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Review: Tuttle Beijing IV |
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richrf 
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Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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 Posted: 03/03/2012 at 10:17am |
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Pace emphasized that you need a powerful and fast swing to get the most out of the rubber. Probably because you need to penetrate the hard top sheet to get to the soft sponge. For this reason he thought that it is more of a forehand rubber where he could get that kind of power. As much as I love my game and would like to believe I have that kind of power when driving and looping, I know I do not. I probably will continue to use rubber with softer top sheets.
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razortt
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 11:28am |
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The topsheet is soft , what Pacer is saying is that if you drive it hard, you can get the maximum benefit out of this rubber. Thanks. |
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tommyzai
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Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 12:01pm |
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Gluing up, but will have to wait a couple days to hit and finish review. :-(.
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For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
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mon22
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 12:55pm |
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The topsheet is definitely softer than what you expect rich
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I am a total Newb. Come at me!
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dingyibvs
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 2:58pm |
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IMO you'll really enjoy it. Personally, I don't know what Brian Pace is talking about. Maybe he just assumed that it has a typical Chinese topsheet because it's a Chinese rubber, but it really doesn't. The topsheet is very soft and not tacky at all. It's got power, but it's not terribly fast, and it's really controllable. It's kind of odd in that it's bouncy and quick, but it doesn't really pop up in the short game, maybe due to the soft topsheet, so it's fairly controllable in the short game as well. Also, it's not as powerful as Pace described, and his comment regarding how you'll have to hit hard with it maybe refers to the fact that it's not disproportionately powerful with light strokes like some tensors are. The rubber performs pretty linearly, you get the amount of power you put in, but it's hardly like a traditional Chinese rubber which you have to hit really hard and engage the power of the blade or else it'll be slow as molasses. You know, thinking about it again, this rubber is a lot like a T64 light. It doesn't quite "feel" like a Tenergy, nothing does, but it plays quite similarly in that it's got the unique advantages and disadvantage the Tenergies have on the Tensors and traditional Chinese rubbers. It's also got a similar throw, which is important for people who've gotten used to medium-high throw rubbers like the T64 and the H3. But of course, I've only had one session with it, I'll need a couple more weeks to get a full opinion.
Edited by dingyibvs - 03/03/2012 at 3:06pm |
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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pnachtwey
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Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 5:12pm |
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I just mounted my Tuttle Beijing IV black on my Firewall+. I mounted it there first because it was replacing a black H3 #19 that I had there before on my FH. My H3 #19 was getting beat up around the edges so after looking at the Beijing IV it looked like a perfect candidate for replacing the H3. I have IQUL SV Max and a 802-40 max also waiting to takes its turn on the Firewall+. I have GD Talon 0X on the BH. I will move the rubber to smaller paddles as time goes on. I didn't want to mount it on my Samsonov Alphas first because they have a small head and I wouldn't be able to move the Beijing IV anywhere else after that.
I just just recorded some video. You guys will get to see me make a few strokes. I will go home to process it but I thought I would write this first. My first impressions is that it is much softer and and much less tacky than the H3 #19 it replaced. Beijing IV can only pick up a ball for a fraction of a second. You will see this in the video. The top sheet is very soft and compliant. Both the H3 #19 and the Beijing IV are similar in speed but the Beijing is probably a little slower. Both feel slow and the Firewall+ which is rate ALL. The rubber is loud when you flat hit it. You will hear it in the video. I use the sound as feed back to tell when I am brushing the ball. If I don't hear the click sound I know am doing a good brush loop. Surprisingly chops were deadly and easy to do. I played with another person for 1 hour and did about 6 chops and I only missed one, the other 5 didn't come back. 6 chops in an hour is not many. I am not a real chopper, I just like to mix things up to keep the opponent adapting to me instead of me adapting to him. Another surprise was the easy of doing little wrist loops in the short game. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. The soft top sheet and rubber easily cups the ball at slow speed and allow one to do a little loop when the ball is over the table where one can't make a full stroke. I lifted a few chopped balls. The person I played with isn't a real chopper. I returned his chopped balls easily. I think returning is more a matter of technique than the rubber so I won't make a big deal about it. In the video I did try some FH loops from about 2 meters back. It can be done but it took some effort. I agree with some of the comments above. There is nothing really fantastic about the rubber, it just seems to play well and it took little adjustment. Icontek, this is a rubber made to appeal to the mass market. I can't imagine any professional using Beijing IV as one would be worn out swinging hard in the loop vs loop rallies. Bejing IV is a good control rubber that could be used as a beginner's rubber. It is very controllable. I agree with dingyibvs' statements butI hate using the "T" word , I would say it has a medium high spin / speed ratio. H3 #19 and Beijing IV are similar in price so I thought these two rubbers would be a good starter for comparison. I have a new IQUL SV Max to compare to which is also about the same price. I will edit this later or make another post. |
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AndySmith
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 5:16pm |
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Very interested to hear how it compares to iqul sv! Must be close to the target market.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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the_theologian
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 5:29pm |
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I was wondering about the same comparison. In the last few days I've tried IQUL SV 2.0mm on the backhand of a Burn OFF- and ALL-. I had to admit that I was able to lift backspin on short balls better than I can with Shark II (at least my latest sheet of max sponge, anyway). As I'm reading about this Tuttle rubber I'm curious how I'd like it on the backhand.
