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Two serves, one stroke.

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APW46 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:07pm
This is a nice little piece of editing by Honey, showing some of my service variation.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 5:40pm
Both of those serves where long, so I would have loop killed them both. You must learn how to keep your serve shorter, or else you will always be sub 2000 Usatt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Funahurnna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 6:48pm
Nice video and nice serves. It is interesting to note the position of the arm (part between shoulder and elbow) at the end of "backswing". On the top-spin kick service, the elbow is high (at shoulder level) at peak during backswing. On the heavy deep backspin the arm is lower in a more "neutral" position at backswing.

Of course the serving player's body blocks the view somewhat from the receiver, but this cue can probably used to anticipate the service. (Of course cunning person serving might use elbow raising as misdirection Wink).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Both of those serves where long, so I would have loop killed them both. You must learn how to keep your serve shorter, or else you will always be sub 2000 Usatt.

lol i was thinking the same u never really know till u really face him haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaplink_pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 9:36pm
Since 2003 I have been a member here and why do I always read the phrases, "When your serve is long, I will always loop kill it"...

I guess almost all players here are above world top 10 level...

*considering the fact that many others just use the phrase sarcastically just to provoke others to post...


Edited by slaplink_pat - 07/24/2011 at 9:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 9:42pm
The underspin serve has a distinct "brushed with rubber" sound vs the "hit with rubber sound" of the long serve. It seems Honey has been surprised by the long serve, rather than having misread the spin. I have seen really good players who can loop both serves with the same swing, essentially eliminating the need to make a decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 10:20pm
slaplink_pat, u dont need to even be top 1000 to loop kill long serves lol...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2011 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Both of those serves where long, so I would have loop killed them both. You must learn how to keep your serve shorter, or else you will always be sub 2000 Usatt.


Trolololol

There's several 2000+ players at my club who almost always serve long to start off the rally their way, you can loop kill as hard as you want, but if its to the spot they wanted it to be they will just sit there and counter it back past you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 12:11am
If anyone knows Speedplay and Andy, it would be very obvious Speedplay is having some fun at Andy's expense. In the APW vs Robin thread, Speedplay just wrote that Andy is 2400 level and consistantly says this accross the TT forums. seems like only Magnus got it, a little late, but seemed to get it.
 
Score: Speedplay 5, Rest of Forum 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaplink_pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 1:04am
Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

slaplink_pat, u dont need to even be top 1000 to loop kill long serves lol...

I know. Even 6 year olds can loop kill. 

But the fact that some of you guys comment as if you can completely kill or even just attack long serves almost all the time is just plain BS. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 1:56am
I am bookmarking this video. Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 4:54am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

If anyone knows Speedplay and Andy, it would be very obvious Speedplay is having some fun at Andy's expense. In the APW vs Robin thread, Speedplay just wrote that Andy is 2400 level and consistantly says this accross the TT forums. seems like only Magnus got it, a little late, but seemed to get it.
 
Score: Speedplay 5, Rest of Forum 1
 of course he was Joking, Speedplay knows well that I can serve tight at will, those serves are 'carrots'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBtabletennis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 12:46pm
Seriously this serve works also against pip and anti players. But yes, it depends on which level you play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2011 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by slaplink_pat slaplink_pat wrote:

Originally posted by ZJKandMLfan ZJKandMLfan wrote:

slaplink_pat, u dont need to even be top 1000 to loop kill long serves lol...

I know. Even 6 year olds can loop kill. 

But the fact that some of you guys comment as if you can completely kill or even just attack long serves almost all the time is just plain BS. 

first time i ever said something like this.  and i even said but then again, you can't be certain until you play him.

so i dont know when i "almost all the time" say this, or i can "COMPLETELY" kill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 6:26am
Good to see that some people caught up with the fun =)

The reason I posted this is because around all the TT forums, there seems to be a myth that all long serves can and should be killed. Not sure what level you guys play at, but at my level, a long serve isn't exactly a suicide, even if it's well announced but certainly not if it's disguised.

