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[Video] Playing when I'm calm

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    Posted: 04/22/2011 at 4:36am
Here is more video of me playing the same guy as my "Playing when I'm frustrated" video.  I think we can agree that performance is better.  I've also found a better solution when receiving his serves too!

http://youtu.be/fuDBxbutXY8

Comment if you want!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 7:35am
Hi , I only watched the first game but I counted 16 times where the ball went over 2 times or less and mainly only once over, so both of you must improve returning serves, I think the average rally in TT is only about 3.7 times over so I tell my students if they can return a serve they are in half of all Table tennis rallys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 9:24am
you and your partner have a very good service.I agree to smackman and you have to improve your spin and don't just use your arms use your hips and your feet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ninglei23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 9:26am
ONE more thing your timing 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:32am
you have a lot of trouble with body serves (like me ). i would like to suggest that you start taking them with the bh instead of the fh because you're way too off balance when you do a fh return. plus you're giving away a lot of table space/angle. and he seems to punish you a lot for it too...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:42am
monster loops are missing the table bc ur not spinning enough....too much hitting i think. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 10:52am
Great job of putting some of the forehand practice you've done this year into matchplay!
It's sweet that when everything aligns (spin, placement, footwork), you can put a ball past a 2000 player.  Just out of curiosity's sake, I challenge you to count the # of FH winners vs errors in each game.

Your serve and 3rd balls are definitely your strengths.

2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th balls are what need the work.

I agree with tpg2k that receiving serve with your BH will help you survive more serves.

It will also help you develop positioning that allows you to return 3rd ball drives (by being able to cover your wide FH better). Where is that backhand topspin you've worked on, I know you can make those shots!

Your opponent gets a lot of easy points by pushing a ball at your elbow or topspinning wide to your forehand (he plays position against you instead of power).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qynthnghm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 12:03pm
To be honest, I was just watching that lonely girl practice serves by herself the entire time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carbon TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 12:35pm

You are still way over commiting on your serve returns, you don't have to return every single one with your FH.  Another thing I noticed is that every serve your opponent seems to do, you pounce on it.  It almost looks like your assuming every serve is going to be short.  I used to have the same problem and I would always get burned on the long serves by having to make some sort of akward return that usually got ripped, if it landed at all.  Take your time on service return, don't just immediately step in when you see the contact.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carbon TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

To be honest, I was just watching that lonely girl practice serves by herself the entire time.
 
She seems to have decent serves too, most were double bouncing or half-long.  Does she have a rating OP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 12:44pm
i think these guys are wondering if she's single
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carbon TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

i think these guys are wondering if she's single
 
If that's what I had been thinking I would have made some sort of ill advised comment on her appearanceTongueLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 1:34pm

Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

To be honest, I was just watching that lonely girl practice serves by herself the entire time.




 
She seems to have decent serves too, most were double bouncing or half-long.  Does she have a rating OP?

Actually, her serves are pretty bad except her long serve and bh serve. Her short serves have no spin as hard as she tries to put more spin. I think her rating is around 900?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carbon TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:


Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

To be honest, I was just watching that lonely girl practice serves by herself the entire time.




 
She seems to have decent serves too, most were double bouncing or half-long.  Does she have a rating OP?

Actually, her serves are pretty bad except her long serve and bh serve. Her short serves have no spin as hard as she tries to put more spin. I think her rating is around 900?
 
Oh lol, at that distance it is hard to tell if they have any spin.  Maybe she would be better if there was a person on the other end to practice withLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 1:50pm
she just needs more strength in her wrist. same problem with my gf. she can't produce spin much. her timing and effort just isn't there yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZJKandMLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Great job of putting some of the forehand practice you've done this year into matchplay!
It's sweet that when everything aligns (spin, placement, footwork), you can put a ball past a 2000 player.  Just out of curiosity's sake, I challenge you to count the # of FH winners vs errors in each game.

Your serve and 3rd balls are definitely your strengths.

2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th balls are what need the work.

I agree with tpg2k that receiving serve with your BH will help you survive more serves.

It will also help you develop positioning that allows you to return 3rd ball drives (by being able to cover your wide FH better). Where is that backhand topspin you've worked on, I know you can make those shots!