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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pnachtwey
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 6:03pm |
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I will start a new thread with video. You will see me looping with my BH with the Beijing IV on the Firewall Plus. I would normally twiddle to do this. The video will be out later tonight or tomorrow. It takes time to process.
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mon22
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 6:06pm |
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So far topsheet-wise it reminds me a lot of the focus III snipe. Softer and faster though Btw, I have a red sheet
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I am a total Newb. Come at me!
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dingyibvs
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:18pm |
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I hated the Focus III snipe, I still have a pretty much brand new sheet stored away somewhere. If anybody has an used IQUL SV and wants to trade for a Focus3, I'd love to do so so I can compare it to the Beijing 4.
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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mon22
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:55pm |
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i actually do have a sheet of iqul sv 35degree
2.0 though
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I am a total Newb. Come at me!
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pnachtwey
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:55pm |
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I am going to compare Beijing IV with IQUL SV Max. I have IQUL SV Max already. I bought it in case I didn't like the H3 #19 on my Firewall Plus. As it turns out the H3 #19 worked well but it got beat up around the edges so it will be transferred to my Samsonov Alpha where the beat up edges can be trimmed off because the Samsonov Alpha has a smaller head. The Beijing IV just recently got inserted in my queue of rubbers to try ahead of the IQUL SV Max for this test. Wait. More to come. PS. The next PC whether is going to have a SSD on it and 4 cores or more. Video processing takes too long otherwise. Edited by pnachtwey - 03/03/2012 at 10:00pm |
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mrdoodzki
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Posted: 03/03/2012 at 11:20pm |
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anyone in the philippines selling beijing IV?
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Blade -- Stiga Clipper
FH -- DHS Hurricane 3 BH -- Japtec Experience HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball |
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bogeyhunter
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Joined: 02/22/2006 Location: Jacksonville, F Status: Offline Points: 1245 |
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Posted: 03/04/2012 at 12:25pm |
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I've used this rubber in lesson 2 times. This's the first time at club.
I've not read any review above. Not tacky at all. Sponge is very soft. This rubber is very unlike traditional Chinese rubbers.Pushing over the table is a bit weak and I feel like I lost one main weapon of mine. Pushing/chopping with full swing is incredible. very heavy. The only rubber I've tried on par with this rubber is Fastarc S. Will post video later. Chopping is easy, ball is heavy but it's a bit slow. Attacking is easy and has good arc but lacks the kick when it bounce. Can produce good spin but not very spinny like Vega Asia can produce. Looping from mid distance and fishing is easy but again lacks the kick. Blocking - the sound from this rubber is awesome!!!! Will play with this rubber more on Monday. Video :
Edited by bogeyhunter - 03/04/2012 at 8:48pm |
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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bogeyhunter
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Posted: 03/04/2012 at 9:26pm |
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video added.
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 03/04/2012 at 10:49pm |
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Are you chopping with the rubber on your forehand? What is the rating of your opponent? Those chops look ridiculously heavy for him... |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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dingyibvs
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Posted: 03/04/2012 at 11:04pm |
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Those chops are heavy for anybody, you need to use your legs and time it well to loop them consistently, something I can't do yet
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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pnachtwey
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Posted: 03/04/2012 at 11:14pm |
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I agree, Bogey, wasn't "Looping Larry" available? "Looping Larry" would have been a good test with two 2000+ players.