I regularly watch the two top leagues in Sweden, where the quality of play is way higher then the level I play at, but even at this level, it's not a certain kill. Long serves do have their place in TT, and I would love to have those 2 serves performed by APW in this clip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chu_bun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 10:03am
If I serve long, I'll get loop killed.  If I serve short, I'll get flip killed.  What am I to do?  Please teach me 2000 level gods :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 10:12am
Originally posted by chu_bun chu_bun wrote:

If I serve long, I'll get loop killed.  If I serve short, I'll get flip killed.  What am I to do?  Please teach me 2000 level gods :)

serve nice and high so they won't loop or flip? :)


Edited by ZJKandMLfan - 07/26/2011 at 10:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 11:28am
Originally posted by chu_bun chu_bun wrote:

If I serve long, I'll get loop killed.  If I serve short, I'll get flip killed.  What am I to do?  Please teach me 2000 level gods :)


You have to alternate between backspin, topspin, and nospin serves and use as much of the same serve motion as possible and do as much of your serve backswing as possible behind you so they cant anticipate your racket angle and thus spin type. If you have a hard time disguising serve motions throw a little racket twitch after you serve to throw them off.

A good opponent will be watching your racket the whole time, noobs watch the ball.  ;3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 11:51am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

This is a nice little piece of editing by Honey, showing some of my service variation.
 
I tried this at practice tonight, the result against player lower level is good, against the better player it sometimes work sometimes not (more not than work though LOL). But overall good variation to have on my serves arsenal... Thanks for posting this..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 12:11pm
There is always a place for long attackable serves even at high levels, especially when combined with short tight serves, the secret is to make all your serves look exactly the same up to the point of contact. Look at the two serves from 2:09 onwards here, Honey is totally owned by the second serve, there is no indication to him of what he is about to receive.


 The second serve is more potent, because of the first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 1:56pm
I don't mean that there is no place at high level for it Wiggy.. just that the good players adjust to it very quickly, but this is the first time I use it, there is a lot room for improvement. I haven't tried the short serves, I will try to keep it short the next time I practice.. 
The third variation of that serve, the float, is actually working very well and produced some chance ball I can attack, even some outright point..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by racquetsforsale racquetsforsale wrote:

It seems Honey has been surprised by the long serve, rather than having misread the spin. 


No, Honey misread the spin thus was surprised when the topspin ball kicked into him. You can see he opened his racket to push the "backspin" until the last moment when it was too late...


Edited by ZingyDNA - 07/26/2011 at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:



A good opponent will be watching your racket the whole time, noobs watch the ball.  ;3


Well I guess I am a noob because sometimes I get fooled by the racket's deceptive motion, so I always watch the ball after the contact, especially how it bounces...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote riker71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 2:23pm
Good serving, liking the bionic man sound effects too in the slo-mo. The only thing I would say is that the ball toss is a little too far back for my liking, I have only had to pull one guy up doing that in a league match as it was pretty blatant and often gets extra spin, particularly backspin when done. Of course no one is perfect... I find a combination of long/short/heavy spin/no spin wins me points against most players. I am practising doing pure heavy backspin as excellently shown in the video below by Stefan Feth, in fact I recommend the whole series

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjhm__JyNM8&playnext=1&list=PL91B8199077F0E3A3


Edited by riker71 - 07/26/2011 at 2:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2011 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by racquetsforsale racquetsforsale wrote:

It seems Honey has been surprised by the long serve, rather than having misread the spin. 


No, Honey misread the spin thus was surprised when the topspin ball kicked into him. You can see he opened his racket to push the "backspin" until the last moment when it was too late...


Correct Zingy.

As APW has pointed out, its the combination of the serves that is the important thing.

The first serve was completely loaded with BS. (backspin, not bulls***!!). I haven't had a proper look back through, but this was probably the first time in the games APW had served BS deep at me. Looking at the shot I played, I probably expected a float/light topspin. Lets not even get into the fact that I should have played a FH.

The next serve I completely mis-read. I would never return a long serve with a push without good reason, so APW had obviously really got my head in a twist here. I tried a last minute dig as I'd already opened up my bat, but it was loaded.

Oh and I play with Andro Impuls Speed 2.0mm on both sides. Butterfly Primorac Off- (An) blade.

Thanks for all the comments and compliments on the video.
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