Your opponent gets a lot of easy points by pushing a ball at your elbow or topspinning wide to your forehand (he plays position against you instead of power).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruit loop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2011 at 5:06pm
I thoroughly enjoyed watching 11minutes composed of copious amounts of unforced errors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2011 at 3:32am
@tpgh2k i dont believe it is actually lack of wrist strength but more of wrist control.  timing and technique has a lot to do with it.  when i watch her practice her serves, her wrist is already cocked downward before she even serves.  how do you expect to get that violent transfer of spin?  on that thought, i really need to practice my serves as i unlocked a whole dimension to my serve but i havent had the time to perfect it yet...

@ZJKandMLfan yes that guy is actually a 2000.  most matches of my matches look really boring with tons of unforced errors on both sides even when my opponents are eventually matched or much better than me.  not sure why that is...  unless my opponent is at a much lower level, its usually just unforced errors on that side.  people usually have issues with my serves and shortgame (unless that person is much better than me at both)  playing someone like at 2200+ will be super lopsided like my coach totally owning just from serve and shortgame...


thanks everyone else for the tips on how to receive his serves.  next time i play him, i will implement more of what my coach has advised me to do first though.  he advised me to get ready for a long serve every time and step around to give a quality loop.  there are of course more details to this.  not sure if you guys agree with him, but i know it definitely puts a lot more pressure on my opponent.  i will eventually try that bh return.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2011 at 5:38am
Check this video out. (I am the one in grey)
I was quite pleased with my footwork and shot decision on this day.
The guy I'm playing is in Division 1 (I am division 2)and has about 50% beating some pretty good players. He serves really well.
I don't know how you would rate him but if you yourself would play him I think you would get annoyed receiving his serves alone. Watch this vid and maybe try pick up some things on how I deal with the serves on BH and also how I chose my shots carefully. It might help you when playing against players better than you. He wasn't playing particularly great that night but you can still tell he is a good player.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2011 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:


most matches of my matches look really boring with tons of unforced errors on both sides even when my opponents are eventually matched or much better than me.  not sure why that is...  unless my opponent is at a much lower level, its usually just unforced errors on that side. 


it's been my experience that this happens whenever players are better at generating higher levels of spin or pace than that which they can correctly read or respond.

for example, how many times have you served heavy underspin only to receive a 2nd ball push that was loaded with much more spin than you could comfortably handle?

similarly, when you happen to play someone with a good block, have you noticed that the biggest gun (the FH drive) frequently becomes the biggest liability?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2011 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


it's been my experience that this happens whenever players are better at generating higher levels of spin or pace than that which they can correctly read or respond.

for example, how many times have you served heavy underspin only to receive a 2nd ball push that was loaded with much more spin than you could comfortably handle?

similarly, when you happen to play someone with a good block, have you noticed that the biggest gun (the FH drive) frequently becomes the biggest liability?

when i serve something loaded with topspin, the my opponent usually pushes into the net, or they push it to a good position.  It's usually less or equal spin, never experienced a push with more spin.  Not too troublesome as long as I'm in position.

Yes someone with a good block can be hard to play.  My training partner is mostly plays a block and counter game.  I don't bother to drive the ball unless it's a definite kill.  Just give more spin and he will screw up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archie10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2011 at 3:04pm
@ohhgourami - Random question.. Where in California do you play?
i'll be the Manny Pacquiao of table tennis.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2011 at 7:07pm
Usually in UCSD or at my club GLTTC in LA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liberty.sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2011 at 9:26pm
black: need to work on timing with serve.
0:22 way too low. keep your racket near the baseline 
0:23 good attempt but 2 probs: 1 your return was late 2 you're off balance upwards. should be inclined forwards if you want to make that in 
0:35 good shot. don't assume it's over. anyone over 1400 can return that easy. back to ready towards center . since it's wide fh corner, more likely to be crosscourt fh return. so you should be moving to center expecting wide fh.
0:44 very good by blue. black train your movement. your hesitation shows you haven't practiced moving to catch balls until it's natural
1:00 drawback too far & too much hit = miss. carry the ball. should feel light and a tug
1:07 for such a long serve, no point to flip. racket face and body position was too open. flew high
1:41 too much power. to improve in practice, don't kill the shot. practice control and consistency

(i ff skipped around at this point) 
overall: lot of misses with fh bc of too much power/arm strength usage ending up as a hit and late reaching the ball due to drawback. blue's form is better. work with him to improve it.
the skip step flip/push mix is  not good. either needs to be an attack or push. angle is incorrect. all the shots i saw here though could have been attacked with a bh or step around fh. 

1. improve fh and power usage. should be relaxed and come from the core not arm strength 10:29 is a good example of correct usage. the 2nd shot after that is an example of the problem i identify of incorrect power usage.

