW46 View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 02/02/2009
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 10:40am
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

what blade rubber combo are you using? and robin?

above 2200 no question. since in videos we always look like 200 below our raying the 2400 figure seems right to me.
 
 I use Stiga allround classic blade with T05 2.1 on f/hand and T05 1.9 on b/hand.

If APW46 only uses 1.9 on BH, then I better stay off the MAX Smile.

APW46 - if you can share the reason for using 1.9 on the BH, it would be great, as I see that you have a very strong BH, and often play away from the table, I would think 2.1 would be better for you.  (I am not questioning your choice of rubber, just trying to understand it for my own benefit).

 More control, it allows me to play a heavy topspin to a quick incoming ball, so I can slow the tempo of the rally in my favour, it probably does not come across too well in the clips, but my b/hand topspin is loaded, and I also like the feeling of the ball bottoming out when I flat hit.
So my b/hand is constantly varying and working the ball, the f/hand is just the hammer that knocks the nail in.
The Older I get, The better I was.
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 11:45am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:


 More control, it allows me to play a heavy topspin to a quick incoming ball, so I can slow the tempo of the rally in my favour, it probably does not come across too well in the clips, but my b/hand topspin is loaded, and I also like the feeling of the ball bottoming out when I flat hit.
So my b/hand is constantly varying and working the ball, the f/hand is just the hammer that knocks the nail in.

I see.  I found that I too play better with 2.0 or less on the BH, but I thought that was because I punch, block, and hit more than loop.  It's good to know that even for someone playing top spin like you, thinner rubber on the BH is still a benefit.  Thank you for the clear response.
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:


Jay, saying that Seemiller lost to 2300 players is not unusual and says very little.


That is not what I said.  I quite clearly said that it was "a rare event."

Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:


Tell me about the players he lost to. Where are they now? How old were they? If they were Seemiller's age it means one thing. If they were upcoming sharp, trained juniors, it's another. Seemiller must be pushing 60.


Danny Seemiller is 56 or 57 years old. Four to five years older than me. The most recent of those two losses was to Fred Cantarelli.  Fred is a college player, but is not having a rapid climb in level.  He has improved less than 100 points over the last three years.  The other was Tung D. Phan who has been between 2200-2300 for the last 16 years.  I don't know his age.

Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

Was he prepared or was he just playing for fun? It's all about context.

I've never seen Danny Seemiller just play for fun in a tournament.  That's one thing I really like about him - his intensity, drive and focus. Yes, context and situation matter.  So do playing styles.
I went through a fair bit of trouble to say that and to give some idea of the degree of precision that you can expect from a USATT rating.

You said that there was "no way" that Wiggy would beat Seemiller in a serious tournament.  I'm simply saying that it is certainly possible if their levels are even in the ballpark of each other.  I'd still bet on Seemiller (sorry Wiggy).  Knowing a person's rating gives you an idea of what is possible and likely.  But it isn't the final say by a long shot.  That's why we play the match.

I was surprised to see Seemiller lose this match even though the ratings levels were similar between the players.  Seemiller did beat Avishy a month later in straight games at the 2010 US Open.

Sorry for the shaky video.  I was on the way out, ready to drive back to Arizona, when I saw this close match ending and had no tripod available.










Edited by wturber - 07/26/2011 at 1:36pm
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Danny Seemiller lost to Seattle player Sakda Timsuwan (one of our local heroes) last year in the Nationals. He was pretty dissapointed; I heard him telling his buddy later "I lost Sakda; 1st time ever...".


Sure.  Sakda was rated 2376 to Seemiller's  2461.  If your rating is within 100 points of your opponent, you need to take each other very seriously.  Of the four matches between these two, this one that Seemiller lost was the one where the ratings gap was narrowest.  Ratings do convey some degree of useful information - even if far too many players overestimate what is being communicated.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil
Back to Top
stevejackson900 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/06/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevejackson900 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2012 at 2:21pm
Thats awesome i would agree. Thumbs up for this one
Back to Top
collins.latag View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/10/2012
Location: CA US
Status: Offline
Points: 407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2012 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Ha, I played a USATT 2200 rated player over a whole wkend last year and he won one game out of about 40...Also in Uk I was ranked one place above Ben Johnson last time he was in UK, 


Playing him In the English premier division, USATT 2000 is an insult Guys!

I think you are at 2400. Your style of play is not all flashy but the consistency is indeed there. 
PPisLife

Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic
Back to Top
collins.latag View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/10/2012
Location: CA US
Status: Offline
Points: 407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2012 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Danny Seemiller lost to Seattle player Sakda Timsuwan (one of our local heroes) last year in the Nationals. He was pretty dissapointed; I heard him telling his buddy later "I lost Sakda; 1st time ever...".
Sakda plays Sardius with inverted and long pips. He is well over 40 and is an accomplished athlete. He twiddles A LOT and can even loop with long pips lol. He can loop from both wings and chop with the LP  from both sides.
 
 
 
Here, Sakda plays the great Ernesto Ebuen:

Wow... the great Ernesto Ebuen. :) He is indeed a very good player and a very good coach! His dad who is also named Ernesto is fun to watch as well. :)
PPisLife

Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic
Back to Top
collins.latag View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/10/2012
Location: CA US
Status: Offline
Points: 407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2012 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cXVkeWi_Q

Hey, these guys are no name people, what would you say their ratings are? I mean, look at all those bad serve returns and missed loops! I mean hardly any rally made it past 5 hits and those serve errors...what noobs!

LOL... i'm sure they are ranked way higher than me. (just to be on the safe side) :P. Anyone could feel the power they emphasize to open each rally. :)
PPisLife

Blade:TBS Rubber: Donic
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 13388
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2012 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:



 Well thank you there wturber, for a good insight to the differences from each side of the pond. 

I think on a forum such as this it is important to share knowledge, but at times hard to put across as one would like it to be received. The reason I can be competitive to a good standard even at my age, and lets face it lack of mobility, is because of the way I play, I'm definitely not saying there is any kind of short cut ( I've put the hours in) but there are different ways of approaching the game, I know the general ethos in USA is to play a more positive Chinese style, we could look on numerous threads about Chinese vs Euro f/hands, But it really worries me when I see countless players trying to adopt a technique that they are never going to get anywhere near perfecting. 
I do regularly beat young players, faster, fitter, more mobile than me ( I also regularly lose to them), but I am always in the match, because the heavy topspin stops them steam-rollering straight through me, in effect it either slows them down to my pace, or they beat me, if they beat me, that is it, if I can ( through their FORCED errors) slow them down, I usually beat them, because I take them out of their comfort zone, and will counter loop on both wings consistently.
In a nutshell, if you are 15, have money and resources to improve, ignore me, if you are 20 plus, have limited time and money to improve, follow my dictum.
 But most of all, If you are not part of a national elite program, and wish to play competitively after the age of 40, forget trying to develop a 'Chinese Loop'  Putting yr back out at 32 is painful, and will signify the end of your career


Will take this to heart going forward - it will be my inspiration for how to develop my game.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.