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Imago
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Posted: 03/05/2012 at 2:11am |
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Sounds like SP. |
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PingPongHolic10
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Posted: 03/05/2012 at 10:32am |
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    Below is my initial review for the Tuttle Bejing 4 rubber. Thank you FastPaddle.com & Razortt!
First Impressions: Tuttle Bejing 4: Came in a nice package. Two sheets of sheet-protectors with the rubber(one sticky, one non-sticky). From the feel to the texture of the topsheet, it did resembles a lot like Focus 3 Snipe with the vanilla color sponge. Supple topsheet with super soft sponge. I think this is probably scaled as 36° in euro density. I put one layer of rubber cement on top of the tunning layer & one layer on my YEO jtta. Topsheet is barely tacky. Performing the spin test, it looks like it will take a euro stroke to get the spin from this rubber, which is digging it out from the sponge. Tackiness did not help in that aspect, and topsheet was not very grippy IMO. Weight is super light 55grams uncut, & ~42grams for an oversize cut. I was a bit sceptical at first because of the physical characteristics that reminded me a lot like Focus 3 snipe/Grip-S Training version(bad quality ones), they are not FH rubbers for my style. I’m used to hard medium tacky FH. TB IV in session: Start to warm up on flat hitting to get a feel of the rubber, very good feeling at very good speed. Fairly linear as slow hits are slow. Then transition to slow looping. It seems like the tackiness is non-existent as I have to hit thru the sponge to generate spin. It has a low arc, but low throw because of the soft sponge. This rubber has a click sound like tenergy. Moving to faster looping: very good speed, but my partner didn’t notice the spin he usually gets from my loops, but it was definitely faster. Then I moved further away to test out mid distance, the speed remains with same stroke strength: fast. Even tho I was looping hard, the sponge didn’t bottom out. The feeling is very good, but it’s missing the jump after it lands on the table. As a penholder, I always test on the pushes because that’s one of the most critical parts of my game. I have problem adapting to the non-tacky play of this rubber as I have to adjust my angle of the pushes to vary my spins. Blocking is pretty good, better than hard tacky rubbers as the ball stays in the sponge longer. From practicing, this rubber has more of a Euro style than Chinese. I think it suits me best on the backhand despite that B.Pace mentioned about hitting hard to get the best out of this rubber. Since the rubber is fast already, I can also control the pace from the linearity of the rubber. In Game Action: Looping: Not so easy performing opening loops against heavy underspin, probably because I have to adjust to engage into the sponge instead of relying solely on tackiness of topsheet. This requires a completely different stroke for me, but I will continue to test on my FH to see if I can reap the full potential out of this rubber. Fast looping is so much fun, countering is super easy! This rubber is not sensitive to spin, so I think that’s why countering loops is easy, I was able to counter some nasty loops when I’m in position. Loops are fast, but spin is still not as good. Pushes/Short Game: Pretty difficult in the short game department, mostly because of my style. I was not comfortable with this aspect yet as I am trying to adjust my technique. Medium grip plus softish topsheet didn’t really help. Blocking: This rubber blocks like a tensor, it offers very good feeling. Since the topsheet is soft, the ball gets to penetrate into the sponge whereas you get to control what’s going back to the other side of the table. It’s also very good at out of position blocks. But it doesn’t offer the variety of blocks that tacky rubber provides. Serving: It’s good at performing short serves. Again, requires a different technique for me. Fast deep serves are also very effective, but spin is still sore lacking=(. Overall: This rubber has a few misinterpreted characteristics. It’s a Euro style rubber. It plays like Donic JO Coppa/Desto F/Macro Pro/Era series, IMO. Topsheet is barely tacky, & not extremely grippy, so the strength of this rubber is on the sponge & tunning layer. For only $20, it’s better play than the above mentioned rubbers. I will probably have to move it to my BH on a new sheet to see if this baby will fit the bill. As for durability, it’s pretty good as the ball marks disappears after cleaning at the end of my few sessions. From my previous reviews/Ejing, I would rate TB IV against a similar group as follows: Speed: T64 ≥ TB IV = T05 = JO Coppa (gold/plat) = Desto F = Narucross GS > Moon > Mars V2 ≥ Focus3 Snipe Spin: T05 > T64 ≥ JO Coppa (gold/plat) > Mars V2 > Moon ≥ Narucross GS > TB IV > Focus3 Snipe > Desto F Control: TB IV > T64 ≥ JO Coppa (gold/plat) > Narucross GS ≥ Moon ≥ T05 = Focus3 = Snipe Desto F = Mars V2 In conclusion I will rate TB IV (Black w/ Vanilla Sponge) as follows: Speed: 9.3 out of 10 Spin: 8.0 out of 10 Control: 8.5 out of 10 Sponge hardness: Very Soft Top Sheet: Barely Tacky Category: OFF to OFF+ Edited by PingPongHolic10 - 03/05/2012 at 12:04pm |
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bogeyhunter
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Joined: 02/22/2006 Location: Jacksonville, F Status: Offline Points: 1245 |
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Posted: 03/05/2012 at 12:13pm |
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Yes. it's on my FH. My practice partner is 1900+. I beat him in tournament 3-1 last week but that one game he won was 11-0!!!!!