2. work on serve return attack. blue didn't give you any tough serves. do this before learning pushes/flips (tip: when flipping, elbow should not be locked/arm so extended)

*also, not sure what you're using, but your bh rubber is too fast for your current level. fh rubber seems ok though i would recommend a sriver type rubber. 40 deg is too hard for you currently. your touch is not there yet. go for 35 - 38 deg.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2011 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by liberty.sky liberty.sky wrote:

black: need to work on timing with serve.
0:22 way too low. keep your racket near the baseline 
0:23 good attempt but 2 probs: 1 your return was late 2 you're off balance upwards. should be inclined forwards if you want to make that in 
0:35 good shot. don't assume it's over. anyone over 1400 can return that easy. back to ready towards center . since it's wide fh corner, more likely to be crosscourt fh return. so you should be moving to center expecting wide fh.
0:44 very good by blue. black train your movement. your hesitation shows you haven't practiced moving to catch balls until it's natural
1:00 drawback too far & too much hit = miss. carry the ball. should feel light and a tug
1:07 for such a long serve, no point to flip. racket face and body position was too open. flew high
1:41 too much power. to improve in practice, don't kill the shot. practice control and consistency

(i ff skipped around at this point) 
overall: lot of misses with fh bc of too much power/arm strength usage ending up as a hit and late reaching the ball due to drawback. blue's form is better. work with him to improve it.
the skip step flip/push mix is  not good. either needs to be an attack or push. angle is incorrect. all the shots i saw here though could have been attacked with a bh or step around fh. 

1. improve fh and power usage. should be relaxed and come from the core not arm strength 10:29 is a good example of correct usage. the 2nd shot after that is an example of the problem i identify of incorrect power usage.

2. work on serve return attack. blue didn't give you any tough serves. do this before learning pushes/flips (tip: when flipping, elbow should not be locked/arm so extended)

*also, not sure what you're using, but your bh rubber is too fast for your current level. fh rubber seems ok though i would recommend a sriver type rubber. 40 deg is too hard for you currently. your touch is not there yet. go for 35 - 38 deg.

I know your tips mean well but my opponent is ~2000.  And changing to sriver on fh is not going to help my game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zheyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2011 at 11:54pm
imho you just need to touch up your strokes more especially foot works..
block more top spin and back spin from your backhand for more feel..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote conradsong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2011 at 12:21am
Originally posted by ohhgourami ohhgourami wrote:

Here is more video of me playing the same guy as my "Playing when I'm frustrated" video.  I think we can agree that performance is better.  I've also found a better solution when receiving his serves too!

http://youtu.be/fuDBxbutXY8

Comment if you want!
 
Here's my suggestions in order:
1.  Fix your attitude.  You absolutely should not kill yourself after missing each and every shot.  The pros absolutely do not do this.  When they miss a shot, they aren't saying why and baka, they're actually replaying the point in their mind to figure out their mistake and fixing their position, posture, and stroke.  If you do this, you're playing twice as many matches and you're winning half of them in your head.  Otherwise, you're just losing all your matches.
2.  Fix your serve.  People have commented that you have good service.  You have a decent amount of spin and deception but otherwise not enough variability besides top and underspin; serves are generally too high placement, too deep, and too biased on the opponent's left side of the table, when you actually switched short to the forehand you won more points.  You absolutely should not be missing serves.  One for the entire match is bad enough, and I counted two in one game, and at least one in every game.  Your serves are too high, and I didn't see any lets.  I state this as second, because you can fix this on your own time, by yourself.  You do not need a practice partner.  A miss service is an error, and errors are double bad because you could not contest the point -- you not only did not win a point, you gave one to your opponent.
3.  Still no service return.  I did not see a single push from you.  When you opponent gave you a really nice low serve, you did not do a safe return, no heavy push at all.  You have to play your percentages; a very low under spin serve should invoke a heavy push from you; a higher underspin serve should invoke a flip, or strike if very high.  And you need this for variation.  And when your opponent gave you top spin serves back to back, still need to land more.
4.  No backhand.  I saw one backhand land the entire match.  If you're not going to use your backhand you might as well play penhold so you can get over the table direction and control.  You're not moving fast enough to just use your forehand the entire match.  Example: end of first, your opponent knew this and dropped a fast toss wide to your forehand.
 
As for slower rubber, as long as you improve it doesn't matter.  But a better player will still beat you just as easy with an all around blade and Sriver rubber.  A more control rubber with softer sponge will help you focus on technique more to improve speed and spin, and still land more shots on the table.
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