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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bogeyhunter
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Posted: 03/05/2012 at 12:16pm |
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He tried it for 5 minutes and just said Xiom Vega Pro and Asia have more power on mid distance looping. and more kicksssssssss.
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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pnachtwey
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Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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Posted: 03/05/2012 at 1:06pm |
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Yes, but I think it is unfair to compare a $18 rubber that is meant for the mass market to something that costs much more. Comparing to T05 wouldn't be fair if one just wants speed and spin. What I was referring to was that you play "Looping Larry" with the Beijing IV because he would do better getting back your chops and you can also show a few blocked blocked loops. We enjoyed the games on your YouTube channel. |
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pnachtwey
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Posted: 03/06/2012 at 12:13am |
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Bogeyhunter has posted videos of a games playing against "Looping Larry" while using Beijing IV. They are good I still can't get the videos to embed. I have the URL between the two {TUBE} tags but the video doesn't show. Edited by pnachtwey - 03/06/2012 at 12:40pm |
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nathanso
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Posted: 03/06/2012 at 1:55am |
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I tested TB4 2.15 black on my robot this evening. Blade was a BBC Blue Streak which is a 6-ply Balsa-carbon OFF blade which is stiff and soft. 152g total fighting weight.
TB4's topsheet is very pliable which when coupled with this rubber's soft sponge makes the rubber feel almost gelatinous.. except when you flat-hit with any amount of power and the magic CLICK! occurs and the ball positively rockets. Faster than my Tenergy 25 in this department, and the TB4 is much more forgiving thanks to its strong sink. On more conventional topspin drive and loop strokes, TB4's low throw and flat arc forced me to brush/lift the ball more than T25 which kept me out of TB4's CLICK zone, and therefore speeds were slower. I can't loop fast enough to make TB4 click but I'm sure there are better players who could. TB4 has loads of control and is thus very easy to play with despite its low throw. Compared to a rubber like Hurricane II which is also low throw but not what I'd call user-friendly. Short spinny serves with TB4 were quite easy to do. While I didn't try them against a live opponent yet, the amount of curve on my short side and side/back serves was up there with the best inverted rubbers I've tested (TG2, TA3). Keeping the ball low and short, however, was easier with TB4. I'll be able to test against a live opponent later this week but I suspect Tuttle has hit a home run with this one.. kind of like the original Gambler Outlaw when it first hit the market. |
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BBC, SP, LP
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bogeyhunter
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Posted: 03/06/2012 at 3:00am |
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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PingPongHolic10
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Posted: 03/06/2012 at 9:23am |
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After a long practice session yesterday with a 2100 & 2300 player, this rubber is fast! (confirmed by both) but it's still missing the kick from the topsheet which is causing the lack of bite (spin). I would say this rubber is suitable for non-spin oriented/blockers/smash players for FH. Will continue to test on FH & purchased another sheet for BH review.
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zzz
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Posted: 03/06/2012 at 12:20pm |
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You may not put the complete url between the tags. Only the string which specifies the video. It's the string after the "v=" and before the "&feature". In your case it is homtg5rVZKQ. Looks like this: [CODE]-tags aren't working here, still showing the video. You can quote my post to see the correct syntax (without answering). |
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Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V
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pnachtwey
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Posted: 03/06/2012 at 12:41pm |
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@zzz, thanks. You can see I got it......finally.
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richrf wrote: